Help Please, What Aircraft Do We Need?

[manstonman]

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this but here goes anywaY. . .
I have been looking at the possibility of starting an air-taxi company operating out of small airfields close to popular UK destinations, the aircraft would need to be at least a 15 seater and capable of landing on grass. Any suggestions as to what we could use?
Many thanks
Bob

[big.al]

The true answer depends massively upon your mission profile; range, payload, STOL capability, pressurised/non-pressurised, single or two pilot ops, etc etc.

But you could start by thinking about something like a Twin Otter. Typically 20 seats, can land and take off from almost anything, anywhere.

How about http://www.twinotter.com/ as a starting point?

Another option may be a BN Islander/Trislander (Islander typically 10 seats, Trislander around 18). http://www.britten-norman.com One of the flying mags (Pilot I think?) had an article just last month on the Islander.

I gather the Twotter and Islander types are rugged as hell and very capable on short fields, but they're not exactly hot ships with enormous range...

[manstonman]

Many thanks for the reply. It would need to be single pilot op, range about 1,000 miles, capable of STOL and non-pressurized. Obviously, it's early days for us and we will be getting some expert advice on the whole thing but I was intrigued to find out what kind of aircraft we might end up with.
Thanks again and if anybody else has any suggestions . . . . :ok:

[gabon flyer 2]

Dornier 228
Casa 212
Twin Otter
Piper Navajo
queen Air

[BizJetJockey]

Embraer Bandeirante if you can find one that works and a pilot that will fly it. Good workhorse and a solid aircraft. 21 seats i think and a range of 1060 nm. Good luck with the operation...always good to hear about enthusiastic new companies.

[PicMas]

I know of a Bandeirante, and the pilot(s) to fly it too.

[blablablafly]

No aircraft is suitable!:=

Just go out and wet lease an 15 seater for 6 months to see if your business model is viable. After 6 months start looking at your own aircraft :8

[LGW Vulture]

Don't take this as an insult but if you're asking that kind of question, you probably shouldn't be doing it! :ugh:

[manstonman]

To be honest I was expecting more postings like the one above so was pleasantly surprised and thanks for the help :ok: We will be seeking advice before we embark on this but need a bit of background before we get going.

[PicMas]

No harm done asking questions.

"Ask a stupid question and you are stupid for five minutes, don't ask and you are stupid your whole life"

[LGW Vulture]

.......We will be seeking advice before we embark on this..........

Glad to hear it! ;)

[helldog]

Have a look at the F406. She is a 13 paxer max but can land on grass no probs. Make sure you look after the nosewheel though, you dont want to be doing tight turns under power on boggy ground. About 230knots TAS and massive range. A top aircraft. You might fall a bit short on the seats but you can have greater frequency because of the speed. Good luck with setting up your operation.:ok:

[Rosbif]

Go Titan 404 or twin Caravan (404 with PT6`s). Even my landings look good in them.! Just my 2 cents.

[HireTheBetter]

I agree with most of these options for your ideaand have flown quite a few of them myself too.

The E110 Bandeirante is a gret aircraft, rugged, easy to fly and can handle rough strips and is quite good with short field performance, HOWEVER, as mentioned above, you will most definately NOT get 1060nm range with 21 pax. The ones i used to fly were configured with 15 pax seats, single seating with an aisle in teh middle and a row of 3 at teh rear, large cargo area with a massive top hinged door to access it also. With 15 pax and baggage and 2 pilots, using standard weights, i could only carry enough fuel for about 130-150nm. so they are some what limited with range when u fill them up, so although a great option you will be needing fuel stops on most of your turn arounds.

The Cessna 404 Tiatan is the best twin engine single pilot piston i have flown (havent flown them all of course ;)) and is a great option for up to 9-11 pax. They can carry up to around 1100kg payload with an hours fuel plus reserves. Great for freight also as they have a double rear access door for larger items and a pilot/crew access door at the front.

Twin otters, i have not flown, but get a great rap from anyone that has flown them, cheaper to operate than a E110 too but also slower so lose out on the sector times which ultimately adds flight hours and of course cost.

I think one of the most cost effective aircraft for this tho, would possibly be the Cessna 208 Grand Caravan. SIngle engine turbine, single pilot approved, reliable, comfortable and relativaly cheap and can carry up to about 14-15 pax. Only downfall is its only Single Engine.....!:eek:

And all this considering that you will be looking at second hand aircraft too. And that in itself begins to be a problem as all these aircraft types are getting older now and have high hours because they make money and all get utilised throughout there lifes and can start to look and fly a bit poorly with age. The maintenance costs also start to increase.

So my advice to you is, do ALOT of research, go and look at all these aircraft, fly in them and make sure to find a good one or 2 or 5 that suit your needs in the best condition you can find with great maintenance records.

All the Best :ok:

HTB

[PicMas]

Some great advise in above post. I TOTALLY agree on the merits of the 404, used to fly one in the Caribbean- awesome workhorse.

I doubt the C208 Caravan will be a possible option, as it is single-engine I don't think you can get it on an AOC for pax-flying.

[Dont worry]

Anybody thought about a Beech 1900 C or D Model.
Some nice ones available

[manstonman]

Thanks again for all the help, I have researched each of your excellent suggestions today but, because of the length of the runways at a couple of destinations we have earmarked, the Twotter is looking the better bet because of its STOL capabilities. Getting hold of a decent one however might prove to be a bit of a problem though, unless of course . . . . . :)

[BizJetJockey]

Picmas which Bandit do you know of? I know of one but not sure if she'll ever fly again!:{:sad:

[big.al]

Getting hold of a decent one however might prove to be a bit of a problem though

Seem to be plenty around if you Google 'Twin Otter for Sale' - perhaps not in the UK though.

I found this, which may be a starting point.

http://www.aircraftinvestmentgroup.com/twin_otter_aircraft.htm

Good luck!

[African Drunk]

Twin Otter is a great plane. There is a place in North Carolina, I think Louisberg. The guy there had 4/5 in 2003 they were always up for sale at the right price. I believe he owns the skydive centre.

[Toxic Thrust]

It's short take off and short landing capability made this business jet a world-wide phenomenon. The Twin Otter Aircraft is still highly sought after to this day:D

That advertisement did make me laugh, never heard anyone refer to them as a business jet they could get done on the description.:):):)

Flew in a lot of Twotters years ago and they carry a great load. A bit slow though other than for specialised jobs such as para dropping and island hopping:ok:

[powerstall]

you could check out the Cessna Caravan and the Pilatus PC-12... single engine turbines... :ok:

[greenslopes]

Flew both these types in the bush. Twotter very capable but also slow with minimul footprint from the tractor tyres. DO228 also purely belter,however with high Psi tyres will need no worse than crushed gravel else she will cut into the surface and render an airstrip U/S in no time at all. DO 228 will beat the bandit in the cruise however the descent is where the bandit can claw a few miles back(Vmo dependant on the main bearing load on the tailplane & hence the reason for the low Vmo in comparison to say the bandit).
Hope this helps
Ooroo

[Baron Von Mildred]

Just a thought, doesn't AOC stuff have to be done into licenced airfields in UK?

[Flintstone]

minimul

Is that some kind of very, very small donkey? :E

[greenslopes]

Yeh O.K, minimal!, but why donkey?

[Flintstone]

Mule..........donkey................ Sorry, in my little world it seemed funny :(

[greenslopes]

Eeorr...............EEoorrr..................EEoorrrways calls me that!:}

[SpeedbirdXK8]

LET 410 is worth considering. Proven STOL and grass operation. Many configuration options which includes quick conversion to cargo for extra income. Good headroom and looks and feels like a 'real' aircraft to the punters. Not the fastest but has good range and is a solid aircraft. Have done a fair amount of research myself and can put you in touch with knowledgeable people on the LET410 (UK based) who can also help set-up the AOC. Send me a PM is you wish.

[manstonman]

Just a thought, doesn't AOC stuff have to be done into licenced airfields in UK?
Yes, but according to the CAA: Each proposed unlicensed aerodrome
would have to be judged on a safety case and a decision made as to
whether an exemption could be justified.
Thanks for all the help everyone's given us on this, we're currently ploughing through a mountain of paperwork, clarifications and queries.

[Cub Driver]

A good used Cessna 208 (leased) would be your best choice. An even better idea would be to give me half your money and you keep the other half. In this economy you are going to go broke. Sorry to tell you this.

[Aero Mad]

Sorry to reopen an old thread but I don't think the CAA are too big on single engined pax operations? I may be wrong... but do please consider the Trislander. There are several second hand versions available (contact Blue Islands in the Channel Islands who I am sure would oblige and sell you G-LCOC/G-BEDP for a stupidly small price). It is a 16 seater and can easily operate from grass.