RAAF offer $30,000 to retain Pilots

[Thobe Gutra]

The RAAF has just sent a letter directed at ozzie QFIs, Training Captains, QWIs etc, offering $30,000 to retain, (or re-gain for those that have already left), their expertise (incidentally, they would welcome Brits if you want to move down under).

Anecdotal evidence has it that the British RAF is losing a great many experienced pilots to the civilian sector. Are there any financial steps being taken by the UK Govt to retain experienced RAF pilots? - the 2% public sector pay rise is not much to look forward to.

[BEagle]

Is that $30K Oz per annum? Or a one-off bribe?

$30K Oz works out at around £13500. If it's a one-off, I can't see it doing much to retain highly experienced RAF aircrew who would otherwise be off to the airlines.....:rolleyes:

[Thobe Gutra]

It is a one off..... (the network I know say it is not enough in the current recruitment climate -they are dismissing it for better pay and conditions 'outside'). The Oz and UK Govts need to make attractive offers to retain their experts before its too late - (having made the jump, and once established outside, few want the upheaval of a return to the Military)

[BEagle]

I reckon there's a zero missing!

Perhaps $300K Oz might attract some - but $30K? I guess they'll just, as you say, give that the flick?

[Arm out the window]

30 k is correct, and I believe it's for a 1 year committment.
Not a very effective measure by all accounts.
For more info on the RAAF situation, for anyone considering a move, there's a long thread on D&G Questions called 'RAAF Pilots Leaving' or similar that has quite a bit of info and discussion, not to mention argument.

[bigdog1971]

It’s not just the RAAF. It is being offered to the Army QFI's as well. $30,000 for 12 months return, not available if you are already serving a ROSO (return of service obligation) for another course. ie; QFI cse incurs a 2 year ROSO.
However it is available if you are serving out an MSBS ROSO. ie: have taken the 15 year retention benefit, which incurs a 5 year ROSO for 1 years pay.
For an Army Pilot I think it is about right, 30K on top of a mid level QFI's wage, around 110K would bring you right into the offshore CAPT wage area. However you will continue to work for the full 12 months with the Army not for only 5 months of the year:hmm:

This is only a 1 off offer until the wage and retention case goes fwd later this year to address the issue of the experience shortage.

[ftrplt]

not available if you are already serving a ROSO (return of service obligation) for another course.

Wrong. You are only ineligible if you still have PILOTS course ROSO. Any post-graduate ROSO is served concurrently.

By the way, its taxed as income so it equates to approx 16000 AUD in the hand.

[detgnome]

RAF are offering £100k to Sqn Ldr pilots (£50k for navs) for a 5 year return of service post 38/16 point.

[bigdog1971]

fltplt,

If you want to pedantic about what is in the offer then here is the "exact" wording WRT ROSO;

B. PILOTS CURRENTLY SUBJECT TO A PILOT TRAINING, QFI OR TP RETURN OF SERVICE OBLIGATION (ROSO) AS AT 1 FEB 08 ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE BONUS.
C. PILOTS SUBJECT TO OTHER NON-PILOT TRAINING ROSO (EG, MSBS) WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR THIS RETENTION BONUS.
D. ARMY PILOTS MUST BE UNDERTAKING QFI OR TP DUTIES DURING THE ELIGIBILITY PERIOD OF THE SCHEME.

Now the above quotes are out of the ARMY offer, I have not seen an offer for the RAAF so they may be under different conditions.
Why wouldnt they be they are for everything else.:ouch:

[ftrplt]

Yep, ya right Bigdog.

RAAF offer only excludes for pilots course ROSO.

[bigdog1971]

Pass-a-Frozo,

what you suggest could be true. However have you considered the complications of calculating who may be leaving soon and still be able to take the Bonus?
for example, this bonus is aimed at the senior QFI's in the SQN's, who would all have in excess of 70 days annual leave in their leave books (because they are the only QFI's in the SQN and picking up all the jobs, due to the other QFI's taking civil employment(cyclic argument)) and most likely have around 3-5 months long service.
I for example could take the bonus today and put in a leave app 2 months from now to walk out the door for the remaining period of my retention time (10 months). I thnk that long service counts towards ROSO time.

I for one welcome the Blood Money, it will keep me and others interested for long enough to see what comes from the pay case. When the pay case comes in I reckon that will be about the time that NVG experiance will be a step into most employers door once they all get NVD operations approval.

[propfails2FX]

Bigdog,

Confirm a 2 year ROSO for RAAF QFI training?

Cheers,

Fails2FX

[bigdog1971]

Im not sure about RAAF QFI Trg ROSO.

But Army is 2 years ROSO post graduation from QFI Course.

[Silent T]

No ROSO for RAAF QFI training

[rapiddescent]

Big dog,

Don't hold your breath over the 'pay review' mate. It gets submitted late this year (November I think) and by the time cabinet and the 'head shed' make a decision, it will all be too late in the coming.

Get out whilst you can instead of hanging in for small fry (30K)

Airlines recruiting massively as we speak.

[eagle 86]

Krudd has just frozen pollies pay for 18 mths so what chance of defence pay rises?
GAGS
E86

[Cap'n Bunghole]

Krudd has just frozen pollies pay for 18 mths so what chance of defence pay rises?

Plenty, I don't see a shortage of politicians. Even if there was one, would anybody care? :E

[bigdog1971]

Big dog,

Don't hold your breath over the 'pay review' mate. It gets submitted late this year (November I think) and by the time cabinet and the 'head shed' make a decision, it will all be too late in the coming.

Get out whilst you can instead of hanging in for small fry (30K)

Airlines recruiting massively as we speak.

Mate your most likely correct on that timeline.
Ironically I have had some job offers in the last couple of weeks, to which I have turned down. I’m not ready to calm down for the Straight and Level lifestyle that civil sector offers. Right now that would bore the crap out of me, but each to their own and maybe sometime in the distant future I will "see the light" and leave for greener pastures.

Right now I love the Army and love the confusion of never knowing where I might be next week. For me $30K is just icing on the cake, but hell I’m going to reach out and grab it with both hands. However, I know that won’t be enough to keep many of my colleagues.

[Cap'n Bunghole]

For me $30K is just icing on the cake, but hell I’m going to reach out and grab it with both hands. However, I know that won’t be enough to keep many of my colleagues.

And there you have it.

The bonus targets people that were going to stay in anyway. Good luck to you Bigdog, I would do the same in your position.

For those that aren't eligible, the way this bonus was implimented may have made your decision to leave that little bit easier.

You there Shep??? :ugh:

[oldpinger]

Oddl enough I've had a couple of calls from guys who left the military to join various airlines and are tryingto get back in or at least do some reserve time. Grass as usual not as verdant on the other side I suppose.
Interestingly enough not a squeek from Navy about a $30k bonus... maybe everyone is happy:hmm:

[Torquer]

Firstly, the Navy already run a retention bonus scheme. PACMAN Ch 3 Pt 5 Div 15 outlines the conditions that are required for payment of a completion bonus. As far as calculation of retention bonuses is done, firstly a case for retention of a particular trade has to be made. In this case, a number of factors would have been considered to initiate this business case. Capability effect, position vacancy rates, time for training etc are all taken into account. One of the issues with the process is that it is reactive. It is too hard to get in front of the game when admin action gets taken after the problem arises.

The ADF Aircrew case at the end of 2008 will primarily focus on the new category of Air Combat Officer (RAAF) with a review of Flying Allowance at the same time. The date of effect is when the determination is signed. Only federal politicians wages are under "freeze". The ADF has pay cases conducted under a Workplace Remuneration Agreement decided by the DFRT, an industrial relations commission with the same powers as a Federal Court. The can not be influenced by the political process. What gets decided is done through a court process, with two parties, advocates and a case to argue. The Commonwealth is represented by DEWR, whilst the ADF argument is provided by DMSA-P. Most cases are presented for ratification by the DFRT as 'agreed' cases, that is, the Commonwealth does not oppose the work value case presented by the ADF.

[griffinblack]

As reported in the March edition of Australian Aviation. “The RAAF lost more than twice the number of pilots at FLTLT and SQNLDR level than the two previous years combined.”

And….”I want to demonstrate my commitment to you and ask you to ‘hold the faith’ while we develop the aircrew pay case throughout 2008” – CAF.

As an aside, reading the article, if the Air Combat Officer (ACO) was such a critical component of breaking down the hierarchic process, why not roll pilots into the ACO stream?

[Naked_recommiting]

griffinblack wrote:

'As an aside, reading the article, if the Air Combat Officer (ACO) was such a critical component of breaking down the hierarchic process, why not roll pilots into the ACO stream?'

!!! HAHAHA :ok:

They could graduate from SAW(A).
The School of Air Warfare (Aptitude division).

[Captain Sand Dune]

Spot on, Bunghole and Big Dog.

As recently as late last year Flick was on record as saying there was no pilot retention problem in the RAAF.
I have a sneaking suspicion that someone sat him down and explained in words of one syllable what was actually occurring at the coal face so far away from Canberra.
This retention bonus is exactly the same as all those that have preceded it; an unimaginative and token solution to a well known problem.
Flick is attempting to be seen to be doing something, and hoping like hell the pollies (or Heaven forbid, the media) don’t scratch below the surface.
Speaking of the media where’s a troll when you need one?!

[Captain Sand Dune]

Spot on, Bunghole and Big Dog.

As recently as late last year Flick was on record as saying there was no pilot retention problem in the RAAF.
I have a sneaking suspicion that someone sat him down and explained in words of one syllable what was actually occurring at the coal face so far away from Canberra.
This retention bonus is exactly the same as all those that have preceded it; an unimaginative and token solution to a well known problem.
Flick is attempting to be seen to be doing something, and hoping like hell the pollies (or Heaven forbid, the media) don’t scratch below the surface before he gets out.
Speaking of the media where’s a troll when you need one?!:E

[rapiddescent]

Sounds like you have a good plan bigdog. Hats off.

Where is shep when we need him!!

[bumpydays]

Surveillance Australia are offering a very competitive package

CAPT Base of $100K plus retention benefit over the nex 3 years of $200K broken down to Yr 1 $50K Yr 2 $50K and Yr 3 $100K (On top of base salary).

F/O $60K base and $120K retention over 3 years $30K/$30K/$60K

Saw this info on Friday just gone in the Australian

Few flying jobs offer hands on low level flying as part of a close knit small crew environment in a
role of national importance. Combined with job security, lifestyle, competitive salaries, a range of
employment and working options and carrying out a task that makes a real difference.
Surveillance Australia’s fleet of highly modified Dash 8 aircraft are the front line of border
protection for Australia. Using leading edge surveillance technology we detect illegal activities
and national security threats under long term contract to the Australian Customs Service.
If you seek real training and fast merit based promotion as part of a highly professional team
supporting our country’s national security, Surveillance Australia wants to talk to you.
We will be recruiting throughout 2008. To show how this career could be your next big step,
Surveillance Australia will hold information sessions for prospective pilots in:
• Perth –
Monday 25th February 2008
• Melbourne – Tuesday 26th February 2008
• Sydney – Wednesday 27th February 2008
• Brisbane – Thursday 28th February 2008
• Toowoomba – Friday 29th February 2008
• Adelaide – Monday 3rd March 2008
• Townsville – Wednesday 5th March 2008
• Cairns – Thursday 6th 2008
• Darwin – Friday 7th March 2008
Full details of session times and locations are available from
www.surveillanceaustralia.com.au/pilots
Alternatively you can contact Jaya on 08 8154 5600
or email: [email protected]

[bumpydays]

Check out Surveillance Australia offer under D&G.

Search "Surveillance Australia"

[Naked_recommiting]

Did I hear correctly the 'here's $30K to wait for the pay review end 2008' became, 'here's $30K till sometime in 2009'?

Who taught a carrot to fly a lateral extension?