BA712 BOAC B707 Crash Heathrow 1968

[airsmiles]

I see from Amazon that a new book is being published in April about this crash. There's a pre-publication discount if anyone's interested.

On the subject of that crash, BA712 was going to Zurich but was that the final destination? I've also seen other BOAC pictures of aircraft at other european airports like Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Rome. Wouldn't BEA have served these destinations as well?

airsmiles

[D120A]

Yes, BEA would have been there too, but the small number of passengers wanting to fly long-haul made it necessary for BOAC to fly its long routes in short hops, in order to fill its aircraft. Thus, in 1964 on a BOAC 707 to Hong Kong we went via Frankfurt, Rome, Beirut, Bahrein, New Delhi and Bangkok. I don't suppose more than ten of us flew the whole route (which went on to Tokyo), but the aircraft was 90% full on each sector.

[Warmtoast]

It was en-route to Sydney.

Article and photo of the engine falling away from the wing here; http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-boac712.shtml

[PLovett]

T'was that the crash where the crew did a mighty effort to get the thing back on the ground (x-wind landing?) but had neglected to pull the fire handles?

I think that was also the crash where one of the flight attendants lost her life trying to save a passenger whose seat belt had jammed. What price a knife to have cut the strap?





If I had read the link above first I could have answered my own question.:ugh:

[Groundloop]

Just to be pedantic but can you actually classify it as a "crash"? Accident yes, but crash? Aircraft was landed on the runway and brought to a halt before being burnt-out in the continuing fire.

[WHBM]

My aunt was living to the north of Chertsey at the time and saw the aircraft on fire turning over their house.

She did not see the engine fall away but it was described to me that it fell into a flooded gravel pit about a mile from their house, in the area of Thorpe Park and the M25/M3 junction nowadays.

[The SSK]

BOAC's European stations were Rome, Frankfurt and Zurich, as calls on their African and Eastern services. In the late 60s, each of the three had at least one service a day (with maybe the odd exception) but at odd times. Passenger loads for these sectors rarely exceeded a dozen although it was a highly pleasurable way to fly shorthaul, especially if you got an upgrade to F/C :)

[Wod]

A piece of trivia.

In Sydney, months after the crash, I received a letter from the British Postal authorities enclosing a "postal article from BA712", with an apology for the water damage.

Wish I'd kept it now.

[airsmiles]

Yes, you're correct in that I shouldn't have referred to it as a crash.

The routings are certainly different today than yester-year! These days it's mostly point to point services. Does anyone have a sample timetable for a LHR-Sydney routing then? I wondering about night-stops and crew scheduling.

Thanks for the replies.

airsmiles

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Even some long-haul flights with BA in the 1970s went via European stations. For example, I have a log of flying from Heathrow to Nairobi in October 1977 via Frankfurt on a BA 747-200.

[renfrew]

The full routing for BA712 was London/Zurich/Tel Aviv/Teheran/Bombay/Singapore/Perth/Sydney

[The SSK]

As a junior planner in BA's Eastern Routes division in the early 1970s I was tasked with developing a 'passenger preference model' based on the loads on 6- 5- and 4- stop routings by day of the week. My mathematical hokum impressed the managers but I didn't believe a word of it, with just (max) one flight a day on any given route, you took what you were offered. And Thursday was the busiest day because the fares were higher on Fri-Sat-Sun (surprise).

[beamender99]

She did not see the engine fall away but it was described to me that it fell into a flooded gravel pit about a mile from their house, in the area of Thorpe Park and the M25/M3 junction nowadays.


I recall a member of the public being quoted that the pilot was fantastic, he jettisoned the engine so that it fell into the gravel pit and avoided the populated area.

On that day I was based in a building a few feet from the peri track under 28R approach.
A VC10 did a very late aborted landing over us and we ran out to see it but were then confronted with the scene of the 707 on fire.
A very sad day.

[pax britanica]

Sitting on my front wall in Stanwell that fine sunny evening my friend and I heard a young lad shout-look that planes on fire. Seeing the 707 oddly inbound to 23 ( they were taking off behind me on 28L we thought it was the evening sun on the bare metal below the cheat line. Moments later we realised it was plane on fire and on fire in a big way.

A very very very frightening sight as the plane sank below some rooflines because we knew what had to follow from all the films we had seen and sure enough what seemed like moments but was probably 2 minutes later a horrible soft 'boooom' and an immense black mushroom cloud. We thought everyone must have died and were very surprised when we found out what had happened and the loss of life was so small but so sad with the loss of the brave cabin crew who waited too long to try and save an elderly passanger.

A very very sobering experience and a sight I hope I never see again -40 years ago and I can remember every single detail of its passage through our field of view

[skippyscage]

oh I have a slide of the photo in the link that I acquired as a kid - I always assumed it was a training exercise or something.

If anyone wants me to scan it, let me know and I'll post it - I'd love to know who the photographer was also.

[Liffy 1M]

There are several photos on the airliners website and depicting the 707 after the fire:

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=G-ARWE&distinct_entry=true

[Midland 331]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15467114@N07/1717757429/

[Skylion]

The Stewardess who died was Barbara Jane Harrison, who was awarded a posthumous GC. She could have escaped through the nearby rear passenger door but persisted with her efforts to free to elderly passenger(s). This was real heroism.She is buried in Fulford Cemetry, York.
It was amazing , and a great tribute to the cabin crew's rapid and calm evacuation that the loss of life was not greater. Within a minute or so of the aircraft coming to a halt there was a massive column of acrid black smoke rising from the centre of fuselage , leaving just the area from the forward door to the tip of the nose, and the tail from just forward of the rear door clear.
The intact nose section was later sold to TWA who grafted it onto the front of N776TW, one of the 3 hijacks to Dawsons Field where it had its own forward section blown up.
G-ARWE had an unfortunate career as it had only returned to flying the previous January after substantial and lengthy rebuilding in Honolulu after an incident there. So good was this work that it flew back to London as a scheduled passenger BA 911 ex Honolulu to Tokyo and on to London via Hong Kong and the usual 3 , 4 or 5 stops thereafter. The outbound trip to San Francisco via the same routing had been cancelled to accomodate it. BOAC were, despite its image, very cost conscious and nimble on their feet when opportunities to save money came into sight.

[rog747]

sylion
i didnt know the fwd fuselage of 'we' was used later on a TWA a/c which then was the dawsons field a/c...
'we' was built for eagle but i cant remember if both her and 'wd' appeared in eagle colours, very interesting, thanks

I was with my mum and dad seeing off my sister on a british eagle 1-11 to venice and we saw the 707 just after landing on rwy 05 which was a very odd runway on the day (we realised later it had returned quickly to 05 after a few mins flt)

it was ghastly and i was 11

unbelievably but in the same year its true I was going on holiday with my mum and dad on british eagle to spain and we were also at LHR when BKS ambassador crashed into the new britannic/terminal one building at LHR slicing off the tails of some tridents,
we were in the terminal 2 (called the europa building then) we didnt see it,
only saw the tridents in bits...

the previous year in 1967 the same weekend we were flying in june on british eagle to rimini (everyone went on holiday on them!) a BMA argonaut crashed at stockport and the evening before an airferry dc4 crashed in france,
erm if i said my mum was very nervous flyer after then would be an understatement!

i joined BMA 77-85 at LHR

[KeMac]

The George Cross awarded to Barbara Harrison was on display at the BA Museum. I assume it still is as they had bought it from her family.

[pelagic]

"She did not see the engine fall away but it was described to me that it fell into a flooded gravel pit about a mile from their house, in the area of Thorpe Park and the M25/M3 junction nowadays"

If I remember correctly, it was known as Marco's Pit (or DeMarco's), and it is located to the east of Chertsey Lane, close to the main entrance to Thorpe Park. The pit is still there, used as a fishing lake, and a bit of a "sh*thole", according to a recent description I've received!

[xyzzy]

My father had cause to visit the BA museum near LHR last year, and in passing heard a rather touching story. The museum has a display about Barbara Harrison (including, I think Dad said, the GC itself). Every year, on the anniversary of the accident, a guy turns up and leaves flowers.

[beamender99]

In its history, the GC has been awarded directly to only four women, three of them in WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jane_Harrison

[MungoP]

rog747...

If you're planning any trips this year maybe you could post the details here in advance ? :}

[rog747]

i'm not that fated lol

the OP said a new book was coming out on this
may i have the details please

[Bigt]

The front of the aircraft was sold to TWA for the repair of N776TW which was damaged at Damascus by genades. N8715T was destroyed by fire at Dawsons Field

[airsmiles]

They re-registered N776TW as N28714, presumably to avoid drawing attention to the fact it was rebuilt from two damaged aircraft!

[airsmiles]

Here's a link to Amazon for the book. It's called "Fire over Heathrow - The Tragedy of Flight 712".


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fire-Over-Heathrow-Tragedy-Flight/dp/1844157393/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202339531&sr=1-3


airsmiles

[rog747]

thanks for that
i will get one

[airsmiles]

I received my copy of the BA712 accident book today and have nearly finished it.

I didn't appreciate that BOAC had a very similar incident in Honolulu prior to the Heathrow accident. They certainly seemed to have some engine problems with those Conways at the time. Also, the Heathrow fire service were woefully under equipped and co-ordination between the various emergency services was very poor. The book certainly gave me a new insight into that accident.

airsmiles

[T-21]

Next month Aeroplane Monthly magazine are publishing an article on the accident.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Seeing the 707 oddly inbound to 23 >>

It landed on 05R.

[A and C]

Shortly after the BA712 accident BOAC had another RR Conway "let go" this time it was during a maintenance ground run, the engineers had to make adjustments to an outbd engine and so had to run the engine on the other side to balance.

It must have been a bit of a shock when the "good" engine LP Turbine exploded! fortunatly no one was hurt and the aircraft had a new outer wing section grafted on.

[Speedbird48]

A&C,

The aircraft that had the turbine disc come adrift while ground running was a long time after the BA712 accident.

It was G-APFP and the engineers were running an engine that they had fixed, and had the opposite side one running as a comparison. The one being used for the comparison shed it compressor disc that cut into the wing and a huge fuel fire ensued.

The airplane was repaired using a wing from a retired TWA aircraft, and flew again for a few years before being sold to Boeing for $1 and then flown to Philadelphia where it was put in front of the Franklin Institute for many years before being scrapped to make way for a car park!!

The wing repair was a very intricate one, and a credit to those that did it as it flew just as well as the others in the fleet afterwards.

Speedbird 48.

[411A]

'Exploding' Conways aside, the engine was quite unique, and provided a needed boost to the early straight-pipe 707 intercontinental designs where, if one was heavy, up close and personal with the far end of the runway was a usual occurance.
Got your attention real quick...:ooh::ooh:

[straightfeed]

It was practice to run an opposite engine on the -436's during a ground run so that the enormous strain on the nose gear was relieved.Never used as comparison,just to stop ripping off a nose tyre or damaging the gear mountings etc.
It was 'FP and part of a TWA wing was grafted on and plates added "wedding cake " style externally.
The Conway was a very good engine for its time although a little thirsty over the fans.
Straightfeed

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

The 707-436 came to be known, unkindly, as 'The Old Banger' contrasting with the much newer JT3D-3 powered -336s which were then beginning to arrive in some numbers. What a good aircraft that was. The initial three came as freighters, but with a complete set of passenger cabin windows. Hmm ... :)

The VC10, incidentally, was christened 'The Iron Duck' because from certain angles in flight, it kind of looked like one.

[WHBM]

I am just reminded, and it's probably in the book, that one of the factors behind the rapid evacuation was there was a complete relief crew, in uniform, on board deadheading out to Zurich to bring another BOAC aircraft back, and who obviously doubled up the crew able to assist.

JT3D-3 powered -336s ....... the initial three came as freighters, but with a complete set of passenger cabin windows. Hmm ...
The cargo door 707320C became the default aircraft model, with windows giving a fully convertible aircraft. Many went to cargo use in later years. It was a fraction more costly due to the extra weight and purchase price of the door, but for passenger airlines in the US there was a subsidy paid by the US government to airlines who committed their fleets to possible emergency use by the military, for which the cargo door was required. This standard configuration spread out across other carriers as well, and in the end was justified in the final secondhand price, as by the late 1970s cargo-or-passenger 707s were still in demand whereas passenger-only ones became unsaleable.

Some airlines left the windows in, others installed quite-obvious plugs (which may just have been covers), and others did a proper job with plugs fully painted over.

[beamender99]

Some Bradford Telegraph and Argus item about the book.
http://tinyurl.com/6gwu57

BBC TV covered the event yesterday but no video is available on line.

[beamender99]

Apr 9 2008 (http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2008/04/09/) By Birmingham Mail Reporter
http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/birmmail/apr2008/9/3/3214D435-F5BE-B790-837A0B1DAB2E0940.jpg
A FORMER flight attendant who helped save the lives of scores of passengers when a plane crashed at Heathrow has told her story in a book to coincide with the 40th anniversary of the tragedy.
Rosalind Chatterley's dedication and quick-thinking was recognised across the globe after she found herself a member of the cabin crew of BOAC flight 712, known as "Whisky Echo", destined for Sydney via Zurich.
Moments after take off, the engines caught fire and the plane turned back to Heathrow.
Five people, including stewardess Barbara Harrison, died in an explosion after it landed. Ms Harrison was posthumously awarded the George Cross – the first woman to receive it during peace time.
Mrs Chatterley’s experience has been recorded in a book, Fire Over Heathrow: The Tragedy of Flight 712 by Susan Ottaway, published to coincide with the 40th anniversary of the disaster.
Today, speaking from her home in Solihull, she described the action she took with first steward Andrew McCarthy and chief steward Neville Davies-Gordon as the drama unfolded.
Mrs Chatterley, whose only injury was a slight burn on the arm, said: "Just about a minute into the flight, there was a loud bang. Andy and I looked at one another and together said, ’What’s that?’
"Touchdown went smoothly. We made a slight turn to port, shuddered and stopped. After no more than three-and-a-half to four minutes after take off, we were back on the ground."
Describing the moments after the aircraft landed, she recalled: "We just pushed and shoved passengers out, generally without cabin baggage – about a body every second.
"Some passengers remained calm. I recall seeing a poor lady at the bottom of the chute. She just stood there and wet herself. One of the aircraft tyres was rolling towards another lady passenger.
A fireman helped her away and another managed to divert the tyre’s course of rolling. Whilst all this was going on, the aircraft exploded three to four times." The casualties were discovered once the fire had been extinguished.
They included Ms Harrison, a young girl, a disabled woman and two people who suffocated. Mrs Chatterley said she believed Ms Harrison had been killed while trying to rescue the child. Since the accident, changes to aeroplanes were made, she said.
These included the introduction of secure overhead lockers.
The Facts
Rosalind Chatterley left BOAC in July 1970 to get married. "In those days, you couldn’t be married and fly," she said. "But once a flying girl, always a flying girl"
Before Mrs Chatterley left the airline, she travelled around the world 72 times .
The longest time she spent in one place was 45 days in Fiji, while waiting for essential engineering work to be carried out on an aeroplane
Most of her career was spent in first class as it was BOAC company policy for new flight attendants to work at a high standard at the start of their career. This she said, was pure "silver service", with seven-course meals and gourmet diningn Among her first class passengers were politicians, businessmen and members of the Royal Family and their staff.
Mrs Chatterley, who was a trained nursery nurse and fluent in French and Spanish, said cabin crew also needed to be fluent in more than one language and training in a form of child care or health
Prince Philip, who was in his office at Windsor Castle when he spotted Flight 712 in the sky and watched it through binoculars, has written the foreword for Susan Ottaway’s Fire Over Heathrow: The Tragedy of Flight 712

[Chris Scott]

Can't remember why I went to LHR that day. My base was LGW, flying Daks and Herons. For whatever reason, on my day off, I had to drive to Heathrow. Coming in from the Hounslow direction, I saw a growing column of black smoke rising from the middle of the airfield; too much for a practice by the Airport Fire Service.

Later, I learned that the crew had done a great job doing 5/8 of a left-hand circuit and landing north-eastwards on Rwy 05R, having taken off to the west on 28R. In due course, it was said that the one mistake was that they had failed to close the LP-cock (low-pressure fuel valve) of the engine that had caught fire. As a copilot with no jet experience at that time, this meant little to me.

Apparently, though, the LP fuel valve was at the beginning of the fuel line from the fuel tank to the engine. It was closed by pulling the fire handle, prior to firing the first of 2 fire extinguishers. At the other end of the pipe, at the engine itself, was the HP-cock (high-pressure fuel valve). The crew had successfully closed this when they shut the engine down, using the same lever that is used on a normal shut down.

When the burning engine fell away, however, there would have been nothing to stop fuel pouring out of the severed fuel pipe at the top of what remained of the engine pylon.

3 years later, I converted to the BAC/Vickers VC10, which has slightly more powerful versions of the Conway engine than Whisky-Echo had. The flight-engineer’s fuel panel (designed circa 1963) was/is logically laid out, like a schematic diagram, with switches and indicators showing the positions of the various valves; including the LP valve for each engine. During and after a fire drill, there could be little doubt what was the position of the relevant LP valve.

After another 4 years (1975), I went on the Boeing 707-320C (not BOAC), with Pratt & Whitney JT3D turbofans. But I doubt the F/E’s fuel panel was much different from Whisky-Echo’s, even though ours were newer aeroplanes − also built well after our VC10s. When I saw the indication system for the LP valve, I was dismayed. The only indicator was a dim blue light. When the valve was open, the light was off; when the valve was closed, the light was also off (yes, this is not a typo).

The only indication of a change in the position of the valve was that the blue light came on WHILE THE VALVE WAS IN TRANSIT. So, if the flight-engineer was distracted for the few moments while the valve was in transit, there was no way of satisfying himself that the valve had run shut. And if the fire handle had not been pulled properly, there was nothing on his panel to warn him (and the captain, who can also see the flight-engineer’s panel) that something had not been done; that needed to be done.

Round about 1976, our B707s started to be modified; to improve the LP valve position indication…

[straightfeed]

IRC the LP cock could be closed by the Fire handle or the LP switch on the F/E panel.

The BOAC initial drill was -
1. Thrust lever closed- to avoid shutting off the wrong motor.
2. Start lever cut off- hp valve at the engine
3. Fire Switch (handle) pull- trips the genny, shuts the hyd pump supply off, closes the lp cock(if IRC also the hp electrically) and arms the extinguisher cct.
4. Fire off the first extinguisher if the fire still evident or a fire warning.
5. 30 secs, fire off the second shot and if no joy speed up to get the fire to leave the scene. Great idea but we believed Boeing at the time!
F/E then announces phase one complete and reads the check list aloud to double check all is done.

Later on, cant remember when, he then switches off the LP cock switch on his panel (this should do nothing as it was already closed but it was belt and braces)and announces light on dim. The valve had a blue light. Bright for transit, dim for closed. Push to test dim produced a bright light thus checking the bulb was ok and the valve closed.

This is all 30 year old memory but as a trainer I seem to remember this still-sad git!

It could be that WE was not modified as my history only goes back to 1970.
Straightfeed

[Chris Scott]

Hi straightfeed,

The drill you remember certainly sounds in line with my memory from 1975-77, on the -320Cs.

But on most of our aeroplanes (BCAL), the ones with the blue light, it was on only when the LP valve was in transit. The modified light, if memory serves, was white. It was bright when valve in transit; dim when valve closed. Maybe yours were different.

It certainly would be interesting to know the exact mod state of the fuel panel on G-ARWE, but my present dial-up connection discourages me from trying to find the original AIB report.

Chris

[ZFT]

Wasn’t a contributory factor the location of the fire handles on the ex Cunard Eagle aircraft being different to the standard BOAC aircraft and just who was responsible for pulling the fire handle?

P5 as opposed to the glareshield but I can’t recall which had what.

[411A]

The BOAC initial drill was -
1. Thrust lever closed- to avoid shutting off the wrong motor.
2. Start lever cut off- hp valve at the engine
3. Fire Switch (handle) pull- trips the genny, shuts the hyd pump supply off, closes the lp cock(if IRC also the hp electrically) and arms the extinguisher cct.
4. Fire off the first extinguisher if the fire still evident or a fire warning.
5. 30 secs, fire off the second shot and if no joy speed up to get the fire to leave the scene. Great idea but we believed Boeing at the time!
F/E then announces phase one complete and reads the check list aloud to double check all is done.

Later on, cant remember when, he then switches off the LP cock switch on his panel (this should do nothing as it was already closed but it was belt and braces)and announces light on dim. The valve had a blue light. Bright for transit, dim for closed. Push to test dim produced a bright light thus checking the bulb was ok and the valve closed.

This is all 30 year old memory but as a trainer I seem to remember this still-sad git!



You remember correctly, PanAmerican and standard Boeing procedures about the same.
The 707 was a reliable old aeroplane, but it did require proper procedures to be followed, least you end up in a heap.
The Captain on WE did quite a commendable job.
These old aeroplanes were not easy to fly, compared to later designs.

Wasn’t a contributory factor the location of the fire handles on the ex Cunard Eagle aircraft being different to the standard BOAC aircraft and just who was responsible for pulling the fire handle?

P5 as opposed to the glareshield but I can’t recall which had what.

P5 location was a customer option, made standard, as I recall, on later models.

[Brian Abraham]

Inspection found that none of the fire handles had been pulled, boost pumps for the main wing tanks and fuel shut off valves were still on. The "fire" and "failure" checklists were identical, with the addition of cancelling the fire bell and pulling the fire handle in the fire case. Confusion stemmed from "failure" being called first and then changed to "fire" at the same time as the Check Captain making the suggestion to call a mayday.

[Super VC-10]

I've been expanding the Wikipedia article on the accident today. Reading this thread, it looks like I'll have to get the book too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_712

[forget]

Super VC-10 - Someone who knows how to expand Wikipedia. :ok:

When you next get bored please see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAF_stations

A Prune thread, below, pointed out several ommissions from this list - including Binbrook. Could you correct these?

RAF Stations (past and Present) - Biggest, Best and Bonnyist??

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321144

[Super VC-10]

RAF Binbrook is on the list, and has its own article. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Binbrook

[forget]

VC-10, My apologies for using this thread - from the RAF Stations thread, .......

mystic_meg said "Binbrook was obviously a figment of my imagination then... "

Binbrook wasn't then mentioned. It is now.

My suggestion was - I have to confess - the list wasn't from memory I borrowed it from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RAF_stations

Perhap if we leave this a few weeks for more additions then someone who understands editing Wiki could do just that.

....... and I've just noticed RAF Bahrain (Muharraq) under United Arab Emirates. Not so.

Wiki still needs more work. :)

[Super VC-10]

Forget, you could always be bold and edit the article yourself. You don't need to join Wikipedia to edit articles. :)

[Super VC-10]

Just to let you know, the article on the accident is currently featuring in the "Did You Know?" section of the main page of Wikipedia, and will be there for the next 6 hours or so. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

[Warmtoast]

For those who may not have seen it the last flight of WE is described in a profusely illustrated, six-page article in the current (June 2008) issue of The Aeroplane magazine.

It includes a very dramatic colour photo taken by an ATC officer of it landing back minus number 2 engine with the port wing aflame.