Questions for late starters

[57GoldTop]

Hi folks,

Long time lurker here on the forums. Oh no this isn't another "Am I too old?" thread is it ?. I have almost completed my PPL training, I only have a couple more things to do. I originally did my GFPT at a flying school on the south coast and transferred to a large school in Bankstown, best thing I ever did although it was unsettling at first but I gained from the experience and my naving has improved significantly thanks to my new instructor.

I currently work full time in IT which means that I can only get up there on weekends or when time & weather permits, would like to do more regular flying ( who wouldn't ?? ). Work pays very well which helps fund my flying and gives me the opportunity to save money for a good CPL course, the question is which path to take as there are so many full time courses and I want to do this properly without having so many breaks in my training routine.

I have considered a couple of options, continue on to do a CPL/IR at my current rate but that would take too long and I'm already in my mid 30's. Cadetships are another option, I was looking at Regional Express but it appears that it is mainly geared towards younger pilots, the advice on the forum tends to advise people to steer clear of it anyway but what do I know as I've only been in this game for just over a year. There's also the Qantas Cadetship which seems to be one of the most attractive provided you can fork out at least 42k for phase one and be lucky enough to loan the rest from Qantas credit union.

So for all of you who started flying later on in life. Is there an ideal path to take ? How did u deal with work, flight training, funding and the angst of it all ? Did you simply save the money, quit your full time job and then go for it or did you do it bit by bit. I would like to hear from you :)

Cheers.

[Lodown]

What is it with IT? Everyone loves the money, but hates the job. Take a shot at aviation and love the job but hate the money. I'm just cynical...

Enjoy the flying. There's lots of good advice if you run a search on previous postings too.

[marty1468]

Hi 57GoldTop,

I'm currently working at Boeing as a Technical Writer whilst funding my CPL part time. I have 192 hours up so far. I ham doing the 200 hour route as i had already done some flying before but if you've started at YBKS i would continue there as you will only have to do 150 hours.

I had a phone call from Kim in the HR department at REX cos i sent them an email about their cadetship and my age (39 for a few more months). She said they are not age discriminatory but i would have to start from scratch. That would possibly cost me another $80,000 on top of what i've spent already. I can't afford that due to family committments. I too have read about the P&C at REX and think "Is it worth paying all of that money to work for a measly $47,000K as FO ??????

I wouldn't worry about mid 30's and time. You have plenty. I read on this site a few weeks ago about a guy who got his first jet job at VB and he was 47 i think. The tide seems to be turning that way so for you i dont think there's a real rush. I would just get through it methodically and see how it goes and definately do some networking because as with everything, it's not what you know but who you know that will help you.

Anyway, best of luck with it all.

Marty

[Capt Wally]

hey '57' it's never too late to start flying, it's just what you have in mind after you have done yr intial training to say CPl MECIR with perhaps an instructor rating that will have any impact on yr late start. I didn't start flying 'till I was 24 & that was back then considered quite late but thru working 3 jobs & a few lucky breaks along the way I now fly full time in the commercial world but pretty much missed the boat for the majors. Seeing as you have expertise in another area that will help. You may need to along the way to gaining the hours req fall back to yr original work even if only part time. I did just that as a motor mechanic for many years. Even if you say don't finish 'till around 40 or so getting a few hours amassed you could stay in the instructing field (should you go down that path) building up hrs, that area alone is suffering big time! Don't think even with a reasonable amount of funds behind you it's going to be fairly straight forward, but having said that if you are very determined, have options in the way of funding say thru work elsewhere then you have as good a chance as anybody whom might be younger than you but flat broke!

The cadetship avenue is an option but yr age may work against you there.
Look at the end of the day you get a CPL & an instructors rating then you have done well. Aim for say that situation which is very achievable at yr age & doors will always open for other areas.

Good luck

CW:)

[bushy]

I think there are lots of operators who would welcome an older, more stable workforce.

EARLY TO BED,
EARLY TO RISE,
WORK LIKE HELL, AND ADVERTISE

[57GoldTop]

Thanks to all for your responses.
@lodown

I.T. does offer some great opportunities but the money doesn't come as easy as some believe and pay isn't that great for the hours that you do. After graduating from Uni my first job only offered me 22k, being young and naive I stuck around for years with 3% pay increases believing I would move on to bigger and better things within the company but then realized that the quickest and most efficient way to do that was to look for another job :) . I know some very intelligent people who are stuck in tech support or call centre roles and can't get out even though they have degrees in I.T or Computer Science.

I start work around 7am and leave work around 5:30pm only if after hours work is not required,there is also additional weekend work for critical changes ( online banking..etc ) which are done very late at night. To make matters worse some firms force contractors to claim a maximum number of hours of work and make the employee take T.O.I.L instead, it defeats the purpose of being a contractor in the first place so why should one work additional hours when they're not being paid for it.. it's not like you actually get a day off and can plan to do stuff because you're just going to wound up exhausted to the point to where you cannot even function properly.... get several working days like this in a row and you will see what i mean.


@marty1468

I actually started flying with a school down south, I moved up to YBSK recently and have no intention on going back. I only have around 62 hours so far, technically I should have my PPL by now but the extra hours is attributed to the fact that I wanted to do my PA28 endorsement and of course the move to the other school.

It really makes you wonder about REX. I've looked into it and read every thread on them here and I don't like what I'm reading. It still wouldn't be worth it even if you had the 80k up front and I am sure they wouldn't even take you in as they would not be entitled to keep you for as long as they wanted, you could just do your 36 weeks training and then leave with no obligations. This whole business about starting from scratch is not very encouraging at all and I wouldn't bother.

@Capt Wally

I might give the cadetship a try later on, there's no harm in trying anyway but in the meantime I'm going to work towards building up my experience and I think an instructor rating might be the way to go since there is a shortage there but will see what happens along the way, there's no use putting all eggs in one basket so all avenues are open. I'll just stay focused on getting the PPL out of the way first until I save enough money for the CPL course.

[BoundaryLayer]

Marty1468,

You should knock off your CPL and apply to QFLink's Traineeship. You will meet their minimum requirements (there is another thread on this for more info).

[Duff Shark]

just some bit of friendly advise from someone who has been there and done that. I come from an extreemly sucessful IT career earning BIG money and made the decision to go into flying at 27, I understood the issues with the industry before i entered it 4 years ago so it was not a suprise. Be prepared for the FACT that you are age discriminated normally at the top end (regionals and airlines) otherwise all the carriers would not require you to fill in your age on application , anyone who thinks otherwise would be niave, "ergo me at the time" when they have your application against some other guy with the same hours but 10years younger they will always go for the younger. Try explaining to them experiance of prevous jobs, management roles, degree's you have and will go blue in the face, they would rather the "potential" of the 21year old to the "proven" of the 30 year old. Remember dont give em the satifaction of being right, with each knock down you get straight back up.

my 2 cents

DS

[Gearupandorrf]

G'day Barrumundi and Duff Shark,

Given the state of the Industry now and for the forseeable future, how many 20- somethings will the Airlines have to pick and choose from down the track??

The way I see it, guys/ girls in their 30's might have to work in GA for a longer period of time whilst the younger ones get their turn sooner, but surely it's only a matter of time until the average 30- something gets a look in as well after logging some good experience.

Also, the process (in terms of time) of moving through the ranks of SE VFR/ ME IFR/ Regional/ Airline has reduced greatly, with the possiblilty of moving into the RHS at a Regional now being possible with only 1000hrs TT (including minimal Twin time). The CP of Alligator Airways was recently quoted "we used to be able to count on a Pilot being with us for 2-3 years, now it's down to about 6 months".

Mind you, I'm desperately hoping that I'm right.
I've just turned 34 and within a couple of months of knocking off the CPL/ MECIR and ATPL subjects. Might also try to find a C206/ 210 to get a couple of hours in and then apply for any and every job that I might fit the bill for. I'm willing to move to where the jobs are.

Surely the likes of VB would look at me in 4 years time at the grand "old" age of 38 with 2500- 3000 hrs TT with lots of Multi (and hopefully some Turbine)?
Especially If I'm the one paying for the Boeing/ EMB endo, what's the perceived "risk" to them? I can understand if they're the ones making the financial investment with the perceived increased training risk that older applicants seem to attract.

Heck, even QantasLink have told me directly that my age is fine in order to apply and be otherwise competitive for their new Traineeship scheme (which I will definitely have a hard look at after I've also done one of the QF approved Maths bridging courses).

I've also heard a school of thought that states that the Airlines like to hire a cross section of age groups when employing new Pilots, to prevent a situation where masses of crew retire in a short period.

All thoughts (+'ve and -'ve) on the above welcome.

Cheers,
Gearup.

[training wheels]

Heck, even QantasLink have told me directly that my age is fine in order to apply and be otherwise competitive for their new Traineeship scheme

I would have thought older applicants would be more attractive to the regionals as they are less likely to be picked up by the majors and thus, more likely to stay.

[Duff Shark]

Look by all means if you want to do it try but just keep your options open. The advantage of us older pilots is we still have a career to fall back on. Most likely GA operators will give preference cause you are a little older and more confident (not just sit there and wet your pants when you have to get up in front of a large crowd) and can handle going bush without holding dads hand. But my real beef was with the majors, they like their pilots young pref cadets and parents with deep pockets.

quote "Heck, even QantasLink have told me directly that my age is fine in order to apply"
yes Gearuhpandorrf they say that cause it is illegal to discriminate due to age, so why do all airlines require you to tell them your age ?

With the current market operators will have to open up a little more and thus think hard and fast why they have these policies, but generally accept that you are going to have to work a little harder and possibly take a few more knockdowns that others around you.