DHL/LH to use B777

[greuzi]

Lufthansa Cargo / DHL Express Joint Venture Airline 'AeroLogic' to Operate Boeing 777 Freighters

Deucalion orders eight 777 Freighters for lease to AeroLogic
January 28, 2008: 05:04 AM EST


SEATTLE, Jan. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing today announced that Deucalion Capital VII Limited ("Deucalion"), a company advised and managed by DVB Bank AG, has purchased eight Boeing 777 Freighters for lease to AeroLogic, a new joint venture airline formed by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express.
Valued at $2 billion at list prices, the eight 777 Freighters were ordered by Avion Group of Iceland in 2005. Avion Group terminated its order and the airplanes were picked up by Deucalion in late 2007.
Deucalion will lease the freighters to AeroLogic, the joint venture first announced by Lufthansa Cargo and DHL Express last year, for cargo services on European-Asian routes. AeroLogic will operate out of Leipzig, Germany.
"The 777 Freighter's twin-engine fuel efficiency, low noise and overall capability are perfectly suited for our new cargo service out of Leipzig," said AeroLogic Managing Director Dr. Thomas Papke. "Its combination of long range and maximum payload make it a highly economical and profitable freighter. I can't imagine another freighter that would work as well as the 777 Freighter in meeting our demanding environmental and performance targets."
The 777 Freighter will be capable of flying 4,885 nautical miles (9,045 kilometers) with a full payload, making it the world's longest-range freighter. With the lowest trip cost of any large freighter and excellent ton-mile economics, the 777 Freighter will build on the 777 family's demonstrated success in delivering lower fuel consumption, maintenance costs and operating costs than other airplanes in its class.
"As one of the newest members of the Boeing family of freighters, the 777 Freighter is a symbol of our commitment to offering customers the most capable and efficient freighters in the world," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales for Europe, Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "With a record 83 orders for freighters in 2007, our freighter family is recognized by customers around the world as offering superior performance. I look forward to our partnership with AeroLogic as the 777 Freighter becomes a cornerstone of its success."
The 777 Freighter will feature unmatched capacity and range for a twin-engine freighter and is designed to facilitate seamless interlining with the 747 freighter. With a maximum takeoff weight of 766,000 pounds (347,450 kilograms), the 777 Freighter will have a revenue payload capability of more than 226,000 pounds (103 metric tons). In addition, the 777 Freighter will meet QC2 noise standards for maximum accessibility to noise-sensitive airports.

About AeroLogic GmbH
AeroLogic GmbH is jointly owned by DHL Express and Lufthansa Cargo AG, with each company holding a 50 percent stake. The airline, which was founded in September 2007 and is based in Leipzig/Schkeuditz, developed from the joint venture set up by the two partners in 2004. The company currently has about 20 employees. In all, AeroLogic is expected to generate about 250 new jobs, roughly 200 of which will be for cockpit crew. By 2012, the AeroLogic fleet will encompass eleven leased Boeing 777-200Fs, the first four of which are scheduled for delivery at the beginning of 2009. AeroLogic's cargo capacities will mainly be used by DHL Express and Lufthansa Cargo. The two partners will also be responsible for sales and warehouse handling. Operations are being planned around both partners' requirements: on weekdays, freighters will fly to Asian destinations in the express network operated by DHL Express. At weekends, they will supplement Lufthansa Cargo's services. For customers of the parent companies, AeroLogic will mean more capacity, more flexibility, an expanded network and improved operating times.

[Walter Sobchak]

Homepage is up and running.

http://aerologic.aero/web/en/Home/

[B767-383]

Does anybody have any information about their working conditions for cockpit crew? Days off, pay scale, rostering etc

There wasn't anything about this on their website, just some info about Leipzig and all its wonders.

Fly safe!

[BMM389EC]

Also interested to hear what the Terms and Conditions are? Pay? Thanks

[angelorange]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/01/29/221164/aerologic-aims-to-recruit-200-pilots-to-crew-its-boeing-777f-fleet.html

[neil armstrong]

We have been told there will be opportunities for pilots of DHL to join this new set up.
we have not been told yet what the package will be


Neil

[hetfield]

What arrogant people published that website?

Applying without any infomation about terms&conditions?

Not me:\

[skycruiser65]

Wrote it already in the Fragrant Harbour section:

In either language they write, that English is mandatory and German is nice, but not requirerd.
Check for the comparably low requirements for a "world wide operator", concerning experience, licenses, languages and more.
It seems to me, that initially they try to collect a bunch of thousands of applicants, many of them from Eastern Europe (Leipzig is closer to Prague and Warsaw than to Amsterdam, London and Paris) and upon that setting up the T&Cs, probably being the worst we can expect, moreover being individually tuned.
The more media talk about a pilot shortage, the more there will be a flood of pilots from every corner of Europe and the world, desperately seeking for better work conditions. Adding those, who desperately want to return from the Middle East, this airline won´t be able to cope with the number of applicants, it receives in the next weeks.

[speedrestriction]

probably being the worst we can expect, moreover being individually tuned.

In a hypothetical but realistic sense, what would be a 'fair' wage for this job?

FO €70k basic?

sr

[skycruiser65]

70k € may be after 2-3 years. Guess initially 50k € for FOs, non type rated.
The "Director Human Resources" is Wolfgang John, a former CEO of Aero Lloyd, which, shortly after he changed to Hapag-Lloyd (now TUIfly), went bankrupt.
At Hapag-Lloyd he was one of 3 Board Members, trying to sharply reduce social conditions for the staff, especially crew members.
"Unfortunately" he didn´t manage to run this course for a long time, so after 3 years without any positive input he voluntarily resigned, as Mr. Christoph Müller, the master chief looser, who run TUIfly close to bankruptcy, was put ahead of him.
What annoys me - flight business is so small, that any new company means just recycling of rotten and forgotten garbage, sorry to tell it like this.
Obviously there are no really qualified guys out there to run this.

[Hunter58]

Skycruiser

since you have such well-founded remarks about those people and know much better how to run things, why don't you apply to run it?

[FCS Explorer]

- management team contains some "real clever" guys (and since LH will tell them how to make "their decisions".... muppets are cheaper, see last line!)

- payscale is to be "published soon", yet "please apply now"

-----
IMHO: obviously they are not trying to lure people in via real money or competitive T&Cs.
they just sit and wait if they get enough loco-people who are used to do it for less or don't care that much for the bucks as they are on a nice pension anyway and want to fly five more years from 60 to 65. or return to europe. or a blinded by the shine of the number 777 (by the way: 777 is kinds close to 666, isn't it?:8)

reminds me of an ebay auction. except lowest bidder wins job.

and i think they will succeed.:{

after all, one of the magic key points in the whole show is to stay UNDER lufthansa cargo payment AS FAR AS possible. cos thats what outsourcing is about. saving money.

[mumsilein49]

Don`t believe in lies or father christmas; there will be no openings to the short haul, unexperienced guys, prowling around BRU or EMA:ugh:

[fruitless...]

Fully agree with FCS...its all about 'aviation buisness model' SAVINGs or higher profit margins for share holders! :D

[misd-agin]

"We're looking for experienced pilots, but they don't need a 777 (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/01/01/218144/boeing-777-aircraft-profile.html)rating," says Papke. "For captains we need a minimum of 5,000h and for co-pilots 1,000h."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA. The new aviation reality...experienced pilots at 1000 hrs TT. :yuk:

[EAM]

Well I dont want to destroy your illusions but as the Dirctor Flight Ops,
is the former FOPH of LTU and quite a few well experienced LTU Cpts and FOs are available and willing to change, because of the situation with AB, there will be only a limited chance for foreign pilots, exept they come with a 777 rating.

[EAM]

As agreed between the union(s) and Air Berlin ExCom, 1/5 of the entire fleet expansions will occur in favour of LTU. Hence, no cheap and easy "outsourcing" to the disadvantage of the employees like it had/has happened before with DBA.


Yes, but they did not say if these 20% will be A320 or A330, which makes a big difference in the crew factor and the LTU pilots might end up doing short haul.
So I guess quite a few are willing to make a change and others may come back from EY, but as you say, time will tell.

[YP321]

remember there is an agreement also that no LTU pilots are allowed to join AB now (direct entry command)! so there goes a good chance for those guys... i mean the f/os! hopin' the best for them! i hear for now only 450 applications found to leipzig! i would have thought at least a thousand would try to get their foot into their doorsteps...:}
Also keep in mind that some retired LTU and LH capt might want to fly till 65 and make some extra money for their "small" pension:D

good night everyone.......

[alatnariver]

It all will depends on the T&C offered. But rest assured even or especially due the deal between the German pilot's union and LTU as well as Air Berlin, a lot of the pilots at LTU are "not amused" by the management "style" adopted by Air Berlin.

There will be other German pilots currently in the sandpit, either former LTU pilots or others with a 777 TR, who might be interested to return back home for different reasons.

There might be also "older" guys who want to fly above 60. Getting older guys in and taking care of an well spread average age within the fleet is also an issue which might be of interest, as if you start with only DEC in their mid 40's there might be nearly no upgrades for about 20 years if the fleet size would not expand.

For a lot of non German's especially if you are older working in Germany and contributing to it's social security system might not be appealing. An option to base pilots off shore is not an option as it would be prpabbly not in line with the German law. So you will be taxed in Germany and you will have to pay your social contributions in Germany. A health insurance is mandatory and not cheap. The big drawback might be the pension.

The state pension system wont allow someone like me, I am in my late 30's, to retire at age 65 with the full pension, which is not much and would not even get close to what we earn as pilots. I would have to work up to 67 to be eligible for the full pension. However the pension is based on the years you and the employer contributed to the system. So, if you are let's say 45 and want to fly until 65 you have only 20 years, which in term is far away from being elegible for a full pension, as you miss years.

With these facts people have to take care of their private pesnion by different models, e.g. funds etc. to retain their social status after retirement. Well established companies offer supplementary pensions to fill the gap between the state pension and a certain level. But will a new company offer this? A question that might be answered if you get the T&C.

Just my 50 cents.

[Brix]

I agree entirely with the previous post. What one could add is the fact, that some companies e.g. LTU are indeed providing some sort of pension scheme. In this case the company contributions will increase the tax percentage you pay on your monthly salary (geldwerter Vorteil). Upon retirement you expect to reap the harvest... and surprise, surprise, you are double taxed on it! There are many other examples like that. When you're pumping gas you pay the V.A.T. on top of the fuel tax which the state has already imposed on it.

remember there is an agreement also that no LTU pilots are allowed to join AB now (direct entry command)!

@ YP321: It is typically german, that you get to know these things only in a forum like this and not by other means. Thank you for the info.

[TheFatMan]

It became awful quiet about this one, no news anyone? Still nothing about terms?

[neil armstrong]

got a

Thank you for your application. Please remember, it will take about one to three weeks to process your information.

We will contact you as soon as possible.

of them

nothing since

Neil

[dilmon]

Already someone invited for an interview? Or any T&C known?
Any info welcome.

Grtz

[Mr Angry from Purley]

tomuch
I know a German F/O who has a group interview 4/5 March in Berlin
:\

[Boeingbuddy]

Has anybody some information about the computer test.
I have no idea what to expect.
Thanks

[X-FEED 1]

Hi,
applied on 23. Feb.
got a
Until now, we have identified the first group of applicants who most probably will match our pilot profil. An initial screening will take place soon.
There are several more screening events planed for 2008.
We would like to keep your data stored in our database for further screening vacancies.
We will keep you updated by email.

:ok:

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Got the same email today.

[cosmiccomet]

I have received the same email, keep trying....:}:}:}

[CEJM]

Just an idea. The people who receive an e-mail as mentioned above could they please state their experience and aircraft type.

2700TT
A320/A330

Edited: I have received the same e-mail.

[X-FEED 1]

21000tt
8000 A340/330

[cosmiccomet]

6000 tt
DC10 3200 hrs
B744 300 hrs

[lepremier]

Total 22'000
MD11 4'100
B777 3'800

[1500psi]

7000tt.

3000 DC10
1200 A310
200 A300-B4

Cheers.

[CEJM]

Thanks guys, :ok: it would be interesting to see who got a invite for selection and what their experience is.

I am amazed that they turn people down who have 22000TT with 3800TT on the B777.

People who are invited for an interview can they please post their experience also.

Not trying to get a discussion about who has the most hours and fly's the biggest aircraft. :=

Thanks, CEJM

[lepremier]

A friend of mine with similar experience, 20'000 +TT and 5 years B777 experience, 3500 +, also had "the email"...the other thing that we both have in common is our age...59, so maybe that is also a criteria!!

[underread east]

Or they know that you'll laugh at the money...:}

[bleeds off]

Also got that email
3600 TT
2000 ATR

[Denti]

Got the email as well (applied as FO) as have many if not most of my colleagues at dba.

TT4800
4600 of that on B733/B735

Anyway, they had to post the minimum requirements laid down by the LBA otherwise they would be liable to discrimination lawsuits. The internal requirements might be totally different but they won't ever tell them to the public.

[DHC6to8]

edited at the request of another

[3holer]

20000 TT
B777 2500
MD11 3800
DC10 5700
Though not JAA
50 years old

[CR2]

Can someone tell me what the purpose is of listing all your types & hours here?

:confused:

[Best Angle]

Isn't this where we apply??
:8

[Best foot forward]

If only it was that simple:p

Any DHL UK applicants get the nod yet:ok:

[fruitless...]

Patience is a virtue!!! Guys its only jet-set next yearrrr!! :ok:

[MaxBlow]

I hear that first interviews are being held in Berlin as we 'speak'.
Most of the guys are LTU crews so far (DFO is ex LTU as well).

[sapco2]

Unsavoury as it may sound to some, recruiting known individuals can be an efficient method of yielding loyalty! On that basis I had half expected a few experienced DHL/EAT pilots to be selected to attend the first batch of interviews. To date though I have heard of only one - good luck to that man!

[EAM]

As the VP OPS is the former DFO of LTU, this loyalty comes from the LTU guys and as I said in this thread earlier, most guys will come from LTU and that is what happens now.

[sapco2]

I for one, don't doubt that at all EAM but who can honestly blame him for firstly selecting individuals already known to him?

[EAM]

100% agree, he takes the guys he knows and he can rely on. Most of them are in positions with LTU for years, so it is an existing team, not unimportant for a start up.
Also as most of the guys are german, they are quite sure that they will stay and not just grap a 777 rating and leave after 2-3 years.

[classicart]

"ATPL issued by a JAA state or another authority accepted by the LBA"

what does LBA stand for?

[Brix]

"Luftfahrtbundesamt", the german aviation authority.

[X-FEED 1]

Anybody attended Aerologic`s fist interview ?
Please share your experience; working conditions, days off, pay etc.
Thanks

[SkrywerDrywer]

So, what's the deal? Are these okes taking non-JAA or what?

[alatnariver]

Why should they take non JAA? You need to have a JAA ticket latest after one year on a validation. However I am sure they will get enough pilots who are qualified with JAA tickets.

[SkrywerDrywer]

Uh, I dunno, really. But do you see that? I actually answered your question. You, on the other hand, simplyu spewed the drivel of which you are clearly made.

[Denti]

The LBA doesn't even allow new type ratings onto valid ICAO compliant german licenses (pre-JAR). No way in hell will they allow non JAR-licensed personell to work in an outfit like that.

[fingal flyer]

And how far would I get at UPS or FEDEX with a JAA licence.

[fingal flyer]

Exactly---Its something we have accepted on this side of the pond so why is the opposite not accepted by those on the other side.

[SkrywerDrywer]

Come now children. Let us not allow our pathetic egos to let us lose sight of the question.

Are these okes taking non-JAA or what?

That was it there. There was neither hint nor allegation of who is allowed to do what in the EU vs. USA. A simple, straightforward question was asked regarding license requirements.

The answer to the question, minus all of your childish rants, might have gone something along these lines:

1. No. I have applied without a JAA license and have been turned down because of it.

Or,

2. Yes. My application is under consideration and I do not have a JAA license.

Simple, see. However, of course, it is never that simple in an industry so full of whining imbeciles and egotistical deadheads. :ok:

[trashhauler]

fingal flyer
You asked about Fed Ex; here is the low down. Let's assume for the moment that the U.S. would accept the JAA license and would issue an FAA certificate; you still could not work for Fed Ex. All crews that are hired by Fed Ex are initially Memphis based crews and that would mean you would need to have a green card.
Take a look at part 61 of the FAA regs and you might find that you can take a written exam and pass a checkride in order to obtain a U.S. certificate.

[747flyby]

This forum has been quiet for some time.

Those of you who have been for interview.
Would you please enlighten us about what they are offering in salary for Captains and First Officers as wll as time off and on.

Pension program etc.

For those of you asking for JAR or non JAR license.
Germany is a very strict country with rules.
I find it very hard to belive that they will accept anyone who does not have the right to live and work in europe nor with a JAR license while they can find pilots in europe

The same applies with Europens wanting to work in U.S.A, Canada, Austrlia, South Africa and many other countries.

However if they cannot find pilots in europe (very unlikely) they might issue a validation for 6-12 months in the meantime that indivitual should optain him or herself a EASA license. However if a European with the proper documentation applies for the position the company will have to make space for him and the one with exemption will have to give way.

It seems however that there will not be any validations once EASA has been fully implemented. Each issuing country will be responsible issuing licenses. However if they break the rules there will be a heavy fine for each case.

[flyneo]

Hi all,

anyone who already did the screening for Aerologic? Or will they start them in the comming months?
Would be nice to fly a 777 out of Germany...

Greetings,

flyneo

[skycruiser65]

They´re drowned in applications, especially from Asia and M/E (EK) with a lot of heavily experienced and rated pilots.

So forget the requirements, published on their website, they´re just there for formal reasons and should be ignored.

Guess, the T&Cs will be weighted out vs. the overwhelming number of suitable and willing applicants, and as they´re are countless from above mentioned regions, who desperately want to get back to Europe, don´t expect too much.

[skycruiser65]

...What are your sources, you happen to be LTU?

Close to that, affirm.
Anyway, living in Germany, you´re closer to those facts, as the community is small...

[NOR116,20]

One thing is evident from the outset:
T&Cs will be less attractive than those of LCAG. That’s one of the reasons for founding a subsidiary instead of expanding.
It will be decisive for T&Cs which concessions for working in Europe pilots are willing to accept.
Hope this won’t turn out to be another case of decline in aviation.

[X-FEED 1]

screening started 1st week of March but T&Cs not jet published.

[willibald]

Hi folks,

to stop the rumours some facts as told during the final interview last week:

F/O base salary: 45000 €
F/O top salary: 90000 €
17 grades, increase by 2500€/year
20000 € increase after upgrade
experienced F/Os with wide body hours will be hired at 75000 €.

CPT base salary: 110000 €
CPT top salary: 157000 €

Per Diem according to Germany law 6 - 150 €/day depending on destination.

This salary shall cover all. There is no pension fond, no Loss-of-Licence, no staff travel, nothing else.

The screening and the tests were absolutely fair and require no special preparations.

The final interview was held in german. Also some of the test were in german. So it is wasting time and money to apply without a good working knowledge of the German language.

Good luck to everybody still interested.

[sapco2]

Appreciate the feedback willibald!

[flyneo]

Hi Willibald check your PM´s and many thanks for the update !

Safe flight !

flyneo

[neil armstrong]

very attractive pay for a 777 (NOT)

Neil

[Diabolo]

:eek: :} :ok:
That's it !

[Nightfire]

What would be an attractive pay for a 777 in Germany? :confused:

[Pylon]

And taxed according to german law ?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Neil
You'll have to stay put then, don't worry I love you even though your a f$$king nomad! :\

[alatnariver]

Of course taxed according german law :bored:

[Boxshifter]

Did a bit of calculation and figured out some rough estimates of net figures. As the tax system in Germany is very complicated, known as the probably most complex one in the world, those figures might be not correct, but at least should show what to expect to be put into your bank account at the end of the month.

Calculations are based on a single, no kids, assuming that 16,3% of the gross salary each month are paid out tax/social contribution free, to cover working on weekends, legal holidays and during nighttime, standard health insurance. To change to a private health insurance scheme you will have to be above the cap limit of €48.150,-- gross per year for the last 3 consecutive years before changing. I don’t know how this would be dealt with if you come to Germany from abroad. I also assume 12 monthly salaries, as nothing was mentioned re. a 13th month.

FO base: €45.000,-- gross per year or €3.750,-- gross per month
€2.315,-- net per month

FO top: €90.000,-- gross per year or €7.500,-- gross per month
€4.663,-- net per month

FO with widebody experience €75.000,-- gross per year or €6.250,-- gross per month
€3.876,-- net per month



Captain base: €110.000,-- gross per year or €9166,-- gross per month
€5.711,-- net per month

Captain top: €157.000,-- gross per year or €13.083,-- gross per month
€8.175,-- net per month


There should be a lot of variation due to the complexity of the tax system and in turn the above figures might be wrong. If you a married and/or have kids you get of course net more than that.

Also keep in mind that every additional benefit you would receive, e.g. ID tickets or a free breakfast while on layover, have to be taxed, meaning you will pay tax on it as it is treated as a benefit or a form of salary.

Regarding the 16,3% tax free part, it used to be the case that in a month you don’t fly at all or even only partly, because of sick leave or vacation, the amount can be reduced pro rated for the time you don’t be available for duty. However to receive the 16,3% tax free allowance this has to be agreed up on between the employer and the local tax authorities.

For those not familiar with pay figures on aircraft like a B777 keep in mind you will certainly generate a lot of revenue and net income for a company. It’s not a B737 or an A320!

I know pay is not everything, but what kind of rostering can you expect? How are the hotels? Expect a lot of time away from base and home, so hotels are your second home and should provide a decent standard.


Again, my calculations might be totally wrong. I am not a tax adviser! You can find some tools on the web that I used e.g. nettolohnrechner (http://www.steuern-online.de/rechner/nettolohn/index.html)

[Nightfire]

Thank you, Boxshifter! That was very informative.

That salary seems really "peanuts", bearing in mind no ID-tickets and no lol-insurance or pension benefits.
Working for a standard lo-co will get you almost the same kind of income.

[SkrywerDrywer]

I asked a tax adviser mate to do the numbers. You're within 4% of his numbers. Good job.

[EAM]

To change to a private health insurance scheme you will have to be above the cap limit of €48.150,-- gross per year for the last 3 consecutive years before changing

This is not true, as soon as you are over you can change into a private insurance, also when you come from abroad (was my case).

I dont see any tax reduction for night and sunday work on your calculation, this would increase the salary by about 500-800€ I would say, depends how they do it.

But after all, not very much compared to intern. salary.......BUT......the best package in germany after LH......yes, belive it.....I would say its time for a little ....oooohhhhhhh:(.

When I joined LTU with around 7000h and rated on A320/A330 my gross was around 50K, so here its 25K more!!!

Thats why I dont work in germany any more.

[Boxshifter]

EHAM, if you would be so kind and read all what I have written, then you would certainly see that the 16,3% tax and social contribution excempted part of the salary cover working during nights as well as on sundays and legal holidays. So no additional benefits in respect to this. That's the reason for this excemption.

LTU may have a different scheme, however the 16,3% at least used to be kind of a standard when I was flying at home. Also the figurs are only assumptions as I don't know if they can or will arrange the 16,3% excemption with the tax office or not.

Good to hear that you could join the private health insurance scheme when you come from abroad. However the law might have changed since than in this particular case. The law governing health insucrance was changed a couple of timex in the recent years and, rest assured, will be changed again in the future. Most likely in a way to keep people in the state run health insurance system.

If you can change to a private health insurance, you will be able to save a couple of hundred Euros. However this wont make it a good deal either.

LTU used to be one of the good outfits years ago before SR took over. It used to be the number one job for lots of pilots outside of LH. This changed but this is not a reason to pay peanuts, even for todays German standards!

They will find pilots, but possible not of the experience level they are looking right now.

Have a look a Jade Cargo and what's happening there. They were up for the same and failed badly. Aicraft sitting on the ground don't make a cent, they cost more than a handfull of Euros.

[EAM]

Ah ja, sorry, havent seen it.
Yes when I came back to work in germany I joined the privat healt insurance right away, that was in 2005, dont know if it has changed since.

Anyway, you wont find anyone else in germany paying 75K, even in LH you start with less. So compared to the german airlines the deal is not so bad.
In LTU my avarage take home was around 2600-2800€, flying MFF, thats about 1000€ less than what is offered here.
For the rest.....well....thats way I dont fly in germany anymore.

Trotzdem danke, für die Mühe...ach..EAM..bin kein Holländer aus Amsterdam.:ok: cheers

[sapco2]

Yo Neil, du bist ein Holländer aus Amsterdam! Was bedeutet das?

[Boxshifter]

EAM, sorry didn't want to displace you to the land behind the dikes :E. By the way the t&c with German airlines are one of the reasons, why I am also not working at home anymore.

You are right with your statement that the salary is within what is "normal" for Germany. However keep in mind that the starting salary with LH is usualy for a career starter on a narrow boddy aircraft and not on a B777. Even within LH it usually takes some time to progress to a B747 or A340. As the salary increases with time the pay after, let's say 5 years with LH is considerably higher, for both Capatains and First Officers, and if my information is correct, above what is on offer with AeroLogic. Not to mention the additional benefits, e.g. pension, loss of license, travel deals etc.

It's true, you will always find pilots who are willing to fly for this conditions. It's just a question if, especially as a start up, you can setup an operation like this. Of course you can but there might be a price to pay for and I don't know if it's worth to pay this price. Have a look at Jade Cargo. Rumours are that they have already lost more money with aircraft sitting on the ground due to pilot shortage, than a decent international standard package for t&c would have cost them.

And dear fellow coleagues, please don't get the impression that I am a snobish, overpayed pilot. No, in my opinion everyone deserves decent t&c and more a decent pay, be at on an ATR, a B737 or a B777!

[sapco2]

You're not being snobbish at all Boxshifter, what you've said so far is spot on!

[EAM]

Thats why is said its the best package after LH, this includes of course the whole Konzern, and by the way, the numbers are only basic, so no overtime mentioned, compare it with 890h on AeroLogic. I thing LH base is around 62-65K per year.

[hetfield]

For that i even stand crazy arabs trying to kill my family and me in their hopeless try to manouver their landcruiser/Patrol/ some other 4 wheel killing machine.

I choosed to pay the tax.

[Nightfire]

I think I'll go for the interview, but they'll have to make a very good offer to convince me.
I don't get why they are being so cheap with pilots' salaries - is cargo-business going that bad? Or do they just copy the standard lowcost-slavery principle of "if you don't like it, there are enough other guys outside who'd take your job"? :yuk:

I've been working abroad for many years now. And I think I might still be for quite some time. Not that I mind. :ok:

[hetfield]

What's their name again, AEROloco ?

[EAM]

is cargo-business going that bad? Or do they just copy the standard lowcost-slavery

The salary is above the standard german salary, companys like Air Berlin, LTU, Eurowings etc pay a lot less than that and LH does not pay much more.

[sapco2]

Nightfire is correct; night freighting companies are entirely different from the low cost passenger airlines. There are also a host of compelling reasons why freight pilots should be paid higher salaries. Nor should we lose sight of the fact that Aerologic will be ploughing enormous wealth back into their 2 parent companies!

Bear in mind that Aerologic will be operating these shiny new machines on the privileges of their employees' hard earned licences. So pilots should rightfully expect to be remunerated with a FAIR but decent salary, together with good terms & conditions.

A small price in my opinion for all that expertise, skill and experience!

[Nightfire]

The salary is above the standard german salary, companys like Air Berlin, LTU, Eurowings etc pay a lot less than that and LH does not pay much more.

It has to be above loco-standard - for known reasons, I think we all agree on that.
Of course some companies pay less, in Germany or elsewhere, but so what? We're living in a globalized world, we fly international routes, and therefore compare the salary against other international companies.

If somebody wants to return to Germany, he'll make some compromises on the terms and conditions. Depending on how homesick you are, or whatever your reasons may be. :\
But it's a pilots' market we're in right now. If you go there type-rated and experienced, then obviously you compare this offer to similar offers from other companies elsewhere.

[EAM]

Absolutly, you have the choice....5500€ in India or 3800€ in Germany.
If you like India, or Dubai,..well,... good. Trust me, the more reject the offer, the more all companies have to work on their salary, the better for the pilots.

Its only, what did you expect, because so many here in the forum obviously thought they would pay like 5k net for an F/O and 10k for a Cpt, but it was obvious that the salary will be around the "german standart" and its above it.

BTW its long haul cargo, that isnt much different from "normal" long haul, half of the flying is in the night.

[SkrywerDrywer]

Raise the package, or lower the salary. What do you reckon they'll do? :confused:

[747drivers]

hi,

could somebody post how much you have to work for that salary:number of OFF days,Leave etc.
by the way every company has to pay health insurance for their employee e.g if you go private you pay 50% and company pays 50%.
but still to low for widebody command net.

[320er]

Let me add one more point I miss in this talk:
There is still good chance that at least a part of these new 777 jobs go to DLH pilots.
We have a term in our (numerous) working contracts saying that pilot jobs in a company owned by LH by at least 50 percent have to offered to LH pilots (see German Wings). German VC (pilot union) is still negotiating on this matter. As there will be a bunch of CFG returners after change to AB, chances are that a part of aerologic jobs could be reserved for them.
As always. We will see...

[Boxshifter]

... so A and B scale salaries? wow!

Or would they just put 1% of the 50% to DHL or would 0,1% be enough?

Never mind, I fully understand the LHC pilots being concerned. I would be the same if I would be in their position!

So let's see and wait, a lot of water will be floating down the Elster (local river in LEJ, for those who don't know) in the meantime and they still have a year to go until start. :rolleyes:

[longranger777]

Well, it seems like they will get enough and experienced guys. They have already around 1800 applications and for the time they have stopped the online application...
I'm curious about the conditions. Not sure if they are already defined!

[skylark777]

Hi everybody on pprune interested on Aerologic 777,

-I'd like to know what is base salary and top salary for an F/O ?
-Do we have to live absoloutly around Leipzig ? ( Or, I mean is there a way to commute from an EU country ?)

Many thanks guys for your answers.

Best,
Skylark777
10500 Total Flight Times
& 3900 Hours on B777-200ER

:ok:

[willibald]

Hi Skylark777,

the base salary for F/Os will be 45000€. With your total hours and being rated on 777 you may expect to start between 75000 € and 85000 € total per year. This is the range offered to several other guys with similar experience.

Living in Leipzip area is not a pre-requisite for Aerologic pilots. But you always shuttle on you own costs. This might be expensive as there is no interline agreement so far.

Regards
willibald

[Angel`s Playmate]

Guys !

It doesn`t really matter what top/base whatever salary is offered. At the end of the day the taxman takes it all !:{

Roughfly 50% is common all over Europe, especially Germany. Did a gig there in the 9ties. Really enjoyed it, but the first 6 months is working for the government, only ! :ok:


For those in the sandpit or further east considering buying a return ticket, think again in terms of housing, school, transport, medical, ticket wso allowance. Pension plan? End of contract handshake ?

All NIL !

[cosmiccomet]

Today, I have received an email from Aerologic.
My main concern is about taxes.
Because it nothing says about it.
Only Annual Salary figures. They only mentioned free taxes for the perdiem. So I am guessing those Annual Salaries are before taxes.

They also not say a clue about pension, medical, etc.

If it is before tax my figures are:

average annual salary for FOs gross: E 71,250
Taxes (30%????): E 21,375
Net Salary: E 50,000

No mention bonus or nothing extra, that means:
E50,000 / 13 salaries = E 3846 = U$D 5960

This is not so good for buying a ticket from Asia or the sandpipe to
Leipzig.


Terms & Conditions


Annual Salary – Line Pilots

• Commander: up to a maximum of € 159.000
• First Officer: From € 52.500 - to € 90.000
• Second Officer: From € 45.000 - to € 50.000

All salaries will increase at a rate of € 2.500 per year of employment until the maximum salary of the employment group is reached.



Additional Compensation

Largely tax- free per diem at a rate of € 2.- per hour paid from start to end of duty at Leipzig

Collective bonus depending on overall company performance



Phase in into AeroLogic pay scale / Starting salary

Direct Entry Commander
• Type Rated B777 and TRI/E on B777: € 156.500
• Type Rated B777: € 154.000
• Wide Body Commander and TRI/E: € 154.000
• Wide Body Commander: € 151.500

First Officers
Depending on experience from: € 52.500 - to € 65.000

First Officer designated for accelerated Command: € 85.000
Must have (at time of actual upgrade):
5000 h on Jet Transport over 50 t incl. 1500 h wide body / long range incl. 500 h B777
or
5000 h on Jet Transport over 50 t incl. 1000 h B777

Second Officer
This program is not yet implemented at AeroLogic. However it addresses pilots directly from flight school to be assigned as cruise relive pilot on the B777 above FL 200.
€ 45.000



Instructor and Examiners

LTI
Line Training Instructor: € 100,- per leg as LTI up to a maximum of € 700,- per month

TRI
Type Rating Instructor: Monthly fixed allowance of € 500 This includes 4 simulator sessions.
Each additional simulator session € 150
Each flight leg performing LTI duties: € 100
Up to a maximum of € 1.000 per month

TRE
Type Rating Examiner: Monthly fixed allowance € 1.000 This includes 4 simulator sessions.
Each additional simulator session € 250
Each flight leg performing LTI duties: € 100
Up to a maximum of € 2.000 per month
____________________________________________________________ ____




AeroLogic GmbH
Industriestraße 56
04435 Schkeuditz
GERMANY

[longranger777]

Seems there is a rise in the Commander scale. Is the basic still 110.000? :confused:
What about type rated F/Os?
I think 154.000 for DEC is not too bad for a german airline!

[Boeingbuddy]

And Guys
there is a part of your salary tax free (15-20%).The rest has to be taxed.
So if you are married with kids you pay round about 30 % tax and social
insurance.This includes also medical insurance,loss of Job (Arbeitslosengeld) and goverment pension.
I dont think that any Middle East or far East Airline offer you a better deal
(Dollar/Euro).
It all depend of what you want and what you like for your family.
But this is once of the better jobs in Germany.
Maybe you make 500 to 1000 Euros more in the sandpitt or far east, but remember do you have there the same rights as in Germany or Europe or
the same social security.
Just think about it.
:sad:

[Boxshifter]

Ok for those who obviously don’t have the time to read a bit more in this thread I did some calculations again based on the updated figures, yes they increased some.

As the tax system is very complicated those figures might be not correct, but at least should show what to expect to be put into your bank account at the end of the month.

Calculation is based on a single, no kids, assuming that 16,3% of the gross salary each month are paid out tax/social contribution free, to cover working on weekends, legal holidays and during nighttime, standard health insurance (to change to a private health insurance scheme you will have to be above the cap limit of €48.150,00 per year for the last 3 consecutive years). I don’t know how this would be dealt with if you come to Germany from abroad. Based on 12 monthly salaries as nothing is mentioned about a 13th month salary.

Captains:
€110.000,00 gross per year = €9.166,67 gross per month = €5714,11 net per month
€159.000,00 gross per year = €13.250,00 gross per month = €8282,98 net per month

Direct Entry Captain
Type Rated B777 and TRI/E on B777:
€156.500 gross per year = €13.041,67 gross per month = €8.151,93 net per month

Type Rated B777:
€154.000,00 gross per year = €12.833,34 gross per month = €8.020,88 net per month

Wide Body Commander and TRI/E:
€154.000,00 gross per year = € 12.833,34 gross per month = €8.020,88 net per month

Wide Body Commander:
€151.500,00 gross per year = €12.625,00 gross per month = €7.889,82 net per month


First Officer:
€52.000,00 gross per year = €4.333,33 gross per month = €2.653,16 net per month
€90.000,00 gross per year = €7.500,00 gross per month = €4665,57 net per month

First Officer designated for accelerated Command:
€85.000 gross per year = €7.083,34 gross per month = €4.403,38 net per month


Second Officer:
€45.000,00 gross per year = €3.750,00 gross per month = €2.317,01 net per month
€50.000,00 gross per year = €4.166,67 gross per month = €2.558.46 net per month


Per diem:
If you assume for a typical German “old” standard contract 42 days of vacation per year, 10 off days at home base per months, I come up to about €720,00 per month “largely” tax free, assuming 15 duty days a month, however this seems to be on the high side to me.

Make your own assumption, if these figures are good or bad or good or bad in particular for German standards!

Again, figures are only rough assumptions and can not be guaranteed as I am not a tax advisor.

[longranger777]

I think it's a bit strange that an upgraded F/O gets the basic 110k, and a DEC gets 154k or 157k (with rating) upon beginning. Is this really fair?
With 110k you have to work almost 20 years to get to the 159k!!! :=

[Angel`s Playmate]

To Cosmiccomet:

- It`s BEFORE tax ! :{

To Boeingbuddy:

-You have the same rights in Germany/Europe as in Dubai or anywhere else in the world , if the outfit goes belly up ! NIL :{

To Longranger777:

-Hit it. You see 159k in 20 years. So no one of the DEC`s is gonna see it anyway !:{

To Boxshifter:

-Extremly close to the naked truth !:ok:

[hetfield]

Captains:
€110.000,00 gross per year = €9.166,67 gross per month = €5714,11 net per month


:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Never ever!:\

[Memphis Belle]

Everyone rejects Aerologic and the possibility to work there, but why do they still get drowned in applications of rated guys from Mideast?

They discussion here is misleaded, if only pointing to the net salaries, which indeed is difficult to calculate.
Don´t forget - the taxes in Germany might be high nominally, but they´re much lower, considering the actual taxes, paid at the end of the year and the reimbursed taxes after making the annual tax consolidation (Einkommensteuererklärung).
With all legal measures even a good earning commander will have an effective tax rate of less than 30%, and overall deductions of max ~45%.

Beyond that, for those, interested in living in Leipzig or it´s vicinity, life there is among the cheapest in Europe, forget DXB-like inflation, doubling your supermarket bill each year, to get a wonderful Art Nouveau Flat of 100sqmeters will cost you less than 800€, with parks nearby, uncensored culture of its best as well as all the basic human rights, any expat in DXB is dreaming of.
No fears of anyone, listening to your phone calls, no internetsites blocked, no company, showing you each day, that you´re just a tolerated expat, ´cause they need you. And for the singles among you - nice and beautiful girls!!
Many things, which can´t be expressed in money.....

[EAM]

The diskussion is absolutly useless, most guys here dont have a JAR licence or the right to work in the EU, anyway around 9 CPT, some TRI/TRE have already resigned from LTU and will be joining Aerologic, some more to come plus F/Os some with enough experiance to start the command course soon.
So Aerologic will be fine, just keep talking, it wont change a thing.

[tom744]

guess you are one of them who did not get an invitation for interview.....if you don't like it, why bother?

[EAM]

@tom744, dont know who you mean, but I did not even apply to Aerologic.

[tom744]

@EAM,
sorry for fingertrouble,
I intended to adress Angel's playmate....

@Memphis Belle
absolutely right...

about net salary in Germany it's difficult; no it's impossible to make a general statement but in my case, with my applicable deductions (assuming 151,5 k p.a. as a DEC) I earn more than I do now in one of the best expad contracts in Asia thanks to the low US-dollar.
Well, that might change with time, but who knows?
Everybody needs to do his own maths.
If you probably got 1 or 2 kids, married and own a property in Germany you might be better off with Aerologic, as a single and no kids be prepared to pay 40% - 45% income tax.:ouch:

[Smeagels Boyfriend]

I've heard that DHL are interviewing in East Midlands next week for Leipzig based First Officers. Is this for aerologic or are DHL basing a UK reg'd 75 over there?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

757, lots of jobs for F/O's but based LEJ :\

[Smeagels Boyfriend]

Assuming not commutable then? Don't know much about the DHL setup and interaction between UK and Brussels but do you have you any idea why they interviewing UK based pilots for that. Shirley no one is going to want to go to Leipzig. Whats the roster like?

[Boeingbuddy]

tom 744 you are right.Looking forward to see you back in Germany.

[FliegerTiger]

People do want to go to Leipzig.

And don't call me Shirley.

(Sorry, couldn't resist!) :}

[Smeagels Boyfriend]

I knew someone had to bite, couldn't resist teeing it up either!!! Didn't mean my comment (re Leipzig) to be disrespectful in any way, it's one of the few places i havn't been with my current employer and looks nice. Was just wondering why DHL are interviewing in East Midlands for F/O positions based Leipzig though? I know this is a bit of topic but any idea's of F/O roster pattern, routes. Also is it UK contract and tax with possibility of moving back to East Mids?. (Sorry Aerologicerererers won't take long and we'll be back on topic!!!)

[Mr Angry from Purley]

smeagal

there is a distinct lack of German National copilots applying, i think the pilot market is different to the UK, although i stand to be corrected. The current offering is £ with UK tax. Rosters I can't comment on, and moving back to EMA is a possibility in the short - medium - long term, depends when you come in, what happens tommorrow, the price of fish etc.
And finally when you make Command, guess where you'll be based. :\

[sapco2]

Not surprising to hear about the lack of German takers.

Folk need to know exactly where they stand with regard to salaries and tax. The city gurus seem fairly convinced the £ will sink by another 20% against an already strong Euro. This makes the UK a very attractive cost centre for the parent company but the downside is that it will prove troublesome to those UK salary earners trying to juggle day to day living expenditure in Europe.

[Iver]

What is current experience for FOs and SOs who are being hired? Do anyone know what minimum experience for successful applicants has been so far? Obviously very experienced pilots applying. Just want to know (beyond stated minimums) what has been successful for newhire FOs in terms of hours and aircraft types (737/A320, turboprops, military). Have primarily LTU or Air Berlin pilots been offered interviews?

I would think experienced CargoLux FOs might be interested since upgrade time might be faster at AeroLogic. So, what is latest info on AeroLogic interviews?

[ATLUX]

Last night the already announced FAQs came in:

Have a look!



Frequently Asked Questions – Pilot Recruitment


What is the salary scale at AeroLogic?
The annual salary ranges from € 45.000, (for Second Officers) to maximum of € 90.000 (for First Officers). The top salary for commanders is € 159.000. The annual pay rise is € 2.500 for all posi-tions until the maximum for that rank is reached.

How will AeroLogic incorporate me into the salary scale?
For the “Start-up” phase we have defined a system to incorporate experienced pilots into our salary scale. We consider your background as a B777 or wide body pilot and your experience as TRI/E.

At present I am an instructor/examiner. Are these positions available at AeroLogic?
Generally yes. However, although we consider your background as instructor/examiner for the incorporation in into our pay scale, the appointment for one of these positions will be considered individually.

Is the base salary liable for taxation? Are tax exemptions possible?
Due to the night and weekend duty, our pilots are entitled to certain tax exemptions. Final details regarding the amount, however, must still be clarified with the local tax office. We hope to achieve a tax-free allowance of up to 20% of the base salary, which is in line with the industry standard.

How does AeroLogic reward special assignments and performance?
AeroLogic provides a generous base salary that covers more working days than are to be ex-pected. This will remain for the “Start-Up” phase, which will run for approximately 3-4 years. Following this stage, performance-orientated packages will enable individuals to either increase or decrease their working hours and salary respectively.

Can I work part-time?
Although part-time work during the “Start-Up” phase of the company is not planned, future plans for such work will be considered.



QUANTITATIVE AND QUALITATIVE BENEFITS

What can AeroLogic offer besides a salary?
AeroLogic will operate the B777F, a state-of-the-art high-performance aircraft with the lowest envi-ronmental impact compared to other aircraft types. The two global concerns Lufthansa/Cargo and Deutsche Post/DHL Express offer both security of employment and a secure working environment. A comparable working environment in an attractive place such as Germany is currently not available anywhere else in the world.

Will the two shareholders also offer benefits for AeroLogic employees?
This has not yet been agreed. The first steps have been made towards an Interline agreement with Lufthansa German Airlines, however as a cargo airline, we are unable to offer any service in return.

Can family accompany me on my flights?
No.

Can I transfer my current corporate pension plan to AeroLogic?
No. However, in addition to the obligatory contributions to the statutory pension insurance plan, AeroLogic offers a separate and attractive tax- sheltered deferred compensation programme. For this we are working together with the Lufthansa subsidiary Albatros.

Will AeroLogic take over my Loss of Licence insurance?
No. A voluntary occupational disablement insurance specifically for airline employees will be offered on attractive terms by the Lufthansa subsidiary Albatros.


Can AeroLogic assist me with my relocation to Leipzig?
A number of AeroLogic employees have already relocated from various locations around Germany to Leipzig. There is, therefore a lot of information available regarding good residential areas and appropriate prices. These colleagues will be able to give advice and provide you with information. A relocation expense reimbursement is not planned.


What can Leipzig offer as a location?
Leipzig is a beautiful, well-kept city with a lot of culture, an exciting night life and good infrastructure. With 500.000 inhabitants, Leipzig can be compared in size to that of Düsseldorf or Stuttgart. The state-of-the-art airport Leipzig/Halle offers an excellent working environment.


Will AeroLogic pay the type rating costs?
Yes. AeroLogic will pay the type rating costs for the pilots. In return, they must agree and sign a 3 year “Training Bond” which will be reduced pro rata each year.

How long is the probationary period?
The probationary period of six months begins after the final checkout on line.

How long will the dismissal protection be effective?
The dismissal protection is subject to the mandatory legal requirements and therefore accumulates as the length of the employee’s service increases. In addition to the legal requirement, AeroLogic will provide an extended cover for further months. The exact extent of this, however, is still to be determined.

How long is the period of continued payment in case of illness?
Our regulations are in line with the legal requirements.

Will I receive a company car?
Although there is the possibility to take private advantage of the competitive company car leasing conditions, a company car as such will not be provided.
Will all pilots receive their own PC?
Yes.

ROSTER AND ASSIGNMENT PLANNING

How stable is the roster?
DHL Express is responsible for weekdays 1-5. This is a scheduled flight operation and therefore inherently stable. The LH Cargo operation will also be planned around a fixed programme so that the AeroLogic flight plan on days 6 -7 is also that of a scheduled operation.


Who designates the flight plan and can this influence the air traffic in any way?
The customer designates the flight plan – i.e. DHL Express and LH Cargo. AeroLogic will, how-ever, in agreement with the customers, always try to seek possible improvements with route optimisation and aircraft utilisation. With these come cost improvements for our customers and an even higher level of future security for our organisation.

How stable are the work schedules and how often are they produced?
Due to the fact that we expect the flight plans to be stable, the work schedules are also expected to be stable. The schedules will be planned for each month and sent by E-Mail, at the latest, in the last week before the scheduled month.

To what extent am I able to formulate my own work schedules?
As a rule, the work schedules are simply assigned to each pilot. Nevertheless, to a certain extent, the crew planning is able to take wishes and requests into consideration. Holidays and off-days can certainly be requested.

How, when and how many vacation or off-days can be requested?
AeroLogic will set up a simple request system for vacation and off-days. The manager for crewplanning is not yet on board and therefore we do not want to make any final statements regarding the exact concept. As a rule, the legal minimum for off-days is guaranteed as per (2. DVO/EU Ops-Subpart Q). At least 120 off-days per year and four consecutive days per month, however, are to be expected.
Annual holiday is calculated according to pilot age: 40 days for pilots older than 40, 35 days for pilots aged between 30 and 40, and 28 days for pilots younger than 30.

How often will I be away for longer than a week?
Under normal circumstances, this is not to be expected. During the “Start-Up” phase, however, we are unable to guarantee this. Nevertheless, long periods away are not planned to be a permanent feature.

Will my free time be respected or am I to expect constant unplanned work schedule changes at short notice?
We aim to encourage an individual and fair environment for all AeroLogic employees. Everyone can expect that both a level of operational readiness in critically operational times will be required but respect for the individual’s private life will be guaranteed.



TRAINING AND TYPE RATING

How long does the type rating training take?
8 Weeks.

How often will the training/instruction take place?
4 training and 2 instruction blocks will take place each year. The long term plan is to carry out the training with Lufthansa Flight Training in Berlin.



COMPANY AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT POSSIBILITIES

How is quality expressed at AeroLogic?
Quality is expressed through a punctual and safe operation. It is also expressed through satisfied and motivated employees, who are highly trained and dedicated to setting a high standard for the company.

How are the growth prospects at AeroLogic?
Within the first two years the AeroLogic fleet will increase to eight new aircraft. The initial planned fleet size is eleven aircraft; further growth will be dependent on AeroLogic performance efficiency and the market demand from our customers DHL and LH Cargo.

Are both shareholders interested in AeroLogic for the long term?
Both shareholders acknowledge the need for a cost-efficient production platform and have both signed long-term supply agreements with AeroLogic. Furthermore, provided that the AeroLogic operation proves successful, their interest is expected to increase rather than decrease.

What kind of professional development prospects do I have with AeroLogic?
The professional development prospects are, as with all newly founded companies, superb. Each person has therefore the chance to prove their ability and potential and have to opportunity to advance into available positions within the company.


Does AeroLogic plan to hire experienced pilots with type rating in the future?
After the “Start-Up” phase, it is expected that only young second and first officers will be appointed. If the operational and/or economical need arises, however, it will be discussed with the existing AeroLogic employees beforehand. If no other alternative is available, experienced pilots will again be hired by the company.

Will AeroLogic offer pilot bases in other countries?
AeroLogic is based in Leipzig and alternative bases for pilots are not currently planned.


How does communication within AeroLogic take place? How often will the pilots be informed about the economic development of the company and from whom?
Internet communication platforms will be set up which will allow up-to-date information exchange. Personal contact is of particular importance to management and as a result, personal meetings will take place several times a year.

Does AeroLogic need to comply with the DHL and/or LH guidelines and procedures?
AeroLogic is an independent company with their own corporate culture and self- determined operational methods. We will, however, not dismiss any good solutions developed by DHL and/or LH.
:cool:

[Machpointeightfour]

Would anybody who have been to the screening lately care to give some details??

From what I´ve heard there should have been a selection in the begining of May.

Regards.

[MaxBlow]

Have heard from a friend who's been there for an interview that they hire for aircraft #7 and #8 already.

Most of the left seat guys are retired from other German companies ( getting they 'high' DE salary only for a few years).

To keep it cheap they plan to promote the FOs asap and pay them the lowest capt. salary (they'll make the same as the DE after ONLY 25 years of service).

Quick command for some guys ? YES.

Competitive conditions? Sorry, but NO (no LoL, pension fund,a funny pdm sys, 12 month salary etc.)

Your choice

[joe two]

AeroLogic to Lufthansa is what OpenSkies is to BA .

Nobody is really complaining though (or planning a strike) .

I wonder if there is a difference , that has slipped my mind ?

[Best foot forward]

Apart from the fact LH are predominantly a pax airline and AL are cargo, and they are supposedly half DHL.

[Nightcargo]

Does anyone know if they filled all the vacancies with the applications they already have?

I noticed on their website that they are not accepting any more applications at the moment?

[DutchBird-757]

All positions for F/O's currently taken. Next round of interviews (f/o's) will be in around 12-18 months time. They said to me that I can expect an invite for an interview in about 12 months from now.

[Denti]

AeroLogic to Lufthansa is what OpenSkies is to BA .

Nobody is really complaining though (or planning a strike) .

I wonder if there is a difference , that has slipped my mind ?

It is not very openly advertised at the moment. But the union representatives are working very hard on that topic allready. After all they have a scope clause that works on every company where Lufthansa has a stake of 50% or more.

The Aerogolic situation is a part of very big package including the current Embraer problems and inclusion of Lufthansa Cityline into mainline or at least introduction of mainline conditions for Cityline as well as current problems with a possible deal between TUI and Lufthansa about Germanwings and Tuifly.

Expect a pretty hot summer for all LH passengers.

[wiseoldowl]

Hello everyone!

I have been invited for a screening (as a FO) at th end of June.
It's durring 2 days, first day tests and the second day a simcheck in the 737NG.

Can anyone give me some info on what kind of tests we can expect?

thx

[flyneo]

Any news for the screening ? Have they hired some pilots ?

Thx in advance,

flyneo