Britain urged to love a man in uniform again

[LFFC]

From The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3257655.ece) today:


THE government is to sweep away curbs on servicemen and women wearing uniforms off duty in public as part of a drive to boost popular support for the armed services.

A report commissioned by Gordon Brown to honour those serving in Afghanistan and Iraq will say all service personnel should be encouraged to wear their uniforms on leave.

[BEagle]

"The review also wants Whitehall staff to wear uniforms on days other than Remembrance Sunday"

So - back to wearing uniform at Main Building? At least it'd make it obvious how many civil serpents now inhabit the place!

[Whirlygig]

Britain urged to love a man in uniform again

Again ??????? Can't wait!!

Cheers

Whirls

[Al R]

Anything that the wretched turncoat Quentin Davies is involved with, has to be tainted from the outset.

<<Davies, whose father served in the RAF in the second world war, added: “There should be more exposure to the military. We are not going to recommend people are ordered to wear uniforms on leave. It is a question of encouragement by example.”>>

Perhaps he could also suggest that the military be more exposed to its Secretary of State? As an aside, he replied to me last month thus;

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n239/thrust_01/IMG_2034.jpg

Interesting. He only knows Des 'reasonably well', yet well enough it seems, to observe that Browne packs more than a week's work into a single week. Fascinating. The Secretary of State for Defence has worked out how to bend the laws of physics. Perhaps he also gives the job.. '110%'?

[Jimlad1]

"At least it'd make it obvious how many civil serpents now inhabit the place!"

Actually Beags I'm going to have to burst your bubble, the total CS population of MB is a little over half (roughly 2000 of the 4000 odd that work there). Bearing in mind that most of this lot are admin clerks, security guards, cleaners and so on, I'm afraid that most of the people working there in a defence policy capacity will be in uniform.


EDIT - having read the article, there appears to be some confusion with BA - they already offer a 10% discount to military personnel, despite claims to the contrary in the report.

[blogger]

Boost support.... just fell off my perch reading that.

The Forces do not require support from the general public boosting


THEY NEED SUPPORT FROM THE DAMN GOVERNMENT FIRST.


As for wearing uniform in public I never left the station between 1988 and 2007 wearing it I always took it off.

If it rained at least my own clothes would keep me dry in Winter.
And in Summer I was cool no darn head dress to wear.

When I cleared every single item went back to clothing stores the guy there asked me don't you want to keep any of this.............NO I DON'T.

:)

[VinRouge]

Does this mean squaddies returning from tours in the sandy place will actually be allowed to walk round BAA airports without being told they are scaring people?:suspect:

[Green Flash]

Does this mean squaddies returning from tours in the sandy place will actually be allowed to walk round BAA airports without being told they are scaring people?

Good call, Vin! Will be very interesting to see how HMG square this with the airport operators, etc!;)

[3 bladed beast]

Oh good - this should tie in nicely with the loss of all our personal data on the laptop!!

Now there will be no problems in recognising, and in extremes, targeting us.

Well, at least the ladies will love us....(again?)

[reynoldsno1]

Does this mean you can get to ride in London black cabs for free again?

[AlJH]

Bl:mad:dy hell guys. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, a supporter of the Labour government. However, they do something like this to encourage the public to respect the services (granted there may be an alterior motive). You complain when the government tries to improve the civvy-mil relationship. To be honest, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place with you.

[BEagle]

I see no complaints...

Whilst I detest NuLabor, I get the feeling that El Gordo is a lot more of a down-to-earth chap than that meeja-luvvy attention-seeking POS Bliar!

As a reasonably-frequent airline traveller, I'd be honoured by the presence of British Servicemen/peeps at the airport or on board my flight.

[dallas]

AlJH

I'm not sure dicking everyone who returns from a det with a parade is anything other than yet another zero-cost, lip service-paying reaction to a more fundamental issue. As usual it'll be the blokes paying the bill when they're told to re-assemble at HQ 48hrs after getting back from a 6-monther, so the local mayor and Lord Lt can patronise them.

TV like the Ross Kemp show is much more what people want and relate to.

[chiglet]

The curbs were introduced almost 30 years ago during the IRA’s bombing campaign on mainland Britain when military personnel were warned not to wear uniforms off duty

Complete and utter 8ollocks.... I used to "hitch" from Patrington [near Hull] to Manchester, in 1967...we were then told "No Uniform" [in early 1968]...So it is 40 years ago, that the "ban" was slapped down.
BTW, my son is a serving Police Officer.......The "pubic" aren't encouraged to give him a cheer......:mad:
watp,iktch

[blogger]

BEagle (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=6981) As a reasonably-frequent airline traveller, I'd be honoured by the presence of British Servicemen/peeps at the airport or on board my flight.

BEagle (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=6981) What a load of tosh ........Oh look at me I'm a serviceman. Stand out and get the first shot your way read the advice below. NEVER WEAR UNIFORM ON FLIGHTS.

1. Travel with an airline that has no or few political enemies.
http://www.krug.org/unit/images/757.jpg
2. Do not wear Army or ex-Army clothing.
3. Do not carry on your luggage in Army issue bags or rucksacks.
4. If the plane is hijacked, keep quiet and don't draw attention to yourself.
5. Observe the terrorist's activities very carefully. If you do escape, you'll be able to help secure forces.
6. Stay in tourist class. 'Neutral' seating in tourist class is less likely to attract attention than first class. If the terrorists wish to show their determination, they may shoot hostages, and these are likely to have been chosen from passengers who are obviously important.
7. If kept in close quarters with a hijacker, talk about your own and his family. Making yourself a real, normal person in his eyes will be better. Don't talk politics.
8. If you can feign symptoms of sickness and keep it up, you may be released in an interim deal.
9. Don't wear religious or other insignia. The hijackers may not share your beliefs! No T-shirts with political slogans either!
10. Travel in loose, comfortable clothing. If you are hijacked you'll have to keep yourself cool, clean and healthy for some time. Play mind games to keep yourself sane.
11. Don't carry military documents on board. Pack them in your main luggage. If a hijacker finds out you're connected, you'll be singled out for rough treatment.
12. If the aircraft you are on is hijacked the best way to stay alive is not to attract attention. When hijackers make their move, they are looking for opposition. Anyone who looks like they're trying to stop them is likely to be shot.
13. Keep your eyes open, your mouth shut... and don't volunteer for anything!

[blogger]

Robert Dean Stethem (November 17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_17), 1961 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961) – June 15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_15), 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985)) was a United States Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) Seabee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seabee) diver who was murdered by terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist) during the hijacking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_hijacking) of the commercial airliner he was aboard TWA Flight 847 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_847). His Navy rating was Steel Worker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_Worker_%28US_Navy%29) Second Class (SW2).
Robert Stethem was born in Waterbury, Connecticut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterbury%2C_Connecticut), but grew up in the Pinefield section of Waldorf, Maryland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf%2C_Maryland). He was one of three children. His two brothers and his father also served in the U.S. Navy, all of whom were Navy SEALs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEALs). His mother was a civilian Navy administrator. He graduated from Thomas Stone High School in 1980 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980), where he played defensive back on the varsity and junior varsity football (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_football) teams. He joined the Navy shortly after graduating.
In the Navy, he was assigned to the Navy Underwater Construction Team No. 1 in Norfolk, Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk%2C_Virginia). He was returning from an assignment in Nea Makri, Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nea_Makri%2C_Greece) aboard TWA Flight 847 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_847) when it was hijacked by members of the Lebanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon) terrorist organization Hizbullah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah). They demanded the release of 766 Lebanese and Palestinian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian) prisoners held by Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel).
When their demands were not met, Stethem was singled out. The hijackers learned he was a member of the U.S. military. They beat and tortured him. Then, they shot him and dumped his body on the tarmac at the Beirut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beirut) airport.
One of the hijackers Mohammed Ali Hammadi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Ali_Hammadi), was arrested two years later in Frankfurt, Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt%2C_Germany). He was tried and convicted of Stethem's murder. He was sentenced to life in jail. Three others, Imad Mugniyah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imad_Mugniyah), Hassan Izz-Al-Din (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Izz-Al-Din) and Ali Atwa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Atwa) were eventually indicted for their involvement in the incident. In 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002), they were added to the FBI Most Wanted Terrorists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_Most_Wanted_Terrorists) list.
Mohammed Ali Hammadi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Ali_Hammadi) was paroled in December of 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005) and returned to Lebanon. It is speculated that he was released in a prisoner swap in exchange for the release of Susanne Osthoff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susanne_Osthoff), who was kidnapped in Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) one month earlier.
Stethem was posthumously awarded the Purple Heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart) and Bronze Star (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Star_Medal). He is buried in Arlington National Cemetery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_National_Cemetery). In 1994 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994), the U.S. Navy launched USS Stethem (DDG-63) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stethem_%28DDG-63%29) in his honor. There is a sports complex named in his honor on Piney Church Road, in the center of which is a large stone memorial to Stethem, above which a U.S. flag flies.
Robert D. Stethem Memorial Park includes 10 ball fields, two of which have 90-foot infields; the complex is the main complex for Waldorf American and Waldorf National Little Leagues. It was opened in 1990 and boasts a memorial stone 75 yards from Stethem's memorial, which includes a tribute plaque to several former Waldorf players, as well as local umpires and district officials who have lost their lives.

[Grimweasel]

Most of what 'they' (the focus group, MP, Air Cdre and high ranking civil servant) suggested meant more work for the forces' personnel returning from Ops. The focus should be what the public can do for us and not opening up bases / stations needlessly bothering the occupants!

Things like free FA Cup tickets or discount at theme parks for forces families (although Alton Towers already offers one) etc should be on the agenda.

I said that with the UK populous being diluted by the influx of so many other cultures since WWII the 'ideal' that everyone arks back to (post WWII) has been lost forever. With the closure of so many RAF Stations in great parts of the UK, unless you live on the A1, Jo Public will rarely come across an Airmen! The same goes for the Army and the loss of the regional infantry regiments; great swathes of the UK now have no regionally biased regiment.

Ethnic recruiting in the forces is dismal; why would a Muslim want to join a military currently engaged in conflict with his religious homelands? Therefore, huge parts of the UK are alienated against and have little/no contact with the forces!

[blogger]

BEagle (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=6981) what date did you leave the forces........ Bet you went home in your No 1 home dress kit bag in hand.

[BlackadderIA]

Blimey Blogger - you're a cheery chap aren't you?
I always carry my I.D Card even when on a civvy flight. Does this mean that the terrorists are going to single me out during those oh so frequent hijackings (and maybe make me sit in row 1 so I hit the building before all the civvies seated behind me)?

I'm all for a bit more uniform being seen in public - I once applied for a bank loan in full uniform and the guy asked me for my occupation (he said he had no idea what it meant).

[BEagle]

The last date I had to wear uniform I drove home quietly through the countryside reflecting to myself how badly the RAF had gone downhill over the previous 2-3 years.....

I wondered quite why I'd bothered to devote all my time and energies of the previous 35 years to an organisation which was now so hell-bent on self-immolation. Which hadn't even had the good grace to say thanks.

Then, the next day I got stuck into a civilian job. Hourly paid, no bull****, no secondary duties and with a tangible outcome to one's effort. It's coming up to 5 years now since I left and, regrettably, the RAF seems to be in a high speed spiral descent to oblivion..... Will it actually see its 100th anniversary?

blogger, you are a charmer, aren't you....

[Lima Juliet]

Blackadder

I am in accord with you old chap - let's wear uniform (all types as well - flying suits for those that have been flying and none of the "No1 and 2 only" nonsense). In fact I have been wearing my uniform coming and going to work for years - I have gaffed off the so-called "security advice" from our Mars Bar wearing friends. I once asked them if I could wear uniform on a civvy flight to Leuchars for a staff visit - the advice was "Yes, you can Sir, for an internal flight, however with the security situation at airports I would advise against it"...I can't think of a safer place in the world than an airport, the Police are armed to the teeth and everyone has to pass through security screening and metal detectors!!!

Anyway, if I now want to collect the family dinner from Waitrose on the way home in uniform at least I will be "authorised" to do so.:ok:

LJ

PS All those people who change to go home - do you really think it makes a difference? DVLA will pass out your details and your name, if you're an officer, your name is in the RAF List. One of these people I know used to be in the BBMF - they used to publish bl@@dy colour brochures with his mug shot in it and then give them to anyone!

[Pontius Navigator]

all service personnel should be encouraged to wear their uniforms on leave.

Is this while hitching on the A1?

Or standing in a crowded smokey corridor of a train, standing room only, full of other happy sailors, soldiers and airmen going home on leave?

Or down the pub, battledress jacket open, rolled beret in the epaulette?

[Roland Pulfrew]

blogger

Are you proud of the fact that you didn't wear uniform and by your own admission so you can "keep your head cool in the summer". What a complete :mad:

I joined the RAF in the early 80s and apart from a tour in the Ivory Towers have worn uniform throughout. Anyone who was naive enough to think that the IRA didn't have a good surveillance system in the 80s was living in cloud cuckoo land. If they wanted to hit a serviceman they would, whether you pretended to disguise yourself or not.

It is time that we got back into the habit of wearing uniform in public, and in particular back in MOD. It might remind some of the civil serpants just who they are supposed to be working for and with!!

[Uncle Ginsters]

Blogger, that would have been great advice if a certain group of Arabic buddies hadn't started crashing airliners right after the hijack... when was the last Beirut-style hijack since 9/11?

Things have changed, and continue to change.

[buoy15]

Foolish Knaves - beware a giver of kind words in deed

"What task is this I behold? - to appear in public and attend to my duty in cloth so befitting my station as to reward me with no allowances of "MUFFTI" I'm told"

"Sorry Shakespear rake, Gordon's spotted another Stealth tax take":*

[Fast but Safe]

Roland (and all who agree with him), can I suggest you take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

The Security Service MI5 have recently told the public through open documents and briefings that they are 'overstretched' (unlike the Armed Forces who are only 'stretched'), and can not carry out the necessary surveillance on known Muslim extremists in this country. By the way, we are not talking about 40 or 50 individuals, the number is in the THOUSANDS.

So in the light of what I have just said, and the fact a plot to kidnap and kill a British serviceman has already been foiled, I have a question for you.

If, God forbid, someone was compromised because they were wearing uniform in the street. Would you be happy to stand in front of a funeral service and tell everyone 'I want all service personnel to carry on being seen in uniform in public as much as possible' ? Or are you happy to keep your standpoint until something does happen and then re-asses. Because I for one would rather air on the side of caution.

We're not playing about here guys. This is not just a case of PR or doing 'the right thing'. I'd rather be anonymous any day than have my address noted and sent off somewhere nasty.

FbS.

[backTOfront]

Have we not forgotten that the terrorists already probably have our names, addresses, bank details on god knows what else that was on the missing laptop?

Anyone travelling through Waterloo station on a Friday or Sunday night can spot the squaddies/ memebers of the forces a mile away! We are kind of noticable with the haircuts and all. If we want to truelly blend in then the forces should go SAS style and have what ever hair style we want and be allowed to sprout weird and wonderful facial hair! Just a thought.

[Ivan Rogov]

Virtually every terrorist organisation considers military personnel as legitimate targets, they will always seek out the easy target. You can not "spot squadies" a mile off you can only assume, by wearing uniform in public you become a confirmed target. Concentrations of service folk outside the wire become obvious, as do patterns of movement, etc. You might not be the victim, but you could well set the pattern that leads to an attack.
The risk may be low, but it is there and should not be ignored. The principle is the same as flight safety, reduce the risk as much as possible, there is no magic answer but not wearing uniform in public reduces the risk.
There are those who don't think there is any threat, choose to ignore it or think it will not happen to them, but many have learnt the hard way over the last past 50 odd years. Just because you can not see it doesn’t make it real.

Why don't terrorists wear uniform, oh yeah it makes them easy to spot :ugh:

[Pontius Navigator]

I see from the Torygraph - more public parades and more Open Days.

I guess the Spirit of Adventure is a dead duck and the traditional station open days may return, provided the beannies keep their hands out of the till.

Mind you the parades might have to be in columns of 3 with the centre file hollow. The 4-ship scramble might have to be a singleton or pair at best. Unless we can get some former Soviet air force to step in, with Bears perhaps?

[GPMG]

Used to make me laugh that during my period of service, the wearing of uniform was strictly banned.

However just waiting at Paddington Station in the 90's at about 7:00pm and watch the blokes with grade 4 on top grade 1-2 on the sides, standing in groups or walking with hands almost clenched as if on a parade square, full of confidence, and watching everyone and everything. Hmm I wonder what they do for a living.

Shame as I think I may have managed to increase my 'cricket score' if I had been allowed to travel about with my Green Lid on.

[Wader2]

You can not "spot squadies" a mile off you can only assume,

The only proviso I would make would be "all".

GPMG has the size of it.

It is quite fun doing a squaddie spot. As ha says, 'Paddington'. Basically any rail station near an airfield, barracks, docks or whatever. I don't know about the pusser's suitcase anymore but the 'new' non-RAF blue holdall is one dead giveaway.

The lack of any military clothing in a group is another - no DPM trousers and trainers. Then there may be the odd T-shirt or tattoo.

Once saw 4 of the shush, you know who, doing what we were doing "tickets on departure" at Heathrow. Not a beer gut in sight, all suntanned and all but invisible.

OK, maybe we can spot these things and Joe Public can't.

[Gainesy]

Its not just the haircuts. Military bearing--stands out a mile, so unlike the average slouching civvy scruff..

[The Helpful Stacker]

but the 'new' non-RAF blue holdall is one dead giveaway.


Ah the 'blow me up bag', designed to match the 'blow me up bus', the preferred method of discrete transport.:rolleyes:

[goudie]

Remember when travelling from Lincoln to Kings X in the 50's, stopping at Grantham and Cranwell Cadets boarding the train in 'civvies'. To a man they were wearing , either Harris tweed sports jacket, cavalry twill trousers, Vyella shirt, woollen tie, and pork pie hat, or blazer RAF badge & tie!

[Jumping_Jack]

I wonder if 'Horrids' will change their policy of no shopping in uniform!;)

[Zoom]

goudie
Reminds me of an RAF friend who did an exchange tour as an instructor at Sandhurst. His cadets had spent the whole day on manoeuvres running through the trees with camouflage gear and rifles, then repaired to the mess tent for dinner. He was surrounded by cadets all sporting the kind of identical gear you mentioned, and one said to my pal, 'Sir, it's so good to be out of uniform at last.'

[Roland Pulfrew]

FbS

Yes, I would. If anyone wishes to go undercover (and as many have already said - they aren't that undercover) I have no problem with that, it is personal choice. I just say that I have no problem with wearing uniform in public, its not just about PR its about reminding the general population, particularly the MPs and civil servants, that we exist. We should not hide away and we should be proud of what we do. Sometimes you do have to do what is right!

In a previous life I was lucky enough to visit a number of MODs around Europe, ME and the States, including in countries where there was a terrorist threat against their military, and their military wore uniform in public and in the MOD. If we are hidden, we have lost!

And if you think driving out of a military base to your home address prevents someone from a. working out you are in the military b. stops someone from following you and c. protects your home address then you are also naive.

[JagRigger]

I had to go to hospital whilst on shift as Guard Commander - it's amazing how much general respect you get - and how quickly you get seen standing around in No 3's.;)

[goudie]

Visit any town in the 'States' that has a Military Establishment nearby and men and women can be seen everywhere in uniform. As a Nation, with a strong military identity, we do seem to have become very unsure of ourselves.

[DarkBlueLoggie]

Early '90s on exercise with the Picket Boats from Dartmouth. Sunday morning and we moor alongside in Totnes. We are all in Combat jackets, lighweights and combat highs - not a stitch of civilian clothing between us. As we've got a couple of hours to spare we're being allowed to go around town before heading back to Dartmouth.

"Right", says the Instructing Officer, "We need to look more civilian. Everyone take off your berets!".

Yes, as though a group of late teens/early 20 year olds wondering around in greens didn't stand out...

[airborne_artist]

"We need to look more civilian. Everyone take off your berets!"

http://www.lamptonparkfc.co.uk/assets/images/frank_spencer.jpg

[JPA-HATER]

While I appreciate the idea of making the military more visible to the general public, the idea of wearing uniform in public is ridiculous. We seem to forget all the lessons learnt from previous years when military personnel were allowed to wear uniform outside of the work environment. You dont see police walk down the street in uniform when off duty, or doctors and nurses. They dont wear uniform for a reason; they stand out and are not always appreciated by the public.
I have been in the military for 26 years (still a member) and fully support all the armed forces however, I believe changing the rules wrt to uniforms in public will prove to be a big mistake.
I take my hat off to Group Captain Ro Atherton, the RAF Wittering station commander, who banned his personnel from wearing uniform in public.
:}
PS -- ANY FREE LIVERPOOL SEASON TICKETS ?????:O

Oh and can I possibly have a mortgage with a 1% interest rate as I am in the military ..............and poor :(:confused:

[HaveQuick2]

JPA-Hater commented
"You dont see police walk down the street in uniform when off duty, or doctors and nurses"

That argument is bogus. The great British public are much more aware of the police/doctors/nurses as they often come into contact with them during their normal life.

The same cannot be said for the military. Generally they keep themselves to themselves, work in locations that the majority of the public do not visit (or even know about), and do NOT interact in any way with the public.

So, the general "unawareness" of the military by the public would be helped if more military uniformed bods were seen in day to day life.

[Pontius Navigator]

OK, so let's wear uniform.

What uniform?

Walk down the high street near wear I work and you will see lots of DPMs. Not one military.

DPMs, must be Army.

What do aircrew wear - growbags. Growbags shopping? Probably not although I did see a tall, tanned, blonde F3 nav shopping in PC World in her growbag; on the pull?

In a Pub at Otterburn in DPMs; publican asked us to sit with 'your friends over there.' Quick glance - pongos - their not our friends. [Nothing against pongos simply we were doing different jobs.] He simply did not want his pub full of soldiers - at Otterburn for goodness sake.

[mystic_meg]

I take my hat off to Group Captain Ro Atherton, the RAF Wittering station commander, who banned his personnel from wearing uniform in public
Obviously your 26 years hasn't included any proper research then...:mad:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafwittering/

[Biggles225]

:eek:JPA-Hater

Didn't they have gals in your day? Max rate grovel to Ro please! :eek:

[ShyTorque]

Britain urged to love a man in uniform again


Oh goody...... :ok:

Damn - it won't fit... :(

[johnny99]

Wear uniform off duty! Sorry but am I missing something here; save for weddings, funerals why would anyone want to wear uniform when off duty. I must be getting old!

[EdSet100]

Wearing uniform while off duty or on leave doesn't mean that we will be encouraged to wear the kit during our days off. The new regulation removes the bar from wearing the kit when dropping into a supermarket while travelling to/from our place of work, travelling in public to a meeting or, for the recruits, travelling home on leave. Its nothing more than that. The regulation against routinely wearing flying suits in public remains in place.

I recently attended a briefing, on my unit, given by an Wg Cdr from Innsworth, who had stayed in our Offs Mess the night before. He was wearing his civvies. The sooner this business stops, the better.

Ed

[johnny99]

"dropping into a supermarket while travelling to/from our place of work, travelling in public to a meeting"

I left just over 12 months ago so things may have changed: was there really such a bar? We did this sort of thing as a matetr of course dropping into service stations etc in uniform as we travelled up teh motorway to and from Wyton/Abbey Wood/station visit etc. I almost feel I should hand my undetected crime badge back!

[EdSet100]

Errm, yes, there was a ban on wearing uniform in public, for many years due to the IRA threat. Most units were allowed to extend the "uniform boundary" a mile or so beyond the wire, where it was sensible to do so. This latest change seeks to remove that ban.

[johnny99]

Always thought that was just advice not an actual ban; then again rules obedience etc etc. Ach well times they are a changing.

[Pontius Navigator]

Johnny, it has been advice, it has also been the rule. It has changed on and off over the last 30+years.

At one point they even said that you could claim your home-to-duty mileage +10% to allow for random changes of route. Mind you, as soon as you tried it handbrake house found reasons why not.

The car rules advice about 20 years ago was pretty comprehensive. I actually saw a woman doing an under-car search in a supermarket car park.

Driving to work in 'mufftee' ie a jacket over the shirt was a laugh. I saw the same faces every day, blue shirt/black tie, going the opposite direction. Even the shootings in the ferry queues at Zeebrugge didn't shake our complacency.

[Green Flash]

Er, any chance of loving a woman in uniform (http://www.kathywest.com/)?!:eek::ok: