Informal heli nights UK (including arrangements)

[Overdrive]

Sounds like 'twas a great evening...

Jumping the gun a bit, but any plans to film any of them, in part or whole?

[paco]

Only if I get repeat fees......

Phil

[DennisK]

Thanks Pruners for the input so far ... I'll be discussing these with Gary and Phil and I guess all ideas will go into the pot for future evenings.

Yes ... this prune site can be a postbox for specific agenda ideas. Taken on board.

Ref Pandalet's query.

I would take the view that our safety evenings are not the place for display flying discussions, which is a form of advanced instruction and outside the original remit. I would be happy to chat for ten minutes or so about such flying as a general interest item, but not to deflect from the main thrust of our meetings. SAFETY.

I would be more interested in discussing the tail rotor failure landing techniques I have been obliged to use ... since as I have often said to my pilots, I believe that the bulk of T/R failure handling can be learned by classroom discussion.

Thanks again to all who travelled to make the Redhill evening such a success, and special thanks to Gary and Phil, plus of course Dave from the Authority.

If the present level of enthusiasm can be maintained, I can't help feeling that in time it must be reflected in greater pilot awareness, particularly of IMC incidents.


Best wishes to all,


Dennis Kenyon.

[VeeAny]

I've written a brief (for me) summary of the Redhill evening, along with some credits. http://www.helicopter-safety.org/redhill.asp

I hadn't realised just how much time this would take up when it was first discussed funnily enough between David Cockburn (the CAA man who so graciously fielded criticism which was totally unrelated to his role at the authority) and I back in 2004 (I dug the emails out earliuer today, to see if we have missed anything).

I think the format proposed by Dennis will be much more appropriate at the second round of these evenings.

To give you an idea of the thinking behind this, we are trying not to turn anyone away from these evenings and I think that with 51 people in attendance, a less guided approach will turn into total mayhem.

I will continue with the current format, for the first few however I think that if numbers reduce the round the table approach would be ideal. I am hardly an expert at presentations to what I consider to be large groups of people, so I thank everyone for bearing with me on Monday.

The Ivory towers went much better than I could have hoped for, more soon on that.

Cheers

Gary

[estepo]

Hi Dennis, Gary, Phil

Unfortunately, I'm based in Spain so I can't practically make the safety evenings.

However, how about a series of 10 minute, subject specific safety briefings - posted on YouTube, and flagged up on Pprune when they're ready.

Inadvertant IMC.....airframe icing........mountain flying.......vortex ring.......TRG failure..........etc,etc.

Not as good as attending in person I grant you, but at least I'd be sober when I was viewing it!

[K48]

DK. We ran out of time... but the tailrotor failure experience and recoveries were of most interest and not touched on at Redhill. I have a question:
How was the practical experience different to the techniques that are taught. (For example, with engine failure recovery techniques it takes a throttle chop to see the shocking rapidity of the RRPM drop in an R22). There must be some elements during TR failure that you would feel need elaborating on - or impressing on- those of us who have not had the experience of a real tailrotor failure?
What was the the run on like?
Plus what are your thoughts on recovery of C.G shift due to a disintegrating/departing TR gearbox? E.g Bell206

[VeeAny]

Estepo

I am not sure that any of us would be youtubeable, however we do plan to split up the safety presentations and put them on the safety site as mini power point presentations, with some embedded videos etc. Some of the slides I cannot release publicly as we have had put quite a bit of effort in to getting hold of the information and I've had to sign my life away to get it, for presentation only behind closed doors and not unfortunately on the web.

Keep an eye on the more specific subject matter on the site, it is being [very slowly] built up.
An example of the LTE material (not powerpointed) is here http://www.helicopter-safety.org.uk/genericaccident.asp?keyword=LTE.

I am doing the same for specific types also such as this for the R44 http://www.helicopter-safety.org.uk/genericaccident.asp?ACType=R44

Any further ideas always gratefully received, but please remember this all a work in progress.

Cheers


GS

[helimutt]

Sorry but I just managed to 'delete' rather than 'edit' the safety evening thread. Sorry bout that but I blame a 2 yr old drivng me nuts!
:{
Oh well, you'll just have to start another one.
:hmm:

[Bravo73]

HM,

It might not be too bad. Can't the Mods recover the thread from the archives?

[VeeAny]

Just in case the thread can't be resurrected this is what we have been up to

www.helicopter-safety.org

There are pages related to the Newcastle (http://www.helicopter-safety.org/newcastle.asp) and Redhill (http://www.helicopter-safety.org/redhill.asp) safety evenings and a whole lot more.

The thread was started by Helimutt after the Gazelle crash at Rudding Park in January, but was to do with helicopter safety and not that crash specifically which has its own thread.

Please post in this one until we get an answer from the mods about whether the old one can be resurrected, they can always add stuff from here to the old if it comes back.

Gary

[Senior Pilot]

All done: that's another beer you owe me, HM ;)

[VeeAny]

Splot

You the man, thank you.

Now HM just promise me you won't ever do a job that requires coordination whilst distracted :rolleyes:. You know we love you really.....

Gary

[JBL99]

Gary, anything planned for the west country yet ?

[VeeAny]

JBL

Yes either Dunkeswell or the Helicopter Museum, ASAP we want to do the first round of these as soon as we can, so watch this space. We are trying to give at least 2 weeks notice for all the locations.

GS.

[helimutt]

Glad to see my 'finger trouble' has been sorted. Bloody kids.

Thanks SP. I'm going to end up buying a lot of beer.

:ok:

[THM]

The Helicopter Museum will have its lecture new theatre completed by the end of the summer. The site also has landing facilities, cheap B&B’s locally, and I am sure they could lay on food. Plus the extra bonus of being able to have a private viewing of the collection and maybe even a guide as well.

[Whirlybird]

Looking at Doncaster 1st or 2nd of May as a possibility also.


Do we know yet if this is happening?

[VeeAny]

Looking unlikely just due to me being in the wrong place, I was due to be in Doncaster overnight that night which and have premises available, but I'll be down near Rutland Water that night unfortunately.

We are trying to get Doncaster(ish) Coventry(ish) and South west done by end of May but rosters and premises availability are the controlling factors at the moment.

We are trying to have dates firmed with at least 2 weeks notice for everyone who is interested.

GS

[Hell pirate]

In bound May from Africa London/ Essex/ South-end on-sea

[K48]

HI Phil,

Any news on that sim night at Wcmbe..?

[DennisK]

Sorry K48 ... for delay in responding to your three queries re T/R failure handling.

Having discussed the item with Gary, the T/R failure exercise is likely to be an agenda item at the next evening. Dunkeswell - Weston-s-Mare or wherever.

I'm sure most PPLs will have studied the exercise and probably practised at some stage of their training. What I would be happy to do, is run through the handling techniques I have used and also those that appear in various PFMs .... but I can see the subject monopolising the evening. Its Gary's excellent show and he will decide what is appropriate at future meetings.

But K48 ... to answer your questions in turn. (But please note, that the following just touches on a broad brush handling principle.) I've published a detailed article on the subject ... see LOOP February 2008 issue. www.loop.aero.

Q1. RRPM decay. The high rate of R22 rrpm decay is well known following rapid reduction of power, but on most types that condition isn't a significant problem, even on the 22.

I teach that in the T/R failure case, we don't really have a T/R problem!! What we have is power plant we cannot fully use! So.

T/R lets go ... rapid yaw (right USA models) left most others.

It isn't necessary to either 'dump the lever or 'chop' the throttle. Just a smooth fairly rapid lowering of lever co-ordinated with throttle closing. The idea is to prevent further yaw. Then re-apply some power to stabilise a 30 degree yaw at 60 knots or so. So rrpm decay is not a major problem.

Q2. Most PFMs permit a 25 knot maximum run-on touch down. With the right training, G/S can usually be reduced to less than 20 knots in nil wind. Skid equipped aircraft.

My first T/R landing was made at 60 kts! (Cranfield 1986) The second at a more reasonable 20 knots. (Biggin Hill 1999.) Both occasions the heli remained upright without damage. (other than the bust T/R)

Q3. I've nil experience of a component departure. It is unlikely that say a B206 would remain controllable with the total loss of the T/R and T/R transmission assemblies. The forward C of G shift would be affected by pax/luggage/fuel/cabin load, and max aft cyclic might possibly control the full nose down condition. Lowering collective does of course worsen that condition. I can offer no advice based on experience on this one .. but sadly I know of three cases where the loss of T/R transmission was fatal.

Sorry ... space and/or occasion doesn't allow the subject to be addressed in detail. No doubt this will be possible with models and diagrams at a future safety evening. I'm happy to put my pennorth in to to open the discussion, since as I have mentioned in an earlier thread, I take the view that 75% of the T/R failure can be taught on the ground!

Being familiar with the basic principles, any reasonably competent pilot should have more than a sporting chance of making a safe landing.

Safe flying to all and look forward to meeting again shortly,

Dennis Kenyon.

[helimutt]

Just a note to the R44 pilot departing xxxxxxxxx today. You may have thought your rearward departure with a quick 180 degree turn was impressive and your zoom climb followed by a nose over probably felt like the Pepsi max for the two of you onboard. I just hope you didn't have a student onboard who will emulate your every move.
It saddens me to think that you might have been instructing but maybe, hopefully, you were SFH'ing and your pax was up for the type of flying displayed.
The people on the ground all said similar, not going to repeat what you were called.:mad:

The R44 isn't designed for pushovers and yes, you might think you are an expert and do it all the time. All I can say is good luck for the future.

PS, was there really any need to have the engine running on the ground, rotors stopped, with you standing outside of the a/c chatting away waiting for your pax to return to the a/c. I can't see the reason for it personally.


:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Flashover999]

Sounds like the AAIB need to be on standby for this character!:ugh:

Im interested in the comment about leaving the engine running with the blades not turning?? I am presuming that the clutch was dis-engaged but the engine was running?? Even so...there is still friction with the Drive belts and the sheaves on the drive shaft. I wonder how long it will be until the belts fail in flight with some poor unsuspecting Self Fly hirer in command who has to perform an emergency landing (Hopefully) due to the actions of someone who used the aircraft hours or weeks before! Maybe it would be better to name and shame so that the aircraft can be grounded and checked before the next flight????

This is coming from my experience of being involved in a serious accident a few years ago caused by a ticking time bomb in the aircraft caused by another weeks before.

Flash

[Evalu8ter]

The Heli Museum would be an excellent choice, and is well deserving of our patronage. Two weeks notice would be good.

[paco]

I'm hoping to hold the sim evening atWycombe sometime over the next couple of weeks - the week of the 17th I think. Suggested dates to suit all would be appreciated. Everyone will be welcome, but please remember that the primary aim is to get PPL(H)s into the sim to see what it's like in cloud, so time will be limited.

Sorry for the delay - it has been a busy time for me!

Phil

[Need money]

Hi Paco,

Thanks for continuing to arrange these events.

Assuming you are talking the 17th June ?

Since you asked for recommendations - I would prefer the week after if possible, I am on hols until 22nd June.

Regards

[paco]

Ok, noted - got a CRM course on the 23rd there, ande it might fit.

Phil

[Pandalet]

I'm up for the let-the-PPLs-crash-the-sim evening, either the week of the 17th or the 22nd, any evening apart from Fridays is fine. It would be good to get a final date before the end of this week, though, so time allocation can be sorted out.

[Whirlygig]

I'd really like to have a go in the sim as well! However, logistics from Norfolk are tricky so could a date be confirmed soon please? Monday evenings would be best for me.

Cheers

Whirls

[Lord Mount]

may I throw my hat into the ring and express my interest in the sim evening.
Standing by for updates.

LM

[Flyin'ematlast]

Phil

Count me in. :\

Prefer w/c 23rd but will fit in as necessary.

Ian.

[VeeAny]

I am at the CAA on 23rd so could make it along as well that night.

GS

[DennisK]

GS etc.. add me to the list please. Bucks - Herts - Surrey - Kent - Sussex or Motorway accessible.

DennisK

[VeeAny]

Other current plans

Coventry shortly prob early July near or at the airport.

Leeds maybe 28th or 29th June if any takers at the airport just need to check the venue is available.

Sorry for being quiet on this i've been away and currently searching for new job as redundant in a month !!

GS

[johned0]

Hi Phil,

Yes please,

John

PS I look forward to having another beer and a chat in the bar as well

[helimutt]

bloody hell that was quick. just pressed 'send'!!!


Can't it be the 27th please? working the sunday on an early!!!! Not good for the social side of things.

Please??


ps, thnk its about time you stopped playing about and got a proper job!

[lucyhoneypot]

What a good idea- can i cheekily come along even though i haven't started training yet?:O We all talk online so much it's probably the sociable natural progression :D
London would be great for me.

[paco]

Lucy - of course you can come along - you're just the person these evenings (sim or not) are supposed to benefit.

helimutt - were you referring to Wycombe?

Looks like the 23rd at Wycombe at the moment - just have to confirm with Heli Services

Phil

[VeeAny]

Phil

Any confirmation yet ?

If there is I'll stick a brief page up on the heli safety site.

GS

[Flingingwings]

Phil,

The offer of 'help' still stands should you need it :ok: (work permitting)

Gary, any news on that 'lead' we discussed??? Not been back 'there' for a couple of weeks but back again soon if you'd like me to remind them :ok:

[Whirlygig]

I'm hoping I can make it for the 23rd!

Cheers

Whirls

[paco]

OK, we're on for the 23rd! Please remember that the sim is a limited resource, and we aim to give as many people as we can around 10-15 mins. Having said that, all are welcome! Somewhere around 1900 at Helicopter services at Booker will do it.

Phil

[iainms]

I would like to come, do I just turn up? im PPL(H)

[paco]

Yeah, just turn up! You need the A404 turn off on the M40 on the other side of the M25 car park, so down the M11, round the top, up the M40 off on to the 4010, follow signs for Booker and if some vandal hasn't turned the sign the wrong way round you should see it on your right after you have crossed over the M40

Phil

[malc4d]

Still on for Monday ?

[VeeAny]

Phil

Sorry I Can't make Monday I am off to Edinburgh now, not back till Tuesday.

For the rest of you, I have deliberately held off putting a date on the next evening by me, just because of the uncertainty of where I am from day to day at the moment due work, that changes on 1 July so I hope to have something set up in July for Coventry and Leeds.

Cheers

GS

[Flyin'ematlast]

Huge thanks to Leon (and Phil) for the evening last night :D. The sim IMC session lived up to expectations :\ and the general chat was fascinating as usual, especially the discussion about JAA vs FAA training styles.

Now I just need to find a real helicopter with the flight characteristics and costs of the sim (Leon described it as a B206 with twin squirrel power).

I look forward to the next evening.

Ian.

[Pandalet]

Seconded!

Taking abuse from Leon is always a highly educational experience :ok:

[malc4d]

great time...........learnt a lot......Leon ,Phil and Dave............ :ok::ok:
nice to have met you all......:)

[Need money]

Very challenging and a great experience...... look forward to doing my IR in a year or 2 even more now :bored:

Many thanks to Leon and Phil - and lets not forget Dave (?) who was actually adjusting the torture level.

:D:D

[helimutt]

Wait till you do the IR for real and Leon asks you to do a hold with a 45kt crosswind. You can try it but it's not gonna work!

Cheers Leon!:D


Hope anyone who attended found it useful to see what inadvertant IMC is like. Anyone do good/bad? Feedback for others ????

:ok:

[Whirlygig]

I think it took me as long as two minutes to kill myself :ok: Started off OK but the concentration required was immense. I physically jumped when I saw ground again, lost it completely and hit the ground at 100kts! :ouch:

Very worthwhile experience and thanks to Leon, Phil and Dave.

Cheers

Whirls

[KNIEVEL77]

Has the date been fixed for Leeds yet and if so when is it?

Also is there a semi pro simulator available for the R22?

[Lord Mount]

Thanks to all for yesterday evening.
Its very reassuring to hear that there are people within this industry with the knowledge and experience of Leon and Phil that are willing to give up their time for low hour PPLs for no other reason than a common desire to prevent us from becoming statistics and thread discussions on PPRuNe.
It is humbling.

What an eye opener the sim flight into inadvertant IMC was.

It is scary how quick it happens. Reactions take over and hands and feet do things subconsciously. I had to recognise what they were doing and undo the problems before I could tackle the overall situation about getting back to the airfield.

I was so pleased that I managed to get back while keeping the spinny thing up and the skiddy things down (even with a licence from the back of a cereal packet) that I think I relaxed a bit too much and stuffed up the landing. Still it was a lesson learned.

I shall be trying to attend other meetings now and would heartilly recommend others to do the same.

It was also great to put faces to Pprune names.

Nice to meet you all.

Lord Mount

[iainms]

Many thanks to Phil, Leon and Dave:ok: What an great thing to do for us !
Thanks guys!

[helimutt]

K77, watch this space. Have spoken to Gary and we're trying to sort something soon, next few weeks we hope.


Gary just busy working for a living right now.



Out of interest, was there a good attendance and if so, many PPRuNers?

[paco]

9 turned up, all ppruners, although some had intended but got stopped at the last minute. From my side of the fence, it's encouraging that people are seeking the knowledge.

Phil

[helimutt]

any ppl'ers manage to say alive long after entry into IMC? Anyone use the instrument flying skills learned from the PPL syllabus and successfully do the 180degree turn and get out of cloud?

[Whirlygig]

Managed to turn round reasonably successfully but speed was going all over the place. But when I got out of cloud again and saw the ground, I jumped! Everything then when pear-shaped and I crashed close to the airfield.

And this was after me doing a bit of foggles training a few days ago (10 minutes worth!).

Cheers

Whirls

[Flyin'ematlast]

Helimutt

"any ppl'ers manage to say alive long after entry into IMC? Anyone use the instrument flying skills learned from the PPL syllabus and successfully do the 180degree turn and get out of cloud?"

I managed to get the sim on the ground without crashing - eventually - but my speed was all over the place and I'd have been utterly lost without Leon guiding me back so it was no achievement on my part :uhoh:. Also I'd watched the two previous attempts and thought through what to do. How many of us would have had the spare mental capacity to call Mayday as well without losing even more control!

I found the experience useful as a reminder but having really been into cloud once under supervision (details withheld to protect the guilty) I can assure you that it's much more frightening for real.

I would hope to expand on the brief discussion we finished with though about a "post PPL(H)" training programme.

When I can afford to I intend to do an intensive "advanced auto's" course and I found the Robinson factory safety DVD thought provoking and fascinating not least for it's use of genuine UK video footage of fatal events. I never fully appreciated how quickly an R22 becomes a stone if the RRPM drops too low until watching the DVD. I'd recommend it.


Safe flying to one and all,

Ian.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Also you should try an autorotation on Instruments now they need some getting used to I can tell you but it all depends who teaches you. I did three on Monday part of my OPC. :ok:

I am glad you all had an excellent time. I hope one day i will make it to one of these evenings.

[VeeAny]

We got agreement from Coventry airport last week to host the next safety evening in the terminal building.

It looks like the date will be Thursday 4th September 2008, with a kick off around 1830 - 1845, the airport will confirm the date early next week but this is what we are planning.

Anyone who wants to attend needs to let me know at [email protected] (which is the email address on the website, but which doesn't seem to want to appear here) , the airport need a list of attendees.

Further details will appear at Helicopter Safety | Coventry (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/coventry.asp)

Cheers


GS

[HeliCraig]

Count me in!! I have a house nearby with spare rooms, so if any PPRuNER needs accommodation I can help out - in return for beer, obviously!

[Whirlybird]

I hope to make it and will let you know definitely next week.

[VeeAny]

Date now confirmed by the airport, 4th September.

In the terminal building at Coventry but seemingly not accessed through the terminal, directions to follow shortly 1830 for 1845 start.

We need to advise the airport by close of play on 1 Sep 2008 who is coming , so let me know please.

GS

[VeeAny]

We've a good response up to now.

If any I've missed any of the local flying schools in my phone calls in the last few days I apologise, but just in case here is a link to the flyer for the event which can be stuck up on the notice board.

http://www.helicoptersafety.org/pdfs/coventry%20flyer.pdf

I've managed to obtain what seems like half the production run of the Heli Routes DVD [Thanks Alan and Collette], and these will be given out free on the night along with some other gizzits we've been promised.

GS

[Northernstar]

Senior Pilot, can we make this thread a sticky please?!!!
:}

[Flingingwings]

Gary,

I know you've been a busy bunny but is there any news on the 'fly with a friend' scheme????????

Only asking as the 'season' is slowing and the weather ain't completely ****e yet.

FW

[AlanM]

Vee - you are welcome fella.

Hope it goes well.

Alan

[ShyTorque]

FW, I thought you already had lots of friends to fly with ;)

[Flingingwings]

Do you know having posted I'd have had £10 on me old mucker Shy T adding something :ok:

I am finding it a tad lonely at the top, but if it's that quiet little candle lit bistro you have in mind again, and you're paying, count me in :p

Only request is you let me go on top this time :E

[helimutt]

FW, You Two Timing BEEAATTCCHHHHHH!!!! LOL

I haven't any friends to fly with.:( and I can't make Coventry due to work roster. So not fair.

[ShyTorque]

but if it's that quiet little candle lit bistro you have in mind again, and you're paying, count me in. Only request is you let me go on top this time

There's two reasons to say "Only if you're still on the diet". :}

I won't be able to commit to Coventry due to the vagaries of my work commitments. It's tough at the bottom rung of the ladder. "Ladder, what ladder?" I hear you shout.. :confused:

[heli-mad]

Hi guys,

I saw Leeds coming up as the next place for a Safety night. Please PM me, i work for the heli company up there and we are quite happy to host it. I will try to get approval from the owner of the Sim we have, "parked" at the moment in a dark corner......

We've done recently 2 Robbo Safety courses and i am quite keen on this one as well....:ok:

Let me know chaps

H-M

[VeeAny]

HM

Leeds is in hand, at your place and with the sim (hopefully), I am going to speak to one of your guys who has offered to help me tomorrow about some other ideas.

I am trying to organise something that involves a bit more than a go in a sim, but it needs a couple of other people to do the hard bit, at a couple of other venues. I'll post more here when I've got approval for it.

Gary

[helimutt]

Gary, can't make Coventry i'm afraid but would love to attend/help out at the Leeds meet, if it's worked around my roster. Any chance we could look at possible dates? Sorry to be a pain.

PS, if there's a sim, i'd love to see if I can fly on instruments too!

[Flingingwings]

HM,
I'd like to see if you could fly on Instruments too :E

Shy,
You weren't worried about my 'size' last time :\

[helimutt]

FW, You know I can't. Just don't get the chance, too much time off.

[DMW2007]

Hi All

Hope newbies are welcome at the Safety evenings I've just registered via the Coventry e-mail address.

DW

[VeeAny]

DMW2007

Newbies certainly are, anyone with an interest in helicopter safety is welcome including but not limited to pilots (student and qualified), engineers and controllers.

GS

[heli-mad]

Flingingwings

....very nervous with the spot light turned on me, i might hold it for 1min..:eek:

Lets wait and see what is Gary's new plan....:ok:

HM

[HeliCraig]

Gary has a plan? When did this happen??

(Does it involve beer?)

[helimutt]

Watch this space HeliCraig. Leeds is in hand but not for immediate planning.

[Flingingwings]

Heli-mad,

Sorry it was Helimutt I was teasing, we go back a way :ok:. Should have realised there were two HM's, but enjoy the sim :p

Helimutt. Time off?????? Wots that :confused::confused:

:E

[helimutt]

FW, you wouldn't enjoy the whole 'time off' thing anyway. You love what you're doing so much, you even do it at a reduced rate!! Now that's dedication.

[Flingingwings]

It is possible to 'go off' people real fast! :uhoh:

But yer right I wouldn't change things :ok:
:E

[VeeAny]

If you've registered for Coventry you will find a brief set of Joining Instructions at http://www.helicoptersafety.org/pdfs/Coventry%20Joining%20Instructions.pdf

The airport have given us extra time to get the registration list over to them and this will now be done on Thursday morning.

We have 45 people registered to attend at the moment.

GS

[Senior Pilot]

Just to bump this to the top: for those who forgot to put Coventry tonight in their diary ;)

[HeliCraig]

Thanks to Gary and Ian for all their hard work setting up tonight - was very informative.

Also thanks to Keith and Fred (The CAA Men!) for coming - its great to know that the authority aren't entirely faceless, and the knowledge imparted was much appreciated.

On that note - does anybody have a link to the Eurocopter Document about LTE that Fred referred to? I have had a quick search, but can't find it.

Gary: Excellent evening - your points on Met on the average PPLs Met skills I feel are very valid - would be invaluable to get someone from MetOffice for the next one.

Thanks again all who attended -was great to meet you all.

C.

[VeeAny]

Craig

I've PMd you a link to the document Fred referred to. I can't find it publicly on the web, I'll speak to someone at Eurocopter today and see if they will let me post it on the helicopter safety site and pop a link on here.

Cheers


GS

[paco]

Next date for the diary - Shawn Coyle is in UK in the latter part of October, the week of the 21st, so I've booked him for a safety evening. Watch this space......

Also trying to get hold of the sim again - perhaps we can combine the two!

Phil

[helimutt]

Is this some sort of conspiracy? I can't do 21st, 22nd, 23rd, but I just happen to be at Heathrow evenings of 24th, 25th!!! Oh well. Back to my kennel.

[John Eacott]

Please make it somewhere nice (and accessible): I'm also in UK about that time :cool:

[paco]

OK John - if you can let me have your dates, we'll see what we can do - dates noted Helimutt.

Phil

[212man]

I'll be in Farnborough 18-31st, so will try and get accross (wherever it is!) but at the moment I have 20-2400 sim slots! Shawn or Paco if you fancy coming down I'm sure we can arrange a trip and a beer. PM or e-mail me:ok:

[paco]

At the moment, it is at Wycombe, but if the guys at Farnborough have a pub nearby.......

phil

[helimutt]

Have now possibly got 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, Oct free.

Cheers.

[500e]

What happened to the South West was it something we said?

[Lord Mount]

Phil,
I enjoyed the last Wycombe evening so much you can count me in for the next one (good for Farnborough as well) as long as confirmed dates allow.

Standing by on this frequency.

LM

[VeeAny]

500e

No not at all, I live down here, so we will try and get it done by end October.

Phil tends to do his version of things up at Wycombe, thats were he's based. I kind of wander around the country doing the others.

Will be either Dunkeswell or the helicopter museum any takers ?

Gary

[HeliCraig]

GS:

Count me in - although I am away the first two weeks in November.

Phil:

I'm hoping I can make it to Wycombe - just depends on the final date you come up with!.


C.

[Evalu8ter]

500E/VeeAny
Helo museum would be great.

Cheers

[O27PMR]

I was gutted I missed the last night at Wycombe so if there is likely to be another then I would love to attend if that's ok?

PR

[JBL99]

Gary, Helicopter Museum would suit me fine - count me in !:ok:

[500e]

VeeAny
Dunkerswell or museum will be great whatever suits WSM only 7 miles from home:ok:

[HOVERJOCKI]

Hi Guys & Girls.
I was curious to know if you have a roster or list of venues till the end of the year for your meetings.
I will be visiting home for the first time in a while and i have been following your forum here and was curious to know where you might have your meeting in November/December.
I live and fly in the States and never in the UK and would like to join in one of your meetings of possible.
Thanks for any info.

[VeeAny]

The plans for the next evenings go something like

Leeds
Wycombe [Phils evening mentioned above]
South West England
Redhill

As always subject to change primarily due to rostering and location / speaker availability.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Phil you couldn't make it the 21st, 22nd or 23rd could you?

Then again a night after the 23rd could work at a push.

[VeeAny]

The eurocopter service letters refered by Craig and I earlier in this thread and brought up by Fred Cross at the Coventry evening can now be found at http://www.helicoptersafety.org/genericaccident.asp?keyword=LTE , about half way down the page on the right hand side.

Europcopter have agreed to their use on the helicopter safety site, so thanks to them for that.

[DennisK]

Hi GS/Capn/Helimutt etc ... Any dates 21st onwards October OK for me.

Especially if anyone out there wants to know how easy it is to travel 5000 miles to Utah, just to get a sore backside!

Dennis K

[paco]

Looks like the evening of the Thurs 23rd for Wycombe - Shawn will be there plus anyone else who wants to come along. I will have a couple of movies to show, especially on LTE and the Transport Canada decision-making one and if time permits the CASA one.

Any suggestions for discussion points will be welcome - expect to start around 7 in the Pad, to be confirmed as I have still to talk to the management.

Phil

[iainms]

Count me in:ok:

[VeeAny]

I'll try and get along Phil,

Still sorting out date for Leeds was looking at 21/22/23 Oct so may be busy up north, I'll keep you posted.

GS

[paco]

OK - definitely in the Pad!

Phil

[Brilliant Stuff]

Thanks Phil.

[O27PMR]

I have put the date in my diary and I will check my rota when I get to work tomorrow before I confirm :-)

PR

[John Eacott]

Looks like the evening of the Thurs 23rd for Wycombe

Phil,

FWIW, that's the same night as the GAPAN Trophies and Awards Banquet. Just the wrong date for me :{

[paco]

See you afterwards? If you're in UK and have the time you are welcome to drop by for a coffee duringthe day anyway!

Phil

[Dragpin]

Count me in, and I will bring two others with me.:ok:

[O27PMR]

I have checked my rota and i am off on the 23rd so can you put me down for 2 people attending.

Thanks

PR

[Brilliant Stuff]

I am bringing my superior with me so that will two of us.

[KNIEVEL77]

Having been to the first ever Heli night up in Newcastle i'm still planning on popping down to Leeds for the one there.........the reason being that there was such a massive turnout at Newcastle that we only got through half of the 'syllabus'!

Hope its Oct 22nd!

[nigel f]

I would like to be put down for two places on the leeds event please

Nigel

[Flyin'ematlast]

Phil

Add me to the Wycombe list again please.

Ian.

[Pandalet]

I'm in for Wycombe (but then, you knew that already)...

[Martin Barclay]

Is the Leeds evening a definate for the 23rd as I would like to attend but I am getting confused as to when Leeds and Wycombe are scheduled. Easily confused I know!

Thanks

Mart

[helimutt]

Wycombe 23rd Oct, Leeds still to be arranged.
:-)

[DennisK]

Hallo Phil ... Add me to the list for the 23rd at 19.00 ish. Back from SLC with a refurbished bum now.

CU all soon,

Dennis Kenyon.

[Helinut]

I'd like to come along too on the 23rd @ Wycombe, if that is OK?

I was at the European Helicopter Safety Team Conference in Portugal earlier this month. [This is the European regional version of the IHST process] They were struggling to find the formula to pass on safety information and ideas to private and small operators. The sort of thing you guys have been doing is exactly the way they need to look at this, IMHO.

[VeeAny]

Helinut

We were there too and it was commented on afterwards (several people expected me to get involved in the floor discussion , I don't believe a europe wide forum was an appropriate place to look like you are promoting an english initiative). I expect (hope) that what we've been up to will become part of the distribution method for the EHSIT outputs.

I was quite heartened by the fact that, the sample outputs from the EHSAT process had turned up almost identical results as those found during my seperate research earlier this year. The top four issues to be addressed were exactly the same (in a different order).

Gary

[VeeAny]

At last we've managed to get venue and people sorted out for Leeds.

29th October 2008 in the Cafe on the southside of the airfield 1830 for 1845 start.

There will be a registration link on the helicopter safety website later on today.
As with Coventry please register, that way I can send out directions and let everyone know if there are any changes of plan or location if we get too many people registered to fit where originally planned.

The link to the leeds evening is here Helicopter Safety | Leeds (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/leeds.asp)

The registration link is not there yet, but it will be later today I just wanted to post the date for all to see on here.

Gary

[helimutt]

See you in Leeds then. Might be coming with a couple of other folhk from work. :ok:

[VeeAny]

Just wanted to bump this up again to the front page.

The Leeds registration links are all there now along wih a flyer for the evening, travel and accomodation options for anyone who might want to stay over.

I've tried to contact all the Schools within or just outside an hours travel time by road from Leeds, but all are welcome wherever they are from.

Don't forget Phil is doing something at Wycombe on the 23rd of October and Shawn Coyle is due to be there.

Gary

[Sgtfrog]

So, anyone else coming? Who's got the furthest to go? Must be GS:E
SF

[trussee05]

trussee05 - Essex, Herts, Cambs. Good plan, count me in:ok:

[Up & Away]

I have emailed to registered to attend
but can I expect a confirmation/response?

[VeeAny]

We've got 40 people registered already, I don't have the time to deal with them one at a time, so I send out confirmations once we have made sure that everyone who wants to come will physically fit in the venue. Also saves bombarding potential attendees with thanks for registering and then oh by the way we've had to move venues type emails.

If I ever get around to completely automating the system it may happen quicker but for now its not.

I have added a short paragraph about confirmations to the page for future reference.

I have received yours.

Expect replies Monday next week.

GS

[Up & Away]

well sorted by
"I have added a short paragraph about confirmations to the page for future reference".:ok:

I'm sure it will help all
thanks :)

[VeeAny]

Have fun tonight at Wycombe boys and girls, hopefully someone will post here when they get home and let us all know how it went.

GS

[DennisK]

For Capt Phil and attendees,

My apologies Phil for not being able to be with the meeting this evening, especially as I may have missed meeting Shawn Coyle.

Sadly I have some weird kind of throat virus which I didn't want to spray around on the healthy guys. Planning to be at the next Redhill event.

Best wishes,

DennisK

[paco]

Hope you get better soon Dennis - we could have used you as Shawn spoke a little more than he anticipated! The meeting started off fine in the pad, but we were competing with the wake for the owner's wife who died las week, so we removed to leon's place and popped back and forward for more liquid refreshment ;)

Aside from some interesting war stories, Shawn came up with some new aspects on helicopter performance and best ROC speeds, plus the comparisons between fixed wing and helicopter and how we are always playing catch up.

Probably about 30 people turned up ( I didn't count) and it was a very convivial evening indeed. Kudos to those who appeared and yet again demonstrated a continuing interest in safety at the coal face - as I said last night, you guys will all be future captains of this industry and will hopefully remember some of it to have a positive influence.

cheers till next time

phil

[Shawn Coyle]

Dennis: Sorry to have missed you. Next time I'm in the UK, we'll do this again, and you can do all the talking!!!
Phil:
thanks for arranging the night.
And to all the pprune rotorheads who turned up - it was a delight to meet you and see such enthusiasm for helicopters and making things safer. Your kindness in letting me ramble on and air my many pet peeves was appreciated. I just wished I asked my beer winning questions earlier.... See you all next time!

[Brilliant Stuff]

Many thanks to Phil and Shawn for offering your time and making sure we had some serious food for thought on the way home.

Shame the evening was so short. I could have easily chatted for another two hours.

[Flyin'ematlast]

Thanks again to Phil and Shawn. Another valuable evening (especially Shawn's comments on best ROC speeds - Now we just need a decent low airspeed indicator on all machines :*.)

It was also interesting to see a wider mix of pilots there this time (especially the rig support guys).

I for one intend to keep coming and learning from the "oldies".

Ian.

[VeeAny]

I've had a couple of requests for a scotland evening, I was thinking about Edinburgh (somewhere)

Just because we may get some northern England guys, and Aberdeen is not offensively far up the road.

Logistically Aberdeen may be easier, but I am trying to make it accessible to all.

Your thoughts please folks.

[paco]

Ryanair go to Prestwick!

Phil

[MK10]

Edinburgh or Glasgow would certainly catch the central belt guys/gals
Prestwick is quite awkward unless you live on the West.
Stirling could be a good compromise for all...........maybe that's why the CAA are there and not in Ayrshire anymore?? Either way count me in guys .

Mk10

[Martin Barclay]

Sounds good. Stirling is OK, suitably central but no airport. One thought was that some of the PDG guys based at Cumbernauld might be interested and either PDG at Cumbernauld Airport or the airport themselves might be able to provide a venue.

I live in the area and would be happy to ask the questions. Alternatively Edinburgh airport are always keen to show off their fairly new control tower and one of the controllers there (that I know) may be able to help with a tour and a venue.

Planning to be down in Leeds on Wednesday and could discuss it then?

Cheers

Martin.

[VeeAny]

We've now sorted out Redhills Next Safety Evening.

26th November 2008 no surprises for guessing at Redhill Aerodrome in the terminal building.

This is the first of round 2 of the evenings with a NATS controller giving us a chat on the Heli Lanes, and some new stuff from me.

More Details and Registration Link Here Helicopter Safety | Redhill (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/redhill_2.asp)

Comments, Queries, Advice and Personal abuse all gratefully received.

[Up & Away]

Gary
I (and the 70plus) thank you for all your effort tonight
Excellent evening
Well done :ok:

[EESDL]

Concur.........
with excellent facilities provided by FBO.
A well organised and focused evening - whereas there was the sense of 'preaching to the converted' - genuine proactive attitude present by all - there couldn't have been many helicopter pilots left in the North who didn't attend!!!!!!!!

[HOVERJOCKI]

Hi.
Just curious to know if you have to register for the Redhill evening.
I've been following your posts about the evenings you have and i will be coming home from the States around that time and would like to come along.
If i can get out of work the day before and get an early flight i would like to attend but if it is mandatory then i will try another visit.
Thanks for any help.

[VeeAny]

Just register and if you don't turn up no harm done.

It just helps us keep track off who is coming and what size venue we need, we've been to capacity at the last three and had to look for alternates nearby.

We have about 25 registered for Redhill already.

GS

[jumpseater]

Pls call got some info and details as requested.:ok:
rgds

[DBChopper]

It's unfortunate that due to my work I can't make the Redhill Safety Evening this time, but to anyone who is considering it, my advice is get yourself along there - the last one was well worth it.

Gary and helpers - hope it goes well.

Regards,

DBChopper :ok:

[Flyin'ematlast]

Huge thanks to Gary and Ian for arranging last night's safety evening. Also a very big thank you to Alan from NATS and David? from the CAA for their presentations.

Ian.

[K48]

Damn I had Redhill down for this saturday in my diary for some reason and was looking forward to it. Gutter. What did I miss?? Can someone give a summary...?

[AlanM]

As an "outsider" from the helicopter fraternity, can I also thank Gary and Ian for their continued efforts (and invite)

Really good to see the work ongoing - and well attended events such as this help reinforce those efforts.

Rgds

Alan

[KNIEVEL77]

Hi chaps,

Is there any thoughts on revisiting Newcastle to show us the full presentation, if you remember we only caught half of it due to the enormous turnout?

K77.

[KNIEVEL77]

It seems to have gone all quiet on this thread, as above, I was just wondering if any more evenings are planned?

[VeeAny]

K77

Yes, plenty more planned, what we are trying to do is not do the same thing in the same place twice as we are fully aware that no one will want to see the third evening if we do (but we will run the whole thing in Newcastle if we have enough people who want to see it).

There are plans a foot to keep the initiative running for at least the next 12 months, I am sorry I've been busy since Redhill with all kinds of non aviation stuff as I am fairly quiet on the flying front and haven't had time to update this thread and the website, I aim to do that before year end. I'll report back here when I've done it.

Cheers

GS

[TheMonk]

Not sure if anyone has suggested this yet, but would someone video these events for those of us who can't attend? Especially the speakers.

I, for one, would appreciate it,

Monk

[KNIEVEL77]

Excellent, thanks Gary.

[500e]

Still no SW evening scheduled??:{:{:{

[VeeAny]

Ladies and Gents

Sorry for being quiet, unusual for me I know, been sorting other stuff out lately.

Can we have a show of hands for a South West Venue.

1. Dunkeswell
2. Gloucester
3. Weston Super Mare [Will be chargeable, which we haven't done up to now].
4. Further South west like Exeter or Plymouth.

I'd like to get the SW first evening done by the end of the month.

Scotland perhaps next month or April.

Gary

[500e]

1 \ 3 or 4 please

[The Nr Fairy]

2 or 3 preferred.

[ManOnTheSticks]

Happy to travel to any SW venue, looking forward to it!

[jeepys]

1 would be nice for me but I will go with whatever the majority is.

Thanks very much.

J

[paco]

Warning order for a safety/meeting night at Wycombe in the week containing the 20th May. Shawn Coyle will be talking about a subject yet to be decided - suggestions are welcome

Phil

[500e]

Still no SW:{:{

[DennisK]

Phil,

Copied the Wycombe 'safety' evening ... if you'd like me to chat through my recent 'faux pas' at the Salt Lake City air show, I'd be happy to participate second to Shawn.

DRK

[paco]

Dennis - as a speaker you're equal to Shawn any day! :) Glad to see you there and to hear your story. Once I know the proper date (depends on when Shawn finishes what he's doing) I'll book the Pad.

Phil

[Lord Mount]

Phil,
If there is a list, please show me as warned for the meeting.

Cheers

John

[VeeAny]

500e

I am sorry it is taking a while to sort, primarily due to me and the new job, planning is progressing well for the 2nd round of evenings and their content.

I'll try and sort out a day today if that makes sense.

GS

[Pandalet]

I'm in!
Extra text so the message isn't too short (stupid system!)

[Darren999]

Will see how much the air fare is.......

[500e]

Go Darren 999, you know it makes scene.:ok:
Thanks VA thought you had a date in mind,

[Shawn Coyle]

Dennis:
You've got much better stories than I do! Looking forward to seeing you again.

[DennisK]

Hallo Shawn,

Over here, we older generation pilots are known as COFs, but we can tell a yarn or two. (I know you can too but not suggesting you are a member of the aged clan just yet!) ... After your talk, I'd like to relate the sequence of events that led to my display accident in Utah. Then invite the newer pilots to stop me whenever they spotted an upcoming error. We then spend a minute or two discussing the point.

Look forward to meeting up again. The last time must have been the Redhill Helitech in 1998/99.

Take care all ppruners and hope to see many of you at the WAP evening.

Dennis K.

*Crusty Old Farts.

[iainms]

Count me in !:ok:

[DennisK]

Hi all ... (Phil/Gary et al)

Just to keep us on the front row of the grid, and offer a further topic ...

Having survived two T/R failures and as I now include a suggested handling procedure to my PPL training, I'd be happy to relate the 1986 Cranfield and the 1999 Biggin Hill incidents (both Enstrom 280 Sharks) to kick the subject off for general discussion at the next suitable meeting ... as decided by Phil and Gary.

See you all in May,

Dennis K

[matspart3]

Happy to host one at Gloucester if it helps...can accomodate 70-80...PM me for details...

[Brilliant Stuff]

Paco,Shawn and Dennis,

Could you make it either the 18th, 19th or 20th? That would be spiffing old chaps.:D

[John Eacott]

Any decision yet for venue/dates? I'm nipping over to UK this weekend for a month, and will be staying in Herts for that week. I may even let someone buy me a decent pint of bitter if I can find the wherewithall to listen to more COF's :p

[VeeAny]

Brief update

The SW evening is dragging in somewhat, we had plans for around about now, which unfortunately were shelved due to the G-REDL crash.

Next week I hope to confirm a date around 12-13 May at Dunkeswell or somewhere close by.

Gary

[DennisK]

Hi Gary,

My offer is still on the table for WAP or Dunkeswell if wanted.

Speak soon and it would be good to see John Eacott with us.

Dennis K

[Whirlygig]

Dennis and/or Phil, how are things progressing for the 20th (ish) May at High Wycombe? I'm keen to come to that one but need to make arrangements.

Cheers

Whirls

[John Eacott]

13th would be an awkward evening for me, I have to return the rental motorbike to Bournemouth that afternoon! Traipsing around on the bike for a fortnight before that, and then back to Herts.

I'd certainly look forward to catching up to put some faces to all the names :)

[paco]

Just waiting on what Shawn is doing (should find out Friday)

What dates are you around John?

Phil

[DennisK]

Hi Whirls .. While I'm hoping to participate, I am not the organizor. I believe the date may still be the 20th May, but monitor Gary and Phil's notes here.

Phil ... Shawn may not be able to attend our evening. No doubt he will shortly formally advise his position.

Hope to see you all agains soon.

Dennis K

[Brilliant Stuff]

Phil has a date been confirmed?

[paco]

Sorry - I got sidetracked with loads of students! Shawn is not coming over now, having been occupied with an expert witness case. We can still do the 20th, though. Let me confirm with the place where they do hot beer, lousy food and bad service!

phil

[paco]

OK - not sure if this is too short notice, but the 20th/21st are available at Wycombe.

Phil

[Whirlygig]

Originally had the 20th planned, heard nowt and believed it to be cancelled so no-can-now. Could we make it beginning of June? :O Pretty please? :O

Cheers

Whirls

[Brilliant Stuff]

To be honest it would suit me better if we postpone please.

[paco]

OK - will do!

Phil

[Paddyviking]

I'm in Farnborough 2,3,4th of June
would love to go and meet you guys if possible :ok:

Pv

[Pandalet]

I don't really mind when it happens, but as much notice as possible please!

[John Eacott]

I'll be leaving for home on the 27th May, so that'll be me out, I'm afraid.

But I did get to spend a pleasant evening meeting VeeAny and his family: many thanks :ok:

[VeeAny]

John it was a pleasure to meet you at last, you are more than welcome here at anytime.

I plan to start what now amounts to the next round of evenings in September, that gives us plenty of time to get summer hols out of the way, and hopefuly enough notice to get people organised to attend and also to speak.

Very roughly I plan to do the South West first and run the same presentation we did at Redhill, Coventry and Leeds last year.

Then we will move on to what I call round 2 evenings, these will have more of a type specific focus and will also touch on some of the recommendations made by the EHSIT if they have been published by then.

There is talk of a Cambridge based presentation around the time of HeliTech also, but thats just an idea at the moment.

I know its been a while since the last one, there are far too many reasons for that, but now I hope to get the show back on the road and welcome all input for ideas, venues and the like.

And no Martin I haven't forgotten about Scotland !

Gary

[THM]

The Helicopter Museum has some excellent lecture facilities now and catering can also be supplied.

Plus it has the largest collection of helicopters covering most elements of rotorcraft development.

Plenty of local accommodation and landing area.

Give them a call 01934-635227 The Helicopter Museum. (http://www.helicoptermuseum.co.uk)

[VeeAny]

THM

I always thought you were connected with the management of the helicopter museum, although you may not be aware of the history of this.

As some of you are probably aware the helicopter museum was suggested as a venue for this last year and the venue is good and has a large lecture room with projector, however these evenings are all done with little (usually no) budget and have always been provided at no cost to the attendees (thats one of the defining principles) .

I was asked if I wanted to hold an evening at the helicopter museum last year, I went to see the venue with one of the guys who helps with some of the safety evening stuff, however during discussion after the visit it became apparent that they need to charge for the use of the facility (staff need payiing to come in and keep the place open for us, and they are a charity after all) this cost ran to several hundred pounds, whereas all the other venues we have used and intend to use were able to provide themselves free of charge purely in the name of improving helicopter safety and in return for a bit of positive advertising on the website, and to be fair to those venues we have visited up to now and the people at them they all couldn't do more for us and each one of vitually jumped at the chance to be involved.

I did discuss the idea of getting the money from somewhere to use the museum, however everyone concerned was of the opinion we just use one of the other aviation venues we have since been offered down that end of the country for free, so unfortunately its a no brainer.

If the situation changes at the museum we'd be happy to put them back in the program.

Gary

[Hughes500]

Gary

Let me know how much the museum would charge, If not a fortune I might sponsor the venue rather than use Dunkeswell as the museum facilities will be better

A

[500e]

Could be tempted to share cost with you Hughes 500 if reasonable?
It is a good advert for their facility, & would encourage people to visit.
They like people to fly in as well so perhaps a day time meeting for most would be good if it could be arranged.
Did not realise they paid volunteers.

[VeeAny]

500e

We tend to hold the events in the evening so more people have a chance of attending, so a daytime one would probably not get as many attendees as usual. And hopefully this time we will have at least a months notice of dates.

However the idea of venue sponsorship is a whole new ball game, thank you to both of you, I'll look into it tomorrow.

GS

[Hughes500]

Veeany

Think it is disgusting the museum wants to charge for this. After all it is the likes of the people that would go to the meeting that support the Helidays event and The Museum. Lets face it most owners/ hireer's fly to WSM which costs them in some cases thousands of £'s. The event would be a real non event without the participation of these private owners. I think the least the museum could do as a sign of thanks is to give the facility for free.
Mind you perhaps it is a sign of the times we live in, or is it just short sighted ?
Let me know how you get on

[500e]

We flew into the museum some time ago with 3 others £ 24.00 if I remember.
It was suggested that the helpers never got to fly (appeared to be a hint) but it helped to generate interest in the museum if there were live craft on site,
It was not the cost ( it must be an expensive facility to run) but the vibes were not good & made me feel that they were doing us a favour, hope it was just a bad day, lots of interesting machinery to view close up.

[Brilliant Stuff]

I hope you don't mind but I have to show some support for the museum here.

Yes it would be an awesome place for the safety-evening but I actually know some of the volunteers and have to say they earn their salary. I have always been looked after very well and fed first class. :ok::ok::ok::ok:

IMHO some comments about the museum have been a tad harsh in that respect.
I wouldn't mind paying a tenner or twenty for the evening.

[THM]

Gary

I am not directly part of the management at the Helicopter Museum but I have indeed been involved with the museum since its concept and was a trustee for many years.

I was not aware of the previous history referred to but would make the following comments:

1. The only people involved with the museum who are paid are the immediate managers, all others are volunteers.

2. Sadly there are costs in running and maintaining all the facilities at the museum (electricity, rates etc.) and as an organisation it has a long record of being financially self sufficient and not committing to any bank loans. This has been possible by a combination of prudent financial control, local and national grants, donations and revenue from visitors.

3. Over the last 19 years of the Helidays event it has been possible for the organisers, with the generous support of both military and civilian helicopter flyers, to achieve the original aims of the event. That was to raise funds for a number of charities, including the museum, and to promote helicopters to the public. This has always been appreciated by the organisers who are not the museum. The Helicopter Museum has obviously benefitted greatly from the Helidays event providing the excellent facilities now in place. Have a look at the history page on the museum site to see how much it has developed The Helicopter Museum, the World's Largest Dedicated Helicopter Museum. (http://www.helicoptermuseum.co.uk/69-79.htm)

4. Fly-in visitors to the museum are always welcome for the reasons 500e highlights and the “landing fee” is usually the cost of entry to the museum. I am sorry 500e had a bad vibe on your last visit but what happened to you is not normal practice at the museum. Volunteers at the museum are unpaid volunteers.

If you decide to go back for the evening event pm me and I will be happy to sponsor the tea, sandwiches and cakes.

THM

[VeeAny]

Just got the tmings for our Helitech presentations

Tuesday and Thursday 12:20 - 13:50
Wednesday 15:20 - 16:50

More details here Helicopter Safety | Helitech (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/helitech.asp)

The plan is to run some bits of what I usually do at the safety evenings, all are welcome, its free, but space may be the limiting factor.

GS

[VeeAny]

The next evening is Redhill October 26th 2009 19:15 at the tower.

We've made it a bit later to give people a chance to get there.

Topics for this time will include engine power loss in the light pistons and not the same stuff as last year, I'll have that with me if anyone wants to see it.

I've also got some rather sobering images of helicopters that have suffered engine failures and the aftermath, relevant to things we'll be looking at during the evening.

I also hope to have at least one guest speaker just waiting for confirmation.

Once I get some more details I'll pop them up here.

Splot any chance of making this sticky until 27th Oct ?

[Brilliant Stuff]

Any chance of getting an evening going in the Northampton area or Cambridge?

Or is it just a question of me finding you a place with electricity and a date to fit us?

[VeeAny]

BS

In essence yes, we did Helitech but Cambridge would be good if we can get enough people to attend to make it worthwhile.

I need to find some sponsors for upcoming events as I no longer have a day job that takes me around the country as often with a schedule that can be fixed ahead of time.

GS

[Brilliant Stuff]

Cheers Gary, I will keep my eyes peeled.

[VeeAny]

Between myself SgtFrog and one of the LHC instructors we sorted out the topics for discussion at the round 2 / 3 evenings last night in the pub (although I am not sure they noticed what I was doing !)

The main topic of the evening is light piston engine helicopters focussing on

Accident Causes

Engine Power Loss and the consequences.

Weight and Balance Issues

Performance Issues

These will be the things we look at in detail at Redhill.

I am still waiting to see if I get the guest speaker(s) I want. If not your stuck with me again :ugh:

[VeeAny]

I've put the details of the evening on the helicopter safety now Helicopter Safety | Redhill (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/redhill_3.asp)

I've spent quite a bit of today chatting over the plan with a few experienced Robinson instructors should prove quite interesting.

[Sgtfrog]

I'll be there! Setting up and being abused by Vee!!:mad:
SF

[Flingingwings]

SF,

Isn't it about time Vee wore the dress and allowed you to go on top? :p

Hoping to make it along too :ok:

[Exo.]

Likewise should be around if the old Sarge needs a hand. We gotta look after his back at his age after all.

[VeeAny]

Exo

Sarge might get it easy this time.

I am probably going to set up in the morning, before heading off to a meeting and then the Small Helicopter Safety Group at Gatwick.

I guess he won't get there till gone 1800 if he works or gone 1700 if he's off as he is getting on somewhat I agree.

I expect to get back to Redhill by 1700 at the latest so we can perhaps have a working party, so I at least have someone to be grumpy to.

GS

[northpoint]

Are there any future events planned? I would like to attend but do need more notice.

[VeeAny]

Yes more planned

The minimum I do is two weeks notice and thats probably the best it will get for the moment.

North west and South West in November.

[zerosum]

How about one in the Milton Keynes/Cranfield area? Maybe the Northampton crowd could come to that too.

[VeeAny]

If all goes to plan we have a guest speaker who will talk about the H/V Diagram from a Test Pilots viewpoint.

Much work has been done this week on researching piston engine power output and power loss. I've learnt quite a bit from some detailed digging and I am sure most of the Robinson instructors I know are fed up iwth me ringing asking questions and then going away again with no explanation, it will end soon.

[Helizoom1]

Gary,

Well done for organising yet another great evening at Redhill last night. It was very interesting and was good seeing so many people again. :D

[John R81]

Seconded. Thanks for the time you spent, and the Redhill team for the hospitality.

John

[heliboy999]

Thanks once again for organising and setting up the event. You are doing a smashing job. There needs to be a lot more discussion on these topics between pilots and if these evenings are the way to do it then so much the better.

Well done Gary!

HB999

[DBChopper]

And thanks from me too for yet another thought-provoking and informative evening :ok:

[DennisK]

Yes ... another great evening with so much relevent info becoming available and being bandied around. So a big thanks to Gary for his time and effort. If these evenings head off just one accident ... t'will all be so worth while.

Suggestion from attendees on the following. I'd like to see one of the safety subjects tossed into the ring for general discussion and perhaps a few of us might be prepared to bare all revealing a potential accidents but which didn't happen or any actual events that could be thrown in for more discussion.

I've mentioned before, for the future, I'd be happy to relate step by step the sequence of events that lead to my Salt Lake City 'faux pas')I think there were around a dozen!) and invite others to comment on each stage where I went wrong. Let us know Gary how you feel about the idea. Thanks again.

Dennis Kenyon.

[VeeAny]

Dennis

Thank you for taking the time to make what I believe was the longest journey of the evening to get there (perhaps with the exception of mine but I had an excuse, I was off on hols the next day).

We have discussed the idea of throwing hats in the ring before and I think its a great idea with a smaller group size. We almost always end up overrunning as it is and need to find more time for questions and answers at the end of the evening.

I get emails from people who have attended Phils evenings at Wycome and my travelling roadshow, there are some who prefer the kind of evening Phil puts on and some who prefer mine, as long as we are getting some messages across to the pilots out there I don't think it matters how we do it.

I am loathe to reduce the numbers at these events if there is demand we will try and satisfy it, but that does not mean I do not listen to you and others about how we do things.

I think perhaps at one or two in the future we will make time for you to discuss some of your gotchas and the ways out of them you have found, there are always people who ask me on the evening is that 'The Dennis Kenyon' and they I am sure would love to learn from your experience.

GS

[VeeAny]

I have been approached by a local pilot to see if I would put on a safety evening at premises in Winchester.

If there is a demand I have said why not.

We are looking most probably at the 11th of January 2010 as I have a meeting at Farnborough on the 12th and can tie up travelling with this.

I am thinking that gives us a reasonable catchment area of those located on the South Coast, from say Goodwood, Southampton, Bournemouth, Very West London and maybe even as far W as Yeovilton out towards Thruxton.

Do we have any takers ?

[DennisK]

Hi Gary,

Count me in for a Winchester event.

Dennis K

[iainms]

Count me in !:ok:

[Aubrey.]

Count me in too!

[TRC]

I'd like to be there too, please.

[EESDL]

As long as Terry and Arthur aren't there - they always get into some financial predicament where Terry ends up skint and Arthur smelling of roses - not a suitable environment for something as serious as a Safety Evening me thinks!
and then there's the singing along with the theme tune - don't get me started

[toptobottom]

Another one :ok:

[VeeAny]

11th January 2010 at 1900hrs in the Winchester area is now conifirmed.

I will pop a registration link on the helicopter safety site in the next day or two.

We have a venue in mind, but need to see how much interest there is, in case we are oversubscribed so more details will follow on that shortly.

Splot any chance of stickying this until the day ?

[VeeAny]

Details for the Winchester evening.

11th January 2010 1900 for 1915 at

Avington Trout Fishery
Avington
Winchester,
Hampshire,
SO21 1BZ

As usual there is a page on the helicopter safety site with a flyer for the evening and registration details it can be found here Helicopter Safety | Winchester (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/winchester.asp)

The flyer can be downloaded by clicking on this image
http://www.helicoptersafety.org/images/documents/winchester_flyer.jpg (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/pdfs/winchester_flyer.pdf)

Whilst I will count the guys who have indicated on here that they are coming it would help if you register on the helicopter safety site also with a note to say you where one of the PPruners, you don't need to say which one !

[matspart3]

Still happy to host a Gloucester one at some stage if you're interested?

[VeeAny]

Mats

I am interested in doing them anywhere, its just a logisitical problem sometimes of getting me, the kit and the guys who help out, to the venue and overnighting them there, which is why Redhill is normally easy to do.

I am talking to some people at the moment who I hope will be helping out financially.

Gary

[VeeAny]

Sorry guys but we had to make a call on the Winchester Safety Evening this morning and having received a few emails from people who won't now make it as a consequence of this weeks weather we have decided to postpone until later this month or early next month.

I will send out emails to those who have registered later today.

[VeeAny]

Details for the Winchester evening.

10th March 2010 1900 for 1915 at

Avington Trout Fishery
Avington
Winchester,
Hampshire,
SO21 1BZ

As usual there is a page on the helicopter safety site with a flyer for the evening and registration details it can be found here Helicopter Safety | Winchester (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/winchester.asp)

The flyer can be downloaded by clicking on this image
http://www.helicoptersafety.org/images/documents/winchester_flyer.jpg (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/pdfs/winchester_flyer.pdf)

Anyone who is coming please register or re-register if necessary, as some of you will have heard me moaning about the demise of my Laptop Hard Disk in January the most up to date list was on it, and was one of the few things that I didn't get back.

Hope to see you there.

[Robert West]

Please book four from the Winchester area. Thanks,
Bob West.

[VeeAny]

I've sent out joining instructions / directions for Wednesday; in case they don't get through they can be found on the Helicopter Safety Website (http://www.helicoptersafety.org/pdfs/Winchester%20Joining%20Instructions%20Mar%202010.pdf).

We have about 30 people registered for Wednesday, hopefully we'll have another good night.

Gary

[jeepys]

Thankyou Gary for your efforts on Wednesday night at Winchester.
I enjoyed the evening and picked up some helpful points. Ian (Elite) thankyou also.

Not the easiest place to find but a lovely venue and a great spread thanks to Vanguard Helicopters. At least I know where I am going now if there is one there again.

Never been to one before but I thought it was a good turn out and look forward to another down this way in the future.

Thanks once again to Gary and team and Vanguard Helicopters.

[VeeAny]

Looking to sort a North West safety evening and the 14th September is looking favourite at the moment.

Probably also a Wycombe evening while I am up there most of the summer.

Any takers ?

[toptobottom]

Always up for a meet in Wycombe Gary - subject to the silly season not getting in the way :)

[O27PMR]

Likewise, subject to work I'd definitely be up for an evening at Wycombe.

PR