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View Full Version : Jargon: 'short finals' etc


jbsharpe
25th Jan 2008, 19:43
Lots of talk on the LHR B777 incident referring to 'short finals', 'late finals' etc, including various punters critical of the grammar!

Can someone clarify please!

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
26th Jan 2008, 08:32
Yes - it should be "final" as opposed to "finals", although the latter word is commonly used. In layman's language it's when the aircraft is very close in to the airfield during its landing approach, say within a mile or so. "Long Final" is on the approach outside 4 nm but I haven't been able to find a definition for the term "short final" which, again, is in popular use. Pilots and controllers know what it means though. If you are a controller and have three lined up for departure, when someone reports "short final" is when the little window in the side of your head that reads your age starts going round like a fruit machine.

jbsharpe
26th Jan 2008, 09:15
Cheers HD!

:ok:

Randomtox
29th Jan 2008, 09:43
I'm a light aircraft pilot (DA-40) so don't fly the heavy metal. I do mix with the larger bizz-jets (G-V's etc) often at my base airport.

I use long final (note the singular!) for 4 to 8 miles.

Short final means less than 4 miles

This sounds like a long way..but bear in mind that 4 miles (to the *centrepoint* of the runway..which could be half a mile from the threshold or the Navaid that is in use) is not far. 2 minutes at 120 Knots ! 1 minute 18 seconds at 180 knots. Not long.

You don't want to be on (or clearing) the runway when things are that close !

Hope this helps

Random

TheChitterneFlyer
1st Feb 2008, 21:59
Who gives a rats! Singular, plural... who cares? As we've recently seen, it's more important to fly the aeroplane.

HEATHROW DIRECTOR
2nd Feb 2008, 08:41
<<Who gives a rats! Singular, plural... who cares? >>

Yep - precisely the attitude which causes accidents.....

llanfairpg
2nd Feb 2008, 10:51
Short final means less than 4 milesShort final dosnt mean anything and is not contained in CAP 413

However when used short final normally means " Hey controller give us a landing clearance we are getting a bit close"


Yep - precisely the attitude which causes accidents.....

Here Here!

Leezyjet
3rd Feb 2008, 02:55
I have once used the phrase "extremely short final" before.

On approach into UK airfield, a/c ahead had landed an cleared runway, expecting landing clearence soon after, but nothing. Carried on down approach, still nothing, over numbers, still nothing, so Called on Radio " G-XX Extremely short final" to which tower responded "oh umm yes G-XX clear to land" - not sure what they were doing in the tower at the time but any later and I'd have been back on the power for another lap of the airport !!. Was only in a C152 though - nothing big with passengers !!.

Just out of interest HD, I'm still a fairly low houred PPL at the mo. What would have happened if I'd have landed anyway without clearence ?. I could see that the runway had been vacated a couple of mins prior, and there was nothing else manouvering/waiting to cross/on the radio etc. Would I have got a stern talking to afterwards ?.

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