TNT and ATLAS AIR

[partyreptile]

It is being said that Atlas air will be operating 3 747's out of LGG on a 3 year contract with TNT. Any one else have any information on this? Will the EU fake Atlas pilots be operating these flights, or will TNT guys try to lever themselves in the the seats? I believe the operation has already started, any one?

[Cee of Gee]

partyreptile
I wasn't in total understanding of your post, but I hope you weren't suggesting that European crews shouldn't operate within and out of Europe for TNT.
Maybe you should ask the flightdeck crews of Europe, their opinion of N reg A/C & US crews in Europe!!

[Clarence Oveur]

All three aircraft will be crewed by TNT.
One 747-200 is already in LGG. It is still on N register, but that will not be tolerated for much longer by the BCA.

[CargoOne]

who knows what routes will be operated on 747Fs? considering they operated just 757F to JFK.. any info?

[Hunter58]

Far East and North Atlantic, unless they changed their minds again. But I guess it'll be a financial disaster as they are unable to fill these planed with own freight sufficiently to make some money. And the market being what it is, there's no other freight at haldway decent rates to be carried additionally...

The trap of low unit costs! Classical manager mistake. It only works if you can fill the bird without reduction in revenue, but explain that to the common airline cargo manager? You can be happy if he can count 2+2 =4...

[RampTramp]

Hunter58, always thought it was 5 meself!

[deing]

They fly a couple times a week to Africa with it a the moment

[G-WIZZ]

744 + 747 operating LGG-JNB-LGG twice a week.
Word has it 3rd weekly rotation soon.
It's a free market so good luck to AACS at STN !!

[Willie Everlearn]

Let's see....

American company sticks it's financial neck out to set up an air cargo business.
American company puts together the financing of very expensive equipment to enable it to go out and find business for it's very expensive business venture.
American company 'N' registers the equipment because the fickle industry can't decide where this specialized business needs to be based.
American company finds work for costly equipment and ends up basing it in the EU (better know as Fantasy Land) to make it convenient for it's customers.

...snivelling EU pilots reckon they have an exclusive RIGHT to crew the operation based upon American companies choice of basing?

Are you f***in' nuts???

[Huck]

The Guv's gonna be in a three foot hover when he reads that one.

[Willit Run]

Willie,
Well said! We pilots in the US share our cockpits with many people from the EU with EU licences. Why, I guess they prefer to work and live over here. However, if we wanted to live in the EU, we would be put the mill if and ever we could get something longer than a few months. This is by no means a two way street!

[LGW Vulture]

Willie Everlearn - Willie Ever get a life....

US company "N" registers its aircraft cos the industry is fickle eh...

Well, they would be stupid to register it anywhere else. Remember wet leasing.. If you don't have N register you operate in a closed market, ie you don't operate into, out of and internally in the United States. Got it wrapped up ain't they...

F**K the Europeans?????

[Beaver Driver]

So far it's just one 747-400F. Will NOT be crewed by TNT. Will be crewed by Atlas crews (possibly some AACS for as long as they last). Willie - Great post!!! I couldn't agree more.

[Willie Everlearn]

VULTURE

You’re right.
Atlas ‘N’ register their aircraft simply because they are an American company. To do otherwise would indeed be ‘stupid’ as you suggest. To appease our European friends, why wouldn’t they simply ‘G’, ‘HB’, ‘D’, ‘F’, or ‘EI’ register them? Again, as you point out, because it would be STUPID.
Fickle, eh?
Here’s what’s fickle about it.
You folks keep whining about the fact these aircraft need to be ‘G’ registered.
(Why ‘G’ registered? Why not elsewhere in the EU?)
You’ve already stated that would be stupid. So, I’d suggest our argument is dead in the water. Wouldn’t you?

Permit me to quote you…sort of

“Remember wet leasing.. If you don't have G register you operate in a closed market, ie you don't operate into, out of and internally in the United Kingdom. Got it wrapped up ain't they...”
Does ACS ATLAS operate internally in the UK? MMMMMmmmmmmmmmmm……………no!

Europeans have whined over this issue to the point where England’s Rose has been stripped from the offending airframe. Never mind what BA want. Meanwhile, the aircraft continues to do the same job over the same routes. Smart, huh? Never mind the unnecessary cost of stripping it.
Small minds. Small victorys. But, there you go.

ATLAS (ACS) are providing employment opportunities to Europeans with an FAA licence, allowing them to step into a B747-200, B747-300, or B747-400 and all they can do is whine over the fact their aircraft don’t have a ‘G’ registrations??? Are you……
never mind.

I’ve already asked.

[Clarence Oveur]

Beaver Driver, I think that you will find that TNT crews will be flying those airplanes. With their training paid for by Atlas.
All part of the deal between Atlas and TNT.

[Roadtrip]

What ever happened to the infamous 20 Atlas mainliners that defected to AACS? Are AACS crews doing most of the flying while mgmt has mainline crews furloughed?

[TowerDog]

Spotted a B-747-300 with Atlas Air painted in small letters on the side, at MIA Sunday.

Did not think the -300 were certified in the US.
Atlas did the paperwork and got used -300s from Brazil, Saudi or Singapore on the US certificate, or is this a EU registred bird?

(What is that huge upper deck used for?
Any cargo, or just big crew lounge? How many seats?)

[Beaver Driver]

Roadtrip - There are only 13 traitors left. The average AACS pilot averages about 40 hours/mo. while their chief pilots get around 80.

Tower - Atlas has 3 -300 "N" registered and certified. Was part of a recent Boeing MOD/STC. I knew once where they came from but I have forgotten. The Smaller Name and No Logo design is our dip**** CEO's response to terrorism. He thinks it will make us less of a target.

Clarence - According to Atlas memo to crew it will be crewed by Atlas (and AACS) pilots, not TNT. Atlas management has lied to us before, but I don't think they are this time, as they announced it to the world as a contract, not a dry lease. Sorry.
null

[ 19 November 2001: Message edited by: Beaver Driver ]

[LimeyAK]

One 300 came from Sabena, the other two from Varig.
Upper deck has 4 first class seats, 2 bunks, a 400 galley, parts kit and enough room for a decent game of twister.
They are all N registered, operated and maintained.
The bean counters would be foolish to try and reregister in Belgium, current political and economic situation considered.
But, as they have shown, decisions have been made to facilitate them making a small fortune out of a big one.
The reason?.......

:confused:

[Huck]

Atlas Forms Global Network of Three Hubs, Revises Service Plan


By Jim Ott/Special to AviationNow.com

19-Nov-2001 3:23 PM U.S. EST



Atlas Air, a Boeing 747 cargo operator, is launching a three-hub global network with the mission to expand options for its clients including the option of taking a piece of freighter space.

Atlas is establishing hubs at Miami, Anchorage and Liege, Belgium, and putting together a high-frequency flight schedule. Its offices are at Purchase, N.Y.

Experts regard the new hub service as a way for charter operators like Atlas to compete with carriers such as FedEx and UPS. The new service is geared to improve options for clients who have been tending to acquire aircraft on their own, causing the world market for full charters to narrow.

Atlas deals with clients under contracts that cover the cost of aircraft, crew, maintenance and insurance. They are known as ACMI operators on that account.

Atlas officials are hoping that clients expand the use of space in its growing 747 fleet. Major clients are the cargo divisions of world airlines, which use Atlas as a supplement. Other clients include companies like Air Global International of Miami, which works directly with freight forwarders and contracts for the actual cargo shipment.

The new program is a break from tradition. Prior to the formation of this new partnership, Atlas signed contracts with clients to charter an entire aircraft. Under the new program, Atlas is offering clients the option to take a piece of aircraft capacity, known as fractional all-inclusive charters. It also is offering clients partial service to acquire space on certain flights, allowing the clients to expand at their own pace.

"By channeling cargo to central distribution points, Atlas Air provides its airline customers with the opportunity to develop markets and reduce transit time," said Stan Wraight, [cq] senior vice president of Sales and Marketing for Atlas Air, Inc.

The availability of piecemeal cargo service eliminates a risk for clients who formerly were required to contract for an aircraft even if they couldn't fill it for a return trip. That problem in cargo lingo is called "directional imbalance."

Atlas has served each of its new hubs for more than several years. Atlas spokeswoman Rachel Berry said the company has adequate facilities at each hub for loading and unloading cargo for distribution. Atlas has partnered with Jan de Rijk, a Dutch trucking company, to provide ground distribution in Europe. Anchorage will serve the Pacific Rim as well as providing a major entry point for the U.S. Miami will serve the other two points and a reception center for Latin America.

Atlas operates 37 Boeing 747s and has just completed the acquisition of Polar Air Cargo, another 747 operator. In 2000, Polar operated 20 747s and was expanding its fleet with 747-400 and 747-200 freighters. Berry said Polar was likely to focus its operations on the Anchorage hub

[freightdoggy dog]

Atlas to compete against Fedex and UPS.........I don't think so.
And have they overlooked the fact that just down the road is a top notch operator of 747-400s based in Luxembourg?
Good luck anyway cos you are going to need it. P.S don't forget to bring your welly boots, you'll need them in LGG :D

[Clarence Oveur]

Beaver,

It seems that different stories are told at Atlas and TNT.
I know for a fact that several Captains at TNT, have been to an interview/briefing where they were told that their training would be paid for by Atlas, and that all three aircraft would be crewed by TNT.
It will be interesting to see what the outcome will be.

[Noddy Staltern]

AACS are curently recruiting for a Stansted operation on the 747-200F. Can anybody give me any background to the Atlas/AACS story? Was AACS set up as a strike-breaking operation, and if so, is the original dispute over? Any info gratefully received.

[Al Capone]

Atlas Air has recently launched a new product called ' The Atlas Air Partnership Programme'. In brief...they are launching dedicated freighters connecting Latin America North America Europe Asia Africa and the Middle East. This will be achieved by opening 3 new hubs in Anchorage, Liege and Miami.
Let's see..that makes about 6 dedicated B747-400F's operating more than 350 block hours a month. How they do it? Create partnership with ACMI customers such as TNT to get traffic rights on the route. Ok...fine, TNT is sourcing part of the freight. Apart from TNT they are also exploiting traffic route authorities from Polar.
What it does? and what it will do ?

a//It allows a US carrier to hub its operation in the centre of the European Union. Yet have not seen any reactions in the press...

b//Atlas, through its customer base is adopting a 'hop on or get off policy' tying its customers to Block Space Agreement on 6 months contract. Humm, isn't that common carriage?

c//it will create havoc among other scheduled cargo carriers. What are other cargo airlines going to do about this....just let it happen? I wonder what Cargolux, AF, BA, are going to do about this...

d//Atlas Air's plan is to destroy the wet lease concept, compete against its own customer base.

e// Such a 'global reach programme, suggest that Atlas is broke and want's a quick buck out of this.

f// This is a personal view, however a perfect recipe to go bust.

h// Atlas, is something like 10 years old now and should stick to what they were created to do. Would Micheal Chowdry have ever considered swicthing from the wetlease mareket to common carriage??

Your reactions welcome, can anyone see this work?

[GlueBall]

The big picture is that Atlas is top heavy in capacity right now. What's helping to keep the company afloat in its present size are the AMC (Air Mobility Command) contracts and a surge of Christmas cargo.

The US and most of the rest of the World are in a recession that is deep and brutal with no imminent recovery. Too many 74s sitting idle on ramps more than 8 hours per day, and too many crews flying only 41 hours per month eat up lots of cash. Come January, more airplanes, other than just Polar's -100s, will have to be parked! Not a pretty picture. :(

[Huck]

Hang in there glue-ball. Over at the "G-Spot" we're seeing some pick-up in the ACMI world (and NOT Air Force or USPS). Maybe the worst is behind us (I'm praying....)

[backfire 1234]

It is easy to judge, fly the line and see the loads, that will tell you the story. Think positive for a change. :)