Stabilized Approach Criteria for Bizjets

[Silvio Pettirossi]

Do bizjet operators generally follow the same stabilized approach SOP as do the airlines? I mean, while bizjets generally have a lot less mass than a typical airline aircraft, they still have jet engines which take some time to spool-up. Are they differences in these area between operating a light jet like a Learjet 45 or a much more heavy Gulfstream G550? Or is it always a good praxis to be completely stabilized by 500’ VFR and 1000’ IFR in any jet? I was discussing this topic with a colleague and would like to know from you pilots who fly jets because me and this colleague (still) only fly behind or between props:(, thanks for your help!:ok:

[hawkerjet]

Yes, Our company does also.

[falconbis]

stabalize approach concept is a requirement from jar ops 1 so it is in your PART A if you are commercial, now if you are a privat operator it s your call ..some never even eard about this concept !

[Taxi2parking]

...which bit/paragraph in JAROPS is that in?

[Plane*jane]

Flying for airlines TP and B737 now flying Globals I would always advocate safe procedures as in JAR OPS 1...just plough through it. One of the big disappointments in coming to the corporate world is lack of what I would call procedural discipline. There is a mentality of "we're on our own so we can do what we like in the cockpit" that degrades into crappy befuddled approaches and take offs that are masked behind the super helpful bend over backwards pilot on the ground.

Good checklist discipline means no ambiguity rapid and fluid response and no second guessing what the hell the other guy is doing. You really can tell the difference betwen those that have had background in airline or military and those that have not. Since this is a world of self briefing self teaching I would advise you to set up your own levels of what is right/safe and stick to it regardless of what nonsense another may tell you. Charts manuf checklists QRHs and JAROPS will give you all the standards you require. As an example a PF captain blew his top when I as PM put 121.5 on monitor frq when arriving into european airspace. "Don't need it as we are high, never needed it in all my years" what a load of rubbish....I just said "my radios" and weathered the flack....

[kwachon]

Why would you want to fly an "unstabilized approach?"

[falconbis]

Taxi2parking
Chapter 8 of your part A

[pilotbear]

was asked by Cairo to maintain 200 kts to 4 miles yesterday, how stable is that:eek:

[Taxi2parking]

Agreed but where in JAR OPS 1 exactly?

[kwachon]

Funny, Went to Cairo last Wednesday and was asked to keep high speed to 3 miles...

[hawker4000jet]

stable approach mean:flaps down,gear down,constant descent rate,costant speed. basically do not need change nothing.
1000 feet in ifr and 500' vfr is wrong because you stil maintain 3 degree
descent(standard).

[hawker4000jet]

so you tell me that in vfr you are all over the place untill 500'?is
almost 2 mile final.and then you stable? is a little scary.

[EatMyShorts!]

Nope, that is not scary and actually it seems to be the standard-rule in all serious companies (airlines) in the developed world: 1000ft IMC / 500ft VMC. It is safe!

[Daysleeper]

was asked by Cairo to maintain 200 kts to 4 miles yesterday


Meh, he just wanted to make sure you'd have enough energy to get in if the engines stopped :}

[pilotbear]

could be:eek:

[gulfstreamguy]

My company flies stabilized approaches. I've never worked anywhere that we didn't.

Regards

[LCDRP]

so you tell me that in vfr you are all over the place untill 500'?is
almost 2 mile final.and then you stable? is a little scary.


Circling approach. When you have to circle (on an IFR approach), you are VFR in an IFR environment and will use airspace for maneuvering below 1000 feet. Never did like those...:eek:

[Envoy604]

The point being missed is why stabilised approaches came into being. Accident history. If you are in a known environment and not behind the aircraft you are in a better position to cope with the unexpected. The airlines know and understand this. If you don't satisfy what ever your company criteria are, you go round, at least you do if you are smart. Better to face some embarrasment. Five years ago we used not to have stabilised approach criteria, but were fortunate enough to have a smart pilot join us and educate us. The interesting and disapointing thing was some of the more experienced captains, who apparently didn't need to continue learning. Hopefully I will never be in that boat!!

[Sleepybhudda]

ICAO PANS-OPS contains criterea for stabilized approaches 1000ft above threshold for IMC and 500ft above threshold for VMC. Haven't seen it in JAR-OPS.

[filejw]

My company and most around here use 1000' VMC and FAF IMC. :O

[Taxi2parking]

Your so right sleepybudder.......