Phuket Air Safety Issues

[KaptKatoi]

Orient Thai is not alone with incidents in the recent past. This reborn airline called Phuket Air has had it's share of safety issues as well. However, Phuket Air seems to have an in with the Thai DCA as it tends to look the other way and ignore all of Phuket Air's troubles.
Phuket Air had a recent incident where one of their 747-300's registration HS-VAN flew thru a thunderstorm at 37,000 feet with a full load of passengers. Reports from the cabin crew and passengers were of total terror :eek: as the aircraft went into this storm at night in Indonesian airspace. There was +/- 2,000 feet in altitude deviations with the thrust at max and airspeed down to the stick shaker, they almost stalled it. This particular flight was operated by an Italian crew, ex Ocean Air which migrated to Phuket Air. The WX radar, both systems, had been inop for more than 3 weeks.

This incident came after 2 other incidents of altitude busts, one in Saudi Airspace, and another over the Indian ocean with Indonesian Pilots at the helm. Before that 2 back to back departues out of Jeddah with Engine Fire warnings, dumped fuel and returned to Jeddah. They refueled and took off with a different crew and had yet again another engine fire warning, dumped fuel and returned.

Then the recent evacuation in Madinah with a cargo fire warning, see this link in the news http://www.etravelblackboard.com/index.asp?id=73065&nav=2

was yet another incident amongst numerous others that are unreported.

How long can the Thai DCA allow this to continue ? Let alone the Saudi PCA.

:=

[Tigs2]

How long can the Thai DCA allow this to continue ? Let alone the Saudi PCA.

As long as the cultures work on a 'its not what you know, its who you know basis'.

I have worked in both areas, with both CAA's

Your story reference Phuket is a good one, but how do you know some of the details? i.e. speed back to the stick shakers etc.

I have some even more frightning stories about the same organization, but nothing i could discuss on PPRuNe. pm me if you like.

[Phil Space]

I'm afraid that is the case.
Who you know and scapegoats sum it up here in Asia!

The Thai DCA are a minefield and you ain't gonta change them!!!!

[mutt]

but nothing i could discuss on PPRuNe

Ahhhh, Tigs2, that takes all the fun outta PPrune....... :):)

Mutt

[AVNBROKER]

The Thai DCA are a minefield and you ain't gonta change them!!!!

..... Hmmm, I assume that a few dollars in their back pockets allows mines to be sidestepped............did I say that!!:oh:

[Cool Dude]

Apparently the Chief Pilot at Phuket has just been replaced.

The new guy is said to be very experienced and wants to make it a proper airline. Hope he succeeds.

[Rush2112]

As we say in Thailand: "TIT". "This is Thailand."

[Buster747]

Surely you jest cool dude.
Same one, CP that promote the old PIA Captain over training.
Same PIA training Captain caught on airplane administering check ride and deported from Jiddah days ago.
Banned from kingdom reason because overflying restricted area Medina Mousk with PIA.
Think no one see, huh!

[avia77]

All this sounds like a lot of former disgruntled employees complaining ??? what details on the incident. could only be known to an insider???. maybe phuket air owes you monies.

anyway sorry to burst bubble. Looks like Phuket Air has been given another long term extension on their contract. Maybe Saudia knows better.

[mutt]

Looks like Phuket Air has been given another long term extension on their contract

They recently signed a 1 year contract with Saudia for 3 aircraft. New British Chief Pilot appears to be surrounded by Italians. Hope he can recognize the talent that already works there and maximize their potential.

Mutt

[KaptKatoi]

:= I don't like saying those words, but that's where SV is headed with Phuket Air flying for them still. If there was ever an operation that will punch one in, it's this operation. Time will only tell. SV, pull your head out of your xxxhole :uhoh: and get control of your airline before disaster strikes, enough said. :=

[rog747]

i thought they already had? (re punch one in)

isnt one-2-go theirs too init?

[KaptKatoi]

no, One-Two-Go is owned by Orient Thai

[rog747]

ah ok sorry
i though orient thai was the phoenix arising after phuket air so i thought there was a link with them all
cheers though

[avia77]

Heard to the contrary. The management guy is the one who got Phuket Air out of the European ban and got them the SV contract. Maybe that is why the bosses listen to him. Yup, I heard this guy was cutting down on inflated salaries (rumors confirm that active pilots in the SV project are drawing more than $12k per month and on time :ooh:) and getting rid of some old timers. From what I hear these old timers are a bunch of disruptive no good Bangkok based 'desk jockeys' with inflated egos who got them in the mess in the first place. These guys if rumors are to believed flew less or not at all, argued more, managed less, created problems, spread dissatisfaction and still got paid. Way to go, and I guess it was time to go!

[mutt]

I see that they are reducing crew overtime payments and blaming the contracting airline...... :(

For those of you more familiar with ACMI, is it common practice for the contracting airline to refuse to pay overtime for the crews, or is this even their business? After all they would have had an ACMI quote prior to the flight, they either had to accept it or not!

Mutt

[avia77]

This is the lowdown on whats happening at Phuket Air.
Six months ago the airline was pretty desperate for crew (pilots and FEs) to start the SV operation. Most of their old timers had left due to stop in operations for over a year. They had to hired the some of the worst crew available, fly by night mercenaries, trouble makers and bandwagon jumpers who other airlines wouldnt even touch with a bargepole. Some of these guys had the worst personal and professional reputations possible. However they had to make do and start their operations. The CP they hired in the beginning was a no good pilot with a bad atitude and inflated ego. This guy I believe even demanded pay on flights he deadheaded and asked the airline to reimburse his personal bills. Most of these guys bickered among each other, flew at their pleasure and had scant regard for safety norms. As time passed however they were able to hire some better crew and they decided to get rid of these verm**. Now some of these crew who were chucked out including the old CP are going around making highly exagerated claims of safety violations and rumors about delays in pay. From what I have heard, they have some good crew now, who are doing a good job and are also being paid on time. No wonder, SV gave them an extension of their contract :ok:

[mutt]

From what I have heard, they have some good crew now, who are doing a good job and are also being paid on time.
Can you confirm that ALL crew got their January salaries COMPLETE with the OVERTIME that they thought they should have gotten?

No wonder, SV gave them an extension of their contract
That really made my day...... :D Trust me, it has nothing to do with their safety record....


Mutt

[avia77]

Can you confirm that ALL crew got their January salaries COMPLETE with the OVERTIME that they thought they should have gotten?

Yup, heard that there are some issues with overtime pay.

[KaptKatoi]

Hey son, you don't know jack s**t :mad: about anything that happened because your posting isn't correct, not even close. :=

The current CP has only been such for less than 30 days, and with 2 engine fire warnings in a row,(dump fuel and return), a cargo fire warning with an evacuation, 2 incidents of altitude busts, (gross altitude busts with partial loss of aircraft control) , flying thru TRW with no wx radar and almost stalling the aircraft, crew consuming alcohol during flight (that's the operating crew mind you) and the management looks the other way, so what do you know kid. Go do your homework and stop playing with your Mommie's computer. :=

[FO Cokebottle]

The reality is that it is a case of "History Repeating Itself":ugh: and all those who have been burnt are sidelined by those who are about to be burnt.:D

[avia77]

I have surely touched a raw nerve. Boo hoo! I feel really sorry for you. One thing I am now sure of you must be one of the following

1. The former fly by night CP they kicked out, <quote> the no good pilot with a bad atitude and inflated ego<quote>. If you are this guy, did Phuket Air remiburse you to fly deadhead and what about your personal bills?
OR
2. You must be one of the other pilots/FEs they kicked out, <quote> the fly by night mercenaries, trouble makers and bandwagon jumpers who other airlines wouldnt even touch with a barge pole <quote> If you are one of those guys all the best on finding you next part time job.

How do I know this, you may wonder? Hell with the kind of insider details you have and the fact that you are in BKK, you either work for them or were working for them. IF they are so bad as you think, why did you work for them in the first place. If you didnt work with them and you are getting all this from an insider, both of you need to a get a life! and while you are at it best of luck on finding your next fix! If you found one, who hired you? They must be pretty desperate for crew??? I know some other mercanaries who would be intrested in knowing.

[FO Cokebottle]

Dear Avia77,

You little rant says it all.......

......and shows how much you really know of the contract world and those who are/were in it and what they know about "the game".


Anyway, best of luck in your career and I dearly hope, for your sake, your loyality is recipricated. :}

[mutt]

How about sticking with the subject and not "flaming" the posters!

highly exagerated claims of safety violations and
Most of these events are recorded so how can you claim that they are exagerated?

rumors about delays in pay
True or false?

(rumors confirm that active pilots in the SV project are drawing more than $12k per month and on time )
I dont see the problem with that amount for someone flying overtime, but did they get paid on time?

I wonder how long it will be before some disgruntled crewmember has SVA in court due to this :(

Mutt

[KaptKatoi]

avia77 you obviously don't understand junior.

The safety issues are what they are, not fabricated but factual reports that were filed with the Saudi PCA.

As for pay, look at www.climbto350.com (http://www.climbto350.com) and you will see Phuket Air's own ad for crew, the salaries and over time are clearly in print, $ 8,500 for Captains, $ 6,500 for F/O F/E for 75 hours, with overtime paid over 75 hours. These pay rates are below other contract 747 Classic contracts such as Air India and Korean Air.
So for one to be due $ 12,000 a month means that he/she must have flown considerable overtime, which he/she should be duly paid for. Agreed ? what's the problem.

You sound like a Phuket Air management type. Promise one thing and say another.

If it wasn't for contract crews, or mercenary pilots as you call them, (this shows what little you know ) airlines like Phuket Air, Air Atlanta, Logistic Air, Orient Thai, Skystar, and all of these types ect,, would cease to operate because they rely on contract crewmembers.
This is ACMI ops 101, which you obviously don't know anything about.

Take that silver spoon that your mommy has been feeding you with out of your mouth and stick it up your xxxhole :uhoh: then swap frequently. :p

The Saudi's love boys like you, get out the vaseline, you're gonna need it. :D

[avia77]

:cool:KaptKatoi, I really did hit it on the spot, didnt I? My guesses about you being a former disgruntled pilot from Phuket Air were right.

I looked up the website.you forgot to mention the $1500 per diem extra on salary (not including overtime) and free hotel room and board (naturally all airlines give it) that the contract pilots get. And yes if they are are earning over $12K, they are doing overtime. Finally all this is tax free!

If these pay scales are low than AI or KE, it is because of what these airlines are, ACMI operators with old aircraft. These are not national carriers with fleets of over 100 new aircraft, top of the line managers, practically unlimited funding, permanent crew/staff (in addition to contracted crews they carefully hire after a whetting process and security checks) and worldwide operations. With old aircraft and cut rate crew, you are bound to have safety problems. What do you expect? If these guys are flying for cut rate contract airlines like these, it is because they either cant or dont want get a job anywhere else or they are in it for the tax free money. And what do they expect, respect?? They are getting what they deserve, nothing more, nothing less! If they are flying overtime and are not still getting the due, they should leave, go to court and move to AI or KE (if they havent been fired from there or refused employment on applying). And any way, best of luck on going to the kangaroo courts in Thailand or Saudi Arabia!

[mutt]

Understand that Phuket told crews that they couldnt pay January overtime as the contracting airline complained. Now they are advertising on the web offering overtime as part of the package. So whats it to be... ?

And any way, best of luck on going to the kangaroo courts in Thailand or Saudi Arabia!I would be a lot more concerned about crews taking a case in the USA, especially as Phuket have named the contracting airline as the reason crews wont get paid overtime. Have you read the small print in your leasing contract?

Mutt

[KaptKatoi]

"Now some of these crew who were chucked out including the old CP are going around making highly exagerated claims of safety violations and rumors about delays in pay"

Dear avia77 , please define what a "highly exagerated" claim of safety violations would be ? Give us an example please.

"you forgot to mention the $1500 per diem extra on salary (not including overtime) and free hotel room and board (naturally all airlines give it) that the contract pilots get"

so avia77 , do you think that $ 50 a day in perdiem is a high figure ? would you like to see that amount lowered ? apparently so.
Are you a crewmember or management type ?

And as for the "free" hotel room, would you like to have it so that these crews pay for their own hotel accomodation ?? What point are you trying to make ? :confused:

[Flapsup747]

dont usual post on this site but there is lot crap being said here i have to say truth. Have been working for Phuket for few years so know what happening really. Was very bad before but now big improvements, many lies about incidents and new chief pilot. Think ex employees pissed off by sacking and now throwing lies , insults at everybody - none true. Go get life ex employees! :=

[KaptKatoi]

"dont usual post on this site"

Probably because this is your first and only posting ?

"many lies about incidents"


Am sure that the "incidents" of back to back Engine Fire Warnings with fuel dumping and return to the point of departure are all made up then ? And I guess that the Cargo Fire "incident" in Madinah where all passengers were evacuated after fuel dumping and return to point of departure was made up too ?

Where's the truth ? Certainly not with you. :confused:

[Tigs2]

I have a feeling that Flapsup747 could well be a banned avia77

[FO Cokebottle]

Flippedout,

Like you, I have flown with the past CP ( in another company) and the CP before that and the one before that.......and many many others.....arrrhhhh the life of an ACMI contract dog. I miss it but not enough to give up the solid airline paycheck.

Avia77 should realise (if he is a wannabe newbee) that if he wants to learn "the art" he needs to shut the f@#k up and suck in the brain marrow out of these so called washed up captains......because.......these so called washed up captains have come from "real airlines" and have never been personally responsible for an accident nor inccident in their careers.

From my experience Phuket Air is all that is said of it in this forum...any defence is pure blinderness OR speculation in employment longevity. :ok:

[etrang]

The current CP has only been such for less than 30 days, and with 2 engine fire warnings in a row,(dump fuel and return), a cargo fire warning with an evacuation, 2 incidents of altitude busts, (gross altitude busts with partial loss of aircraft control) , flying thru TRW with no wx radar and almost stalling the aircraft, crew consuming alcohol during flight (that's the operating crew mind you) and the management looks the other way,

This is pretty shocking, even for as poorly run an airline as Phuket Air. Can anyone confirm or provide details?

[keesje]

Being from an other side of operations: I know an airline that sold its old but well maintained aircraft to the above mentioned airline & got very warm seeing the way they operated / maintained it. If something happens to an aircraft, often "back to birth" maintenance records have to be made available. So the old operator remains linked to the aircraft they sold. They have become more carefull now in selling aircraft & rather have it scrapped then selling it to such operators for a few bucks.. :ouch:

[Icarus2008]

Waste no more time trying to guess how this company selects team players for this gansters running this outfit. On the one hand, the Saudi's have committed adultery with the harlot, named Saudi CAA receives golden shake $200K to nullify ban of Phuket into KSA, then Saudia Airlines turns the blind eye over maint/safety issues. Elect a new CP to be nothing more than an opportunistic slut while the sun rises back in Europe where he can seek refuge of this barbarism. So far the individual has not been very popular, as he is just a messenger from management and a poor bastard caught in the middle of storms for flying aircraft with no radar at night. Ask his colleagues about his color when he almost lost control of a/c over stormy cyclone over Indian Ocean. Only a slut pomm could dare the punch at night blinded. If this is CP imagine the other slaves caught in that trap of a job??

[mutt]

Can you confirm that ALL crew got their January salaries COMPLETE with the OVERTIME that they thought they should have gotten?

Considering that Phuket is still hiring, is anyone willing to answer the question above?

Mutt

[Icarus2008]

I am not sure in which world you live in to consider returning back to this job based in this dump place under the premise of whether you get or not paid. I can tell you this if you have forgotten, guys have had to stay on their own, to get paid like misserable slaves, you are in jail here until given an exit permit. You are at the mercy of an accident waiting to happen, most pilots if they refure to fly aircraft with No Go's are fired, ask Chief Pilot who is the first one to promote prostitution here, G.A.C.A knows about this and they do nothing because the bribons are paid by Thai gangsters too, so yes to answer your question, you get eventually paid after begging if not being raped, welcome to ****et air!:ugh:

[IGS13]

phuket's latest advertisement in the u.s. says "the overtime rate may be removed". very confusing info about what the pay is between 75-85 hours and what will be paid for flying above 85 hours.

did everyone get paid properly for the hajj??? it seems like phuket is recruiting all new crews again.....must be some valid reason the hajj guys have not returned????

[mutt]

did everyone get paid properly for the hajj???
NO

There is a very interesting letter going around about the inner workings of Phuket Air, i would reprint it here but its highly slanderous against the new Chief Pilot. Certainly not a happy camp at the moment.

Buyer beware :(

Mutt

[MrXrules]

1. January salary not Paid.
2. Overtime above 85 hours 150% cut to hourly rate after Overtime was already flown,managers state Saudi Arabian Airline problem.
3. No work Permits for Thailand.
4. Contract, no ability to enforce it, done just to satisfy government.
5. Seniority lists, big laugh.
6. Dont get caught following the MEL, will be terminated.
7. Dont push the FDT issue, will be terminated.
8. Adverts on climb to350, just to replace ones that complain about safety and pay issues.
9. Safety issues, conditions of the airplanes, threats of termination!
10. New Chief Pilot will never back you up, placed by the boss to be a puppet.

I see someone else posted the majority of safety issues.
Did forget one though.
Airplane flying with only 1 working INS, (VAN) crews given hand held GPS for backup. Been this way for months.
Better jobs to be had folks!

[MrXrules]

Will add one important issue.
The old Chief Pilot would never terminated anyone for refusing to fly an airplane that was not airworthy and stand behind you when it happened.
His background was from a major airline as F/O cokebottle stated, he never has been involved in a accident or incident.
He would say no to the management when it came to crew salary and safety issue that were not correct.
Call him a drunk or what have you, he did his job and looked after his pilots.

[alternatelaw]

I believe that they have or had a wanted Capt. from UK,he was caught bringing drugs into the country and suspected trafficking regularly,fled on an alternate passport back to his abode of peace.
Also a Capt. who went spent some time at Her Majesty's pleasure for being under the influence in the UK,he also went back to the abode of peace. In both cases not for long!I imagine both the Thai and Saudi authorities would be interested in them.Having said all the later was a very good pilot.
I guess pilots these sort of situations have nowhere else to go.
Alt

[KaptKatoi]

I had to revisit this thread with the new posts about Phuket Air these last 2 days. The incidents keep on recurring it seems. The Saudi's need to get control of their airline before there is a disaster with this operation.
They can stick their heads in the sand for now, but it will surely catch up sooner or later. :=

[BMC_b744]

:\ This sounds alarming,I:D hope Saudia can address the issue of safety and Phuket will comply:ok:Cheers

[BMC_b744]

:eek: How can an F/O be suddenly CP of B747 for Phuket:= with out the proper qualification and experience???

[MrXrules]

:=Same reason he was not hired for Midex, not qualified.
Saudi Arabian Airlines is fully aware of any and all safety violations of the leased aircraft Phuket Air.
Saudi Arabian Airlines and GACA has been informed in writing concerning any and all issues addressed here by X Phuket crews.
I fully expect the most recent crews that resigned to expand further.
For Saudi Arabian Airlines to continue operating in full knowledge of these issues more than shows the airline is in a downward tailspin and not a world class airline any longer.
Saudi Arabian Airlines is in such a bad way now they have to rely on these shady operators.
The next step is to wait for the smoking hole, then observe the finger pointing.

[InvestigateUdom]

The FAA is investigating Thailand now, partly as a result of OG269. Do you have proof and/or those letters written to inform Saudi authorities?

www.InvestigateUdom.com (http://www.InvestigateUdom.com/pa), see the "press information" link

[MrXrules]

I hope that recently resigned crew members will pass on any and all info to you and the FAA
If only what half is true then Saudi Arabian Airlines and Thai Arlines should lose there catergory 1 status.
You and the FAA should get this info soon enough.

[InvestigateUdom]

Sadly, its all true. The fraudulent checkrides, maintenance fraud, and rosters showing excessive hours are posted.

Many thanks.

[ZFT]

Thai Airlines should lose there catergory 1 status

What, all Thai Airlines?

Both Bangkok Airways and TG have very good standards.

[InvestigateUdom]

These categories are the FAA's way of rating the Oversight of a country's airlines as a means to ensue safe operations of foreign carriers in the US AND of informing US tourists abroad of whether they can trust the air carriers in-country.

In a nutshell, category 1 is "most trusted partner" allowing a country's airlines tremendous flexibility in the US. Category 2 is a sort of watch list and it significantly limits the rights of the airlines in the US. The only other option is for a country to be de-listed entirely, in which case no flights are allowed into the US.

As described here and in the thread of OG269, the Thai DCA is clearly not doing their job of oversight. The IASA review is already well underway.

You can read more about the program here at the FAA website (http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/?CFID=41555175&CFTOKEN=4290082f1e9f68cd-9BC9A3C9-1372-4132-ED093FCBE328B9EE&jsessionid=4a309bea62263e3b40e6). See evidence of the rating used as tourist information here at the US state department site, Thailand page (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1040.html).

[MrXrules]

Nine pilots resigned there positions with Phuket Air in the past 30 days.
Resignations where direct results of safety issues, non payment according to terms stated in contracts, duty time violations, MEL non compliance and to include intimidation from C/P along with managment.
Hotel accomidations also an important factor.
Al-Badr in a old filthy section of JED, not up to standard for crew.

[Jabba-the-Hut]

A country is given a Category 1 rating if the country’s civil aviation authorities (CAA) has been found to license and oversee air carriers in accordance with International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) aviation safety standards.

Category 2 means a country’s CAA does not provide safety oversight of its air carriers in accordance with the minimum safety oversight standards of ICAO.

It is now known as a fact that Phuket Air is flying with both pilots at the controls being over age 60. We all know that the ICAO age limit was raised to 65 , however one of the pilots must be below age 60 if the other is over age 60. Phuket Air, an airline registered in Thailand and under the Thai DCA's oversight has done nothing to change this practice. I don't make the laws, I only try to abide by the ones that are subject to enforcement action.

Saudi Arabian Airlines is also aware of this but has done nothing to control Phuket Air's gross negligence. Therefore, both Thailand and Saudi Arabia , (in my opinion) should be downgraded to Cat 2 status until such time that Thai DCA and the Saudi PCA comply with ICAO rules and regulations.

The act of purchasing new aircraft from Airbus or Boeing does not mean that these countries are able to oversee the operators of such aircraft.

A big Thumbs down for Thailand and Saudi Arabia.

:=

[KaptKatoi]

Yes, most agreed. The Thailand DCA has absolutely NO oversight of Phuket Air that is operating for Saudi Arabian Airlines 3,500 miles away from it's offices. Phuket Air continues to do as it pleases with threats of intimidation and dismissal if the crews attempt "any" sort of adherance to rules and regulations.
Would you put your family on this carrier ? :eek:

ICAO needs to do the right thing and overlook politics and put both these carriers where they belong, and that's on the ground. :=

[Heilhaavir]

Is WM still the CP there?

[411A]

Looks to me that there just might be a (not so) hidden agenda here, from some of the posters who, having had perhaps a disagreement with either Phuket Air or SaudiArabian Airlines, trying to make a case.
As for trying to revoke category one status for either Thailand or Saudi Arabia (the latter especially)....forget about it, ain't gonna happen.
Politics, you see.
Typing in big letters ain't gonna do it, either.:=

[pacplyer]

Yeah 411A,

Agree with you. There appear to be some real bent feathers in this thread.

World's oldest story:

Boy meets Airplane: falls in Love with small paycheck.
Millionaire meets Airline: falls in Love with oil producing state in trying to keep it afloat.
Boy decides to try to fix airline, incurs wrath of millionaire.

Stay tuned..... They may not live happily ever after...

Changing a whole country's ICAO status based on the practices of a single colluding out of state carrier is, in the real world, not likely to happen imho. Especially not a critical oil/ally state such as the case is here. Who knows at the other end. But at a small outfit, this kind of posting is embarking down a destructive path anyway, for everybody.

A wise bird once said: Job actions are legal and appropriate at some large airlines in prosperous times. So I hesitate to suggest this next option: if it's that bad, and you're still on the payroll, call IFALPA. They've seen this story a million times. Maybe they can give some advice or help broker a compromise.

Just trying to help, that's all.

pac

[Jabba-the-Hut]

Mr 411A, your love for Saudi Arabian Airlines is obvious, perhaps so much that you think it is the same airline now as it was when you were there ? am I reading you correctly ?
Saudi Arabian Airlines has lost the big picture here. Letting ACMI operators carry their flag and name with their junk aircraft is what "is" the big picture.
Perhaps the bold letters will be on the front page of the newspaper after the crash that is coming ?

Why don't you put sensibility ahead of nostalgia.:rolleyes:

[spierpoint jones]

Thank you JTH ,you place your argument with great articulation. There must be a line drawn in the sand.Even if the 'politics dictates otherwise......

jones:ok:

[GlueBall]

But one thing's for sure: SV isn't suffering from price shock at the fuel pump. :ok:

[MrXrules]

These ones now completely out of sorts.
Was said that the CP came into RUH, gate with no marshaler, wrong taxi line and a tow in only gate.
Less than a meter between wingtips of Saudia 777 parked beside them.
Putting on the blinders with this group will eventually get expensive, line needs to be drawn soon.

[mutt]

HS-VAO had an Emergency landing into Cairo this evening due to loss of Hydraulic's... Not sure what system or if it was all systems, but aircraft was towed off the runway.

BTW, have they fixed the CADC in HS-VAN ?? Or is this aircraft still flying around with only set of cockpit instruments?

Mutt

[Baccara Bar]

You people have to understand that any Thailand airline has **** maintenance. Even if they get good crew in, they will be sacked simply because they will not comply with breaking the rules. Chief Pilots are always replaced simply because they will not conform to the rules from above. I would never fly on a Phuket airliner or an Orient Thai aircraft simply because the guys working there cannot get a job anywhere else.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Regarding Mutt's post above:

No specific cause mentioned on RT but crew made it clear no movement from 05L without tow.

Rob

[ZFT]

You people have to understand that any Thailand airline has **** maintenance.

What absolute rubbish. BKP and TG are in a different class to Orient Thai. Don't tar them with the same brush.

[Fool 'n' Tameez]

The issue is more finely balanced that many credit. All it takes is one hull loss or worse a fatality for the situation to get to a head. Maybe not as far as the revoking of category I status, but there would be consequences.

Many in Saudia city are probably holding their breath hoping the new fleet arrive (and the fly-by-nights asked to leave) before any catastrophe happens.

Retiring the A300s before their replacement was sought was a big mistake. However, the situation at the second hand market is becoming more favourable for SV. If they act, they can pick up some quick interim lift. How about China Southern's 772s?

[MrXrules]

Same old Same old thing there.
Aircraft VAC just returned to jiddah, problems again.
Aircraft VAO down for the count, more issues with duct problems.
How long will the Saudi's allow this operation to continue ?
Going to be some heavy explaining to do when they bang one in and all the letters written to the FAA, DCA and others about the unsafe aircraft and crew violations.
The press will have a field day with this one asking why nothing was done!
Added: for those who may be disbelievers watch the ground engineers when the aircraft blocks in.
First engineering item, pour bottled water over the hot brakes to cool them down.
This is just what you can see, imagine what you cannot see!!!!

[ChristySweet]

PacPlyer, your quote

<<<<Changing a whole country's ICAO status based on the practices of a single colluding out of state carrier is, in the real world, not likely to happen imho.>>

Not just Phuket Air but 1-2 Go /Thai Orient.
Look at Phuket Air crash thread ( Sept 16 , 2007 ) and then have a gander at InvestigateUdom.com
Thai DCA is a pit of malfeasance
Besides just one incident that is ignored by DCA is reason enough to downgrade rating .

Not bent feathers, LOST LIVES , and lots of 'em

[classicpilot]

They are a bunch of crooks. The DFO is a very arogant man who thinks he knows it all. I worked for these people. I hope the day comes when these companies find it difficult to find crews. Another company to give a very wide berth.

[ChristySweet]

What's the consensus on Bangkok Air? Any info, same league as 1-2 Go /Phuket Air or can I expect to live ?
Need to fly to Utapao (pattaya) and it seems to be the only choice.

[ozthai]

Bangkok Airways is world class. An excellent airline.
Great pax service..Very well maintained fleet..Honest safety culture..But expensive.

No I don't work for them but have been involved in their crew training.

[ozthai]

Thailand aviation has it's problems .... yes.
DCAT has it's problems as a regulator .... yes.
But your posts are not accurate and are exagerated.

Just by the way, are you katoy ?
From your posts it seems that way.

So now for sure some are wondering what the Thai word katoy means?

[tbavprof]

I used to think Ozthai's assessment of PG was correct, but since the EU blacklisted SiemReap, I have to wonder. Same company, same airplanes, same maintenance, same crew as PG.

Yes, EASA did dump on Cambodian DCA, but they specifically called out Siem Reap for unspecified "practices."

[ZFT]

tbavprof,

I believe the issue is not with PG as such but with the Cambodian AOC

[tbavprof]

See the second part of my comment. In addition to the Cambodian DCA, EASA did single out Siem Reap (http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/pdf/list_en.pdf), but did not provide any details for their action. This is not the same as the blanket ban for carriers from the African countries and Indonesia (see the same link), which would be the case if the ban was completely based on DCA shortcomings.

Given their close association with PG, I admit I was surprised by the ban. I cannot explain the decision, but it leaves some unanswered questions on the table.

[ZFT]

tbavprof,

See PM

[ChristySweet]

Just a bit on the climate of safety in Thailand.

On tues Dec 23 at 14;10 Pm Bangkok Air flight Pattaya, U-Tapao to Phuket.

3 male western passengers lit up cigarettes on the tram on the way out to the plane. The fuel truck was present and still had the static line attached as we approached. These passengers were in the row immediately behind the driver of the tram and the female Bangkok Air staff member who did nothing to stop them.
The passengers then stamped out cigarettes while in line to board and the debris was left on the ground.

About this time I realized I'd been allowed to pas through x ray with a full litre of liquid. I confronted the staff on this fact and the smoking and her response was how did she know I'd brought the liquid from outside the airport?
Because I'm telling you
" Well, you may take it on board, anyway. "she smiled .

U -Tapao, in addition to being Bangkok Air's private international hub, is a military installation with US jets stationed there.
I tried to call the aiport to report these gross safety violations.
The airport operator does not speak English ( International airport) but he gave me another number to call where I was the hung up on twice and passed around 4 times. Not one person in the " Security" department spoke English, or at least pretended not to.
I called Bangkok Air and did speak to a women who's response was,
" Uh Uhhh, Huhhh." Literally.

I did get her name but I seriously doubt this will get passed onto upper management. Even if so ....
"My Pen Rai...." (Don't Worry, Be Happy )

ALL Thai Airlines-Caveat Emptor !

[spleener]

CS,
As a regular pax in Thailand, it's always difficult to gauge the safety standards. Well spotted in U-Taphao!! :ok:
Normally, I travel Bangkok Airways and Thai. Occasionally Nok, and, if I can accept the delays, Air Asia. Never travel 12go/Orient Thai as life's too short. Prefer a cold beer and arrive alive tomorrow.:cool:

[ChristySweet]

Yes we all know about Phuket Air, Udom's OT and 1-2 Die, it's the other Thai airlines that seem to enjoy a false screen of respectability.
I say maybe they're safe- maybe not -but if they are, it's purely voluntary' cause Thailand DCA ain't gonna do it and the US FAA ain't gonna accurately access safety standards..
Can we trust the EU to do it?
And what about the bozos on the ground, in the airports , maintenance crews ? What a nightmare!!


Flashback ; January 31, 2000

Air Alaska #261 MD 83 crash where the tail elevator screw stripped as it wasn't being greased properly- cost too much .
Well, guess what folks - seems the same person in charge of maintenance then at Alaskan Air is now on the FAA board that accesses foreign safety standard adherance... Hold on I'll post her name in a minute .. Investigate Udom has ALL the inside info on this..
88 people died .

[GiveMeABreak]

CS,

I have flown numerous times from UTP with Bangkok Airways and have always found them to be very professional. Please explain why you believe this is a 'private international hub' for the airline. As far as I know it only flies internally to Samui and Phuket from here.

Oh, by the way, I had a similar experience in Venice this year, I had forgotten that I'd put a bottle of water in both my and my wife's hand luggage. Hers was discovered by security, mine wasn't. They looked slightly embarassed when I handed my bottle in !!

It happens everywhere....

[kwaiyai]

Hi Christy,
I dont fly for a Thai Airline but do fly for one landing in 2 Thai destinations.
Dont waste your time approaching the Airport Authority, suggest if you have a safety concern to direct it at the US FAA direct. regarding the 3 T####rs
smoking I will keep an eye out thanks and will delight in offloading them.
Regards,

[Thaihawk]

The US military(or any other branch of US aviation) do not have aircraft of any description based at U-Tapao.They visit on a regular basis,but that's all.

As to taking liquids through security,the Thai phrase 'Mai pen rai' sums up the situation here.The same goes for smoking airside.Security,IMHO at both BKK and DMK is nowhere near perfect on this score,either.

Seeing some of the pond-life brain-dead farang(regretably usually the British ones) that make up the SLF on the PG flights out of UTP,none of this surprises me.

For the record,PG currently operate 2 flights daily from UTP,one to Phuket and the other to Samui.Both are with ATR-72s.The only only other regular operator here at the moment is Finnair with a B757 flight every 2 weeks to Helsinki.There was one of those today.