LWA's L1011

[wheelchock]

Liberia World just got it's first L1011.It's going to be used as a freighter, without a cargo door.They're going to cut up the 88'X125' pallets in 3, so it can move through the entrance door.Very interesting concept.They're looking to buy a total of 4 L1011 all powerd with RB211-22's.Looks like a small operator like them is even beating the ol' Guv's plans.

[cbavoidance]

Loading freight through the main door is not a new concept. Airborne Express (DC8's and DC9's) has been loading their aircraft that way for years, they even developed a container that goes through the main entrance door.
However, I cannot imagine how any freighter operating to and from Africa will make money when it is limited to the size of cargo that will fit through the main entrance door. Cheers, cb

[The Guvnor]

- and especially not with the -22B powered variants!! :) :) :) Whose L1011s are they looking at, anyway?

[1stspotter]

Hi,

At Ostend airport there is a Tristar parked (ex LTU D-AERP). This could be the aircraft for LWA

best wishes
Marcel

[411A]

It is, s/n 1152.

[The Guvnor]

I thought that this aircraft was now on the Bulgarian register as LZ-PTC - is this not correct? Also, D-AERP has been in desert storage for years!! Given the L10's propensity for problems after long term storage (it's been in TUC since 1995) I'd seriously question the viability of this whole deal.

Custom Air Support came up with this particular bright idea of loading mini-containers through the passenger doors :rolleyes: - haven't they (a) worked out how many containers it's going to take to fill the thing; (b) realised they will lose a heck of a lot of volume (ie the height between the top of the pax door and the ceiling of the aircraft - which is why cargo doors are so much larger than pax doors!); (c) realised how long it will take to load - the L1011 isn't a short DC9 or YS11!!; and last, but not least, (d) worked out that the weight of all these mini-containers is going to be astronomical, to say the least!! :) :) :)

Considering the ICAO Safety Oversight responsibilities that the Bulgarian/Liberian authorities will have to put in place to carry out said duties then I'm sure that the L1011 will present a very steep learning curve for them!

All sounds a bit iffy to me!

[This message has been edited by The Guvnor (edited 06 June 2001).]

[wheelchock]

The whole idea is for them (imho)is to replace the 8's.These airplanes can carry over 20 ton's in the belly's (1/2 of a DC8 load) and the rest will go on 88'X125' pallets, not containers (cut up in 3).In any case, they will out perform the -55's, more payload and longer range.I personally don't see the problem.I do agree you can utilize the airplane better with a cargo door.But to out run the 55 series, you don't need it.

[The Guvnor]

Ummm, Wheelchock - if they are going to use pallets which have been chopped up you've got even more problems. Let's look at them:

1) chopped up PAGs are not ICAO certified.

2) even if they were, you'd still need to put the strap connection points all around them, per the existing pallets

3) has the aircraft been modified with a roller floor throughout? If not, how do they intend to move these things around? Airborne's containers have wheels attached.

4) has the aircraft's floor been strengthened to carry the additional loading?

5) has the cabin been modified to the current fire detection and suppression standards and smoke barriers fitted?

As for belly cargo, remember that this aircraft still has the UFG fitted and it has the smaller C1 forward cargo door. This means that you can only load LD3s and not pallets.

As for range, the DC8-55 outperforms an L1011-1 - which is a short/medium range aircraft.

I'm convinced LWA are up to something funny with this thing - especially bearing in mind some of the more exotic Bulgarian exports...! :) :) :)

[411A]

The advertised cargo is flowers......machine parts pay more.

[1stspotter]

Another source of information mentioned the aircraft will be registered either in the Ghanese or Gambian register.

At the moment a lot of weird/illegal cargo in Africa is transported by Russian aircraft. Air Cess/Air Pass/Centrafrican is one of those airlines carrying weapons/diamonds and whatever. Who knows this aircraft will be used for something we do not want to know about. For the cargo mentioned you do not need a cargo door. At least a L1011 is less suspicious looking then an Antonov in Africa.

[CargoOne]

1st spotter,

yep, but L1011 can not land at the middle of the jungles, to operate from uncerfitied grass runways :) antonov planes are defenitely better to carry "agricultural machines" and much more economical to operate than L1011. what's for diamonds - L1011 again the strange choice. any golfstream will be more suitable :)

[JJflyer]

Once nobody thought that LWA might use the L1011 for something else than " Agricultural" equipment. Yes an Antonov with a rear loading ramp is a much better choise for that type of work and much attracts much less attention.

To those who have no airline of their own to show and nothing but big mouth, I have to say that LWA seems to be on the " Less talk and more action" when it comes to L1011 operator wannabes.

What I have heard of, Gambian registration it is, and seems so for the Diesel 8´s too.

[This message has been edited by JJflyer (edited 07 June 2001).]

[wheelchock]

JJ Flyer you took the words right out of my mouth (keyboard).

[JJflyer]

Wheelchock.

I like our profile. Is it so that the order of preference for your interests is dependent on the recency and amount of goods received ?

JJ :)

[wheelchock]

No, JJFlyer.I take whatever comes first.No preferential order.

[1stspotter]

There is some more information including a picture of this L1011 on the forum at airliners.net

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/491220/

The aircraft has a Bulgarian registration. Weird.

[The Guvnor]

If the aircraft is going on the Gambian reg, it won't be permitted to come into the majority of European countries as Gambia is a Category 2 designated country - they regard Gambia as not properly exercising its safety oversight duties.

Ghana may well work, although there are serious questions being asked there about their lack of proper oversight of MK Airlines.

I hear that Hemus Air may well be the AOC that's being used ... Hemus of course have long been in the 'machine parts' business.

Given the length of time it has been sitting in the desert, it would be interesting to know:

a) what heavy check has been carried out on it?

b) has the rear web spar mod been completed - this is now overdue for all longbody L1011s; together with all other outstanding ADs and SBs that are due?

c) where was the maintenance/modifications carried out - and under what authority?

http://www.airliners.net/photos/big/e/exLTU1011.jpg

[This message has been edited by The Guvnor (edited 09 June 2001).]

[JJflyer]

Just call them and ask. I am sure that they are willing to answer all the questions about the checks performed on the airplane.

JJ

[This message has been edited by JJflyer (edited 09 June 2001).]

[Denzil]

Worked msn 1158 (ex D-AERN) during it's freighter conversion/C Check and if this was an indication of 1152's pre storage condition it should be good. If I recall correctly 1158 had already had the spar mod plus the conversion to -200.

------------------
"Noted With Thanks"

[FE Hoppy]

Whats The Pay??????


naarr.................................... just thinking out loud.

[fergineer]

Can hear the brain ticking from here Hoppy and what are you doing up at that time in the morning, Stupid question ignore!!!!!

[FE Hoppy]

I like a little pprune before bedtime you know..........
If KP wants to know I was reading JARs of course.
Off to the sim in the AM probably see you again in July.