Holes nearly line up - but which holes?

[Algy]

Strange story (http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/10007-0.pdf). Anyone shed any light on this?

Resulted in this Fodcom. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD200801.pdf)

[ShyTorque]

I have personally experienced a situation where the fuel was somehow recirculated within a bowser, rather than being pumped to the aircraft, with the fuel guage on the bowser apparently working normally. It was caused by a faulty selection of the valves on the bowser; the fuel was going through the guage and back to the bowser's own tank. Thankfully, I had shut down, was holding the fuel nozzle myself and noticed that no fuel was actually coming out of it.

CRM experts would call this an "unexplained anomaly".

I think in the cold light of day it's easy to claim "it could never happen to me"; however, how many other pilots would have been caught out by this gotcha on the day?

[[email protected]]

Very strange - someone fiddling the fuel delivery and billing to make a few euros on the side perhaps? Difficult to see otherwise how 302 litres of fuel mysteriously disappeared.

[ShyTorque]

Crab, watch my eyes....:rolleyes:

Try reading up one post, eh? ;)

[FairWeatherFlyer]

Do fuel gauges and fuel low lights use independent sensors on all helicopters? I have always assumed they do (based on guesswork rather than knowledge!), so in the aforementioned situation i think i would treat the light as an independent 2nd opinion on fuel state. Of course, you never know 'til you're put in the situation.

I have semi-witnessed a failed hot fuelling before, but the pilot noted from performance that he was too light, perhaps via the benefit of having done a near identical flight immediately before with same taffic load.

[Efirmovich]

I must say I am supprised such a high time pilot did not feel the performance advantage, Solo with little fuel?? When I put 300+ltrs in mine it is quite noticable.

E.

[bananaskiner]

The text reads that after the hot refuel the helicopter hover-taxi'd to a parking area and shut down..? I assume this was close by, the photos give that impression anyway.

So why didnt he just park up anyway and do a normal refuel.? :bored:

Surely it wasnt just because it was "easier" (for him) to do a rotors running.?


Perhaps the fuel was stolen while it was parked up.. although 300 litres is a lot to siphon..!! :}

[ShyTorque]

So why didnt he just park up anyway and do a normal refuel.?

It's quite likely that this was the normal thing to do; it often is done like this at events on grass. The bowser stays put; the aircraft visit.

[NickLappos]

FairWeatherFlyer asked, " Do fuel gauges and fuel low lights use independent sensors on all helicopters? I have always assumed they do (based on guesswork rather than knowledge!), so in the aforementioned situation i think i would treat the light as an independent 2nd opinion on fuel state."

Great question.

Specifically: Civil systems MUST be independent, so that the blinking low fuel light should have warned the pilot that his basic assumption was all wet (sorry for the pun).

Military systems do not have such independence, so the "two" indications could be caused by one fault, ie a low fuel light is often triggered by the gage itself, and merely confirms the low gage reading.

This is also true of transmission oil pressure indicators, where civil regs call for independent readings (an oil pressure switch for the light, a variable gage reading for the gage).

The Feds take caution panel indicators very seriously!

[[email protected]]

Shy - we must have posted at the same time because mine appeared as the second post yesterday but now it is below yours.

Anyway if you read the report it says they discounted recirculation within the bowser because the guage did not move when the bowser pumped air and it is not within the recirculation loop anyway.

Do be accurate if you are going to criticise;)

[ShyTorque]

Do be accurate if you are going to criticise

Crab you are too sensitive. I wasn't criticising; I merely pointed you to my post, which mentioned a similar experience of my own, that could have put me in a similar position to this pilot. What I posted IS accurate, thanks.

Making speculation that someone (who - the bowser operator?) endangered an aircraft in this way to make money by fiddling the books perhaps isn't so accurate.

[Peter-RB]

Being the Old Country , surely its the "Little People" ... thats unexplained:ooh:

Or possibly just Murphy on a finance rebuilding course!


Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

[[email protected]]

Shy - if that is the case then why did you bother posting since your situation was completely different to the Irish one other than they both involved a helicopter and a bowser.

As to my speculation - all the other possible alternatives have been examined and discounted (recirculation or other faults with the bowser, spillage, fuel guaging errors on the helo etc) so what remains is that the bowser team billed the helo for 300 litres of fuel that never actually got pumped into the helicopter...what do you reckon happened Sherlock?:)

[Hughes500]

I have seen on a few bowsers meter readings being wrong. Everytime this has happend when the bowser is nearly out of fuel. The pump starts to suck air as well as fuel, the meter still turns but you are getting way less than the meter says. This only happens for about 30 to 50 litres though. The same will happen after the bowser is refilled. The slug of air left in the pipe and filter tends to upset the meter for the first 20 to 30 litres. Mind you none of this would be for 300 litres.