F/O on a 737 at just 19

[Phil Space]

Is this a record? Can't be many 19 year old who made it to the flight deck of a 737!

From the UK Daily Mail
Britain's teenage airline pilot: Meet the 19-year-old who flies holiday jets to the sun


At the age of 19, Ed Gardner wasn't old enough to drive a bus, and in most countries he would have been too young to hire a car.

Yet, despite his youth, he was cleared to take the controls of a Boeing 737 and for the past three months has been flying tourists off on their holidays.

Mr Gardner, who turned 20 in December, is thought to be the youngest passenger pilot in the country.

He received his commercial licence on October 5 while still a teenager. Within a day he had started work with Stansted-based charter firm, Titan Airways.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2008/01/14/nplanes114.jpg

Since then he has been sharing the cockpit with his father, Bob, 55, who is an experienced airline captain.

Mr Gardner, who comes from Stebbing near Stansted in Essex and who started flying at 14, said: "My dad never pushed for me to become a pilot but as soon as I said I wanted to do it he was pleased.

"He put up the money to do it and I'm paying him back. He's been very helpful. I flew solo at 16 and got my private pilot's licence on my 17th birthday."

He has passed a number of exams including instrument training and instruction on flying a Boeing 737, which holds up to 200 passengers.

Mr Gardner was so keen on flying he was able to pilot a plane before he had even started learning to drive a car.

After studying A-levels at the Helena Romanes School in Dunmow he went to the Metropolitan University in London for his air transport pilot's licence written exams, passing first time.

He then went on to Stapleford Flight Centre for instrument rating, another pilot's training course and then Boeing 737 training.

His first job with Titan Airways was flying mail between Stansted and Exeter. The first passenger flight he piloted was to Rostock in Germany.

Mr Gardner said: "I was excited but you don't really get to interact with the passengers.

"As first officer you do pretty much the same as the captain except you can't taxi on the runway.

"Of course the captain is in charge overall but if they fly to Malaga, you fly the plane back, for example."

He said he had not told his passengers how young he was.

Mr Gardner, who now flies regularly to Europe and Africa, said simply about the way his career had taken off: "I think I just came along at the right time." As for his father, he added: "I think he's very proud."

Rob Giles, 737 fleet manager for Titan Airways, said Mr Gardner was the youngest commercial pilot he had hear of.

"It is not without precedent at 21 or 22 but most people do something else and then come to flying so they tend to be older," he said.

"But there is no reason why a teenager shouldn't be able to do the job. Ed is a very competent pilot and ticked all the boxes. It's good getting youngsters into the company - we need some new blood."

A spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority said that although it was possible for a 19-year-old to fly a passenger jet, they would not usually be given the chance to do so until they were a few years older.

The authority's records show that no teenagers were given the right to carry passengers in the years 2004 and 2005. Pilots need to be at least 18 to hold a commercial licence.

[Dream Land]

Way to go FO Ed Gardner :ok:

[elac2]

I know somebody who flew B757 at 19 a few years ago!! His old war story was that he flew to MCO as F/O and was not allowed to the bar for beers with the crew so the girls left him in the car park with a bottle of coke and a packet of ready salted!!!

Well done to Ed, keep up the good work.

elac2

[parkfell]

I think you will find that BA had at least one FO trained by British Aerospace, Prestwick in the early 1990s' was line checked aged 19.
:)

[Final 3 Greens]

As a frequent traveller, I am much more impressed by the chap holding an ATPL than being 19:ok:

If they have the required knowledge, skills and experience, then give them the opportunity, I say.

[Spartacan]

A commendable achievement. I flew with a guy who had been an FO with Monarch at nineteen. The only problem with this is the risk of getting bored with the job early on. Imagine flying commercially for 46 years!

[interpreter]

However, without wishing to detract at all from his magnificent performance one of my former Royal Air Force colleagues flew Lancasters in the last war - you know 600 miles out and 600 back at night being shot at from the ground and shot at by night fighters , night after night- and suddenly realised that the average age of his crew was 19 yrs 5 months! He was 20 yrs 6 months as pilot in command - and the Lanc only had one pilot. Ah well - thank goodness those days are over.

[twistedenginestarter]

The comparison with Lancasters is interesting but they were expected to get shot down and/or killed every handful of flights. In the airline business, that tends to disrupt schedules.

[drag king]

Just a q's out of the blue...

Does Titan hire 0 (zero) TT on type? If anyone has the knowledge he/she should be given the chance, but having dad on the LHS helps a lot...:E

Still, congrats Ed!

DK :ok:

[QCM]

"As first officer you do pretty much the same as the captain except you can't taxi on the runway". (quoting Phil)

Sh!t at 19 he's already one of these guys thinking there's not much differences between left and right seat!!:ugh::sad:...hope experience and white hairs will bring wisdom!:rolleyes:

[ORAC]

Robert Sidney Bowen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sidney_Bowen) - Fighter pilot and ace in WW I at 14 years of age.... :ooh:

[mightymouse111]

I can't congratulate him as he has only done what the rest of us have done, except that his father has funded it all and got him a job - yes that quite an achievement!!!!

[A Very Civil Pilot]

I can't congratulate him as he has only done what the rest of us have done, except that his father has funded it all and got him a job - yes that quite an achievement!!!!

Yawn!! What is the problem with a parent investing in their childs future. I bet yours gave you best part of 18 years free board and lodging.

BTW Ed - congratulations.

[Mat Finish]

If only my old man had paid my flying/living costs, and got me a job with his airline.. ummm.. I would have been 18!

Mat Finish
never a shiny moment..:suspect:

[randomair]

I always query the motive of people that go to press about their achievements in this fashion.

I along with a handful of other people have been airline pilots on jets since 19, yet have not had the compulsion or desire to chase after the newspapers to tell my story. It's all circumstantial to whether you start your training at 17 or 40. I luckily had support from my parents to help back up loans etc...but why is that any greater achievement than working for 10years, funding your own training, as the financial backing, and in this case contacts (daddy fleet manager) weren't there.

It all strikes me as a bit desperate.

[727gm]

Robert Sidney Bowen is not listed in theaerodrome.com/aces

[Parapunter]

You presuppose that the family approached the press. You cannot know that.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Not sure if this should be copied to the military forum. A colleague of mine in the 1980's made it to First Officer on the VC10 at Brize Norton as a 19 year old Pilot Officer. Last heard of as station commander at RAF Lyneham. Way to go Piggy!

[WHBM]

If I am not mistaken, BA (or even BEA) years ago, when they used to do all the training themselves, would take cadets at age 18, and there were therefore a number of FOs on the old fleet then who were FOs on Viscounts, One-Elevens etc by age 19.

[hushkit77]

so when did Titan advertise vacancies???

[gatbusdriver]

stop whining you bunch of miserable buggers. i wasn't sponsored by my family either, but i don't begrudge the young chap. i say good luck to the fellow and well done.

as for going to the press, you will probably find it was the airline who released the story. a bit like our airline went to the papers when we had a husband and wife flight deck.

[OBK!]

Who's titan? And why didn't I go to the papers? Bummer.

Few more months in the industry before he realises how cringeworthy the article is! But welldone tho, hope they're paying you, and remember, listen to your ol' man ;)

[Say again s l o w l y]

Quit the whinging. Good on him. He's had help I'm sure, but so what? How many of us can say that we haven't had any help in their career? I can't.

[hambleoldboy]

I was awarded an RAF Flying Scholarship in 1968 at White Waltham and flew my first solo aged 17 and 2 weeks. I later graduated from the College of Air Training Hamble aged 19 and went straight onto the 747 for BOAC as a Second Officer. Training costs nil, bond £1000 for the first 5 years...

I quit at age 50 having probaly enjoyed the best years of commercial flying, averaged 35 hours per month...

[SoundByDesign]

I'd rather one of my Sons drive a 737 than an XR3i cabrio. anyday.

Well done Ed, listen to your Dad, fly safe and i wish you blue skies.

SBD ..

[ZFT]

There are some incredibly sad, jealous people posting here.

Good luck to the lad. Enjoy the next 25K hours. I’m envious!!

[Doctor Cruces]

Agree, well done young man.

Fly safe

Doc C

:):)

[Skintman]

Needs to learn how to shave now !!

Only kidding, well done Ed, if you've passed the course, then you're good enough.

Best wishes in your future career. Now go and tidy your room.

Skintman

[CABUS]

Well done to him, as ZFT correctly says a few jealous people around, me included. He clearly has done well and had to pass the same exams as everyone else, financial help of not, its still not easy!:D

[Dave Gittins]

I first soloed in a Slingsby Cadet Mk III in the 1960s and my dad had to take me to the airfield as I wasn't old enough even to get a provisional license. ..... And I had to sit in the car in the pub car park with pop and crisps on the way home.

38 years later I have still only made it to PPL 1st class and yes I am a sad and jealous - OK scrap jealous I mean envious - (but probably a lot better off) bugger.

Well done Ed I say .... :D

[Dan Winterland]

An acheivement, but in no way unique. The youngest Captain however, is an achievement. My youngest Captain was 22 - on a 4-jet! And on another fleet, my employer had two 4-jet Captains who got into the left seat with less than 1000hrs total time. And one was a girl. Beat that!

[SUPER HANS]

What's all the fuss about, this is just the tabloids getting excited. The flying tests are easier the younger you are, I'd be more impressed if someone passed all the exams first time and got their first job at 55.

[moosp]

WHBM, Hambleoldboy,

Yes we were a bunch of spotty faced youths at Hamble in those days, but beware those who claim extreme youth. My years are similar to oldboys, and I remember the youngest on my course, who graduated aged 20. 2 weeks leave then into a BEA/BOAC training course. It was very rare to be cleared to the line before the age of 21.

And then we were kept alive by a very experienced Captain and another more experienced F/O, and if you were lucky, a flight engineer.

Nothing wrong with flying a 727 as a teenager, as long as you have a system that covers and acts as the long stop on the ability level.

[Phil Space]

Congrats from me as well Ed. I'm sure the jokes and sarcasm will bounce of you.
Best wishes and happy flying.

[niknak]

There truely are some cynical people with very large chips on their shoulders out there.

This chap has made a real effort and achieved his dream, well done and the best of luck to him.
So what if he's had financial assitance from his parents, my son wants to be a pilot and my daughter a doctor, I am going to have to pay for most of that and, although I'll probably have to rob a bank on be an incompetent CEO of a multi national who the gets fired, to fund it, I don't begrudge them for one moment.

It should also be noted that this chap's employers, Titan, are one of the few decent and thoroughly honest employers leaft in the airline industry - I don't know of anyone who's ever not enjoyed working for them.
I've no doubt that they've chipped in for some of the training, even if it wasn't a direct financial payment, so they're entitled to milk it for all they're worth.

[El Lobo Solo]

Seems like a lot to do about nothing. Maybe there should be a thread for everyone who passes training and makes it to the line. woooohooooo!:rolleyes:

[M.Mouse]

The sort of story that newspapers love and all credit to him for achieving the qualifications so young. Despite having the money the hurdles still have to be jumped.

The youngest Captain however, is an achievement. My youngest Captain was 22 - on a 4-jet! And on another fleet, my employer had two 4-jet Captains who got into the left seat with less than 1000hrs total time. And one was a girl. Beat that!

In conversation with my FO on a recent trip he told me in conversation about types flown previously that he had flown the Electra for Air Atlantique. I later learned that he gained his command on it 2 days after his 21st birthday. As you need to be 21 or over to have a command on an aircraft of that type (I believe the criteria is weight) he is probably the youngest ever person to do so. He was extremely able but at the same time very modest and recognised that a fortuitous set of curcumstances had led to the achievement.

Edited to correct my error in referring to the Merchantman when the aircraft was actually an Electra.

[kingpost]

Well done young man. Do the cabin crew breast feed you on your trips?

This is the sign of the times, next will be the MPL's. I'd prefer to have someone sitting next to me who did bit of charter work and has had to make a few decisions along the way.

Congrats though, I'm sure the old man is chuffed

[Julian Hensey]

Of course we would have also seen Daniel Swaddle on the flight deck if he had lived to see his 19th birthday.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m0b57Cz7IcA#GU5U2spHI_4

[gatbusdriver]

We all reach our goal by many different paths. I was lucky enough to get a cadetship. Some guys have family pay for it. Some get the BA golden ticket (not any more). Some people got 3 jobs one of which was instructing.

Firstly, this story is in the Mail, not always known for being factually correct, especially on aviation related matters.

Some people need to lose the chips off their shoulders (Flying Clara).

[chris-squire]

I'm very envious of this guy. If all had gone to plan I would have had my fATPL at 19 but like lots of people it didn't so am just starting out but should still have mine by 23 1/2 so can't complain. Don't begrudge this guy his 5 mins of fame. Yes it's a bit cringeworthy but he's made the best use of what he's got including his contacts to get him to where he is now.

Can anyone dare to say that they wouldn't do the same??? If my ol'man was a Cpt for a charter airline then I wouldn't have any qualms in grabbing the opportunity.

CS :cool:

[Phil Space]

Firstly, this story is in the Mail, not always known for being factually correct, especially on aviation related matters.

It was actually an agency story lifted from a local paper and appeared in a number of the UK nationals.

Reading some of the replies to what is a nice story there are some sad bitter people out there.

[FAStoat]

As someone old enough to know the Vanguard/Merchantman,I dont ever remember Air Atlantique(Mike Collet ,if I recollect) having Merchantmen.Air Bridge Carriers were the last users of the Freighters,after Invicta at Manston.I knew a lot of Air Bridge pilots ,some of whom went on to the Belgians continuing as Freighter Pilots.The point though is that there have been loads of 19 year old F/Os on modern jets.A great friend of mine,but an Ex crabfat,has a Son at BMI who must have only just reached 19 when he passed his line training,and is scheduled to be the youngest Captain.For various reasons,the Attractive F/O seems to get the best chance of an early command still.An F/O I flew with,and very young went on the command a 319 in her early 20s,and may command a 330,unless she has now got kids!!!I think M Mouse might be confusing the Huge Merchantman with the Electra;only a 14 Ton payload but still 4 turning and burning ,which Air Frantic had most of the survivors of.Anyway good luck to this guy,and I hope he can back up his Captain,with some common sense in his hour of need.With the changes of weather now,this will soon happen.

[Bus429]

By reputation, I would be thought of the first to have a go at pilots...;)

Good on Ed, good luck in your career.

Arthur Aaron VC won that accolade after landing his Stirling safely despite having had most of his face shot away after a mission to Turin; he was 19 (and the VC was posthumous)

[Taildragger67]

Good on you son; the naysayers here are all just jealous.

For the age comparisons being run, the RAAF had a F111C driver aged 19 a few years back.

[sky9]

In the 60's and early 70's people came out of Hamble, Oxford and Perth after 15 months training with a CPL and I/R. Assuming that they commenced training after their A levels about half must have been teenagers when we joined our first airline.

The incredible thing was that at the time we knew everything there was to know about aviation, learned in such a short time too!!:O

[lordsummerisle]

M Mouse,

Think you may be referring to KC? Was actually captain on the Electra at 21(Think was in the Guinness Book of Records as youngest public transport Captain on an over 50T aircraft or somesuch)

Think he prefers to forget being a hostie on the Dak though!

Real good lad, and pleased to hear he's doing well, tell him hi from CC

[jb5000]

Why are there so many bitter individuals having a snipe at him because he didn't have to do things the 'hard way'?

I walked into an HSBC and got the full loan for all of my training (unsecured), and I now have a jet job. Yes my parents probably helped me a bit along the way but I didn't have to do 3 jobs at once to pay, or get involved in instructing.

Am I fortunate? Of course I am, I am under no illusions about how much I have to learn.

Was it easy? Categorically... No.

[CABUS]

I am very saddend to see that a young chap gets a job good job and a select few start attacking it.:( I think anyone who has passed the Class 1, Ground school, CPL,ME,IR and enjoyed the MCC deserves congratulations especially those who have managed it at BOTH end of the age ranges and even more so if faced financial or medical difficulties.:D


As I am sure most people will agree this industry can still be based on who you know and having a bit of cash to pay for the training. So for the people who are bitter they dont know anyone in the industry who can help them why not kill two birds with one stone like I did and work as a flight dispatcher for a few years. I earned the money for all the training and living, learnt loads about the industry, had a great time and made loads of contacts who have really helped. Personally I think a pro active approach to getting to know people instead of moaning that someone else if fortunate works! He has been helped get on the ladder and I am sure in the years to come will help others.:)

[airborne_artist]

The 2 i/c on my first (training) squadron was a Lt Cdr Royal Navy who had, IIRC, some years before, been fixed wing (F4, probably) carrier qual'd at age 19 and half. Beats a PlayStation.

[M.Mouse]

Sorry I meant the Electra, Thanks for the correction, I never was much good at aircraft identification.

I have edited my post at the top of the page to correct the error.

[interpreter]

Well, well, well you fellows must have been kept in the air with an Engineering Director by the name of Group Captain (Retd) F E Stokes. All PA28s wasn't it in those days?

[fireflybob]

All PA28s wasn't it in those days?

Actually no, there were still quite a few Chipmunks too - I did some of my basic on the Chippie when I was at Hamble in 1969/70.

Oh and by the way, I was flying the B707 when I was 20 years old for the record. I remember well going to the USA on one of my early trips and not being allowed to enter a bar as I was under 21 years to the amusement of the rest of the crew. I also had a cabin crew sign me up in the "Junior Jet Club" - I was not amused!

[WindSheer]

It's interesting to see all the jealous posts, and the criticism against them!!
I for one am chuffed for the guy, but on the other hand am slightly annoyed!

I am 28, and have finally found a job that should fund me enough to pursue my licence over the next 4 years, I then face the battle of getting a job.
Would this young chap have gone down the same hard graft route......gaining the licence is one thing.....but to me, earning and plucking up the courage to invest a life changing amount of money is where the credit lies!!

All the best to you! Look after your career appreciate what you have got!!
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Mr @ Spotty M]

It's in the Telegraph today with the heading "This is your Captain speaking".
Well done to him, but on the other hand does he realise that one of the B737 he is flying is only just younger than he is, one of the fleet first flew in Aug 88.:ok:

[st patrick]

I joined Aer Lingus in 1988 as a cadet (yes I know how lucky I am and still appreciate the opportunity I was given). About 60 of us joined that year at least 5 of whom were 18 and a few of these had literally left school 2 months before. All of them were in the right seat of either a B737 or a BAC 1-11 when they were 19. I wish the F/O mentioned in the article the very best of luck in his career and I hope he enjoys it as much as I still enjoy mine, despite the massive changes we have all seen occur in this business over the last 20 years.:ok:

[six-sixty]

This is a load of fuss about nothing. The guy doesn't deserve criticism or bitterness, but he certainly doesn't deserve special praise either.

[fokkerjet]

Same Bob from Ford Air?

[RAT 5]

Slight deviation, but never mind. Had a colleague yonks ago wo was skipper on an F27. A/c diverted from Norwich to Leeds. Told to use company credit card to hire vehicle from Hertz and drive home. No could do as whole crew under 25?? Makes you think, eh?

[LRdriver II]

Same Bob from Ford air yes..

Nice kid though.. chatted with him at Andrewsfield where he was washing airplanes, fueling and working behind bar. Shows that he is into aviation instead of the rest of the whiney twonks who roll straight from ab-initio school into a 737 and think its their birth-right..

[sevenstrokeroll]

I would imagine that the great majority of pro pilots on pprune could have duplicated this,if we had someone pay for our flying and an "in" at an airline.

[roll_over]

So what if his parents paid and got him a job at the airline, you would do the exact same for your children and if you were in his situation you would expect it as well.

We are forever criticising those parents that don't take an interest in their childrens future and when they do...

[propaganda]

Willie Walsh was an Aer Lingus F/O at 19 yrs - look where he ended up .

[sevenstrokeroll]

ok, who is willie walsh?

[stormin norman]

'He put up the money to do it' - beats coming from a council house background !

[Glassos]

Had a friend in the SAAF who was flying Buccanneers by 19.

[fokkerjet]

Same Bob from Ford air yes..

:ok: Thanks

[Union Jack]

Seven

ok, who is willie walsh?

Funnily enough, they once asked the same question at BA!;)

Jack

[Deano777]

beats coming from a council house background

Care to elaborate on that statement?

As for this lad, yeah good on him, I am pleased for him. I'm not jealous or envious as I have my own job but I do agree that it is no more of an achievement than most of us here. I found a great job & left school at 16, I am old, I took the modular route, does that make my 1st airline job an achievement too? Just because people are saying the same does not make them jealous, they're speaking the truth. Big deal, the lad has done well for himself as have most of us but what has he done that's so fantastic?
Also if my 2 small daughters want to fly when they are older then of course I'd do my best to ensure they get what they want, as a parent you always want what's best for your children, but if they think I am paying for the weddings as well they are in for a shock. ;)

[MidgetBoy]

I've seen people go from 0 hours to their 200 req for CPL (+ME IFR) in Canada in 8 weeks. Not to mention, A LOT of people getting CPL at 18, it's just that most people don't have a dad that can give them a F/O seat on an airliner jet.

Oh right, I heard from a friend that there was a 16 yr old F/O that worked in some small china airline working as a translator but was considered F/O as he also knew how to fly aircraft. (Nothing large, but you know china!)

[HotDog]

There were plenty of 18 year olds flying Spitfires in the RAF during WW2.

[LVLCHG]

I agree.. a lot of fuss over nothing. It is not uncommon these days to see FO's at early 20's. A friend of mine was 19 on the 737, now on the airbus with a major UK airline, and certainly wasn't the first or last in the country. It's confusing why this guy is being made out to be any different by being put in the paper..when really...he is amongst many.

[Melax]

Hey if the guy is experienced and responsible, I rather have him fly me than that 50 year old with tons of problems (at home), may be frustrated and perhaps already physicaly diminished. Oh yeah before you flame me, I'm about that age (50ish)
Congratulations man, I wish you the best!!

[sevenstrokeroll]

ok, please, I give up...who is willie walsh and what is the story?

I mean, I would share with you the best place to eat at KBOS...give me a break.

[A330Ryan]

I think the coverage in the paper will be nice for him to look back on when he's older! :D I would read the papers more if they had less doom and gloom stories!

I'm cabin crew and at my previous airline I told people I was leaving because I wanted to be a Purser they thought I was mad and too young.. (I'm in my 20's) Just goes to show many people younger than me are in much more responsible jobs onboard our a/c! :D

[Mr @ Spotty M]

OK "sevenstrokeroll", l will help you out, but you could have used that well known search engine.
He was the brought in as the CEO of Aer Lingus when they were in the deep you know what and turned them around, now he is CEO of the airline that can lose more luggage than any other, that is BA.:ok:

[tupues]

'Well done young man. Do the cabin crew breast feed you on your trips?'

You are some strange man. :rolleyes:

[llondel]

They interviewed him on our local radio station this morning just before 7:30. Good luck to him, hope he's still enjoying it in later years.

[My 737]

Well done to him, but he is not the only one. Around october 2007 a guy from Iceland joined FR when he just turned 19. Took his ATPL's and finished his A levels together.
I think they've done well, but take it easy in the media.
Safe flying.

[M.Mouse]

sevenstrokeroll, Willie Walsh was an Aer Lingus sponsored cadet, became qaulified, went into management and eventually landed the CEO role in BA.

[fade to grey]

Good luck to him,
Whatever your views it still takes time,effort,peristance and ability to pass the licence and TR,

Surely if my old man had been better placed at the airline he worked for I would have tried to get in the same way....

I am starting to feel old....look at the crew manifest and they are all born in the 80s..... arrrgggh I'm 35 midlife crisis in the post

[StressFree]

Fokkerjet,
How you doing TW? Hope all is OK.
It is the same Bob from Ford !!!!!!!!!
Best regards :ok:

[Dream Land]

We should rather title this thread "Thanks Daddy " Yes, no slack given out at PPRuNe, classic. :}

[LateFinals]

"As first officer you do pretty much the same as the captain except you can't taxi on the runway.




PPL / SLF here, 'scuse my ignorance, but why not ?

LateFinals

[Deano777]

Because most aircraft has the nose steering tiller on the left only :)

[Dream Land]

Sorry for the thread creep in advance.
"As first officer you do pretty much the same as the captain except you can't taxi on the runway.



PPL / SLF here, 'scuse my ignorance, but why not ?

LateFinalsIn todays cockpits there are hundreds of FO's with less than 500 hours total flying time, are they captain material, I think not, being a captain is all about making a lot of decisions based on good old experience.

[mikecanuck]

Most cadets of Asian airlines became B737 f/os at a relatively young age. I heard that some join their national airlines as cadets after their " O " levels at 16+ and get their CPL by 17 or 18. After some sim and line training, they are second officers on B734 by 18 and after passing their proficiency check at 1000 hours they acquire their B734 f/oship at 19!

[The Moo]

I was operating a flight at British Midland 10yrs ago,and I was the oldest crew member at 25 that included the Cabin Crew and Pilots.

[Pilot Pete]

Hey if the guy is experienced and responsible He may be one, but I doubt he is the other yet.....:cool:

Good luck to him in his career.

PP

[sevenstrokeroll]

thanks for telling me who willie walsh is...but how does his CEO experience have anything to do with a young 737 copilot? was willie young too?

[Dave Gittins]

I think that further up the thread it says that Willie started his aviation career as a 19 year old F/O with Air Fungus and has now climbed to the dizzy heights of CEO of Baggage Astray.

[dazdaz]

Deano, this might get shifted to the questions forum but here goes.....
Q: If the f/o can't taxi an a/c when does he practice prior to sitting in the LHS ie future promotion?

Daz

[Dave Gittins]

In the SiM ????

[AirbourneGSYBOY]

Hey all,

I finished my ATPL at OAT (please no OAT vs........ discussions) in sept at 18.... been in the selection process at BA for last 5 months and am now a FO on the 737 at LGW. I believe i am slightly younger than Ed but would like to congratulate him an his achievement also as we all know how hard it is to get here!

Im sure there are some very experienced captains on this thread and would like to ask you what you think in having such a young FO next to you?
I know (as im sure you do) that by getting to the position i/will are in obviously means we have the skills/qualities to be there but wondered whether many of you had any other views?

Happy flying!

PS my father doesnt wk for BA.... infact isnt even a pilot but if he was i would of used him because lets face it..... after 80K you do what you do to get an airline job!

[Pilot Pete]

Im sure there are some very experienced captains on this thread and would like to ask you what you think in having such a young FO next to you? No different to any other F/O in my opinion. Obviously when you are new, you will be like any other new F/O in that you lack experience. You've passed the training and proved you have the ability to be there, now you need to build the experience and route knowledge, whatever age you are.:ok:

Good luck all you young guns!

PP

[busz]

Makes me feel old, started flying the 757 at 21, now a rather mature 23, hmmmmph

[ONEWORLD_86]

Would agree with the posts above, I picked up my Airbus rating at the age of 19, and i thought nothing of it at the time and still don't.

When people occasionally ask as to my background and pick up on the fact that I got my licence at a young age they don't even bat an eyelid, and I wouldn't want them to. After reading the article yesterday though I was a bit confused as to what the song and dance is all about.

After I started in the right hand seat all I wanted to do was get my head down and get stuck in, I can appreciate that he is proud of his achievements but maybe this PR stunt wasn’t the best way of celebrating them.

[philleas fogg]

i remember ,many years ago, a saudi pilot with saudia airlines got command on a B747 at 29 ! is that a record ?

[Hell Hole]

I didn't do my PPL until I was 25, 737 command at 41. A late developer. Now I find myself trying to be 19 (or younger) again.

Does this count & do I win £5.

Thought not.

Hell Hole

[Pilot Pete]

Nah, 'fraid not. I started PPl at 29 and got 737 command at 38.;)

PP

[AirbourneGSYBOY]

Good to know guys i think nothing of it either..... just wondered whether anybody else did!
Any way head down and experience experience experience!

[Melax]

They are a lot of 19 years an younger more responsible than "older people'' so you can't just assume that because he is 19 is isn't responsible !!

Once again I wish him the best ...

[vivace]

In this current airline climate,its no big deal anymore to be flying at an early age.Anyone can get a job now, its a matter of paying for the license and in this case 'pater' was in the airline. In particular the airline is not a mainstream one, so begs the words, 'so what!'. Good for him,hes done well but certainly not a 'news' item. Get a degree,enjoy uni and there are plenty of years left for flying. Remember chaps,its a great job but not the job it was! I certainly wouldnt have wanted to be flying at 19,was too busy enjoying myself in university...started at 22 in an airline and that was still too early.

[Deano777]

Who ever said he wasn't responsible? Nobody is assuming anything of the sort

[Doug E Style]

Well, if he doesn't like the job, he can always go and get a paper round instead.

[ALLOW]

Started B737-8 at 20, 21 now and 1400 hrs later im gettin on grand,no1 cares what age i am,maybe nervous passengers when they see me the odd time a second look:8:8:8:E GOOD LUCK ED!!!:D:D:D:D

[4 engines 4 longhaul]

Well its not so much well done ed, but well done dad, good lad passing his exams and all that but we would see alot more 19yr old f/o's about if they had or wanted to stump the cash at that age, if you wanna see young pilots look at India:ok:

[Flip Flop Flyer]

So, the general consensus seems to be there's nothing special about being 19 and commanding the right seat of a commercial airliner - especially if you have a dad willing to pay the bills, and who happens to be well-connected with an airline whos hiring.

Begs the question, though, how on earth this thread ran to 6 pages (and counting ...)

[herkman]

I believe that the then Group Captain Dereck Kingwell, was the youngest pilot to make Group Captain. At the age of 19 he became CO of the RAAF 82 wing, flying the B24 Liberator.

Stayed in the RAAF after the war and ended up as a Air Commodore.

Great pilot and CO, only died in recent years.

I suspect that age had nothing to do with his rise, just the right man for the job.

Regards

Col

[badboy raggamuffin]

Recognise this guy's face from when I was training at Stapleford, never spoke to him though.
Can't really see how this story is news though, who is responsible for getting this in the papers?
If I was Ed id feel a bit sheepish of having it shouted across the rooftops that my dad had paid for me to get an FATPL, 737 tr and got me a job sitting next to him.

Talking of young pilots, I think I remember reading a story a couple of years ago in the BA inflight magazine about some kid who was their youngest captain at age 23. Am I right?
Young wippersnappers should know their place!

[sevenstrokeroll]

OK

I'm not impressed and wouldn't want a 19 year old as my copilot. Flying is like cooking...you can throw something in the microwave and eat it, or you can slowly cook something adding spices along the way to make something outstanding.

You learn in many ways how to be a pilot. Even Lindbergh said the only way to know how to fly was to teach others how to fly.

Did the 19 year old ever teach?

It is probably easier to get a type rating commercial ticket in a 737 than to get an instrument rating in a Seminole. And a copilot check in a 737 is even easier than a type rating.

I wonder what spice (read seasoning) has been left out of this person's experience? Maybe not checking the compass against runway on lineup? Maybe a "too cool for school" attitude?

I wish this person safe flying...and maybe go back to the cook book once in awhile!

[juststartin]

I would just like to put my 2 p worth into all of this.

I must admit that the 1st thought going through my head when I read the story was " lucky bast**d".

Im currently starting out (hence the name):rolleyes: and although at the whipper snapper age of 27, still aim to be on the flightdeck of a commercial airliner (flying it) by the time im 35 - plenty of time - I hope.

My point is one that has probably already been said on here - why go to the papers, either by the airline or the family, why make a big song and dance about it all!
Yes im pleased for him - but please - why all the PR crap.

Also, why would they want to brag about having, albeit the youngest, the most inexperienced, both in hours and in life in general on their flight deck???

Now I dont care how he paid for his licence (or didnt) he is obviously one of the lucky ones if you like, and to his credit has acheived his goal in life at a young age, fair play to the lad. if anyone told me they had acheived their goal in life, at 19, 99 or 109 I would still say the same thing.

We all set out in life with goals and ambitions, some fullfil them and some dont, thats life. I just hope im in the former of these categories

I dont know how much clout my point will carry, as im not one of you guys.....just yet... but I felt compelled to write something after reading some of the posts (some cringe-worthy as if he was your best friend), and then posts slagging off other people's posts for not congratulating him. It became very tedious in the end.:ugh:

This is a forum where everyone is equal to voice their opinion - take it for what you will, you have mine!!!!

Now im going back to my wannabee friends - play nicely, and fly safe

Craig

ps Buy the Daily Star in 2015, It may well have a picture of me in it on graduation day - you never know:D

[Deano777]

So, the general consensus seems to be there's nothing special about being 19 and commanding the right seat of a commercial airliner - especially if you have a dad willing to pay the bills, and who happens to be well-connected with an airline whos hiring.

Begs the question, though, how on earth this thread ran to 6 pages (and counting ...)

Because last time I checked there were 189,280 members of PPRuNe

[corsair]

I am jealous or envious but not in a negative way. I wish I had been in that position instead of crawling across the line to success, broke but happy, the way I had to. I'd much rather be flying 737's age 19 than have to work in some of the worthless jobs I did. Good luck to him. Not sure why it made the papers though. 19 year old F/O s are hardly unique as many here have noted. Really it's just a question of having the money to pay for the training. Like many of us, raising the money was the REAL problem. That is the main difference between him and others. Dad had the money and it seems the pull.

As for being 19, well I know quite a few 19 year olds who I would happily see in positions of responsibility. Leadership and (relative) maturity are not just age related.

Really the only surprising thing was that a male pilot actually made the papers. Usually it's the lady pilots who get the publicity. Any 19 year old girl pilots out there?

[chris-squire]

I freind of mine was one of the youngest females to get her PPL on her 17th birthday. She now drives the 757 for Monarch aged 21/22.

And who ever said Women couldn't drive! :E

[A330Ryan]

7 pages for what alot of people seem to say is not worth the attention - hmm?

I think some of you should take a step back and READ this thread, it comes across as envy!!!!!!

I would go to the paper and be like Ha Ha daddy paid and got me a job! Nothing wrong with it, and none of you would have turned down that if it was offered to you on a plate.

Get over yourselves and let him enjoy his career - you all sound bitter!!!!!!

[WTB]

Well done Ed. Who gives a stuff if his old man is fleet manager? Come on, we would all do the same in his Dad's position. Far better to be in a 737 at 19 than 30!:ok:

[Romeo India Xray]

Well done Ed!!!

Perhaps some of the naysayers have forgotten the maturity it takes to go from a humble PPL at 17 through to a Frozen ATPL with 737 type. Regardless of parental help, it takes maturity and dedication that not every teenager can muster. I congratulate you!

For my own halfpenny worth, I could fly before I could drive, but that was only as a PPL back then and I was in my early 20s so I'm not sure it counts. Went on to find that lack of driving licence made getting to airfield for hour building a bit of a pain in the posterior (and it was 700 hours of hour building in those days).

RIX

[rbr919]

I can't believe many of you on this post. You have lost the plot completely and signify everything wrong with this industry. Are you all rich kids born with a silver spoon in your mouth or had things given to you on a plate so much that you now expect it as the norm.
Congratulations to this kid, as we all know its an achievement, but he has done no more than the rest.(in fact he has done less!)
I don't hear you lot saying well done to others. Others who have not received a penny from anyone else to fund their training, others who do not have rich parents, others who have had to work hard to save up to fund it all, others who have had to pay every penny for training, food, lodgings , car etc themselves, others who have had to balance training/studing with another job or/and only seeing the wife and kids on a weekend, others who are past 40 and not fresh out of school so study is difficult, others that have sent thousands of CVs out to get that first job, others who have networked, networked and networked, others who have applied for jobs towing gliders, bush flying etc, others who have worked as instructors and others who have built up their hours in the hope of getting that first airline job, others who have also paid for their own TR and passed it etc etc.
I know so so many all the above applies to.

You lot need to get a grip of reality, until then you wont realise just how easy this kid has had it. Oh and dont get me wrong, if my Mother & Father could have funded me and got me a job I would have taken it too. So good luck to him, its you lot on this site that praise him as if its a major achievement that make me sick as you obviously have forgotten or never realised just how hard it is to get that first airline job and fund it all yourself.
NOW GET A GRIP OF THE REAL WORLD!

[Dream Land]

Why did they go to the newspaper with this? Probably a proud dad had something to do with this, I wouldn't blame him!

[Xeque]

Yes indeed. Well done Ed :ok: I've got your Dad's signature in my logbook - he signed off a skills test at Andrewsfield (EGSL) for me a couple of years ago so I can fly in Thailand. Good luck in the future.

[skysod]

Just couldn't let this one go.............
Well done Ed, but...............
Even more well done to those like myself who started out late (PPL @ 31 years of age), then............ self financed hour building, IMC rating, Night rating, AFI rating, multi-engine rating, Instrument Rating, all ground school by correspondance course, hours and hours of filling out application forms, phone calls to secure that elusive first commercial job.........oh and at the same time taking out two part time jobs (on top of the full time one).....oh and paying the mortgage, keeping the wife happy, raising two kids and eventually getting that first job aged 39! Phew, makes me tired just writing about it.

My point is well done to one and all............

[M.Mouse]

To add a little perspective this started out as a little piece in a local paper which was then picked up by the national press who have made it out to be a slightly bigger deal than it is (unusual I know). I do not believe it started out that way!

Like all things in aviation the guy had some good fortune but let's not forget he also had to demonstrate his ability as well. I have had my share of good fortune too. He must be feeling awful at some of the sneering and spiteful remarks here if he has read them.

[anotherthing]

Flying 737s at 19 year old. Yep a fairly commendable achievment, he had the benefit that money was no object, coupled with an obvious amount of natural ability (otherwise he would have had to take more than just minimum hours to pass the course - bit like a driver who takes 5 years to pass the test or one that does it after 2 lessons).

I'm sure there are plenty others out there who given the financial backing, could have done the same.

He had the opportunity money wise and he took it. Just feel sorry for him that he will now have so many years ahead of him in the cockpit of a modern jet! Not my idea of an invigorating or stimulating career, but I hope he enjoys it and more importantly I hope he appreciates his father's gesture, though I doubt there is much fear that he won't, he must be fairly well grounded to achieve what he did :ok:

[pipertommy]

From the otherside of the fence.Would you help your son/daughter to become a pilot?
I certainly would!Anything i could do to help him would be done.How cool to be crew with your son,extremely proud moment for Ed`s dad.
Good on you both.

[Stop Stop Stop]

Well done Ed. A fine achievement.

What a load of jealous types are on this forum. Yes, he has clearly had the licence and rating bought for him and his father got him the job, but so what? Ed's father could not pass the ATPL exams for him, nor pass the TQ course and line training. How kind of his dad to make such a huge investment in his son's future. I would do the same when my boys are old enough if they need the help- that is what parents do.

How many people have followed their parents footsteps into a company? How many veterinary surgeons have sons and daughters as veterinary surgeons- or father and daughter doctors? Of course it helps having a daddy in a particular business, but that is just how it is and how it has always been. If you want to become an officer in the Guards, then it helps to have been to Eton and Cambridge and have a private income. That is also the 'old boy network.'

I also fly with very young FO's and a surprising number tell me that daddy has just retired as a Jumbo captain for the same company? Does that help them get the place at the training school? Of course it does, but can you take away their achievement? The CEO of the National airline I work for has a daughter who flies as a First Officer. Was she ever going to be turned down? I think not.

I had to slog my way through my licences and it was a long hard slog, but I don't begrudge this guy getting where he is, one iota. If I had a similar family contact then I would hope it would have been easier- but I didn't. The best I got was from a friend who personally took in my CV to the recruitment manager- that got me an interview and subsequently the job. The old boy network again!

[Man Flex]

For me, Flying Clara says it all on page 3.

[J'Mac]

:ok: Nice one, Ed! Your Dad did you a big favor. Thumbs up to him too.

[chris-squire]

After reading everything....

Sincere congratulations to Ed on achieveing his ambitions at just 19. Any of us would have grabbed the opportunity to do the same with both hands so any cynical or jealous naysayers pipe down!

It's fair to say that we are ALL envious of the guy, I certainly am. But that isn't a reason to have a go at him and call him a daddy's boy. As said above, anyone on here would have done the same given half the chance and think how you would feel if you were in his position and all you got was sniped at for your achievement. He's still had to pass the exams to get there. No-one but him can do that. As for his dad funding it, that's not really any of our business is it. And as for his dad securing him a job, so what! Anyone care to say they wouldn't have taken a 737 RHS if their dad had offered it to them straight out of training???

The only bit I really don't agree with is the need to publicise it on the scale that it has been. But I'm sure the tabloids had something to do with that! Who know's, perhaps Titan have contributed to his training in some way and have then used it as a PR stunt. I doubt Ed's gone off to the paper's and said 'hey look at me'.

Cheers

CS :ok:

[Deano777]

7 pages for what alot of people seem to say is not worth the attention - hmm?

I think some of you should take a step back and READ this thread, it comes across as envy!!!!!!

I would go to the paper and be like Ha Ha daddy paid and got me a job! Nothing wrong with it, and none of you would have turned down that if it was offered to you on a plate.

Get over yourselves and let him enjoy his career - you all sound bitter!!!!!!

So how old were you when you obtained your fATPL then? nobody is envious, afterall most of us here has an ATPL already. Perhaps you should have a read of post #125 by rbr919

Well said rbr919.

Back to the topic, I said to my wife yesterday that he had the dedication and drive to obtain his fATPL at a young age, well done for that, but face the reality, had he been fresh out of a modular school at 19 and he had applied to Titan of his own back he wouldn't have even had a sniff of an interview let alone a job, so yes, he's worked very hard, as have myself and alot of others, but again, not begrudging him of it but he has been handed a job on a plate - fact, so where's the big deal in that?

All in all people aren't miffed at the young lad, good luck to him, they are, like me, a bit miffed about what the big deal is.

[chris-squire]

Deano and any others that are "miffed" - Life's far too short to be getting wound up over this! I agree you as far as disagreeing with the amount of publicity that this has got but like I said in my previous post, this is probably largely down to the Tabloids and a bit of Spin from Titan ahead of the summer season.

I'm in the same boat as many of you in that I am having to go through the normal route of borrowing ££££'s secured against parents house so do understand where you're coming from but it's worth remembering that we all want to acheive that RH and eventually LHS and will approach it in a variety of ways. This was Ed's so I don't really think it's down to any of us to criticize him.

In short, he's got his job end of story. Now start thinking about how you are going to get your's! I'm sure most of us won't be as fortunate as Ed but personally I will take greater satisfaction form the rewards of my efforts so am really not bothered by any of this and netiher should you be. Like I said, life's too bloody short!

CS :ok:

[Deano777]

It's not ruining my day Chris, that's for sure, it's a case of seeing it with one eye and then raising an eyebrow, that's as far as it goes, what's more mystifying is the people who think it's a big deal and that us who think it isn't are not entitled to our opinions or we are flatly wrong.

Oh, and nobody is criticizing him, not in the slightest, I say again, good on him ;)

[Go Smoke]

I know Ed and he's a great guy and a good pilot...........his dress sense is pretty dodgy though (too much pink for my taste)

Who wouldn't take the help of kith and kin?

Good on you Ed.

[sevenstrokeroll]

In the USA you can't have an ATP issued to you until you are 23 years of age.

I imagine all ICAO nations are this way...does the 19 year old just have a commercial ticket then?

[chris-squire]

Deano - I'm not saying you or anyone else isn't entitled to an opinion. If I did a forum would hardly be the sort of place I'd look to spend my time. Furthermore, I'm not getting into a debate on whether the whole thing is right or wrong. I've got my views on it just like the other 189k members will have but am simply saying that I think there are some very big chips going around this thread that are totally unnecessary.

I think it's a reasonably big deal that someone is flying a 737 at 19 however which way they got there. It might not be a big deal to others but to most other outside the industry it's newsworthy.

Let the guy have his 5 mins of fame and get on with being a decent pilot.

CS :)

[Flying Lion]

As someone that has sat in the left hand seat of a B737 with some f/os of fairly limited ability & who has been involved with this guys training prior to type rating, I would like to make the point that despite who may have paid for his training, he was a very capable above average pilot with a thoroughly pleasant & mature personality too. I would be more than happy to pick up a sign-in sheet & see he was my f/o for the day. Good Luck!

[akindofmagic]

sevenstrokeroll

I assume that this chap will be flying on his commercial licence. As I understand it, one cannot be issued with a full ATPL until the age of 21 in JARland.

[mightymouse111]

Did I really read in post 138 that someone has said that it is the normal route to borrow money against your parents house!!!!!!!!!!
Normal route????
What you mean to say is that your parents have lent/given you the money and in order to do so they have remortgaged their house!
May i suggest this is by far from the norm, there is no norm in flying and if you think that this is the norm perhaps one of the previous posters was correct and take that silver sppon out of your mouth!

i am also with many previous posters that it is a great achievement to do what he has done but virtually he will be on his own at having life so easy. There are so many people who have achieved so much more.. I am not taking away from what he has done or achieved but are we getting into the habit of praising all who are so lucky.
No one is slating him as we all would have taken dads money and dads job so he has no need to feel bad. But those of you that think it is exceptional may I suggest that you get a serious reality check.

[StanSayz]

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/246220~Dick-Van-Dyke-Barry-Van-Dyke-Posters.jpg

:D

***Disclaimer***
(Despite how this post comes across, I'd just like to clarify that I actually have no real opinion on the matter ((a.k.a I couldn't care less))- before I'm accused of having "chips" on my shoulders)

Much the same as ASFKAP's "Didn't you see the note on the fridge?" did for me, if this makes someone chuckle I'll be happy :)

[nospeedrestriction9]

Congratulations to him but let's all be honest... he only got that job because of his father.
Titan rarely hire experienced turboprop pilots with less than 1300 hours and the last time I saw a Titan ad was quite some time ago.

Good luck to him but it's not what you know... it's who you know.

[sawaya]

there are lots of them flying for kenya airways including early twenties in the 777

[Gvk]

A good friend of mine turned 19 just last december and is now doing his type rating with BA on the 737 to be based out of LGW.

No special father deals there, just plain hard work. He'll just have to wait a few months more to get his ATPL when he reaches 1500 hrs because he won't be 21 years old yet. Quite impressive :ok:, but nothing new.

[express315]

Great achivement! However having a dad who can sponsor you and
who knows all ins and outs in the business concerned, especially flying
for the same airline makes it more then 50% of a success.
In between the hundreds of 250hrs guys who fly as my FOs on B737 in India for sure there are some of 19 age. Most of them went for commercial
pilot training straight away from the high school as their parents were
rich enough to pay for it.

[fokkerjet]

Thanks StressFree. Hope all is well with you and family... :)

[Nice Touch]

Well done chap and bum holes to what ever everyone is saying. Titan is a fantastic place to work. The MD does not suffer fools-so take pride in that. The LHS's have been there since flying was a theory-you can/will learn plenty. Not some unrealistic, robot like SOPs-but a bit of proper airmanship. Absorb, learn and listen-its diamond covered. Every year at Titan is worth 3 of easyJet.
My only concern is one of maturity-how will you handle the beautiful cabin crew on nightstops? You have a long tradition of good FO performance to live up to!

Fill your boots young man

[Stpaul]

Were you born with a silver spoon in your mouth too?

I was born with a plastic fork in my ass!

Any handouts/jobs gratefully received here! Please give generously.

[Stampe]

Congratulations to the young man concerned I know his father a real aviation enthusiast who instructs and flies vintage types as well as the day job.I believe the young man already has some classics in his log book!!!.In spite of the obvious family assistance still a great achievement at such an early age.I,m not sure I,d relish looking forward to 46 (+) years of the industry as it currently stands and god knows what our status will be at the end of his career.My dear departed father recommended accountancy to me,looking at how my schoolmates who took that path have faired ....he was right they,ve all got much better lifestyles than me.:ok:

[5150]

I was a 14 year old sprog when I first started flying and didn't have the benefit of wealthy or 'connected' family.

I was 30 when I first flew a jet, so at the end of the day - it's just luck that gets you there. . .

[chris-squire]

Stampe - Don't feel bad about not doing accountancy! Im an accountant at the mo and yes the money is good and the requirement for newly qualified's is through the roof but I can't wait to leave my desk and start doing something that I have a passion for and makes me genuinely happy. Infact that'll be 8 weeks today! :) :) :)

I've got a nice lifestyle at the mo but I've certainly found that the more you have the more you want. Prime example, about 3 years ago I bought the car I'd wanted for ages! But within a month I was looking at what I fancied next and have since changed twice again since then.

I quite like my job at the mo but I can't see myself doing anything but flying long term and whilst I know the money may not ever be quite as good it certainly ain't bad and you can't put a price on happiness!

One final point, you may well find that you accountant friends in particular are privy to a number of clever tax dodges when in Limited Liability Partnerships which you won't ever know about or benefit from as an employee of an airline I'm afraid.

CS :ok:

[A330Ryan]

Has this reached 9 pages now.... for the people that put about the attention this is getting..... stop posting! lol

[manageflight]

Nice to see another wanting to so badly get away from the desk. I started PPL ages ago but stopped because of financial risk and all that i hear of pilots with FATPL and no work. I just dont know what to do. My heart tell me differently to my brain which pumps out the financial Risk!!!It seems to be a business of who you know and that worries me about venturing into it and investing all the hours and financial resources which i dont really have. DId you also do modular route while practicing as an accountant? my problem is i am 38 and I earn in a good year around 80k and in a bad year 30k being a contractor thats how it works. I am completely confused as what to do because I cannot see myself behind a desk for another 20 years at least my place is in a cockpit where i feel i belong!

[manageflight]

there are lots of decent pilots out there but wont get a look into the cockpit but yet this lad has a first officer position. But guess what his father is an established captain. It says it all!:hmm:

[Stationair8]

Good one young fella.
Best of luck with your flying career.

[L'aviateur]

An awful lot of jealousy here. Some rather naive talk about fairness and unfairness.
If you turn the table and look at it from a personnel point of view, its probably a very safe option. Look after your own; good publicitity. In any company, if you were a personnel manager/management you'd rather employ family or someone recommended by an employee.

[Count von Altibar]

I haven't even been bothered to read this thread as I really don't care if an FO is only 19 on the B737. A pilot could be 16 or lower if the law of the land allowed it. Not interested at all and nothing special.

[neville_nobody]

I think you will find that people are unhappy because this guy's achievement is only because his parent's have some money. If he had to earn the money himself he wouldn't be an FO at 19 he'd be an FO at 29!! Good on him for getting where he is however I don't believe it's that big a deal. There are plenty of people in aviation around the world who have overcome much bigger hurdles to get into the RHS of a jet than what this guy's done.

It is also a reflection of the system in Britain too. Most people in Australia or the USA would have no chance of even qualifying for a 737 job in their early/mid 20's let alone 19.

[fade to grey]

Hmmmm,lots of green eye here.
It may well be the case that the finance and ultimately the job have all been down to the parents but ultimately you still need the skills to get to that point..

despite what some think not everyone has what it takes to become an airline pilot...

[Ivor_Novello]

A lot of people commenting about jealousy and chip on the shoulder, but I don't think it's a fair comment.

I can only speak as a wannabe, as I only hold a PPL, and I don't find the young man's achievement out of the ordinary. Learning to fly is fun and exciting, and even the hard studying to go with it is still part of a learning process into something you are interested and passionate about.

Given a year or two off work, bills paid, 50k spare cash and nothing else to worry about (including debt, job security after training) apart from passing the ATPL exams and the skills tests, and many of us can achieve the same.

Not everyone could achieve that with a family, a mortgage, bills, full time work and the usual grind.

Choose your favourite method to study for your ATPLs :

Day off, wake up 9am, have breakfast (ready and served) then get on the books for a few hours, then have a break (probably, also ready and served) then when you feel like it do some more studying.

or

Up at 7, one hour in the rush hour traffic, 8 hours at work, one hour in rush hour traffic, make your own dinner, then if you still got any energies try and get a couple of hours studying done.

Consider these 2 options and then we can talk bout achievement ?

regards

Ivor

[transitionlevel]

This is my background:

First trial flying lesson: 12
First Solo: 17
PPl: 18
FATPL: 19
Turboprop Job: 20 (and i wasnt in any of the papers!!)
Medium size jet: 21

I worked hard before and during training (modular) to save up 75% of the cost of training. luckily, mum and dad were in a position to give me the remaining 25% which had been saved up for university costs.

I say well done to this guy. i do wonder quite how it ended up in the papers though. im sure there are plenty of 19/20 year olds gettins jobs worldwide and in the UK (me being one). but that doesnt matter. i do this job just as well as the 25 - 30 year olds so i really dont see what the problem is. just shows that not all us teenagers spend our time fighting and taking crack.

[Ivor_Novello]

And how did you go from first solo at 17 to fATPL at 19 ? (I mean, financially)

Just curious to know how you earn and save, as a teenager, about 25k to 30k in less than 2 years....
Washing cars and serving tea at the local airfield ? :)

Sorry for transforming this in a wannabe thread but that's probably where it belongs.

[ratarsedagain]

I think you will find that BA had at least one FO trained by British Aerospace, Prestwick in the early 1990s' was line checked aged 19.

And still going strong;)

[Whirlygig]

Ivor, I'm sure if, at the age of 17 you wanted to go through to fATPL and your parents could fund it, they would have done. We all have different circumstances, some may be harder than others.

I can commend this lad's dedication instead of the social pressures he was no doubt under to go out with his mates, pull and get pished!

Cheers

Whirls


PS - I'm following your option 2 by the way!!

PPS - even when I was at home, my mother mother stopped getting me my breakfast when I was about 8!!

[Adios]

He's not the youngest. I know an OAT Integrated graduate who is flying 737s for BA and just turned 19 in December 2007. Both of these lads are pretty amazing if you ask me.

[captain_rossco]

Not a record by any means, but fair bloody play to the chap for his acheivements none the less!
After some ear bending and grovelling I was lucky enough to secure the flying training through the old man, he figured, "sod it, you can't take it with you and the lad seems keen" I was 24 at the time!
The source of his funding should not be subject to discussion, some can some can't and others want it so much they just make things happen themselves.
The edge this chap may have had, was his route in through his father, fortunate yes, but I doubt his pops sat his ATPL exams, his CPL, his IR, MCC and type rating for him did he?????......... There are many on this forum who have already overcome each of these commercial training benchmarks and may well be of the opinion that after this much jumping through hoops, the boy deserved his job!
To those sat twiddling their thumbs waiting for that illusive first job??? Your time will come my friends!!

:ok::ok:
Regards
CR

[kierandee]

basically the reason this was in the paper/discussed on the radio is because 90% of the british public have absolutely no idea how to actually get to the RHS of an airliner. it just seems strange to a lot of us because we know that this scenario is highly achievable given the right circumstances.

im about to start at oat and with any luck and a lot of hard work i'll finish 4 days before my 21st birthday and it would have been a year sooner if i hadnt decided to sort out my a level results and get some money together...but i can guarantee if i'd had the money to do some more flying when i was younger i would have worked my arse off to qualify as soon as humanly possible and im sure im not alone in that. as it happened i had to scrape around for all the free flying i could get in the ccf.

at the end of the day you play the hand you're dealt, and well done to this guy and ANYBODY ELSE who sets out what they want to achieve and does it with the resources available to them.

as for young pilots in general, i think theres a lot more nowadays pursuing it instead of university simply because of the rising costs of a uni education - if you're forced to choose, uni is 3/4 years - flying is for the rest of your working life (fingers crossed).

[Stationair8]

I thought I had done alright getting a Twin Commanche endorsement at 21.
At 19 any female Flight Attendant would have to be fair game>

[soullimbo]

Congrats to this guy. Well done. All those with jealous reactions, put a sock in it and realise that for him it is no easier to get this far than for most others.

[Val d'Isere]

Haven't read all the posts, but jealosy isn't the issue.

The fact is, if someone put up the cash, all the guy had to worry about was concentrating on the course. OK, you need a minimum level of brainpower (and a good schooling goes a long way to help), but that's all. Age is irrelevant. A much younger kid could do it.

Then you have to get a job. Helped by someone with influence, again no big deal. Age irrelevant once again, then.

But this is the revealing comment..... As first officer you do pretty much the same as the captain

Now that does sound like a guy who's too young.

I guess that in Titan the Cabin Crew make all the decisions, based upon their years of experience.

Love to get him in the simulator with a raw F/O and see how much he'd manage to do 'just the same as a Captain'.

[Ivor_Novello]

Ivor, I'm sure if, at the age of 17 you wanted to go through to fATPL and your parents could fund it, they would have done. We all have different circumstances, some may be harder than others.

I can commend this lad's dedication instead of the social pressures he was no doubt under to go out with his mates, pull and get pished!


When I was 17 I couldn't afford a pair of trainers without the support of my parents. Nevermind an ATPL.

To be honest, learning to fly full time is already a privilege,especially when somebody else is paying the all the bills. I don't see it a big sacrifice to hold back from having an outrageous social life. Having said that, if money is not an issue, one can easily afford to do full time flight training AND even have a social life. No one is going to be studying more than 8 hours a day are they ?

Once again, everybody is praising this outstanding achievement, but give any of us keen PPLs a year off work, 60 grand to spare, a dad Captain in an airline and I can show you a lot of people are capable of that amazing achievement :)

[Whirlygig]

I'm not sure I get this concept of privilege? Someone (unless we're talking about the Landed Gentry under the feudal system) had to work hard to pay for their children's education - what parent wouldn't do that IF they could afford it.

My parents worked very hard to end up with a good income etc and yes, they helped fund my degree and, indirectly now, my flying training. Am I privileged? Or is it an accident of birth? In the meantime, I have also worked hard to achieve many things which also contribute to my flying funding.

Everyone's circumstances are different and whatever their circumstances, their achievements should not be decried.

Cheers

Whirls

[Stationair8]

No different to a lot of guys whose dad is in the air force as pilot and they get accepted in as a pilot?

[VNA Lotus]

seriously, everyone can do it...as long as you have money, you just have to start flying earlier it is just about mathematics!...
19,20,21 y/o what's the matter ?! the most important is that everyone is happy in a cocpkit.
And be humble...

[fatcadet]

Congratulation to father and son. Father had finally acheived most parent's dream and for son, it's the beginning of an interesting career ahead.

[Felix Saddler]

Congratulations to him indeed. Although i am fairly envious of the ease in which his training was financed for him. If most of us were given the money to commence training so early i'm sure this would become more and more frequent. Nevertheless well done to him.

[MajorLemond]

Are you guys serious? I would imagine that the reason he`s in the paper is because someone (possibly a reporter) has noticed how young he was and thought hey, that`ll make a good article. Pilot training costs are phenomenol these days, How else are you going pay for it besides help from your folks? Good on him I say, he`s doing well and lets face: experience is great, but proper training and common sense goes along way to making a safe operation.

[BerksFlyer]

Are you guys serious? I would imagine that the reason he`s in the paper is because someone (possibly a reporter) has noticed how young he was and thought hey, that`ll make a good article. Pilot training costs are phenomenol these days, How else are you going pay for it besides help from your folks? Good on him I say, he`s doing well and lets face: experience is great, but proper training and common sense goes along way to making a safe operation.

Most make it without their folks being the chief pilot or being on the bankroll.

But to be fair to the lad, he's played the hand he's dealt and there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing is that most wish they had it on a plate as much as this.

I think this thread is taken out of context anyway, afterall we all know how little a grip the papers have on aviation, especially local papers (like the one this story started out in). It was obviously a slow news day and the journo thought (with his complete lack of knowledge of how to get into the RHS of an airliner), hmmm I didn't know you could do that at 19, that's worth a story and BANG there it is, and here's this thread :}

[manageflight]

Ivor

I agree entirely with your 2 types of student pilot and i fall into the second category. Mortgage to sort out, car to pay, job to do and then come home at 7pm cook, clean and only then pull out the books.

It is frustrating looking at the boy with it all on a silver spoon. Who wakes up at 9am. Daddy paying strolls down to the airfield gets fresh air, pulls out a book or two goes and chats about flying for an hour or two. Gets in a couple of hours of hour building comes home and has dinner served up.

And with no financial worries he is having the time of his life

[Whirlygig]

Why do you find it frustrating? We all have choices in life and, as someone said earlier, we play the hand we are dealt to the best of our ability.

Cheers

Whirls

[chock2chock]

My problem is not particularly with nepotism- It has always happened, and always will whether we like it or not. The question I have, is- was this acievement actually newsworthy? Especially when hiring cadet junior officers at a pretty young age is the norm. And those that have, seemingly earned their positions through scholarship or sponsorship or by just being top of ther class or thereabouts. I by no means imply that this chap is not a high achiever- he most likely is to have been considered for that position. But didn't the editor stop to think that there may by not-so- subtle undertones of nepotism- epecially in this modern age of 'equal opportunities'?. This looks like one of those 'space plugger' stories- slow day at the press, though I imagine that the story will be of some interest in his local area/county press, but a national story??? A couple years from now there would be another story much like this one, and most would have forgotten Eds achievement.

Strange though...I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that he is a product of the modular route. Now that is newsworthy.

[captain_rossco]

Of course! This is ONLY being debated as a result of its news appearance, as mentioned previously, we simply cannot comment on the chap's assistance as the requirements are the same.

Out of the norm for us?...Probably not!
A smiley story Worthy of a few column inches amidst a paper full of conflict and political bullshine? Great ,why the hell not!

We should be a wee bit more supportive me thinks, if not for the fact that on the very next page, there was more likely than not a tale of some lad the same age in a hoodie, smashing **** out of a pensioner for his walking stick and parker jacket.

Regards

CR

:ok:

[chris-squire]

Yeah interesting that but I don't think it's particualry relevant given that his ol'man was going to get him a job at the end. Why would you pay 20 or 30k more money for something needlessly.:hmm:

[Ivor_Novello]

Why do you find it frustrating? We all have choices in life and, as someone said earlier, we play the hand we are dealt to the best of our ability.


I guess you're right then - if we were born in Rwanda we would probably have different things to worry about rather than learning to fly.

It was just a comment on the initial thread starters and following replies.
Q. Is it such a big achievement for a young man to obtain a commercial licence and fly a jet for a living when your dad is paying for the training and is getting you the F/O job ?
A. No - I don't think it's a big achievement.

It was simply a comment. No frustration. There are worse things in life than not being able to fly a jet. :)

[spitfirebbmf]

Typical British response, why can't we be happy for people who do well or win lots of money or are lucky.

GREAT JOB MATE AND BEST WISHES FOR THE FUTURE

:D:D:D

[Mikehotel152]

I think getting an ATPL is a great achievement at any age, but this is just the media getting excited because this guy is younger than most. Why is he younger the most? Well, it's obviously because of the financial backing and the foot in the door that he received. Lucky guy.

But let's not forget the fact that studying almost any academic subject is easiest in your late teens: Your brain is able to absorb new information quicker (and remember it) far better than 10 or 20 years later. And don't forget that your reactions are at their best when you're around 20. It's therefore fairly obvious that the best time train to be a commercial pilot is your later teens and early twenties.

My only slight concern is that 19 years old is quite young to have so much responsibility, but presumeably the Airlines don't employ people who aren't up to the job.

[student88]

Chill out - there are many pilots out there who were 19 when they first started! The fact is that some people have parents who can help them with money and some don't. Some people have a father who works for an airline and can get their son/daughter a job easily, some don't. It's life and theres always someone you're going to be jealous of - it's nature! Just remember that there's usually someone who's also jealous of you!

The newspaper was approached by the boys father who wanted them to make a story of it! The same goes for the local newspaper where the family live! I hear the lad isn't too impressed with all this but then again, reading this thread, neither would I!

Jerry's Final Thought: Some people get dealt a great hand, some not so good, some pretty bad. All that matters is how you go about making sure you achieve what you set out to do. Forget about the 19 year old flying 737s and think about you and how you're going to make sure you achieve what you want to do. That's the only way you'll make yourself happy!

S88:ok:

[che turner]

Forget about the 19 year old flying 737s and think about you and how you're going to make sure you achieve what you want to do. That's the only way you'll make yourself happy!

spot on mate.:ok: