Off Airfield Training

[cyclic flare]

Rumour has it that the CAA are meeting in January to discuss / decide if Helicopter flight training can be carried out off airfield and i don't mean licensed Heli pads / field etc. I mean your back garden subject to all the correct breifing facilities etc.

Anybody know anything?

[helimutt]

Wouldn't this be sensible??? Can't see it being approved by the CAA then.

This had been discussed recently but i'm not sure if there was a thread on it. Try looking in Flying Instructors and Examiners. I wanted to operate a single R22 (instruction for ppl only) out of a gliding site a couple of years ago and heard this was being discussed. Unfortunately, nothing came of it at the time and I abandoned the idea as I felt operating out of a main airport was prohibitively expensive. Landing fees, hangarage etc.
The gliding site had fuel, safety guys there during gliding days. Hangars. But no landing fees. Would have been great but not deemed safe enough by the powers that be as it wasn't licensed. Safe enough for glider towing though.

[manfromuncle]

Is it April 1st already?

[cyclic flare]

Its not April 1st its January 13th.

I got this striaght out of the panel examiners mouth and I already know of several registered facilities operating off airfields allowing briefings off airfields etc.

This use to be the case in the 1980's

[kevin_mayes]

About time we should be able to do this sort of thing, its all very well learning to land at an airfield, but you get into the rut of doing the same route/angle of approach each time and expecting there to be someone on the radio to tell you of traffic and wind etc. I know when I passed, the first time I came home to land was on my own, in a new (to me) helicopter and low hours (~80 hours) it would have been great to have practiced a few landings in the field at home from different directions with an instructor first...

I can understand the safety aspect, but we should look at the bigger picture, while training you will have an instructor with you, so technically you should be safer, so landings in the back garden should also be safer.


Kevin.

[120torque]

Kevin - Was there anything stopping you flying approaches to your garden / off airfield site ? Just don't land! I did lots and lots of confined area approches to off airfield sites. The take off & landing bit was the same as at my airfield - no real value in putting the skids down off airfield.

Helimutt - Do you really think sending solo ppl students to and from a gliding site is a safe idea ? Those things are a pain in the AR$E at the best of times.

[MightyGem]

Just don't land!
Ahhh, but you can't go below 500' unless intending to land. Coming to the hover doesn't count.

[kevin_mayes]

Hi, Guy's

The 500 foot bit was the problem, as my shed (office) was within 50m of the landing site, although the field was ~ 1 acre and there are fields all around. So to make it legal we would have to touch the ground? Silly I know - mind you when I was learning, its the last foot that I found the most difficult...

Kevin.

[Helinut]

Kevin,

No, exactly the opposite. At the moment, to keep it legal, a training flight should NOT touch the ground off airfield. :ugh:

Helinut

[Bronx]

"Except with the permission in writing of the CAA, an aircraft shall not be flown closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure."Doesn't sound like a confined area if the nearest structures have to be 500 feet away. :confused:
If you cant land off airfield because it's a training flight does it mean you can only teach confined area on an airfield? I can see the sense of not letting a solo student land off airfield but what's the problem doing it with an FI?

You can happily fly 100 foot off the ground forever provided you maintain at least 500 feet (in any direction, not just vertically!) from any person, vessel, vehicle or structure. So an approach to a confined area, even your back garden, is legal provided the path is clear. Does that apply to training flights? For training you ain't allowed to land off airfield and if you ain't intending to land you can't go closer than 500 feet to a person, vessel, vehicle or structure?

If someone buys a helicopter to learn to fly and keeps it at home does it mean the FI has to take him to an airfield and touch skids before the student can start logging the training time? Do they have to go through the same procedure at the end of the lesson? If that's right, does that mean the time on the way to the airfield and on the way home doesn't count for training even if you are training?



BTW, in the US, helicopters are allowed to fly closer than 500 feet to a person, vessel, vehicle, or structure provided you don't cause a hazard to persons or property on the surface. (Except in congested areas and other specified minimum altitude places.) I can't remember if there's any limitations on that for training flights but I don;t think so.

[manfromuncle]

"If someone buys a helicopter to learn to fly and keeps it at home does it mean the FI has to take him to an airfield and touch skids before the student can start logging the training time? Do they have to go through the same procedure at the end of the lesson? If that's right, does that mean the time on the way to the airfield and on the way home doesn't count for training even if you are training?"

Correct, welcome to Great Britain.

[cyclic flare]

Bronx,

In Great Britain we are F***ing potty.

Not only can you not pick him up from his house etc reason being this would them become a commercial flight so an AOC would be needed.

But lets say that the CAA somehow agreed for you to collect him from his house (And they have) because he only lives two miles from the airfield and obviously no charge could be made otherwise it would be a commercial flight. You then fly him to the airfield and touch down and start your training.

NO NO you can't do that you have to swap seats because the helicopter has a pilots seat and it must be flown from this seat. Only in a training flight can the helicopter be flown from the left seat by a qualified person etc or right seat etc depending on type

This obvoiusly involves shutting down time / money etc becuase common sense has nowt to do with it.

[kevin_mayes]

OK, guy's.

So here's the "curverd ball question" I think that in the US you can fly within 15 feet or so of the ground in a "machine" without the need for a pilots licence or aircraft certification, I think the same applies here in the UK with a 4 foot limit. So you could do all of your hover training at home in you back garden - in fact without an instructor!!! So to stretch this a bit further, if you were doing practice landings at home with an instructor, then when you got to 4 foot, you are no longer in a flying machine so could almost do what you want... i.e land off airfield. Not that I advocate this mind you, but sometimes its good fun to "think out of the box" so to speak...

At this point I'll get my coat...

Kevin.

[md 600 driver]

helinut
No, exactly the opposite. At the moment, to keep it legal, a training flight should NOT touch the ground off airfield.

does that mean confined area training [and landing ] and sloping landings [when carried out off airfield ]are ilegal

[float test]

Md 600

Yes they are the CAA removed confined area training off airfield around 10 - 12 years ago. We now carried out confined area training on the not so confined airfield. Prefect sense

[120torque]

Cyclic Flare - Easy way round the PIC problem - use a heli certified for either seat PIC. FI Lifts and then you are training. Don't forget to start a new sector sheet line.

Are trees classed as structures, etc ? If not then there are still plenty of available confined areas.

Also, if you own the structure/vessel does the 500' rule still apply ?

You could always take the option (i think Whirlybird put in a thread) of making precautionary landings every time near your house.