View Full Version : Sudden laptop shutdown
Golden Ticket
13th Jan 2008, 16:22
I've got a Philips x67 laptop with windows vista o/s and whilst it seems to work ok most of the time it occasionally switches itself off for no apparent reason. It shuts down as if you have held down the power switch to force a shut down. When I restart the computer it seems normal but does say that windows closed down with error but doesn't give me the opportunity to repair. The shutdowns occur sometimes as vista starts sometimes it can run for hours and not shut down.
I've loaded all the upgrades to windows. The laptop also doesn't do this when running on the battery it's only when connected to the mains.
Any suggestions anyone?
Parapunter
13th Jan 2008, 18:36
Click on start, Right click on computer, select manage from the pop up box & from there, choose event viewer. Have a ferret round in there for what's going on - helps if you know what time the last crash occurred as there will be many events to look through & windows times them. If you see a repetitve error report & it lines up with the crash times, you've probably (but not definitely) found it.
If that doesn't help, you can try control panel> system & maintenance>problem reports & solutions.
If you're still stuck, look here: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2005/041105-windows-crash.html?page=2
Golden Ticket
13th Jan 2008, 18:54
Thanks Parapunter I'll look into it and report back.
Octane
14th Jan 2008, 08:07
My laptop shuts down without warning when it overheats. I sit my machine on a thick paperback to maximise airflow thru the fan and vents...
Octane
Parapunter
14th Jan 2008, 08:39
Just on that, I don't know too much about Phillips' machines, but certainly most pc's I've built have come with some form of utility that will show the cpu & system temperatures & can instruct the machine to shut down if it becomes too hot. I believe such utilities are often found in BIOS settings too. There are also system monitoring utilities such as Everest http://www.lavalys.com too which do the same thing.
CherokeeDriver
14th Jan 2008, 12:32
"The laptop also doesn't do this when running on the battery it's only when connected to the mains."
I had an Hp laptop that had a similar problem. It was a hardware fault. The battery / battery charger had developed a fault and was producing excess head - causing the machine to switch off when on mains power. There was an eventual recall on my models power adaptor / charger.
Have you checked on the manufacturers web site to see if this is a known issue?
CD
Golden Ticket
16th Jan 2008, 12:51
I thought of that as well CherokeeDriver, interestingly on a tour of t'internet it appears that Philips are rebranding Twinhead laptops. Parapunter, I'll have a look at your link but mysteriously it hasn't done it for a couple of days now I haven't a clue why that should be unless it is a cooling issue. Maybe turning all the fancy vista stuff off has helped. Thanks for all the suggestions guys and if it crops up again and I get a solution I'll let you know. I'm going to let sleeping dogs lie for the moment.
hellsbrink
20th Jan 2008, 08:03
Well, turning off the "Vista Stuff" will cut the amount of processor/resource use and should then cut the heat generated. Does the cooling fan sound like it's running a lot?
Sudden shutdowns like that are normally caused by excessive heat, so maybe getting the wee beastie's vents cleaned out could be a good idea, you do not wanna know the crud that can get choked up around the intake/exit vents. Get a can of sprayduster and give all the holes a good blast.
I would definitely run one of those utilities that monitors chip and HD temperature. Everest is the one I use, but there are others.
My laptop did the same for some time, till I got annoyed enough to dismantle it - and found that they'd forgotten to put the "heat path" goo between the chip and the heat sink when they built the machine. Both were pristine and shiny. A quick dob of "Thermpath", and it's been right as rain ever since.
If it's chip overheating, you could try blowing out the vents to clear the dust and fluff. If it's a new laptop, there shouldn't be any - and if it's under guarantee, take it back anyway, because doing the "missing heat path goo" fix will almost certainly invalidate any warranty.
Otherwise, as others have said, look at the logs.
Julian Hensey
21st Jan 2008, 12:54
Another way to find out is to do what you were doing with the laptop when it shut down, but do it outside on an icey cold crisp day with no rain... I tried that on my old laptop and bingo - no sudden shutdowns. A strange way to prove that temperature was the problem, but it worked.
No I don't advise sitting in the freezer....:)
rasobey
21st Jan 2008, 15:33
No one has thought of the obvious solution (actually, one person kind of got there) in that the battery might be faulty, and either the power generated by it just stops for some reason, or it isn't making a proper connection to the, err, battery wotsits inside the machine. I'm sure you know what I mean :) This is especially true if it never happens while plugged in to the mains.
In my experience, an overheat situation will either freeze the machine, or cause a spontaneous reboot. It's never just turned off.
Saab Dastard
21st Jan 2008, 17:28
This is especially true if it never happens while plugged in to the mains.
Which would be a helpful comment if it were not precisely the opposite of the problem.
SD
Exactly. It sounds like the extra power available from mains operation is overheating it. That could be a duff power supply providing too many volts (but the PC ought to compensate for that).
I'd suspect the extra volts are making the chip hotter. That's most likely either blocked cooling tubes, or poor heat transfer to the cooling bits. Do the Everest temperature test, then we'll know.
Golden Ticket
21st Jan 2008, 21:36
Thanks for all the assistance folks, I've downloaded Everest now and I'll let you know the results. I've been at work a few days so unable to post until now. I'll give it a while to see if it shuts down again but for a few days now it's been okay.
At the moment Everest is showing 27c cpu and 53c for the hard drive.
Parapunter
21st Jan 2008, 22:03
HDD is hot that's for sure. Cpu looks ok. Few looks over a period under different loads & conditions'll give you a pattern. Right now with the internerd, exel & live tv all running through mine, I got 30 on the cpu & 30 on the mobo. Ish-ish.
27C on the CPU is cold.
My laptop idles at 44C CPU, 41C HDD. The CPU goes up to around 60C when working hard. Before I fixed the heat sink compound, it was going over 90C.
The desktop is around 36C CPU, 38C HDD. Not much seems to make it go any hotter.
Parapunter
22nd Jan 2008, 08:21
http://209.85.163.132/papers/disk_failures.pdf This is interesting. It's the google research into hdd failure. It shows that in their observations, low temp is correlated with hdd failure & that increases in temp don't affest hdd's until it gets to over 50 degrees!!
Golden Ticket
22nd Jan 2008, 17:43
Tonight the cpu is still not going over 27c so I don't think that is causing the problem. Would there be a point with the hard drive that it would shut down or would the hard drive just run until the temp caused damage?
Tonight the hard drive doesn't seem anywhere near as active and the temp is currently 36c. I wonder if the laptop isn't able to disipate the heat after periods of prolonged activity of the hard drive. At the moment the computer is behaving normally. I don't really use it for much more than surfing, email and syncing with my ipod. Occasional DVD played too.
Computers been on for 30 mins and the cpu temp has stayed the same the hard drive temp as gone from 31c to 36c but doesn't seem to be going above that now.
The watched computer never boils....
Wait till it does it again, and start watching the temperatures.
Parapunter
23rd Jan 2008, 09:25
The assumption is still that it is a temperature issue. Based on the readings so fasr, I would not expect a commanded shutdown.
GT, have you checked through the error logs as found in the event viewer? This really should be your first port of call, since windows logs everything it does in there & it will be a mine of information for you. Everest will tell you what temperature the machine is operating at, the event log will tell you when it shut itself down & in all likelihood, why.
Golden Ticket
5th Feb 2008, 09:27
I was hoping it would be software issue but it appears to be getting worse but only occuring when on the mains supply. I'm going to wait until I can rescue my old toshiba laptop (which in three years has never missed a beat!) from parents house and send this one back to the shop. When it's back I'll post on here what was wrong. Thanks for all the help and advice folks.
GT
Wader2
6th Feb 2008, 13:34
May be wrong and not temperature, but just put your hand by the outlet and test the temp on battery and mains.
My laptop sent me bonkers until I stumbled across the air flow solution on the internet.
The inlet was on the bottom of the machine on a dusty electrostatic surface.
I opened the fan area and discovered a 'filter' on the air inlet. Only thing was it was a 4-5mm mat of dust. I removed that and kept the desk clean. Job done.
hellsbrink
6th Feb 2008, 15:50
Dunno why, but I startin to think of the possibility of a bit of "overvoltage" from the power pack. A few extra tenths of a volt can make a BIG difference to heat, etc...
Golden Ticket
17th Feb 2008, 18:22
Well, folks the current saga is that the laptop runs on the mains fine when operating in safe mode with network access. As soon as I boot it up normally it starts to crash again so I'm making an assumption that it is a driver problem. It's probably a big assumption though.
hellsbrink
17th Feb 2008, 18:28
But if it runs fine on battery, so would that be a driver problem?
Saab Dastard
17th Feb 2008, 18:42
Power management drivers!
hellsbrink
17th Feb 2008, 19:08
I'd thought of them but it still did not compute, Saab.
After all, the very same drivers are in use under battery power.
I still thinking it's a hardware/cooling issue. After all, in safe mode you have far less gubbins installed, etc, so a lower power demand (if there's a problem with a power component, for example, then it is less likely to go "Dunk" due to the lower power requirements of safe mode.)
If you can follow what I mean because I damn near confused meself there....
Golden Ticket
27th Feb 2008, 14:11
Off to the repair people, now lugging around my trusty old Toshiba. I'm quietly hoping it doesn't come back because I've not been impressed with the quality of it from the start but I was sold by it's size. When your dragging these things around day in day out small is beautiful. I'll let you know what the problem was.
Octane
28th Feb 2008, 14:15
This is going to sound weird (had a few beers...)
Can you clear some space in your fridge and see if it runs ok in full mode for an extended period?
I'm trying to think laterally, ha ha, and now I'll slink off....
Cheers
Octane
rogerg
28th Feb 2008, 15:03
I had the same shut down problem. HP help suggested I tap F10 during start up, this brings up the BIOs page, go to test along the top menu and run the test. It came up with a fault code which meant that the hard disk was about to fail! In othe words get it fixed quick.
Hope this helps.
Golden Ticket
6th Apr 2008, 16:43
An update for you all. After 5 weeks being repaired, (waiting for bits) the laptop is back. It had to have a new main board and a 'dc power' board. So there you are. Running properly now. They wouldn't say what caused it, whether it was manufacturing or a problem that developed while I had it. Just so you know though Tech Guys who fixed it (PC World) stuck a big sticker on the lid which didn't peel off easy so the lid looks a mess at least it'll be easy to identify and so less likely to be nicked. They also delivered it back to the store with the packaging and not in the package. Pretty pointless having the instructions to make sure it is securely packaged in transit when they can't do it themselves.
Back to normal now though (whatever that is)