Q Engineering EBA VIII

[Redstone]

Before you moderator types lock this one off, perhaps anyone inciting or partaking in unsavory posting should be the ones locked off, the rest of us can behave ourselves......

[Bush Pig]

Yeah I agree pilot error should go back to scooping his poop!:}

[Big Enis Burdett]

Is it true that QF have changed there negotiating team? What's the new make up?

Big E

[Short_Circuit]

Seems to be true, a couple of the antagonistic lower level managers were removed
from the negotiation and they are most likely the same stooges that posted here.

They wanted the thread closed as it was stirring too much company wide and public support.
Sad to see 1,088 posts and 71,800 views excluded because of some corporate rednecks.
Moderators, please lock them, not the rest of civilised world.:sad:

PS I have just heard that since their removal from the negotiation, there has been some REAL progress made.

[domo]

did one of these managers have a hit with the song "pop music" and also have a mangement role in 007 movies?

[MENDAERO]

Yes the Fat controller and Darling were absent from the negotiations on friday the 4th. It seams they made some progress on that day.

Anyone got any info on the subsequent meetings?

Bonus point for Lames in levels 1-8

Increase in the quota caps

Bonus scheme linked to executive bonus scheme (same as the pilots)

Salary sacrifice into divisions 1,2,3

10% division 6

Backpay (sign on bonus same as LH CC)

XPT gone

Part time, casual capped @?

Definition of employee?

3% unchanged?

Anyone heard any more info?

[Hardworker]

All the talk of sweeteners still doesnt cut, inflation is running at 4.2% and 5% is a realistic request, especially with the money the company is making and the managers are taking...
I wont be voting for any sweeteners its still 5% or go jump....the time for action is now, time the company felt a bit of pain and the managers be held accountable for all the cost cutting and ridiculous changes for the sake of change....which have proven to be a huge backwards step...
5% is achieveable and I believe we should bow out for less, no matter what deals or added items are presented...

[cementhead]

Well they done well in getting more but after winding up the mob to its 5% slogan will they carry the vote?

[numbskull]

You need to get the basic pay level increased.

The ALAEA can organise all sorts of deals that give current employees an acceptable pay rise along with a 3% increase(ie extra points, bonuses, quota adjustments, profit share etc).

However this only benefits the encumbents and does not attract good people. No one in with half a brain would agree to to do an 4 year apprenticeship to finish up on approx $45KPA approx with extremely limited prospects of career advancement, as QF currently offers.

The ALAEA needs to break the thinking that 3% is the best on offer. It belittles yourselves and the occupation of Licences Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

As an example: I left QF after 20 yrs as a level 9 LAME and if I was to come back it would only be as a level 6. It's too easy to find employment that pays better than a level 6 LAME. I would love to come back, (and I daresay QF could do with more experienced LAMES) but its easier to find something that pays more.

Go for 5% or nothing.

[employes perspective]

i too would consider coming back but not as a lvl 3 Lame,53k p/a is not what you get with 20 yrs industry experience,these fools in management need to wake up to themselves,entry level should start at at least 65k p/a.
God knows it sounds like they need extra bodies.

[Millet Fanger]

Too right they need bodies.

Whether it's a transit or an A Check there is not enough engineering staff to complete all the maintenance required before the bus needs to fly again. So extra time is expended prioritizing and/or stamping off work that should have been completed this time around. It makes us less productive.

Hence you can name the time when you will work OT, if you are that way inclined. But seriously, is that any way to run an A/C engineering business? I don't think so.

Management still haven't woken up to the fact that there aren't hundreds of experienced engineering personnel just waiting at the gates to get in. Until they start offering decent renumeration there never will be. Unfortunately, until management get their eyes off their own bonuses and onto the business QF engineering will only go backwards.

Please don't use the excuse that "it just snuck up on us" like you did with dispatch reliability, M. We warned you before and we have warned you again!!

[company_spy]

The rumour doing the rounds that certain "lower managers" have been excluded from the companies negotiating team are just that, roumers. The fat controller has never been involved, and as far as I can tell M has not been ejected. Sorry to say just wishfull thinking.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Bonus scheme linked to executive bonus scheme (same as the pilots)

The only "bonus" we pilots get is a pocket diary each year. This year it's late (they're cheaper after the Xmas sales:})

It might be a factor in the latest EBA but we have not been informed of its details as yet.

[another superlame]

It is all smoke and mirrors, management have you all back at work to get the busy holiday period done.
My guess is that at the end of the show of good faith from Qf it will all revert to the status quo.
Qf will be happy that christmas is over, they have had 3 weeks to train the strike breakers and there bonuses will be growing.
Don't lose sight of what you are striving to achieve,because if you do then it is going to hurt like a b1tch.:ok:

[company_spy]

Another Superlame, I must say how refreshing your inciteful and well balanced comentary on the latest industrial strife is. What a pity there are not more like yourself of such obvious mental agility, I mean to say who can argue with such razor sharp repartee? One does not stand a chance when confronted with such logical debate.:yuk:

[Sunfish]

I think its in QF's interests to string you along as far as possible.

It might be instructive to calculate how much "back pay" Qantas accumulates every week they can keep you on a lower rate, and more importantly, the interest on that back pay each week - which I expect you don't receive.

My guess would be that it is in QF's interest to delay any settlement for as long as is humanly possible...ie: until you all get up to walk out the door.


Assume cost of funds = 6% pa

Say 2000 Lames at an average of $80K all up per year.

Thats 2000 X 80,000 X 3% = 4.8 million but of course thats a full year

Interest on half of that at 6% is $144,000 that Qantas has saved by delaying settlement with you (less consultants fees) .

I'm sure PAF will be only to happy to get out his calculator and do the proper compound interest calculation for you to get an exact answer.

You might also like to think of the tax implications of receiving such a lump sum as well.

[Short_Circuit]

Sunfish, I guess someones ego is getting in the way of logic.
30 scabs sitting on their butts @ $100k = $3,000,000. for 6 months
$3M X 2 (ie p/a) = $6,000,000.
Seems like delaying tactics does not add up.

plus ça change :ugh:

[Redstone]

Sunfish I think you are dead right, the only point I will dissagree on however is that the dealy tactic is not untill we walk out the door but untill such time as the "back pay" amount is enough to sway the middle ground into an acceptance of the EBA Q engineering have put on the table. It is a big stick they always like to wave, but in my humble and un complicated opinion it shouldn't even be mentioned in negotiation, it is a fait acompli.

[Big Enis Burdett]

Sunfish,

Don't forget the pi**ed off employee factor. With on time departures heading south from 90% at a great rate of knots, how much is that really costing them?


Big E

[rudderless1]

Sad but true, the only winners out of the current debacle is the consultants on an hourly rate and retainer, maybe some managers who scam a bonus before all is exposed and realised.
Qf staff are now disengaged and reeling from the lies, deceit, stupidity and greed of QF mismanagement.
Virgin, John Holland and even Jetstar roll on with more content and engaged people BUILDING BUSINESSES RATHER THAN DESTROYING. TAKING FULL ADVANTAGE OF QF'S STUPIDITY BY POACHING THE BEST PEOPLE QF IS GIVING AWAY. TRAINING AND PREPARING FOR THE FUTURE. QF has destroyed the can do of its people. The clowns at the top sit scratching their heads why deskilling, underpaying and outsourcing does not work as planned.
The FUD factor has lost its potency, record profits year after year followed by relatively reducing wages in the industry has hit the nerve. We will soon find out if the members will sell cheaply, I doubt they will now as too many are really pissed and are happy to fully expose the shortfalls of current management to aid their plight.
The young talent isn't staying or starting. They see and are offered no future.
Even being trained will see them paid 30% less than their equivalent at VB or JQ.
Those higher up the chain get equivalent money for much more responsibility and training than the VB or JQ.
Why has our daft management set such a stupid agenda defies belief but is explained by two wordsGREED and STUPIDITY:=.
Will QF ever recover?:(

[The Mr Fixit]

ooooooohhh you're a hard man Rudd erless, so caustic haha

EBA meet tomorrow oh to be a fly on the wall, it seems QF may have employed SCABS to attend in the managers' place :eek:

[amos2]

Qantas will be around forever whether we like it or not...

the guvmint will never let it it be otherwise.

We all know that, so let's not get too carried away here! :yuk:

[another superlame]

Grouter I left QF when it was my decision. I have moved onto greener pastures and haven't looked back. I am not a stooge or insider but do still have interest in the goings on there as I have some very close friends that this whole thing affects.
You have been through EBAs before obviously and I am just stating the bleeding obvious. I have been on the recieving end of these same tactics when the AMEs were negotiating in 2001/02.
I really don't think things will be different in 3 weeks time. Apart from the company buying some time.
For the record I was offered the 100k scab money but I have morals.
Although it didn't stop any LAME scabbing the OT when the AMEs were out in 01/02.

It is good to see the LAMEs finally grow a backbone and stand up to the company this time but it is too little too late unless you are all prepared to walk out as ONE.

QF knows that with interest rates climbing and petrol and everything else getting more expensive by the day the have you all over a barrel. Not many people on 80-100k with a 300-400k mortgage can risk losing money. So it will end up being put up with 3% or fight hard for what you believe in.

[grouter]

if I slighted you then I apologise. If, as you say, you are out of the immediate industry then please keep your posts a little less incendiary.
Good luck in whatever venture you are now engaged.

amos2... we really need an attitude adjustment.

[The_King]

S.P. should tell QF, any offer would have to be made before 24 Jan.
That way it would give the ALAEA time to gauge the feeling of the the members.
Maybe even an informal ballet (at a local station level) with each station reporting the results to SP.
Then if PIA is still on, we can be rolling by 01 Feb.

[MENDAERO]

The three clauses are sorted.

XPT gone

Definition of employee gone

part time, casual up from 5% to 7.5% (instead of unlimited)


They've just got the little matter of pay to deal with now.

[shitthatsbig]

numbskull: I would love to come back.

You must be joking. When did you leave QF Numbskull?

I don't know anyone that has left QF and ever wants to see the inside of that place again. The big wide world has too many good opportunities to go backwards and be treated like sh:mad:t at Q again.

The only option for QE now is to disband and start again, Thats exactly what Managemant are doing. The industrial woes of QF as a whole must be changed. The ALAEA are powerless to stop it now, they needed to make a stand 5 years ago.

Although (i repeat my analogy) The ALAEA's definition of make a stand:
Stand, Turn, Bend, Cop it Dry and like it. Or just leave.

I left recently and haven't looked back.

[rudderless1]

****thatsbig, your looking back!:hmm:

[shitthatsbig]

Is that the best you can come up with???????:zzz:

[cementhead]

The three clauses are sorted.

XPT gone

Definition of employee gone

part time, casual up from 5% to 7.5% (instead of unlimited)


why did they even try, good work alaea :ok:

[LAMEA380]

You should not accept the offer...................stick to your guns.

5% pay increase or walk out........be strong.....you will win......you will break QF management,

they are about to cave in.......

come on comrades , let fight all the way, :D

[600ft-lb]

lamea380, even though you do speak crap most of the time, I think the attempt at a bit of sarcasm on your behalf is probably closer to the truth then you'd like to think.

[employes perspective]

who let AP back into this forum

[Bush Pig]

Who let amos out of his cage? :}

[LAMEA380]

Hi 600 RE your below comment

lamea380, even though you do speak crap most of the time, I think the attempt at a bit of sarcasm on your behalf is probably closer to the truth then you'd like to think.


I hope its true , yep i really do,

i will be waving to you all from the other side of the fence,

come where's there fire boys, QF is punch drunk , dont let it slip, action, action, action,

I truly hope you get what you deserve (ooops i mean wish for)

[domo]

so lame380 you have got a 6 month contract with qantas, to assist in on time departures if lames go out, could you please tell me how a superlame like you were unemployed before qantas gave you this opportunity to work on aircraft,and are you hoping to become an a 380 lame with which company qantas, john holland,

[LAMEA380]

Domo, who said i was unemployed, always said i was a AWU fan,

PM me and i can organise membership for you, or i suppose you will stick it out then join, either way i am here for you,

[domo]

well you posted that you signed up
am new to this site, but have signed up with them, call me a scab i really dont care, i have recieved regular payments and it has made a difference to my life so please keep going, NEWPORT AVIATION may well be around longer than this strike action, i am surprised our esteemed leaders at the ALAEA did not see this or anticipate this, what have they been doing.....
then you posted
Yes Red, i was happy to have invited them to my house on XMAS eve and sign on, got my first pay cheque there and then , nice little xmas eve present.
then more
do you want a gig too, i just made a big list of things i am going to do with my money, holiday, new car, pay off the mortage, and i will be sure to smile at you whilst you are locked out

then you start all this about our fellow unionists at the AWU. lookin back at your posts you should really get a hobby because trolling forums is a sad way to spend a life, please if you have nothing to add. dont add

[LAMEA380]

Domo,

Once again domo please read my last response

i will repeatit as you may have reading issues

I said and i quote "who said i was unemployed"

makes your response look pretty silly doesnt it, nothing inconsistent about my posts, however looking back at yours it makes me laugh

you are obviously very very intelligent

[600ft-lb]

Whoever LAMEA380 is working for, its a pretty crude attempt to get some inter-union anger started.

[Sunfish]

Beat me to it. There will be trolls spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) and there will also be "reverse trolls" - rabble rousers, who will try and invite you to do things that are illegal, immoral or unethical. Don't bite, stick to your guns.

And a further point, managers never have any respect for scabs, and get rid of them at the earliest opportunity as they have demonstrated that they will do anything for money, shaft anyone (including management if it suits them) and can't be trusted.

[Bumpfoh]

"And a further point, managers never have any respect for scabs, and get rid of them at the earliest opportunity as they have demonstrated that they will do anything for money, shaft anyone (including management if it suits them) and can't be trusted."


Sunfish you obviously haven't worked for QF!:yuk:

[The_King]

Qan Share price $4.66.......and falling.
Well done GD.
Your on the right track now.

[NAS1801]

Hey all, the best thing you can do is to block the trolls/stooges, then you will not be tempted to reply to them. As stated in the old thread by someone,

User CP

Buddy / Ignore lists (under miscellaneous).

Lets do our best to stop them having this thread shut down too.

[Short_Circuit]

Share price $4.66
GD that is 3 BILLION DOLLARS wiped off the balance sheet in 2 months.

[Short_Circuit]

Wingers is correct in bringing me back to an even keel.
Speculation of disasters is uncalled for and does not serve
any good to either party at this time or place.
This is a rumour network not speculation network.
Things are looking sad at QF but there is still hope of
reserection post GD & DC.
I hope I am there to see the good times return.

[PitPin]

Well who is worse ?

The ex-lame ,union rep come lean sigma hero (magenta coloured belt) or
the Melbourne special projects DMM training scabs ?

Equally as bad I'd say . How soon they forget where they come from !

The lean ex lame union rep once made the big statement "that we should all leave the aircraft in the hangar and F### the company " I wonder how that sits with the black belts!

DOGS

[cementhead]

any up date on the eba?

[wingers]

Sunfish has called me a troll

He should be banned for ever for the comment relating to my objection of Short Circuits comment, i will not repeat what short circuit said

Short ircuit , you have my respect for your retraction a sign of a strong man.

However Sunfish you are nothing but a IDIOT , you really have no place amongst civilised MEN AND WOMEN,

MODERATOR I RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THAT YOU REVIEW ALL POSTS BY SUNFISISH , PARTICULARLY HIS AGREEMENT WITH PLANES FALLING OUT OF THE SKY.

SUNFISH, YOU ARE TREADING ON THIN ICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[amos2]

Oh Dear!...all this yelling and screaming is not good on Prune! :=

[grouter]

amos2, can you fark off...quietly? You won't be missed.

[life_sentence_as_AME]

grouter, you forgot to say please.....

[Itookdamoney]

I spent the day in MEL. Learning the ropes. Nice trainer. Ex LAME come special manager doing the training.
I can't wait for the action to start so that I can ground some QF aircraft, with no other LAMES around to contradict my judgement, and extra time taken to stick to their stupid procedures. The passengers are going to hate me.
$2300 a week for this. With a $20k bonus for long service. It's like money for old rope.
I guess I forgot to tell them that I'm still a card carrying member.
Should have called myself Mata Hari.

[NAS1801]

"Itookdamoney"

How do they expect someone who cannot even spell the word "the" to sign off aircraft?

[employes perspective]

itookdamoney the ALAEA is out for some names then your membership should be over you scab,whether you ground aircraft or not,no one wants you there,once this is all over you will NEVER be able to show your face again:=:=

[tail wheel]

Not going to spend my life reading and editing posts from children who won't play nice!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/Woomera/Closed-1.gif

Tail Wheel