Are there too many student pilots!

[scooby79]

Have just sat the first half of the ATPL exams at Gatwick and it started me thinking that there seems to be a lot of people. I would estimate about 60 candidates. Of those I would guess about 50 were going for their first professional license. There are 4 places in the UK where you can sit the exams although I expect Gatwick is the busiest but just after Christmas and New Year probably one of the quietest months. At a guess I would say the average per month is about 150 - 200 throughout the UK so about 2100 per year. How many jobs are there for 250hr fATPL holders each year? Training providers are saying the job prospects are good, I don't see how that is possible.

[d2k73]

Believe it or not the jobs are there! I sat my first set of ATPL exams this time last year and finished my training in the last few months. Landed a job on a 737 a matter of days after i had finished! And it's the same story with the majority of people i've trained with. Fortunatly it's a good time to be job hunting!

[db16]

I'm glad that I am no longer in the job market at 67 (current FI and MCCI) but all the indications are that the market is bouyant. Are you a member of the IPA? If not, it is worth joining, only £2.50 per month; ipapilot.com db16:)

[pt_flyer]

Just look at airlines like Easyjet and Ryanair. There are many student pilots, but the airlines are also expanding. :)

D2K73 - At which FTO did you get your training? I'm guessing you went integrated because of the time it took you to be a FO in a 737.

[maxdrypower]

Without wanting to jump into an integarted modular debate , I have a friend who was offered a job on 757's just after he passed his IR whilst on his MCC he was modular ?
I did actually think the same thing when enrolling that there do seem to be an inordinate amount of students . Well I think you gota be in it to win it I spose

[captain_rossco]

Flyer magazine quoted 1200 odd new fATPL(A) holders last year. The jobs will be getting doled out on merit as always, so if you've got it, you're in, if not, you ain't.
Students lack of willing/ or funds may hold a few back with regards to non-bonded or upfront type rating costs, as may an inability to relocate.
Word on the kerb is that multi-stop training is not a good place to be at the moment, a shame as there are no doubt some stonkingly good pilots out there who haven't gone one stop modular or integrated route.
Having had a few Airline recruitment folk through the door here recently, it would appear that for the number of people 'graduating' with their fATPL's each year, there should be more than enough jobs to go around.
Some students are tied to an airline from the beginning of their training, and so will not be fair game for many of the airlines, meaning that it might just be, that providing a bit of TP action floats your boat, the less fussy are in with a good chance of getting a tidy 1st job with a bonded rating and a half acceptable starting salary!

Regards

CR

:ok:

[d2k73]

pt_flyer- Trained with a certain modular outfit in florida! I dont particularly like the idea of the integrated route but we wont go into that!

However i was very lucky the way it worked out! Have only sent 1 CV and got the job days after i had finished my training.

Generally if you're up to scratch and have a decent personality you shouldn't have too much of a problem with getting a job!

[Put1992]

You know, i was thinking exactly the same thing the other day

[Adios]

Yes, the market is bouyant. In addition, you should not assume that all the people in that exam hall will finish or that all are seeking airline jobs. I know quite a few with other aspirations; everything from preparing to fly aircraft they own to aspiring to the very worthy goal of becoming a professional flight instructor. Some of them will be pursuing helicopter ratings as well, though a much smaller percent. Must say though that I am surprised this thread is approaching post number 10 without a doom-and-gloomer jumping in to throw water on it from a half empty glass!

[Leezyjet]

Looking at the age of some of the people at LGW last week, I would not be surprised if some of them were ex-military who were converting to civillian licenses as well and who knows what they are going after !!.

:)

[A Very Civil Pilot]

without a doom-and-gloomer jumping in to throw water on it from a half empty glass!

However with recession, 'credit crunch' and an economic downturn on the way, predicted airline exansion is likely to slow down. There will probably be redundancies in the airline world over the next few years.

Make the most of it whilst it's here.

[Captain N]

Ryanair alone needs more than 400 pilots in 2008. so I would agree with previous posts too that there are enough jobs out there.

[boogie-nicey]

It's important to keep in perspective that some of the people going through the ATPL exams testing centres will not even complete their CPL/IR due to a number of reasons. Further some of the candidates are actually overseas as they use the CAA and more recently JAA system as a basis for training and licence issue in their respective countries.

However with the current generation of easy credit coming to an end perhaps the excesses of yesteryear and today will be balanced off with a decline in student numbers for years to come.

[Artie Fufkin]

Most people do their ATPL exams in two or three sittings. So you can therefore reduce the numbers you saw in the hall by between a half and two third for how many fATPLs are being issued. Add resits into the equation...

I've never met anyone yet who doesn't say that virtually everybody they trained with found work, it just took some unlucky ones a little longer than others.

[Lafyar Cokov]

Could someone let me know where all these jobs are???

[Greg2041]

Exciting news indeed. I am just starting out on the PPL route with a dream of flying and I hoping that my age won't be against me (eek 43!).

I read the comments by a Very Civil Pilot and noted,

"... with recession, 'credit crunch' and an economic downturn on the way, predicted airline exansion is likely to slow down. There will probably be redundancies in the airline world over the next few years."

However I am far more optimistic due to the impending 2012 Olympics and the vast number of pilots that are due to retire during the next 5 years from some major airlines.

Good luck to all those who are dreaming and remember you need to take action to make those dreams a reality!

[BitMoreRightRudder]

vast number of pilots that are due to retire during the next 5 years from some major airlines.


I wouldn't hold your breath on that one, the retirement age has gone backwards for a start. The credit crunch may well affect things, especially if the US hits a recession. Still jobs to be had at the moment, though things are leaner than they were 2004-mid 2007. However, I don't know anyone who failed to get a flying job as long as they stuck at it. Those I know who did fall by the way side gave up very quickly.

So if you're sure (!) then go for it and good luck. As for too many student pilots who knows, it's better than having too many lawyers!

[boogie-nicey]

"As for too many student pilots who knows, it's better than having too many lawyers!" ......

.... Amen to that :ok:

[Gazeem]

It's nice to hear good news stories about recruitment.

A few stories I've heard on the wires in the last week or so.

Australia needs 1200 pilots a year but can only train 400 per year.

Emirates and Etihad expanding massively (not jobs for new guys but as experienced pilots move out to the desert it leaves slots in other places).

Low cost expansion european and asian

I'm currently seconded to a North American airline and I've heard serious problems with jet sim availabilty for training crews.


BUT also

Enviromental threats - Antartica is shrinking - unusually hot year in Kenya and Canada. ( This may affect all our long term interests in this industry - I know we are not the major cause but we are an easy and popular villian.

Oil prices too high.

Possibly overambitious expansion plans by airlines.

Rumours of redundancies amongst merging airlines.

Several new start airlines struggling.

Property on the slide - esp if Spanish or other holiday homes start to crash, a lot of low cost business goes up in smoke!


Remember it only takes some small tin pot dictator and a world scale event to throw airlines rapidly into reverse.


I'm not claiming hard facts for any of these points just rumours I've heard on the flight deck - this is ppRune after all.

Good luck.

[Bearing 123]

IMHO I think the training organisations are using the so called pilot shortage as a very strong marketing tool. Are there too many new pilots on the market......who can tell, if whats been said on this thread is true than most of the newbies are getting jobs, but I know at least 4 really good guys who have been out of training a year or so and still can't get a look in. I have tried to get them in with my company but there is an 1000h min to join as an F/O on a citation and we have hundreds of CV's on file.

There IS a shortage of experienced type rated guys and I think that is where the whole pilot shortage thing started. No doubt it has started to filter down but the UK market is by no means screaming for low hours guys and sadly most that do get lucky enough to get offered a job have to pay huge amounts of money for a type rating and then start off at a relatively low salary.

I know this is a bit negative for those who are just qualified or just starting out, but we all have to be a bit realistic and realise that Aviation is one of the most volitile industries there is. the highs are very high and the lows.......... well enough said.

In saying that, never lose sight of the dream and if its truly your ambition to fly then don't let anything stop you, but go into this with your eyes open and listen to the bad news as well as the good.

Good Luck to all:ok:

[dartagnan]

I second the post above, it is still very hard to find a job.
selections are not easy, lot of psy tests, must speak this and that,and very few are hired (sometimes less than 3% during the selections).

[JB007]

And I do think 2008 may have a few type-rated/experienced pilots forced onto the market!!!!

Read the post Re: Silverjet

Keep tabs on those merging airlines...

Really know your place in the market, I remember a BALPA job conference where a certain PPRuNe Administrator asked everyone in the room to raise there hand with <500 hours and a Frozen ATPL - that was 98% of the conference hall!!! Competition is tough...you won't like it but Nepitism is everything, read posting on 19 year old at Titan and who is father is...