Loadmaster Duty Hours

[Eagle18th]

This topic may have been covered in other forums before but let's have a go in our (temporary) home forum.

As a former L/M and F/M does anyone share my concerns about the number of hours worked by L/Ms who are not subject to duty hours regulations?
I was once on a trip where I didn't sleep in a hotel bed for more than two weeks and was still expected to make important calculations and ensure safe loading.
Mistakes can easily occur under such extreme fatigue...imagine the consequences of not converting kilos to pounds before completing the loadsheet for a fully loaded freighter.
Are pilots honestly happy to countersign the weight and balance knowing it has been prepared by someone who may not have slept for several days?
This is not meant to incite a "we work harder than you" argument, but how about some opinions from pilots and loadies.

[wheelchock]

I personally think you guys deserve, and need the same amount of rest that we get.In a hotel that is.

But don't get me wrong, once your job on the ground is done, that's it for you guys.Now you can rest.The argument may come up like 'yes but who's gonna make you guys's a coffee, and your meals' etc.Well, i personally think, we should do that ourselves.You guys are Loadmasters, and not cardtards.

I've flown with LoadMasters who also haven't had seen a bed in 2 weeks.That particulary doesn't worry me concerning the LoadSheet.I know you guys won't screw up your W/B.

If you would legally caracterize your profession, you are entitled to crewrest.Loadmasters are not Cockpit Crew, therefore they must be falling in the Cabin Crew catagory, which clearly has regs about having crewrest.

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............runs and hides for cover.........

[CargoRat2]

Very interesting & appropriate topic. I heard FAA were going to look into this with a view to some "rules". That was a year ago. Any news anyone?
At Cargolux, we have 16hrs in our contract. Obviously not always practical, so we get the job done, then go to the hotel (paid as overtime when applicable). It's an arrangement that works.
I for one am not a good sleeper on airplanes, not even when a bed is available. I have to be REALLY tired before I sleep. Even then, its not exactly restfull.
As an example, last year: I wanted to to observe the goings on at some of our stations so flew LUX/ZRH/BOM/HKG/BOM/ZRH/LUX 46 hours. I wasn't doing any W&B, just observing a station (guess which one!). I mananged to sleep from BOM back to ZRH.
Nothing in the JARs either, since the whole issue of Duty Hours is a hot potato (Subsection Q is a blank page!)

If you're overtired, you will make mistakes. Tell the Capt. of the condition you are in & have him/her double check your calculations, maybe even inspect the loading/locks together. There's no shame in that.

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rgds Rat

[Dark Skies]

As for duty hours all I have to say is one word................AFRICA

When we operated down there it was expected that we would do the decent thing and operate back to back.

It would be good to have some regulation of hours but things do lapse sometimes.

I myself feel that it is necessary to have some sort of limitation on the number of hours worked, after all the flight may only be 4 hours but we could have been loading for 4 hours previous to departure, I would not be the first person to fall off the high loader as I was tired!



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'Thats not Flying! Thats just falling with style'

[wheelchock]

That's not a word Kevin, that's a continent.

[CargoRat2]

Its a bloody shambles, but always come back with a good story!
My very first flight was CDG to Addis Abeba onto NBO. We were sinking into the tarmac at ADD - melted under us. Pallets being towed with a Land Rover, people wandering around the taxyways on the way out!


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rgds Rat

[wheelchock]

Reminds me of Kin, goats,sheep you name it crossing the runway while you're taking off.Kids over there love the jetblast, they get behind the airplane's jetblast which blasts them straight into the grass.Looks like great fun 2!

[wheelchock]

Well there you go Hogg.They don't fall under Cockpit Crew.Therefore they should fall under Cabin Crew, and they do have duty time regs.

[CargoRat2]

Thing is, compare a Loadmaster to cabin crew & someone might get thumped. I mean really :)


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rgds Rat

[wheelchock]

I'm not compairing at all.But you know what I mean.

[CargoRat2]

Interesting bit on seat pallets. We asked Boeing if we could do this for horse attendants. They said "no way". A pure 74F doesn't have enough doors.

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rgds Rat

[CargoOne]

United Kingdom
Air Accidents Investigation Branch

Aircraft Accident Report No: 2/2000 (EW/C99/1/2)
http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/formal/gchnl/gchnl.htm

Channex F27 crash due to wrong W&B:
.......
However, unlike the role of cabin attendant, the role of 'Loadmaster' is not formally recognised by UK aviation legislation as part of a crew complement. Consequently loadmasters may be carried as a de-facto member of a crew but they do not require to be licensed. They have to meet company requirements for proficiency and CAA requirements regarding emergency procedures. Nevertheless, their legal status on the aircraft is technically similar to that of a passenger.
........

[HalesAndPace]

And, of course, if they're unlicensed, then you can make them work longer hours, so you need less bods, keeping your costs down.