Airport Security Complaints & Incidents (Merged)

[Flapping_Madly]

Couple of days ago flew UK to Spain. Usual stuff with just one bag; take off your belt; etc etc.

Wife's stuff went through then woman says sorry madam I have to do random bag search.

Opened her big zip up "shopping " type bag took out handbag. Poked around in big bag then opened handbag. Took out my wife's credit card wallet and removed each credit card in turn and examined both sides.

Then took out purse/wallet and unzipped money pocket. Stirred the coins with her index finger. Zipped it up . Moved to banknote section and took out notes and examined each one both sides and put them back.

Then said thats fine and walked off. Unfortunately my wife had no idea how much money she had. I watched very carefully and don't think I saw any notes go up a sleeve.

But what in the name of all that's holy was the point of the whole exercise? Are muslims using exploding credit cards ? Are aircraft being brought down by exploding tenners.

It's having to bite my tongue to avoid alienating these d!ick heds and no doubt making things worse that raises my blood pressure. Grrrrrr!:E

[TightSlot]

You are making the classic mistake of applying logic and common-sense to an airport security situation.

Continue, and you will be driven insane...

[Rush2112]

At Changi they say no need to take my wallet from my pocket and put through the scanner, and then it sets off the detector as I walk through. Then they wave the handheld scanner around, it bleeps as it passes over the wallet. Open the wallet and they always look at the credit cards, access cards etc. Clearly these are a major potential threat, and I think you need to take the issue of exploding Barclaycards more seriously my friend.

Actually seeing as credit cards involve interest, muslims cannot have them so we should be safe :ok:

[bealine]

I think you need to take the issue of exploding Barclaycards more seriously my friend.

I think taking the p155 out of security, and credit cards in particular, is a very poor idea!

The security men are told in their training that on one of the hijacked aircraft on 09/11/03, a razor blade secreted between two credit cards was used to cut the throat of a stewardess which enabled the hijackers to gain access to the flight deck. Whether that is truthful or not, or an ancecdotal tale to make security staff more vigilant we shall never know.

Just because 5 years have elapsed since the last major aviation incident, it doesn't mean the threat has disappeared. Indeed, the incident at Edinburgh Airport shows that the threat is all too real and it is Airport Security that we rely on to keep us safe!

The fact remains that terrorism remains a very real threat - no matter how much you ever want things to return to normal, they never will be again,

Get used to it!

..........Oh, and as far as honesty is concerned, don't worry! Of all the millions of items opened and searched by the TSA in America since 09/11/03, a handful of items have been reported as stolen (and most accusations subsequently disproved!) In the UK, all Airport ID cardholders have undergone Criminal Record Checks and are certificated as "clean", including the loaders and baggage handlers so often falsely accused on this web-site and Flyertalk!

[419]

Maybe not exploding credit cards, but they might have been looking for something like this.

http://www.1sks.com/images/nemesis/nem-nk3.jpg

The best Credit Card Knife we've ever carried!
Slightly thicker than a credit card, the Nemesis Knives Ti-Card is made in the U.S.A. from a strong, lightweight Titanium alloy.

When glancing in ones wallet, the Ti-Card looks like a genuine credit card. Though it's slightly reduced dimenisons minimize the risk of damage to the owner's purse or wallet.

While providing a sharp edge for emergency or only occasional use, the Ti-Card should not affect the magnetic information strips on nearby credit cards.

[Final 3 Greens]

Well why is it okay to buy litre glass bottles airside.

If I had a choice of facing a razor blade or a broken bottle, I'd pick the former.

Sorry Bealine, but I don't agree with your view, much of the security we pax see is window dressing.

I am sure that there are deep and dark things that we don;t see that keep us safe.

[419]

Well why is it okay to buy litre glass bottles airside.

Totally irelevant.

Yes, bottles can be used as weapons, as can plastic cuttlery, dinner trays, ballpoint pens etc, but, this is not their primary purpose. What are airlines expected to do, ban everything that has the potential to be used as a weapon?.

Hidden knives such as the one in my earlier post only have one purpose, and the advert even implies that they are easy to miss by someone looking for them.
When glancing in ones wallet, the Ti-Card looks like a genuine credit card

[Final 3 Greens]

Totally irelevant.

Applying your logic would suggest that improvised explosive devices are totally irrelevant, whilst purpose designed devices are the real threat.

That is nonsensical, as is your comment.

It is the intention of the owner of an object that is more important than the object, as Israeli screening recognises.

[HappyFran]

looking4idiots2con (http://www.looking4idiots2con) wow only in the USA could you dream up a need for such a thing.:eek:
Seems like security have a real need to be very careful.

My own twopence worth is that I think the primary job of the security check is to freak out the would be terrorist with there vigilance and then hopefully pick them out using a bit of surveillance (edgy / sweaty palms etc)...or am I just being naive.:oh:

[419]

It is the intention of the owner of an object that is more important than the object

I couldn't agree more.

Probably at least 99.9% of owners of a bottle of duty free spirits would have no intention of doing anything illegal with them.

Could the same be said of owners of illegal hidden knives? , Knives that are designed to evade being detected.

[UniFoxOs]

In the UK, all Airport ID cardholders have undergone Criminal Record Checks and are certificated as "clean", including the loaders and baggage handlers so often falsely accused on this web-site and Flyertalk!

Interesting idea in view of THIS (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/heathrow-airport-news-111107d.htm)

Presumably illegal immigrants don't have criminal records here!!

UFO

[bealine]

Sorry Bealine, but I don't agree with your view, much of the security we pax see is window dressing.

I quite agree and I wrote a long letter to the DFT expressing my concerns but, guess what, it went unanswered! I happened to be totally pi55ed off at having a brand new sealed can of Waitrose soup purchased 30 mins before my shift confiscated - what did they think I was going to do, open it stuff it with explosives and weld it up again?

However, the alternative is to let these guys do nothing and face the consequences. You obviously have twigged the dangers from freely available glass bottles and the kitchen implements available at airside restaurants. Any bottle of duty free spirits can become an instant Molotov cocktail in the wrong hands!

At the end of the day whatever the guys in green do, Pruners and Flyertalkers will ridicule them! It's about time you gave them a break - it's a f***ing awful, thankless job that they have been asked to do and frankly, our gallant British Frequent Flyers should be ashamed of the abysmal way they treat them!

[teej5536]

Indeed, the incident at Edinburgh Airport shows that the threat is all too real and it is Airport Security that we rely on to keep us safe!

I assume you mean Glasgow airport? :confused:

[Final 3 Greens]

Could the same be said of owners of illegal hidden knives

Please define an illegal knife.

[Final 3 Greens]

Bealine

I don't need bottles or cutlery, I'll just club the crew to death with my laptop power brick and then strangle the survivors with the mains lead :}

Unfortunately the guys/gals in green don't help themselves.

Only yesterday I passed through a major London airport, the security lady gave me a crate to put my laptop in and then 10 seconds later asked me if I had a laptop.

Sorry, but that is not very impressive for someone who is meant to be alert.

[419]

Please define an illegal knife.

I won't attempt to define it. I will let the law do it for me.

The Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988 specified descriptions of weapons to which section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 applies. This Order adds a new category of weapon, the disguised knife, to the list of specified weapons contained in the 1988 Order.


[I]. The Schedule to the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) Order 1988[2], which specifies offensive weapons for the purposes of section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, shall be amended by the insertion into paragraph 1 of that Schedule after sub-paragraph (n) the words -
"a disguised knife, that is any knife which has a concealed blade or concealed sharp point and is designed to appear to be an everyday object of a kind commonly carried on the person or in a handbag[/B], briefcase, or other hand luggage (such as a comb, brush, writing instrument, cigarette lighter, key, lipstick or telephone)"

[bealine]

I assume you mean Glasgow airport?

Sorry - brain not too sharp this morning!

...............But then, I am on a day off! :}

[bealine]

Unfortunately the guys/gals in green don't help themselves.

Only yesterday I passed through a major London airport, the security lady gave me a crate to put my laptop in and then 10 seconds later asked me if I had a laptop.

Sorry, but that is not very impressive for someone who is meant to be alert.

My son, home from University in May this year for the Summer recess, got himself fixed up as a temporary Green Man contracted until September. He went through the four weeks training - no problem, and was over the moon because the salary, for a poor student, was first rate!

He went to "shadow" the security staff and lasted just one day before jacking it in and getting a bar job at the legal minimum hourly rate! On that one day, working for Airport Security he was spat on twice, kicked twice, deliberately tripped up on his way to a break and sworn at and cussed more times than he likes to remember! The sad fact was, that all the abuse came from regular, frequent travellers who purport to be "Ladies" and "Gentlemen"! The holidaymakers and overseas friends and family visitors were patient and forgiving!

If you talk to the Men and Women in Green, that is if you can be bothered to treat them as human beings, you will find that this level of abuse is a daily occurrence. That is why half the "arches" are closed at LHR and LGW - the BAA can't retain staff and can't get the loyal staff to do overtime because of the abuse from regular passengers!

A sad indictment of Flyertalk and Pprune posters!

[radeng]

The problem is that it's a positive feedback situation, which leads to problems in any system. Not enough gates open, hacked off security, passengers held up, hacked off passengers start trying to take it out on security personnel....

Mind you to say 'good morning ' to the guy, and then have him grunt at you as if you've insulted him doesn't help matters.

[fallen]

But what in the name of all that's holy was the point of the whole exercise?Can offer a couple of reasons.

1a. She has no idea what she's doing.
1b. She's been told to do it by someone with no idea.
2. Is looking for fraud related activities. eg credit cards in different names

[Final 3 Greens]

419

Reading your extract of the law, I would say that the TI card is not a disguised knife, since the blade is not hidden.

The TI card could be hidden in a wallet, but then a normal knife could be hidden under clothes - that does not make iot a disguised knife.

As far as I can see, the TI card is exactly what it is, a piece of titanium with a cutting edge, which probably has many normal and legal uses (like a razor blade), but which would not be allowed onto an aircraft.

Once the again, the intention of the person possessing it is the key; I've accidentally taken a swiss knife through a couple times and it has not been detected (I take 100-110 flights most years, so the odd lapse on my part is inevitable), but clearly it presented no security risk, because I didn't intend to hijack the plane with it.

Sikhs take kirpans through security on a regular basis and I don't recall these being used in any crimes.

So there you have it, in my opinion we should focus more on the passenger profile.

[MrSoft]

Totally irelevant.
Yes, bottles can be used as weapons


Forgive me but that's rather self-negating!

For sure you can do a lot of damage with a bottle of Johnnie Walker.

Security personnel at both LBA and MAN I find are unfailingly polite; the good ones initiate a greeting, and the rest at least respond in kind. Security at LHR never did either :sad: and I am sorry to say are just plain rude mostly. But in general, like everything in life, you get back what you put in.

When I see some of the moronic pax behaviour, even after all this time, bringing the queue to a halt with shaving foam, perfume, bottles of juice you name it in their hand baggage, well I can see how frustrating the job must be.

[lambo_guy08]

whilst in security at LHR (heathrow) i was puzzled as to why my mothers lip-balm was confiscated at in security, as you could imagine, she wasn't happy about it and had to make a comment about having a Surface To Air missile in the lip-balm, which almost lost us our flight! Anyway, could someone tell me why LHR security would think lip-balm could possibly be a threat to an aircfaft ?:confused:

[perkin]

There's no reason at all why a small tub/tube of lip balm should be confiscated as long as its in the small, clear, plastic bag provided...You can take liquids/gels/creams etc up to 100ml in size per item and with a total volume of no more than 1000ml. LHR security have done your mother out of a tube of lip balm!

[radeng]

Isn't there something rather crazy about the fact that I'm allowed a 150 or 200mL bottle of medicine, but not the same amount of water?

Some medicines don't come in 100mL sizes.........Furosemide, for example.

[Chica]

On a recent journey through LGW South terminal, my mother in law, age 76, had to (a) endure the total chaos of the so called queueing system that happens after the ticket checker then (b) had to struggle to take off her shoes whilst in the security queue whilst the ignorant "green man" looked on, smirking, and finally (c) a full body rub down. There should be some common sense applied to security checking, or are terrorists now recruiting white anglo saxon grannies to their cause?

[Passagiata]

Chica, sorry, but I'm glad she was checked out. Why was it a struggle to take off her shoes - doesn't she do that daily? I expect the "full-body rub-down" was carried out with no salacious undertones given the lady's age. I dislike fellow passengers who object to security screening - particularly when I see cabin crew and flight attendants subjected to same - daily. And it is applied very democratically to celebrities and government officials. Why the fuss over a scant few minutes of inconvenience.

[IB4138]

Passagiata

I hope if and when you get to the lady's age, that you are still nimble enough to be able to bend down, remove your shoes and put them back on your feet with ease and without pain.

The lack of chairs to sit upon or anything or anybody to assist people with such problems is all too evident, not only at LGW, but at other airports as well. I actually wonder whether these "shoe checking areas" confirm with legislation for people with minor disabilities. I have a problem with my achilies on one foot and require a shoe horn to replace shoes. A simple implement for assistance.

Are they provided?...are they hell as like.

The reason given to me for this lack of such a basic instrument, from a security supervisor at Manchester, is that they would be stolen, if provided. :rolleyes:

Doesn't say much for what is supposedly a secure area or it's staff does it?

[Passagiata]

True enough ... and no wonder we are seeing so many more velcro fasteners on more upmarket shoes, you used to only see them on really cheap shoes! In general I stand by my comment though - I've witnessed many able-bodied people making a***holes of themselves in the security queues for no reason other than sheer bloody-mindedness and self-centredness. It's no surprise to me that security staff develop a bit of a Teflon response.

[radeng]

I reckon half the problem is Bl**&y Awful Airports total failure to provide enough security staff and machines, thus leading to long queues. I don't know how much they get per passenger to cover 'security', but it wouldn't surprise me to find that if you dug deep enough into the accounts, you'd find they made a profit because of their parsimony. The TSA at Phoenix the last time I went through, had a line moving so quickly you didn't have time to put your bag on the ground before you were moving! Compare with the so called 'fast track' at T4 last Monday - 13 minutes.

[SpamFritters]

So the bleeper thingy goes off...
And i'm told to take my belt off...
Walk back through... and suprise suprise it goes off again.
At which point the man searhces me rather throughly... to the point in which I felt his hands slip down the inside of my jeans (front) and whilst not m aking urm "contact" i certainly felt a bit compromised.

I didn't say anything at the time as I was a bit shocked and embarased... is this normal procedure? Never had it before....

[SpamFritters]

Anybody know what the machines are that were being trialed in Miami in October.

You walk into a thing like a scanner but 'longer' and it has doors on the front... it then blasts you with jet air... what does it do?

It was quite funny as i wasn't meant to go through it... but I said to the security people in a jolly way "cor.. that looks fun" (bit of an ice breaker and something to relieve the bordom of standing in a que for ages)... and so he laughed and told me to go over there and try it..

He also said when i was walking away that they have to strip search me :eek: thankfully it was a joke :)

[Donkey497]

Yup, they have a whole load of them at the entrance to the CN tower in Toronto, just before you get to the lifts to go up to the glass floored section and the revolving restaurant. Don't know just how accurate they are, or all what they check for, but it did single my uncle out for "special" attention.:eek::eek:

Ah well, it was his own fault for filing up with gas half an hour before hand. That certainly taught him not to run on an empty tank.......:ugh::ugh:

[SpamFritters]

ah thanks chaps!
Maybe it wasn't on trial then... it was just they only had one of the machines!

Also can you tell me what the machines were in terminal 3 in June 2007.. we went off to oz on 30th June and some people were selected to go into an enclosed box thing.. not sure what happened in there though.. but i'm sure they said it was a trial of new equipment...

When going out to Miami in October from T3 I didn't see them.

[10secondsurvey]

I've just read through these posts, and there seems a lot of the 'pity the poor security staff' type of comments.

Let's get real. Invariably going through LHR and other locations, I and other flyers are treated like sh*t. That's the reality. The reason for the staff getting abuse is simply down to god-awful rank (tantamount to criminal) decision making by airport management.

I have experienced and seen first -hand many times over the years in airports here, utter bl*ody mindedness, and inflammatory behaviour by so-called security 'professionals'. But when anybody dares to question what they do in even the most civil and polite way, then they are singled out for 'extra scrutiny. This singling out for 'extra attention', is nothing but bl*ody minded petulance of the worst kind, used in an off hand way to deliberately irritate and delay law abiding passengers who dare to even suggest maybe more staff are needed.

I'm sorry, but when I pay lots of money to fly (including paying for the security), I expect to be treated in a civil manner. I do NOT need shouted at continuously by some spotty teenager in a yellow tabard.

As regards a comment earlier by PASSAGIATA regarding an elderly pax having problems taking off shoes. Wise up! I know two relatives (one in his late forties) who both suffer from arthritis (as many elderly people do), and whilst they are not wheel chair bound, they have problems moving. In fact if you saw the guy in his forties walking you probably would not know he had a problem, until he tried to bend down or go up stairs.

One of the features of such conditions, is not only difficulty moving some joints, but ability to use all the muscle groups can also be reduced. This can affect balance, when reaching and stretching. So, there is EVERY reason why someone such as that would have real problems taking shoes off. Period.

When anybody in 'security' shouts in my direction to give orders, I ignore them, always. It works like this, I do not shout at them, so I will not tolerate them shouting to me. Simple.

[Final 3 Greens]

10 Second Survey

Your points are well made.

The only airports in the part of Europe I travel to,where I get regularly hassled by security, are in the UK.

The security is thorough at other airports, but the personnel are usually polite and pleasant, no doubt trained to recognise that the passengers are paying for the service and should be treated like customers, not inmates.

I found that some of the UK security people seem to be on a power/ego trip and some are just unpleasant.

[Passagiata]

Hi 10secondsurvey - for my part, I've always shopped around for exceptionally low fares, so I'm always in the 'not expecting much' passenger category. Perhaps buying really cheap tickets is the answer - lowers your expectations. Yeah yeah I know, standards all around should be maintained - but the reality is, I don't care too much about procedures on the ground. Aircraft maintenance and competent, minimally stressed flight crew are all I care about. The reality is, you're going to strike underpaid, somewhat resentful staff on the ground who are taking it out on management via the passenger. You're going to strike the odd security staffer on steroids. One life lesson long learned: only fight battles you can win!

[DW11]

Last night passing through Dusseldorf with another employee.

He hadn't put toiletries in a clear bag so was pulled after the scanner. I'm still busy putting clear bag, belt, laptop, jacket etc back where they belong while security went through his bag. Seeing that we were together, security officer ask if I can give him my clear bag, so I empty my toiletries into my case and hand the bag over.

At this stage the officer demands that I put my toiletries back in the clear bag, that both my and my colleague’s toiletries go in the same bag and that they are then put in my colleague’s case. I ask why and am told that toiletries cannot be removed from the clear bag until we reach our destination. She also decides to rescan my case, but has no interest in scanning the toiletries bag or rescanning my colleague's bag.

[hellsbrink]

Most stupid "security" measure I suffered was when a cigarette lighter was taken off of me at American Airlines check-in at LHR, with a comment like "you cannot take that on the plane" after I was picked out of the check in queue for a random luggage search. When I said "No problem, I'll buy another one airside" he glowered at me and started repeating "you cannot take a lighter onto the aircraft". When I said "who says I'll take it onto the aircraft?", the reply was <guess>. If ignorance is bliss then that guy must have been the happiest guy on the planet.

We were searched again before we got to the plane. No mention of lighters, matches, whatever, despite me smelling like an ashtray. Guess the first guy was grumpy because he didn't get a BJ that morning, but some consistency would be nice....

[radeng]

So you have to remove your belt and then end up with your trousers and underwear round your ankles. Who is responsible for this forced indecent exposure? And if I had a security guy with his hands in my trousers, I'd get through security, find a policeman and make a formal complaint of indecent assault - even if it meant I missed the flight!

[sunnygirl]

I work at LGW and yes wear green, i am always polite and make a point of greeting the passenger with an hello, and if searching a bag will have a chat to the passenger, in the short time i have been doing this job i have been told to go and :mad: myself so many times by people who you would think were civilised people, just for doing my job, i have lost count of the amount of times i have been verbally insulted by passengers because the metal detector has alarmed and they have needed to be searched.

Reacently a guy punched one of the female officers because she had the cheek to confiscate a litre bottle of water in the process he broke her nose, needless to say he didnt make his flight but put in a complaint against the gaurd for her making him miss his flight ( Go Figure).

I do agree some of the guys and gals i work with would never make it thru charm school and maybe should leave, but the majority are polite and understand the stress passenger can be under, but is that an excuse for some of the abuse we get on a daily basis.

At the end of the day something went wrong and the safety of an aircraft was compromised who would the travelling public blame?

I have also lost the amount of times i have been asked by a pax do i look like a terrorist, but i always tell the passenger i dont know what a terrorist looks like, which i think is a fair piont, but at all times i remain polite, at the end of the day i have to go thru the same security before starting work and during a shift if i have gone landside.

[Llademos]

Sunnygirl,

A good post, and certainly reflects what I experience when going through security, with bad apples on both sides.

A suggestion, though. There are plenty of notices when going through security to the effect that BAA Security Staff have a right to not be abused etc etc. How about adding, at the bottom, 'In return, we will be polite and courteous to you, the passenger, and will do our best to make the necessary security checks as short and hassle free as possible'.

Just my 2p worth ...

Ll

[Oneil]

:bored:Its a sad world when you have to punch a woman over a bottle of water :=

[trebor]

I feel that if a pax is abusive at the security point they should be refused entry for not complying to well known rules and regulations. If I have a pax being abusive to me at check in then I retain the boarding card ,ask them to go away , calm down and when they can be civil like I am to them come back for the boarding card. It still amazes me how many people come back to check in with bottles that are not allowed through security and then it is the airlines fault . Even after asking the pax if they have liquids in their hand luggage.

Also Bealine you are saying that all baggage handlers are clean as they have had their history checked . Whilst working as cabin crew a few years ago after landing back to base and waiting for caterers to arrive to offload the bars , I happened to open the forward service door and noticed 2 baggage handlers cutting the seals on the bars , after investigations by the police and court cases I was informed that a couple of these guys had whole bar carts in found in their houses. This was at a time where 5 year history checks were needed. :ugh:

With regards to glass bottles at the same time I was crew a colleague was attacked by a drunken pax after landing downroute and the bottle smashed over her head. Glass bottles should not be on sale . Also the majority of spirit brands on board aircraft are plastic bottles (or used to be) and if glass bottles were not allowed on board I am sure the companies would start retailing with plastic .

[radeng]

LGW security last Monday.

Man in green: 'You can't have that' (150mL bottle of Furosemide)

Me: 'Yes, I can it's medicine, the DfT say I can'.

Man in green: 'But it's more than 100 millitres'

Me: 'yes I'm allowed it, because it's medicine, but not a 150mL of water'

Mig: 'Where's the prescription label' (obviously thinking he's got me)

Me (admittedly somewhat triumphantly): 'On the bottle itself, not the box it comes in'

So I went through, complete with Furosemide..

Coming back from Venice, woman goes of with bottle to talk to her boss before allowing it through. I have wondered if they could be persuaded to take about 15ml: they'd be running to the loo for hours. (It's a diuretic!)

But it seems strange that they aren't au fait enough with their own rules to recognise that a bottle that's obviously medicine is allowed.

[2infinity]

Enjoyed a domestic flight in New Zealand (Auckland to Nelson) last November.

Turned up 20 mins before departure to check in hold baggage.

Then straight to gate; no metal detector, no x-ray, no explosives check, no shoe check, no ID check, no questions, nada.

Just time to buy a newspaper before we boarded!

Before I get flamed please note I am not advocating such lax security here, on continental Europe, the USA or elsewhere. On the contrary, it would be folly not to have strict, multi-layered security at such airports because of the alleged level of threat that exists.

But it sure did make a pleasant change from LHR T1 on a Friday evening! :{

2infinity

[Ten West]

Or you could just do what I do and turn up with no hand luggage whatsoever. Put it all in your hold luggage. Not rocket science is it?

I just take wallet, keys, phone which incorporates MP3 player and passport.

'But what if your bag is lost?' people say.
So what? I've got my wallet and cards. I'm sure I can run to a toothbrush and a few pairs of pants at my destination while it's sorted out.

I've never had a single problem with airport security. I sympathize with them entirely given that I spent 5 years in retail. People, in the main, are Alpha Hotels.
They think that because you're an employee and acting on behalf of a company that they can dish out whatever personal abuse they like and you have to just stand there and take it. I've had punters invite me outside for a fight before now. And not big guys either, just little herberts who fancy a pop at a big bloke (I'm 6ft4) knowing that I can't batter them like I would if they tried it on in the street.

Security Guys and Girls: You have my sympathy! :ok:

[derekl]

This is by Bruce Schneier, the security and cryptography expert.

Defeating the Shoe Scanning Machine at Heathrow Airport

For a while now, Terminal 3 at Heathrow Airport has had a unique setup for scanning shoes. Instead of taking your shoes off during the normal screening process, as you do in U.S. airports, you go through the metal detector with your shoes on. Then, later, there is a special shoe scanning X-ray machine. You take your shoes off, send them through the machine, and put them on at the other end.

It's definitely faster, but it's an easy system to defeat. The vulnerability is that no one verifies that the shoes you walked through the metal detector with are the same shoes you put on the scanning machine.

Here's how the attack works. Assume that you have two pairs of shoes: a clean pair that passes all levels of screening, and a dangerous pair that doesn't. (Ignore for a moment the ridiculousness of screening shoes in the first place, and assume that an X-ray machine can detect the dangerous pair.) Put the dangerous shoes on your feet and the clean shoes in your carry-on bag. Walk through the metal detector. Then, at the shoe X-ray machine, take the dangerous shoes off and put them in your bag, and take the clean shoes out of your bag and place them on the X-ray machine. You've now managed to get through security without having your shoes screened.

This works because the two security systems are decoupled. And the shoe screening machine is so crowded and chaotic, and so poorly manned, that no one notices the switch.

U.S. airports force people to put their shoes through the X-ray machine and walk through the metal detector shoeless, ensuring that all shoes get screened. That might be slower, but it works.

[radeng]

Ten West,

What about prescription medicines? Put them in your checked baggage and you are in DEEP dodo if that gets lost. Especially if it's something like insulin, which you need shortly after arival at destination. Just imagine the situation - it's 11pm on a Sunday night, and you've arrived at this small country town and your bags haven't, and you've no insulin. Or if you are on steroids - you mustn't stop taking steroids, you have to wind down slowly. Just to get a prescription in the US for diabetic drugs when I had the packages to show the doctor took hours....

[IB4138]

Posted by radeng

Mig: 'Where's the prescription label'

Have encountered this problem before.

It is poor training by management or the MIG trying to be clever.:rolleyes:

Not every country has the archaic practice (and waste of money) of relabeling prescription drugs, when the instructions are already in the original packaging or putting the person's name on them, as the UK does.

....and because you are traveling on a British passport, doesn't make you a UK resident or have to have a UK address. :ugh:

[Ten West]

Very true. But as has already been discussed, prescription medicines should present no problem. If they query it, ask to speak to a senior guy or a supervisor. Or just decant it into a 50 or100ml container instead and put the rest in the hold? Do you actually need to take all 150ml through departures with you?

My approach of no hand luggage doesn't work in every situation and for every person, but I was just relating my own experience of using this method of getting through security quickly and easily.

[IB4138]

prescription medicines should present no problem.

Unfortunately Ten West,they do....and not just liquid medicines. In the past I have had packets of manufacturer labeled blister packed pills queried....which is none of the MIG's business, unless they feel they are an undercover drug enforcement officer.:rolleyes:

There are also many liquid medicines that require shaking ie: remixing in the original bottle: before being taken, where decanting into a bottle suitable for that medicine and purpose is not an option.

[Ten West]

In the past I have had packets of manufacturer labeled blister packed pills queried....which is none of the MIG's businessPlaying 'Devil's Avocado' for a minute, but surely the MIG wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't query it?
The problem would only arise if he didn't believe you, in which case it should be possible to speak to a supervisor who could always contact the airport medics for clarification?

It's a shame it's had to come to this sorry state of affairs though. I'm fortunate in that I've never had to go through security carrying medicines. Anyone have any suggestions as to how life could be made easier for our medicated colleagues here? Letter from GP perhaps?

[IB4138]

Ten West

Unfortunately, you are getting into the same bed as the MIG's and allowing them a "license" to go too far, which is why there is a problem with peoples' attitude to security staff in the UK...too many "little Hitlers", trying to be clever and smart, but not vigilant. They should do their job correctly and nothing more, so as to speed you on your way, not delay.

Since when have factory sealed and labeled medicines been taboo?

Letter from GP perhaps?

For one, if you could get a letter, it would probably not be in English; and two, try to persuade a foreign doctor to give you such a document.

You need to think global and multi lingual.

Not everything runs or works as it does in the UK....or are all documents in English....nor is everything recorded on paper!

[Ten West]

Surely it wouldn't be beyond the resources of the NHS to have a pre-printed form which they could give out at the same time as the prescriptions, signed and stamped by the surgery and stating that the person detailed on the form has been prescribed whatever it is? Could even have the passport number on it for added security. Just a thought.

[IB4138]

Ten West

You are being UK specific again. :ugh:

Please think GLOBAL and all that means .

[radeng]

I've had no problem getting a letter from the GP regarding carrying the necessaries for injection, but never needed it. (As an aside, how can people inject themselves for FUN?) Interestingly, the security people NEVER query the insulin injection needles, only the bottle with medicine. I don't know what they would do if you had bottles of insulin of say 50ml and you had three or four of them......

As was said, training is somewhat deficient. Bad training is one result of bad management, of course. It is also often an attempt to cut corners financially at the expense of the PBI (staff on the ground!)

At least Gatwick appear to attempt to get enough gates open to minimise queues. I have a friend who works in immigration there, and she complains about the attitude of the MIG to workers. Not, I would have thought, a good idea if you are likely to go abroad for a holiday.........immigration and then customs could have quite a time getting their own back!

On a slightly different tack, the uniforms for immigration not only are cheap, they look cheap and nasty. Another labour government c*** up! The staff don't like them either.

[Ten West]

Ten West

You are being UK specific again. :ugh:

Please think GLOBAL and all that means .

;) Fair enough. I'll shut up now! As you were gentlemen...

[Pax Vobiscum]

the uniforms for immigration not only are cheap, they look cheap and nasty.

'Twas ever thus, radeng:

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, and they're starvation cheap

"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling (1892)

Not that I'd want to compare the MIG to the thin red line ...

[radeng]

Imigration uniforms are blue, and polyester. Apparently, some staff have suffered allergic reactions, and then they have to have a special uniform made.....The standard ones probably won't last, either. Now a good bit of west country serge and a cotton top.......

[qwertyplop]

Not, I would have thought, a good idea if you are likely to go abroad for a holiday.........immigration and then customs could have quite a time getting their own back!

.

What an amusing thought.

'Why have you got more than 100 ml's of that up your bottom Sir'?

:D

:ok:

[Jakarta Jock]

Having read all the posts about the dangers from the glass in a bottle of alcohol am I being dense or would it not be better for duty free purchases to be bought upon arrival thereby removing the danger of the glass but also the danger from litre upon litre of inflammable spirit being carried on aircraft

[10secondsurvey]

Jakarta Jock

Not sure of whether your suggestion is possible, but it will never happen simply because it is far, far, far too sensible.

Bear in mind that airport management live in the land of the stupid, thinking only stupidity, and what new stupid ideas they can inflict on pax.

[Woofrey]

Not having a good day are you 10 ?

I think you'll find that the majority of people, having arrived at their destination airport, just want to get their bags and go. That's possibly why arrivals areas usually have just a coffee shop and newsagents for the meeters and greeters ?

It makes sense to have the shopping on departure because there will always be "dwell time" as up to 300 or more pax have to be processed one way or the other ( check in, security etc ) before the HA do all their checks prior to boarding.

Having been delayed for 5 hours in Lisbon with plenty of shops, and 4 hours in Monastir with b*gg*r all shops, I know which experience was preferable.