Bjets

[sexygirl]

Has anyone here got any information on BJets? Seems to be a company in Asia...

[AS CAR O 50-207-306]

Briley group, middle east.
Probably from dubai.
just born... waiting for news... :suspect:

[Flintstone]

What he said ^^^^^^ I was told they want 64 aircraft in three years. CJ2, Hawker 850XP, Hawker 1000 and G550. Bases in Singapore and Hyderabad (India).

First few pilots have done their type rating, others going through now. PM me if you want to know more.

[south coast]

I think Flintstone is taken in by the first posters name!

[Flintstone]

Not again. Not after the last time :}

The internet's a confusing place :confused:

[Nearly There]

In for a penny...in for a pound...:eek:

[Flintstone]

Pounds. That was the problem. Too many of them :E

[Nearly There]

We have all done it, still good practice..secret is dont get caught..:E

[artip]

"Pounds. That was the problem. Too many of them :E "

Pints you mean!:E

Cheers,
A

[spaniel]

Like Flintstone I too was a little confused. I thought the thread from Sexygirl was asking about info on BJs in Asia!! ooops

[south coast]

Regarding BJ's in Asia, be carfeul as it glides in that it doesnt clip your dollar fifty crack whoe's Adam's apple!

[flyingluc]

Hi,
Did any one ever passed the interview and sim check organised at GECAT LGA ?

Thanks

[Vref plus 10]

Hello Paul, Thanks for your response. Who can I address my CV to? Your email [EMAIL="xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"[/EMAIL] will be fine? Any chance of an address? The Company is called BJets?? Thanks again.

A

Email address removed. The word dweeb springs to mind. No offence, merely an observation. 4HP

[TheOtherSide]

Oh dear! Someone missed the point of secret usernames!

[Flintstone]

Doh!!!

It's ok, no harm done. My persona here is hardly a secret anyway.

Well, this one:E

[RAFAT]

Unbelievable! :=

[BizJetJockey]

Hey guys and gals,

Anyone been offered a job with BJets? If so, what are your thoughts on moving to a new and very different country for 6 months of the year and everything that comes with being an expat pilot such as family life etc etc.

Any feedback would be great.

Eager for the air every day!:ok:

[woodcoc2000]

not been offered job yet. must say i look forward to living in a very different place for a while. as for partners/family remember you spend one month out of two at home; thats a lot of time at home looking for something to do. come to think of it, the missus will be sick of me and glad to see me go again.

cant wait to hear from them..

[mobie]

Any updates on BJETS, up and running? I have sent my CV via a contact there and have heard very little as to progress.

Mobie

[doubleu-anker]

Hi all

Anyone know what other equipment this company operates apart from, CJ2, Hawkers and G550?

What bases in Asia are they basing crews?

Thanks in advance.

Regards

DA

[Twin2040]

Hi - What about Wynnwith - they are looking for business jets drivers, India based - are they the ones to talk to ?
Regards. Twin2040.

[blablablafly]

PARC is looking for their COO :8

[BizJetJockey]

Anyone got a job with BJets? PM me.:ok:

[Flintstone]

Twin 2040, you have mail.

doubleu-anker. You're almost there. CJ2's and Hawker 850XP's for now. Hawker 1000's and G550's later. Sixty-four aircraft in three years is the target.

If you'd like to know more feel free to PM. I'd hate to fall foul of the moderator for advertising :E

[Pretzel]

Hello Flintstone!

[Sky Hooker]

Have an interview coming up with them shortly.Any tips about the interview process would be greatly appreciated.

Terms and conditons finalized yet?


looks like a big player in the Asia region.

Looking forward to your reply. Many thanks:ok:

[Viliamu]

I concur with SH; any information that's out there is always welcome! Thanks in advance, all,

V

[doubleu-anker]

T's & C's? That's what we are all trying to find out!

Transparency is always the best route.

[Flintstone]

If you'd like to know more feel free to PM. I'd hate to fall foul of the moderator for advertising

C'mon guys. Give me a break and use your loaf. No free advertising on PPRuNe. You know that, I know that. I don't want to get booted for breaking the rule.

Anyway, some of you have already contacted me and been told the T&C's so to say you don't know is a bit cheeky. Feel free to post them here, there's no rule against that.

[woodcoc2000]

has anyone who went to assessments beginning december heard anything recently? have heard that a TR course has completed so maybe time to organize some more?? hoping..

[airmiles]

Yes I too did my assessment in early december, and was wondering whether anyone from then had heard anthing? I too like woodcoc2000 keep hoping.. Can anyone shed some light for us?

[Twin2040]

1. Two rosters. 35 on and 31 off and airline in and out on business class. Hotels paid on duty, $100 per diem, BUPA and a pension. Type rating will be paid and a two year bonding.

2. Based in Singapore or Hyderabad and work 6 5-6 4. Housing, per diem, hotels when on tour, BUPA and pension.

So first one looks a bit like NetJets Mid east.

Salary is around 100000 US for LH and 50 US something for RH - so not really great if you are European.

I also find it funny, that they do not advertise anywhere for pilots and their one page web is not to great either.

I do NOT have any further info. Cheers.

[Crosswind Limits]

They did advertise in Flight just before Christmas.

[BIZJOCKEY]

The reason that you can't find out that much about them on the net and that their website is not up yet is obvious. Bjets and their investors want to make all announcements about the company and the people they are tied up with, at their launch. Which, I believe will be at the Singapore Air Show. What's the point of a launch if everybody knows everything already?

Additionally, you might not be aware that Indian operators have to have at least one Indian pilot on board, so they are probably concerntrating alot of resources trying to recruit locally, at least for RH. :ok:

[Flintstone]

Tax situation is being examined by the parent company's HR dept and lawyers in an effort to get the best deal without dropping crew into a NJE-type tax disaster.

BIZJOCKEY hit the nail on the head. The company will not be officially announced until the Singapore air show. In the meantime it's not what you know but who you know ;)

[BizJetJockey]

Pretty much describes corporate aviation in a nutshell!:}

[Ricardo82]

Surely the pilot shortage is a good thing for job seeking pilots?

Won't comment on ATC as I haven't experienced it yet!

[Viliamu]

...that I know Flintstone!!

:ok:

[BizJetJockey]

So am I!:}:E:ok:

[joehunt]

Got a mate flying in India.

Tax is deducted at source and in spite of what the Gov website specifies, when applying for a work visa in the country of passport origin/residence, they want a copy of your contract to see what your deal is.

Loop hole? You decide.

[spacecadet]

Thank you Flintstone!

[Lightning Bandicoot]

I did meet the CEO of Briley Group on one of my flights in the subcontinent. Big talker nothing seems to be happening though. Having met the chap it is only good to caution prospectors to take all their claims with a pinch of salt!! Good luck.
Will keep the thread posted as the chap promised to call me with more info on the BJets venture.

[BizJetJockey]

Lightning...according to a number of sources, a few people have already done their type ratings...all paid for! If it's an enigma, i'd love to know where these guys are going. Apparently announcements are to be made at the Singapore Air show when BJets is officially launched.

I think a certain person should pull Lightning out of the dark.:sad:

[chiplight2005]

Bizjetjockey & Viliamu, when you say you are glad you know Flintstone..

Is that you know him personally, and that is why you got the job easier..

Or you met him through PPrune and then got the job like that..?

Just interested to know when you guys say, "I'm glad I know Flintstone."

Cheers:ok:

[Flintstone]

Big talker nothing seems to be happening though.
(My bold)

That's the thing. Unless you know what's happening it's easy to make assumptions.

A little bird tells me that as Bizjetjockey said the first pilots have completed their type ratings at company expense. Some are awaiting base checks and assignment for hour building, others are in country, there are more on TR courses at the moment and today, tomorrow and Wednesday sees interviews and sim rides for applicants in the UK.

So not much happening then.;)





Edited for I am rubbish at t'internet.

[BizJetJockey]

Chip, aren't you being rather presumptuous? It is well known that if you know someone in any industry, it makes life a little easier. But in this game you still need to jump through the hoops in order to satisfy everyone.

If you are curious...PM Mr Fred Flintstone. By the looks of this thread, he doesn't seem to mind!:ok:

(Is that okay Flintstone?):O

[chiplight2005]

The only reason I ask is because a buddy of mine did the sim assessment. He didn't get the call and was a bit surprised. He was told he did well in the sim. He also got in touch with Flintstone through PPrune, so hence I asked your relationship of knowing him perhaps personally. ;)

[Viliamu]

Chiplight,

I only know Flintstone through the wonders of pprune, but I'm glad that I do. Before I expand that thought, it's relevant to know that not only have I NOT been hired by Bjets, but I haven't so much as received a phone call from them. In fact, at this point, I'd say my efforts to join the organization aren't meeting with much success.

Nonetheless, I'm happy I know Flintstone because he's been a consistent advocate on my behalf and a regular source of what information he has to share. I fully recognize that it's always risky to form personal conclusions based solely upon an internet relationship (so save the cautionary notes that are sure to follow anyway), but my personal experience (and an expansive perusal of all Flintstone's postings) show him to be a friendly, generous, and quite witty person who doesn't mind helping others. Whether or not Bjets pans out, he's good people...

No, I'm not a@@-kissing in hopes of raising my hiring chances, and no, Flintstone and I have no plans to stroll hand-in-hand down the banks of the Avon on a sunny Saturday afternoon. Merely sharing my observations and personal conclusions!

Hope that helps. :}

[chiplight2005]

Viliamu,

I am sorry I didn't mean for you to get upset. I was just interested why certain people get the call and others do not. That was all I was wanting to know. I was under the impression from your post that you got a call.

I do not know Flintstone, but he does seem to be a nice fellow with a sense of humour from the posts that I read from him. :ok:

[Viliamu]

Hi Chip,

Not upset at all; merely answering your query. :confused:

Are you pursuing BJets? If you do, and if you learn anything, all I ask is that you keep us posted!!

:)

Cheers,

Viliamu

[chiplight2005]

Will do Viliamu! ;)

Just out of interest, may I ask when you did your sim assessment with BJETS?

Cheers. :ok:

[Viliamu]

Chip,

As I mentioned above, I haven't even heard directly from BJets, so I've not completed an interview OR a sim assessment. If that changes, I'll let you know.

That's really the reason for my previous statement that I'm not making any perceptible headway.

Best of luck to you,

Viliamu

[Flintstone]

Shucks guys, thanks :\









PS. Don't clap, throw money!!! ;)

[Nearly There]

throw money

How much? in a discreet brown envelope under the desk? will that help?:p

[Flintstone]

None of that Italian Lira stuff you gave me last time either.

[Nearly There]

ok...10000KRW South Korean Won this time:E

[BizJetJockey]

Anyone in any doubt about BJets, do a google search. They officially launched themselves today at the Singapore Air Show and announced orders for 40 aircraft totaling approximately $600 million. :ok:;)

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/index.php?option=com_pressreleases&view=detail&pr_id=12628&Itemid=77&ln=en

[BizJetJockey]

Any job offers yet anyone?

[hard_landing]

A friend of mine has been given a start date in June. He's been told it could be brought forward if any of the people in front of him for the type rating course drop out.

[Flintstone]

what sort of experience level is competitive.

2000 hours TT or 100 hours on type for captains (the latter with a reasonable TT of course). 1000TT or 500 multi-engine or 100 on type for FO's. These numbers have been imposed by the Indian authorities (DGCA) for ex-pats. If you're a local then a licence and a pulse suffice (according to the DGCA :rolleyes:).

Pilots who were already type rated are in India/Singapore and flying. Those who were not have completed or are on their TR courses and about to start accruing their 100 hours on type with a UK operator at the beginning of March before shipping out.

[Flintstone]

Captains US$90,000 plus about $18,000pa in per diems. BUPA, pension, housing allowance if based in country or hotels when on duty. Live in Hyderabad or Singapore and work 6/5-6/4 or be based at home and work 35/31.

FO's basic $55,000 plus the above.

[Gentleman Aviator]

Hello Flintstone,

Are you sure on the salaries?
They are really, really poor.

$90k is €61k at today's exchange rate.

NetJets Europe Basic is €95k.

That's over 50% more money and the pilot doesn't have to emigrate or spend a month away from family.

Am I missing something?

This just looks like a really bad deal for all but the most desperate.


GA

[Flintstone]

Am I sure?

Checks socks

Checks pockets

Looks under table

Yeah, I think so. :rolleyes: Of course if you want to bring the money back to Europe the exchange rate isn't kind. If you're US, Australia or elsewhere it's the going rate.

I believe the income tax rate in Singapore is 3% too.

Freelance on month off is allowed.

Low hour requirements mean that someone looking for their first jet job can apply to BJets with less time than Netjets Europe and they hire direct entry captains.

Horses for courses. I'd rather be in Singapore in a non-apu aircraft than northern Europe.

[9M_JON]

Caught a special on CNBC about the Singapore Air Show. Looks like the TATA group of India is main backers and they just ordered 20 CJ2s. Regionally the pay looks good. However I think the income tax is around 18% in Singapore. Like I say regionally the pay seems good but living in Singapore is expensive. RH seat pay with family will be harder.
Nevertheless this would be good opening for pilots in the region not intending to go main.

[Flintstone]

I'm told 3% is the going rate if you are a separate entity ie, 'Flintstone Aviation'. As always I'd buy professional advice on this.

The UK tax man and I were on familiar terms a few years ago because of something my (then) employer did. Learned that lesson well.

[9M_JON]

More exact figures can be found here
http://www.mof.gov.sg/taxation/indiv_income_tax_rates.html
Looks like first 80k is at 14%. Very good if compared to the west but then again it's tax fee at the sand pit.

[weido_salt]

We were not informed whether the salary was gross or net, which is wrong. Some clarification should be fore coming if they are a company of integrity.

Any Indian based pilots should be aware that you will be liable to 34% tax. If you are working out of India. Commuting or living there you are liable for the full, flat rate of tax. Don't be taken in with the old chestnut of being paid from outside India to outside India, you are exempt. If the company says they will pay your tax, get the receipts.

Remove those rose tinted glasses and be sure not to be taken in.

[mobie]

A quick google on India tax also shows per diem and rent(including hotel cost) is taxed at the going rate.

[Pilot Positive]

Weido Salt

You appear to be correct. However let me share an additional perspective with you. :cool:

For the Singaporean/Indian govt to tax you you have to be a registered employee in that country :}. It appears that BJETS offer a generous 35/31 roster which gives a fair degree of flexibility. ;)

You will also note that they are paying salaries in US$ and that being paid from a third country into an offshore account is almost impossible to track and currently no reciprocal agreements to tax at source exist (Nightmare on Logistics St) :ok: One half of the JV is also the Singaporean based Briley group and BJETS will want to reduce the social cost when it comes to new employees. ;)

Not sure whether the DGCA requires local license issue or whether you can fly on your JAR/ICAO ATPL alone. Anyone care to clarify that if its not already been done?? :8

Even so, with average middle manager salaries being approx $250pcm :eek: and the govt heavily subsidising fuel :eek: :eek: then the cost of living in India is minute. If you are taxed :{ then your relative disposal income will still be huge compared to that of the locals and you can live like a king (or queen depending on your sex and taste). :O

If you get offered a job by BJETS sit down with them and clarify exactly how you will be paid. Given that it’s a start up there may be some flexibility so just be sure of what you want and how you want to get it.

[weido_salt]

Let me try and answer some of your questions.

Before a non Indian can crew an a/c within India, they will need to be security checked. This can take anything up to 3 months, some never get it.

In the meantime the DGCA will interview the candidate. If successful a 3 month validation will be issued, provided you are security cleared. Within the 3 months a law examination will have to be sat and passed. The CAR's are on the DGCA website. Oh, almost forgot, a work permit is needed. This is issued at the Indian embassy of residence. Among the documents the issuing officer needs to see is a copy of the employment contract. He/she will send this copy to the tax authorities in India. Check into a hotel in India as crew, the first thing they do is photocopy your passport and your work visa. The beuacracy is something to behold.

The authorities have clamped down in the recent past, so I cant see anyone avoiding Tax in India unless the employer pays it. Like all tax, the employee will be held responsible for tax not paid. Not trying to scare monger just trying to give a heads up, to the uninitiated, as I don't want to see follow aviators "get hurt".

[Anonymus6]

hi there,

could someone please pm me a contact e-mail so I can fire up a C.V.
I don't mind working in that part of the world.

Thanks

[Pilot Positive]

Thanks Weido Salt for bringing some additional detail to the conversation - its useful. :ok:


Anyone care to confirm or add to these comments?

[GB118]

Anyone out there been through the selection for Bjets?

If so, what kind of timescale are you looking at for notification of passing/failing?

If passed how long before they make you an offer?

Any ideas?

[GB118]

cool thanks for that!

[smackid]

I have been given a start date of 4 weeks, for the CJ 2, but the flights arent booked yet, so you never know!! I have 200 hours on type, and the current type rating! The minimum qualifications are 100 hours on type for FO. I'm not sure about captain. As far as I know, it's a 2 year bond if you don't have a type rating, and 1 year if you need a recurrent? Don't quote me on that though, that's just what I heard!

[smackid]

I did my intervew over the phone in Novemeber, and I was told about a week later! However, I was told that I'd be ferrying the plane there in January, and it just got there a week ago! I won't be going for another four weeks because they plane is getting certified for RVSM

[Shaman]

Well, since they are not getting G550s for some years, is there anyone else in SIN who does operate the larger Gulfstreams?

[deskjockey101]

There have been some comments with regard to some of the similarities of BJETS to NetJets! it shouldn't be a surprise as the CEO of BJETS is the ex Sales Director for NJ in London, so it shouldn't be a surprise to see some significant similarities across the board. Hope this helps...

[Twin2040]

Anybody got more and fresh news about Bjets.

[Pilot Positive]

All quiet on the western front or should I say the calm before the storm?

Has anybody got any ideas about the deal Bjets is cutting with Hangar8?
Seems they might be training Indian pilots and shipping them out with a few 100 hours at the expense of UK FOs?

Don't get too comfy. :rolleyes:

[Flintstone]

Has anybody got any ideas about the deal Bjets is cutting with Hangar8? Seems they might be training Indian pilots and shipping them out with a few 100 hours at the expense of UK FOs?

Don't get too comfy.


Well let's see. To fly for Hangar 8 they'd have to have JAA licences plus the right to live and work here.

Which would kind of make their ethnic origin irrelevant.

So........ask yourself. Is it likely or just another rumour that doesn't hold water?:rolleyes:

Now. If you're talking about JAA licenced european pilots going through Hangar 8 and other UK operators to gain experience there could be some truth to the story. Those european pilots will then be flying for BJets (it might be argued) at the expense of Indian pilots.

Welcome to the international world of aviation :hmm:

[Pilot Positive]

Thanks Flintstone. :) And apologies - perhaps I could have articulated my sentence better and have said "other pilots" rather than "Indian pilots". The point was that Bjet pilots, regardless of their origin, could be displacing UK pilots in jobs (albeit in the short term?)

Given their apparant immediate need for pilots it would be a fair assumption to say that if they did want to get pilots type rated in the UK and meet DGCA requirements they would need to look at initially placing them with UK operators. But who?

What happened with the EBJ deal? Not enough capacity? Not enough hours in a specified timeframe? Or is the EBJ deal working alongside possible deals with other UK operators e.g. H8? If so, who else is on the list? :ooh:

Perhaps you are in a better position than me to advise of the specific details of any deal - it would make commercial sense if Bjets are paying these operators to take these pilots on or at the min. the operators get these pilots for free. But who will they be replacing?

[Flintstone]

I'm not about to expose the 'who's paying whom' details. Suffice to say it'll cost each company something so no 'free pilots'. It's arguable as to whether or not they'll displace anyone. As I understand it these operators simply can't find experienced crew anyway.

The way I see it, those pilots being type rated by BJets avoid the trap of paying for their type rating, make useful contacts for the future (should they decide they want to come home after their bond is up) and for the low-timers get eased into jet flying without the shock of doing so in unfamiliar* Indian airspace.

Similar deals are being done with several companies. If BJets live up to their recruitment promises I'd say they'll all be needed.





*I struggled to come up with a polite word for what they might encounter down there. 'Unfamiliar' was my eighth word of choice.:E

[Pilot Positive]

It does sound like a great opportunity for low timers to get a type rating, experience both UK and Indian airspace and broaden their horizons generally. God forbid if their mothers were to find out .... :}

[Flintstone]

I think most of them told their mums they play the piano in a whorehouse to avoid the shame of bing known as a bizjet pilot.

[OneWorld22]

Hi guys, anyone know who the Director of Flight Ops is or the COO??

[Flintstone]

COO is the same person as the CEO for now.

Ops director pending appointment of a suitable bod.

[leocadio]

hi any one have heard from bjets lately i did two telephone interview with them and i still waiting for a third one. any one have the email for ops guys?

[weido_salt]

flyinglobsters

Doesn't that tell you about what you are trying to get yourself into? That would speak volumes for me.

[CPAM00]

Well, I did my interview and sim assessment in December, and still haven't received my travel costs back. I have written 3 times and have heard nothing. They have my bank account details and still nothing back!! I also got told I was highly recommended for teh job, and never heard anything from them - nothing! So I think it depends, some people get their money back and get a response, but the majority of us don't!

[Flintstone]

CPAM

As you know I have something of an interest in the interviews. While it's true that some people's expenses have not yet been refunded I was not aware that this applied to "the majority".

If you can tell me who all these people are I'll gladly chase things up on their behalf.

[flyingspark]

Hi Flintstone.
I have also had some difficulty in claiming expenses from my reported successful interview in Feb, despite having sent the appropiate forms, bank details etc. Any help or advice would be very welcome...

[Flintstone]

I'm really disappointed to hear this. As some of you know I'm not a BJets employee but I do have some contacts there in connection with recruitment.

Their reimbursement system seems slow but then again, how many other companies pay you to attend an interview? Not all of them. That said I will gladly approach the company on behalf of those still waiting if they PM me with their real name, amount claimed and date of claim submission.

I repeat, I'm NOT a BJETS employee but am happy to try and help.

[smackid]

I feel your frustrations everyone!! I had my interview in November.....was told to give notice in February, for a start date April 15th, and now there are "complications" and no answers about what they are??? They assure me that they still want me but no one will answer any calls or e-mails!! So I'm without a job, waiting.....I think it may be time to ask for my old job back!?

[weido_salt]

Oh dear, that is bad.

Never sack your present boss until you have a letter or email of intent.

Unfortunately, the days of a deal of any description, being sealed with a handshake, kiss (of death) or a hug, are long gone.

[Treetopflyer]

To those who claimed their interview expenses: who did you claim them from? BJets HR? Any contact appreciated.

smackid

Had you signed a proper contract with BJets?

[smackid]

No, I wish.....I'm the only employee where I was, and he didn't hire anyone, else, so I don't forsee any problems, however, I was really looking forward to this opportunity!! I wish I knew what the problem was...I believe it is with the DGCA because I was hired as an FO, and from what I read, the DGCA won't let employers hire ex-pats past June 08.....I'm assuming that's the problem! (wouldn't make sense to take me on for a couple of months! I wish I had read about that before all this.....this is just speculation of course, because I haven't been told what the hold up is exactly!

Good luck everyone!

[Spam Up]

Hi

Im sure that I have read in another thread in the Asian forum that this Expat F/O ban will only apply to airlines !

Good luck

Spam Up

[Flintstone]

smackid.

I suspect you're right. I spoke to someone down there today who told me they are unsure if this expat ban will apply to airlines only or across the board.

Can't argue with your disappointment at not hearing anything though.

[Spam Up]

Oh bugger !

So it could apply to the biz jets also ?

Spam Up

[Pretzel]

from what i heard Bjets only pay people that were sucessful in their interview and actually get an offer letter form the company ?!

[smackid]

Hmmmm, that would be nice if it was airlines only....Maybe there is still hope!! I'm preparing myself for the worst though!! The chief pilot was supposed to be in Delhi last week trying to work out the DGCA details and I was supposed to hear last week....however, my liason is now out of town till Thursday....hopefully I'll hear something then and I'll update you all when I hear! If I'm expecting a response on Thursday though....it will probably be more like next week! LOL (I'm trying to keep a positive attitude:)

[Flintstone]

from what i heard Bjets only pay people that were sucessful in their interview and actually get an offer letter form the company ?!


Never let the facts get in the way of a good rumour, eh? ;)

[weido_salt]

smackid

The airlines are still advertising for F/O's. Have a look here. (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/first-officers-india-flight-crew-india-10469476.htm)

[smackid]

Thanks, that's interesting.....you wouldn't think they'd waste their time if they couldn't hire the ex-pats.....well, it'll be interesting to find out what the problem ended up being!! I don't like being in the dark, so started to search out what the problems "could" be, and that's all I came up with?? Looks like I'll just have to wait and see! .....or maybe apply for some of these other jobs....too bad I only have time on the CJ!

[doubleu-anker]

In defence of Bjets, things do happen slow in India so you need a lot of patience.

However, good communications are essential on the ground, as in the air.

[chaitanya]

Hello all,
I m Chaitanya, an Indian Commercial Pilot trained in Canada.I reside in Hyderabad where Bjets office s located.Last week I had visit to their office.The response of their staff was really good and their business partner s TATA(Company who recently bought Ford Jaguar).Things are pretty good within the company.But the main issue s DGCA.They have problems not only in hiring but everything.Have a look at this article:
AsiaViews, Edition: 10/V/April/2008
India:
Tata-BJETS air services plan strikes FIPB block

New Delhi, April 2: It is a setback for the Singapore-based aviation services company — BJets — which proposed to foray into India with non-scheduled chartered airline services. Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB) has set aside the BJETS proposal to set up the largest corporate jet company in the country, an official said.

"There is a problem relating to equity restructuring in the Indian subsidiary of BJETS that needs clarification," a senior official said.

BJETS had floated an Indian subsidiary in which Tatas had picked up 37 per cent to foray into providing non-scheduled aviation services. Parent company, BJETS based in Singapore is part of the privately held investment group, Briley. Briley has holdings in aviation, hospitality, business process outsourcing and other related businesses.

But, the FIPB application had mentioned that BJETS India was a wholly owned subsidiary of BJETS Singapore since the company was in the process of clinching the deal with Tatas.

BJETS India, will have to re-submit the proposal to FIPB maintaining that the foreign equity was only to the tune of 63 per cent as against a threshold of 74 per cent.

When contacted, a Tata spokesman said, "The board has sought certain clarifications on the proposal". A senior Tata Sons executive, however, said, "The company would get back to the board clarifying the equity sharing structure in next few days."

A query sent to the BJETS India spokesperson, Mr Jaideep Sippy, did not elicit a response.

The company had aimed at catering to high net-worth individuals (HNIs) and corporates that are jet-setting to clinch major deals across the globe, acquire companies or undertake mergers and acquisitions to expand Indian footprint internationally.

BJets India, the subsidiary of BJets in Singapore, had planned to order 50 jets to be stationed in the South, Southeastern region.

The company had proposed an investment worth $600 million to begin with, in the non-scheduled chartered airline services.

The company had proposed to use the Seletor airport in Singapore as the main base while having yet another base in Mumbai to locate its flights operations centre in Hyderabad.

In September last year, before the deal with Tatas was clinched, BJETS global head of operations, Mr Mark Baier, had said, "We are in the research stage right now and hope to arrive at a conclusion by early next year".

The latest FIPB decision may delay the BJETS foray into India pending final clearance by the government.
By K.A.Badarinath Mayur Shekhar Jha
The Asian Age, 03 April 2008


So it not Bjets but DGCA who s the main culprit.And I will give you small example you know for guy to convert Foreign license to Indian the quickest time s 6 months.

[Pilot Positive]

Hello Chaitanya,

Nice to hear from somebody on the ground in India. :)

Was there any indication to what this equity "clarification" means in terms of operational delay?



Pilot Positive

[chaitanya]

Hello Positive Pilot
I don't know what that equity clarification s(no assumptions)...

[chaitanya]

Hope this article might add some information regarding India's Expats hiring policy

Indian Government tells airlines not to hire foreign co-pilots

NEW DELHI: The government has asked domestic carriers not to hire foreign co-pilots as there is already a glut of Indian co-pilots, with airlines getting anywhere between 20 to 40 applications for each position.

In a meeting with airlines, the aviation ministry said it could understand that India still has a shortage of trained commanders/captains and airlines may have to hire expats. But as far as co-pilots go, airlines need to select desi ones.

At present, India has 944 foreign pilots - 810 commanders and 134 co-pilots. Airlines like Indigo, Alliance Air, Jet, Air India and Blue Dart have the maximum number of expat co-pilots. Others like SpiceJet and JetLite don’t have any foreign co-pilot, while Kingfisher and GoAir have one each.

An airline official said: ‘‘Sometimes we have to hire foreign co-pilots as they have type rating for flying a plane like the A 320 or Boeing 737. In that case, they can start flying the moment they join us.’’

On the other hand, hiring a fresh Indian co-pilot means that airlines have to first get a type rating for the aircraft they will have to operate. This means sending commercial pilot licence holders abroad for training on simulator of planes like an A-320 or Boeing 737, something that takes a few months and costs anywhere up to Rs 7 lakh.

A fresh CPL holder can join an airline as co-pilot and then get type-rating (training to fly a certain aircraft). Once a type-rated pilot flies for between 1,500 and 2,500 hours, he or she becomes a commander/captain. At each level, the salary jumps from - Rs 60,000-80,000; Rs 1-1.5 lakh and Rs 2-2.5 lakh.

Now government is not willing to buy lack of trained pilots excuse of airlines to hire expats. In fact, Monday’s diktat of not disregarding Indian co-pilots is the second move in as many months to protect Indian students who spend anywhere upto Rs 22 lakh - almost everyone takes an education loan for this - to become a pilot.
source: The Times of India

[verderol]

Hi everybody,
Writting to share some info...:
I Did the assesment on the SImulator in Gatwick last February. They were satisfied by my performance so they told me that my profile was good to go on the left seat directly. I 'm still waiting for an answer since then. :ugh:
After some emails without reply I really wonder if they just stepback my application or is just the Indian CIvil aviation's conjuncture??

Anybody in a similar situation??
Cheers and good luck.

[smackid]

Bad news for me!! The problem is what I thought, and they aren't hiring anymore ex-pats for their FO's :( For those of you that don't have enough hours to be captain, I wouldn't bother, or wouldn't be waiting for any responses!

[Spam Up]

Hello

Who told you this ? what exactly did they say ?

Spam

[smackid]

well I have posted a bunch a posts previous to this, if you ready back you'll see more of the story, but I was told to give notice to my employer as I'd be starting on the CJ2 around April 15th, but when there were delays, I started doing some research and asking questions to my liason here in Canada. Turns out the chief pilot was in Delhi at the time, trying to work out something with the DGCA, so he could hire expats as FO's, but they wouldn't budge! That's all I know! They are working on the issue from Canada as well, and I will have a definite answer in 30-40 days, but I'm not holding my breath!! It's too bad because I was SO looking forward to this job!! The schedule I've dreamed of since the beginning:(

I could have been mislead, but there would be no reason to lie, they could have just not hired me!?

[Flintstone]

No smackid, it's not just you.

What you were told is true. The company tried to get the DGCA to agree to a waiver allowing them to use ex-pat FO's but they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame because I met some nice people who were going to kick start their careers through BJets.

The only hope is that the ensuing carnage will bring the Indian government to it's senses. If they insist on companies hiring sausage factory, ink-still-wet-on-the-licence CPL's it's going to be...................interesting.

[smackid]

I agree, I'm glad someone feels the same way!! I really liked the chief pilot, and was looking forward to it. I agree, it would have been a good jumpstart, but I wasn't all take and no give, I do have my type rating! I hope they change their minds:((

[Spam Up]

Hi

It really is unfair that the DGCA has brought this ruling in :ugh:, I just wonder if the UK brought in this ruling what would happen ?

I think it would be great experience for any pilot to go out there for a few years and I think that experience on your CV would put you at the top of any pile on a desk.

What exactly is the experience required for a skipper on the CJ fleet ? it would be something to aim for if you already have the TR.

Good Luck

Spam

[Flintstone]

PIC minimum was 3000 hours but I think they'll look at anyone with relevant experience.

TR not required. They provide that.

[smackid]

I don't have nearly enough, only 200 hours on type:( If they thought that was an option, I'm sure they would have offered?? I'll suggest it though!

[flyingspark]

A great shame that the DGCA have been a little short sighted in making this ruling.
Look at the requirments of other successful Biz jet operaters,when it comes to hiring FO's.Apart from that,looking at another TRTO because candidates are having problems "getting through the Type Rating" speaks volumes.
I am one of the candidates that passed the interview and sim ride and I am genuinely dissapointed for myself and other candidates that things haved not worked out.I was really looking forward to the opportunity!
If anyone still has not claimed their expenses from their interview,I have now been given a name address in Singapore to send my claim ,so if anyone wants to PM me,I'll pass the details on.

Cheers.

[hard_landing]

Has anyone received an email from Bjets? The reason I ask is that a friend of mine got an email telling him to expect a start date in June. He got this in Feb (or possibly the start of March).....just wondered if anyone else had received an email.

I know that there are issues with the DGCA (and he hasn't heard anything for a while) but I am trying to find out how many guys (and gals) have received confirmation of a job offer.

By the way he was offered a F/O position

[smackid]

Hard Landing.....if your friend was hired as an FO, and isn't from India, it looks like the offer no longer stands....I know it sucks, I'm in the same boat, as well as the poster two above this post!!

[hard_landing]

I was just wondering how many people actually got an email from India with a definite job offer. My mate stayed in touch with the people that attended the interview and sim assessment at the same time as him, and although they were told that they had all passed the interview and sim assessment, only my mate and one other actually got an email off someone from Bjets in India.

I guess it doesn't really matter if the offer doesn't stand...just thought I'd ask. I haven't spoke to him for a while but I know he will be hugely disappointed!!

anyway, good luck guys, I hope you all find something soon

HL

[smackid]

I was working with a recruitment company here in Canada, and I got my job offer from Bjets, through them....so not a direct e-mail per se, but a forwarded one....

Good luck to your friend too!! The waiting is painful!

[Pilot Positive]

Fully understand your sentiments flyingspark, what a great opportunity for low hour FOs. I was fired up and ready to go as well... :{

This DGCA ruling, however, may only be a temporary set back. It may be the Indian Govt making a token gesture in attempting to stamp their authority on a massively expanding sector without the input of operators/reality on the ground? And who knows how the political situation will really evolve?

3 months down the line this ruling could be relaxed or, better still, dismissed and we all suddenly get phone calls telling us to get on a CJ TR ASAP!! :}


Pilot Positive :)

[Treetopflyer]

March interview, got a job offer in April for a captain position (actual contract sent directly from BJets HR), supposedly starting in June...

[Twin2040]

Good to hear Tree top - keep us posted ! Are you able to choose your own base - Hydrabad or Singapore ?.

[smackid]

Yeah Tree Top Congrats!! Please let us know how it turns out so we can wollow more!! LOL If it's what they offered me, it's a rotation of India 35, home 31, Singapore 35??

Positive Pilot.....keep the positive thoughts coming please!!

[Treetopflyer]

Yeah, I can only hope I'm luckier than some of you... Sorry to hear what happened there...

Apparently it's 35 on / 31 off for me too, and quite frankly I don't know where I'll be when I'm on (but then I don't really care either)... From how the contract reads, it sounds like NJE, you sleep wherever the aircraft is that night so there's no real base (?)

Will keep you guys posted of how things work, but right now I only have very little info about what and how things are going to happen... It's ok, I love surprises... :E

[Crosswind Limits]

Did any expats actually begin flying online with Bjets? I passed an interview and basic sim check in late November but for various reasons decided not to accept the offer. It seems in hindsight I made the right choice! There were a couple of guys with me who were going to do their first type rating on a CJ2. I wonder if they managed to complete the course and start flying before the plug was pulled. I also have a former expat colleague who is currently in Dubai completing a Hawker 850XP course for Bjets. I have not heard from him so unsure what the current position is! He is an FO.

Sadly, I can't say I am surprised by the decision of the Indian DGCA! They are as backward and bureaucratic as can be!!:rolleyes:

[doubleu-anker]

"They are as backward and bureaucratic as can be!! "

Bureaucracy taught by the British, perfected by the Indian's themselves.

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

It's not entirely fair to lay all the blame at the feet of the DGCA.

A certain HR VP who thinks aircrew can be treated like the housemaids from a two star, low budget Accor hotel (his previous audience) is responsible for all the cock-ups involving non-payment of expenses.

[Pilot lite]

It's not entirely fair to lay all the blame at the feet of the DGCA.

A certain HR VP who thinks aircrew can be treated like the housemaids from a two star, low budget Accor hotel (his previous audience) is responsible for all the cock-ups involving non-payment of expenses.


Let me guess, one thing in common with DGCA - both are Indian?:rolleyes:

[Flintstone]

Gandhi.

Care to elaborate? PM is fine if you're twitchy.

[weido_salt]

Gandhi Was Bandy (yes I believe so)

"A certain HR VP who thinks aircrew can be treated like the housemaids from a two star, low budget Accor hotel (his previous audience) is responsible for all the cock-ups involving non-payment of expenses."

Oh this is quiet prevalent in that part of the world. It is known as S. P. S. SPS? Yes, small p**** syndrome.

Best advice, apart from corrective surgery, is to advise this guy to find a girlfriend/boyfriend with extremely small hands.

[Pilot lite]

I heard that the CEO also suffers from SPS. That explains why he employed such a person and gave him so much responsiblity.

As the old saying goes......."It's not the size that counts it's where you put it" :yuk: or somefink like that.:eek:

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

Nail/head. The guy certainly suffers from some kind of complex. It is him and the penny pinching CEO/COO that have caused all these posts from people asking where their expenses have gone.

The (ex-pat) Director of Maintenance already left. It wouldn't take much to see the others off and then where will they be? A nice new shell of a company with no-one to run it, aircraft on order with nobody to fly them.................the future's loking pretty grim unless someone steps in sharpish and makes some decisions.

[BizJetJockey]

Stop turning this forum into another rant. It gets really tedious!

:ok::ok::ok:

[chipieflyer]

BizJetJockey :D:D:D

To be fair, 7 pages before the knives come out has to be some kind of record

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

Good idea!

Let's only write good things and happy thoughts. We should refrain from warning people about bad things. Let them blindly resign their jobs and travel halfway round the world in ignorance.

How stupid of me.

[smackid]

I agree with BizJetJockey.....info from all sides is good, but we don't need all the insults and such!!

[Pilot Positive]

Now now guys, lets keep our cool and keep it constructive...this turkey shoot ain't over by a long shot. :}


:ok:

[flyingspark]

O.K lets keep things calm.Its no good slagging off CEO,s etc.Maybe the point is already being proved in the battle to hire expat FO,s.I met a couple of Bjets guys last weekend,who were on yet another brush up course in the sim, to get them through their Type Rating. :ugh:
In the international world of aviation, it doesn't matter where you come from or who you are.If you dont cut the mustard.........You're not supposed to pass! "If" theses guys do get through,how would the chief pilot feel about flying with them?:O
Thoughts anyone?.

[BizJetJockey]

Info from all sides if good....but i have come to notice on PPRUNE that if someone is even remotely bitter about something, thay have to tell the whole world and his wife about it. That's when it get's tedious. There's nothing wrong with a moan but know when to stop because to be honest it isn't really gonna get you anywhere and you'll just end up winding yourself up more and more!!! :*

Relax! :ok:

[Spam Up]

Hi

I heard that Bjets have one of their new Hawkers at EBACE, any one seen any pics or taken any ?

Regards

Spam Up

[BizJetJockey]

It's the first Hawker on it's way to India apparently! Looks like good progress to me!

Must see a pic!

[Spam Up]

Hi

Yup ! progress ! I also seen an article yesterday that they have ordered 10 Hawker 4000's, so they are obviously serious about what they are doing !

http://news.webindia123.com/news/Articles/India/20080521/958528.html

Would love to see a pic too ! anyone seen ?

Spam Up

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

Anyone thinking of heading out to Hyderabad might just want to hang back for a bit before getting involved.

The CP is one foot out the door. Other managers and directors must also be wavering. Could this be anything to do with the new pay arrangements about to be imposed on the troops?

In a stunning display of piss poor man management the COO/CEO is to announce that in future salaries will be split 70/30 and paid in India and Singapore where the tax rates are 30% and 15% respectively. Not at all what everyone was told at recruitment. To rub salt in the wound neither country has reciprocal tax agreements with either the US or UK from where most of the pilots have so far been recruited so a potential for double tax bills there.

No life insurance is in place for crew.

No medical cover is in place for US pilots.

No liability cover is in force.

Crew expenses are regularly knocked back for no apparent reason. Pilots who have bought air tickets to get to work out of their own pockets are being told to resubmit their claims the following month.

Still no company credit cards for line crew.

Finally, the HR director (an absolute charmer) has no less than five complaints of sexual harassment and racism against him so at least those who remain won't have to put up with his threats any more.

Apart from that it's a great place to be!

[Spam Up]

How do you know all this ? Do you work for the company ?


Spam up

[doubleu-anker]

I am surprised the CP has lasted as long as he has.

Remember this. The Indians are the new master race of Asia. Any expat that comes to India in a management capacity and thinking he/she will achieve anything, is mistaken. They will lie, cheat, weave, duck, dive, stall or you name it they will do it, to screw you one way or the other. It has to be a local, with "Clout" to get anything down whatsoever.

India is still a third world country, living in the dark ages.

Any expat that is employed in India and is not happy I would suggest you get another job while there are some going. Otherwise it will be India or nothing. Difficult one to call, which would be best actually.

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

Spam Up.

I assure you this comes from some very good sources.

doubleu-anker is right. This is a third world country suddenly finding itself with a big bag of money. They don't have the experience to handle the growth yet many resent the expats who can do it for them so set about 'spiking' them. Add to this someone at the top who has absolutely NO concept of how to motivate the troops and you have successfully made this start up almost impossible.

[flyingspark]

Gandhi Was bandy.:D:D:D:D
Rose tinted glasses not required,although some people posting on this thread seem to be wearing them!
If certain people could correctly interpret the info being given to them by individuals with some knowledge,then they might just see the "big picture."
What might seem like a "Tedious Rant" from someone who might be "bitter" on a recent previous post,was in fact questioning the need to put 2 guys on an extra lot of playtime in an F.N.P.T.II sim whilst in the middle of a T.R course.Not normal I think!
So you can look at the pic of the gleaming new aircraft at EBACE but there might be more important topics to discuss!

[Spam Up]

Hello

So where is the piccy of the gleaming new aircraft then ?

Spam Up

[Pilot Positive]

Gandhi was Bandy,


Has there been any reports on how much flying has actually been done?



Pilot Positive

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

About as much flying as might be expected with not one aircraft share sold yet.

If the CP, FM and maintenance director go (followed by members of their teams) this will put the company back six months.

[Stingaling]

As far as unpaid expenses are concerned, it may be an idea to "destroy/loose" your personal credit card. This will reduce most of you expenses claims in the future.

Just keep enough cash for your ticket out.

[plinkton]

Nothing will be gained by being negative...

Having said that, keep it coming everyone, including Gandhi, your input is welcome.

As chipieflyer said:

7 pages before the knives come out has to be some kind of record.

Personally I can't see this imploding yet, it's just a case of how much stress folks can take and how much waiting around people are prepared to do. There will be 'casualties' of course.

My favourite quote of the thread so far comes from Pilot Positive and makes a good point in less words than I can:

Now now guys, lets keep our cool and keep it constructive...this turkey shoot ain't over by a long shot.

[Treetopflyer]

Yep, I can only say that all this input is welcome... Especially given the total lack of information given by BJets to its crews...

[BizJetJockey]

I'm inclined to agree!!!

[EECEPR]

So is this company for real - will it happen - are they are cheap organization even with Tata behind them.

:E

[BizJetJockey]

Cheap? Which side of the fence are you standing? If it's the Pilot's side then i think the hope is that they aren't cheap and that they will be rewarding the Pilots with what they deserve as paid professionals who have sacrificed a lot. Firstly to get where they are and secondly to help a company like Bjets get itself off the ground! (Excuse the pun) A company that deals in aviation needs to remember that without the Pilots, it ain't gonna do much aviating!

[flybypilot]

I might be going back a few pages here but people seem to be under the impression that all the pilots will be of Asain background. I bumped into a few of their CJ guys the other day and all were white British guys and seemed to be nice enough fellows! They seemed fairly happy with their progress and were hoping to get some time on type prior to leaving for India.

[chipieflyer]

They seemed fairly happy with their progress and were hoping to get some time on type prior to leaving for India.

.....starting tomorrow I believe :ok:

[EECEPR]

OK I did not put it well. I am working in large LCC and the rules here are insane - low per diems etc etc. You can tell a good company by the way they make small decisions and big ones. Secondly, I must be honest having an asian aviation company with all expensive management expats means the cost is huge (with housing scholl etc) so the revenues must make and or exceed - no? Why so many expats (and do not say that all asians are not capable - as I am eurasian). Please advise.

Thanks just asking please no one take offense.

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

Chief Pilot leaving this week.

Director of Maintenance leaving this week (2nd one in a few months).

CJ Fleet Manager leaving this week.

A number of experienced captains to follow.

[weido_salt]

No sh*t! Talk about a mass exodus.

There is strength in numbers and this is of course, is the only language that will make them sit up and take notice.

[plinkton]

Keep it coming Gandhi...

[Spam Up]

Thats not good news IF, it turns out to be true !


Spam Up :{

[Flintstone]

Heard the same thing myself. Can only hope that someone gets in there quickly and takes things in hand.

[EECEPR]

So please tell me why oh why - did they start operations? Do they have good ops people who can run this organization in a fair manner? More data please........................

[CirrusF]

Did anybody get their expenses refunded for attending BJets interviews at Gatwick?

I haven't had mine, despite several promises from them.

It leaves a bad smell. I know many airlines don't pay interview expenses, but at least they say so up front. It is sneaky to invite people to interview, tell them that expenses will be refunded, and then not refund them. I hope this is not the case with BJets and that they will eventually pay up....

[Pilot Positive]

Hang on in their chaps, lets not let the smaller short term/tactical hiccups corrupt the bigger picture. :ok:

By the time Bjets management have gone through their "transition" phase then the DGCA may have re-considered their position on expat FOs.

Tata and Briley have invested a lot of $$$s in to this venture - they know what the potential gain is - so they will not let Bjets fall at its inception because of initial upsets.

It just means it may take a little longer to get that FO job than originally thought. :rolleyes:

[weido_salt]

Pilot Positive

"Hang on in their chaps, lets not let the smaller short term/tactical hiccups corrupt the bigger picture...."

I admire your optimism if nothing else..

How do you figure a mass workout by management post holders, a short term hiccup? There has to be something very, very wrong with an outfit that vets staff, employs them, then screw them around to the extent they all walk out!! Come on man get grip. Maybe you think, just employ more of the same and everything will be OK?

[Pilot Positive]

Weido_ Salt,

I think you will find the $$$s Tata & Briley have invested + the fact its a new start up with an opportunity to make something big happen will be incentive enough for others managers to look at BJets as a serious option. Especially given the recent turn of events.

I am quite positive that the guys/girls who oversee BJets will also learn from the "mass workout" (or did you mean walkout?) - perhaps called an industry learning curve? I will not put a timeframe against this learning curve but - given problems which effect revenue - they will look to solve it initially ad hoc. They are use to these kinds of difficulties - although they may not have been aware of them in this industry.

Do not be put off by the practicalities to deny fiscal gain. There is always a way forward when it comes to $$$s. And there are always people willing to step up to the challenge.

Its not easy, in fact its near on impossible, to be sucessful but those who stick at it whilst everyone falls by the wayside will win. The world owes you nothing and some people who recognise this commercial reality benefit. Perhaps, on this occassion, not you.

Did you really think these guys would splash cash randomly and then just simply walk away shrugging their shoulders at the first sign of difficulty? If I am wrong (and I am always happy to put my hands up and admit my mistake) then it would say something about the 2 companies involved that large finicial institutions have not identified. Not likely. They have got where they are today with a lot more commercial nout and tenacity than you or I or any individual disgruntled (rightly or wrongly) with the current operation.

Happy to discuss my experiences on these matters on a one to one private basis. In the meantime may I suggest you keep your cool and watch how things develop rather than panicking?

Pilot Positive :)

[weido_salt]

We shall see...

Regardless of how much money has been thrown at the operation, it is no guarantee of success, if they have the wrong key people overseeing (hamstringing) the operation.

[Pilot Positive]

Plinkton - thanks for your PM. :ok:

[Gandhi Was Bandy]

Well the CP walked and the company are now in firefighting mode. I think there are more surprises to come though.

Hope they get it together soon. A lot of people are sitting at home waiting to go to work.

[Treetopflyer]

Are they paid, though? I mean, the people who have signed the employement offer, the bond agreement and given all their document (including bank account :E) to BJets, are they paid while waiting at home?

[flyingspark]

Treetopflyer.
The people that were Type Rated by Bjets,and have signed all the relavent paperwork,including the bond,are indeed being paid. In the case of some people ,this has been 6 months or more.

[Treetopflyer]

Ok... Well, then it's not THAT bad...:cool:

[sim-800]

Hi, Any latest news regarding Bjets,Hope problems are still going in there.:{

[hard_landing]

Looked on an Indian business site yesterday. Bjets CEO says he expects operations in India to start in September. Also, that he expects to have 100 clients by the end of the year, having already secured deals to provide travel for a number of corporates. Hopefully something will start to happen by the end of the year. Just got to hang on in there. A friend spoke to someone in India RE the expat situation. He was told that it could be due to recent elections in India & that it could be relaxed in the coming months

[Flintstone]

Hope problems are still going in there.

Seems a strange thing to write. I can only assume/hope that something got lost in translation.:confused:

With the expat thing the explanation is simple if frustrating. Influential families sent their offspring to the US to obtain licences. Offspring, like every other newly qualified pilot, find it dificult to find jobs so their parents put pressure on the government. With an election looming they imposed the ban which we can only hope will disappear later on. If it doesn't indian aviation is going to be in a fine old mess.

As for the BJets operation itself there should be signs of life soon. The original COO* has been asked to return, he arrives in Hyderabad this week, so expect to see movement. Those pilots being paid to sit at home might soon have to start working for their money :O





* I originally posted this as 'CEO'. Sorry.

[EECEPR]

Ha this is not Mark B anymore???? I am totally confused............Can someone shed some light on this please//////////

[sim-800]

Is it CEO or COO,Flintstone please clarify.

Thing are not good in Bjets ,CEO is been advised by people without any aviation background,No one in operations, Engg,QC the main deptt's in any aviation company ,as per a friend of mine from Hyderabad who had gone for a interview in April, Current situation not known.
Can Gandhi tell somthing

[Flintstone]

Whoops, sorry folks. Typo.:\

The CEO is staying. He has been acting as CEO/COO but the original COO, who left last year, has returned. I'd expect a cone of silence while he assesses the situation then some activity.

[Pilot Positive]

Flintstone - sounds about right.

I'll be holding onto my hat and patiently waiting for a positive outcome.

Business as usual in 3 months?


:)

[EECEPR]

Who is old COO heard they are still looking for one???

[Flintstone]

Some new management.

Much improved lines of communication and organisation.

Negotiation with DGCA for permission to use expat pilots.

The fat lady ain't singing.

[Pilot Positive]

Hi Flintstone,When you say improved lines of communication will this include the pilots who were interviewed and were successful? And if so, when can they expect an update at least with regards to moving forward?Not trying to throw a curve ball just interested if you have any additional insight.Thanks

[Pilot Positive]

I'll learn to use spaces between paragraphs soon... :-)

[Flintstone]

PP.

New management issue an email to employees every day or two telling them what's happening. For now those in the holding pool aren't included because a) there are too many and b) it's not certain that the company will get the dispensation to bring on more expats.

[Twin2040]

Is Hydrabad only available base so far or is Singapore a possiblity to. Thanks.

[Flintstone]

Not sure what's happening regarding Singapore basing. I think they're flat out trying to sort Hyderabad!

[EECEPR]

The truth is this so called professional group tried to hire me and my friends and they are so screwed up they never returned emails and no calls after serious interviews and promises. Please tell them to screw off and find a new positions as this young green ceo is only a marketing boy and has no idea how to run an airline so please do yourself a favor and find run away as it is not going to happen...................................................... ................................................:=:=:=:=:=

[sim-800]

The truth is this so called professional group tried to hire me and my friends and they are so screwed up they never returned emails and no calls after serious interviews and promises. Please tell them to screw off and find a new positions as this young green ceo is only a marketing boy and has no idea how to run an airline so please do yourself a favor and find run away as it is not going to happen............................................ .................................................. ........:=:=:=:=:=


You are absolutely right EECEPR the CEO is a blady fool and a day dreamer , accompanied by an equally stupid supporter the VP HR.

This is not a company for professionals .

No body should try here . they promise something and never full fill it.
:=

[High Gravity Day]

In my opinion this company is a total disaster, but then most Indian flight departments are. My recommendation is to be VERY careful when considering employment with any Indian company.

[weido_salt]

Inability of any company to communicate, says all.

[sim-800]

Correct Wiedo,

And this is just because their the bosses are busy filling their pockets. Their VP HR is in front line , Ihave read a lot about him on this forum and was keen to find out more about him. He is realy a bad man drawing salary more than Pilots, is a criminal and is most close to the stupid CEO.A lot of good people have left the company because of him(speacialy females).

I am no where related to this company but was still interested to know how the charters work as I am a flyer with a scheduled airlines in India.

The top people are realy minting money and making the owner fool, no one seems to be serious about running the company.

You can see few of them running in the DGCA head offices.
They all seems to be fools knowing nothing about civil aviation.
I saw thier VP corporate at DGCA this friday , he is a joker.

This company is realy a havoc.

Planes are sitting at hanger no one at delhi airport since last month.
A few people have turned this company into a very bad place, I don't know what the owner is doing !!!!!!!!:ugh:

[WIKI44]

From what I hear the only asessment criteria for hiring local FOs is a $25,000 bribe to HR.

Looks like BJETS is shaping up to be a real success.

[BizJetJockey]

Interesting comments!

[weido_salt]

Bribes?! Would not expect that sort of behaviour in India.

[Flintstone]

Playing devil's advocate here.

Does anyone else we've a couple of BJets rejects in our midst? :E

[CirrusF]

Startup companies always have hiccups and delays, even in an easy regulatory environment like UK. I can well imagine that trying to get a company off the ground in a difficult regulatory envrionment like India will always take longer and cost more than originally planned.

But some progress has been made - I got my interview expenses reimbursed last week!

[hard_landing]

Flintstone, I think you may have hit the nail on the head there :E:E

[Flintstone]

Before the rumours start let's lay out the facts.

BJets is a start-up and as such had to make reaching decisions including some in the area of recruitment. They took on quite a few low houred pilots and out of necessity these crew had to be hired before the aircraft arrived.

After pilots were offered positions and some had embarked upon their (company funded) type rating courses the Indian authorities declared that no expat FO's would be allowed to work on Indian registered aircraft in any company, not just BJets. Why? Well maybe that had something to do with influential/moneyed families who sent their precious little princes and princesses overseas to become 'airline pilots' :rolleyes:. Said offspring are now back in India with their sausage factory, ink-still-wet-licences demanding jobs despite some barely having qualified and still being in need of further training. Again this is not BJets specific but countrywide.

Presented with a situation not of their making BJets management lobbied very, very hard to obtain a dispensation from the DGCA. This was denied and after several months of paying and training expats the company has had to admit that their time and money has been wasted. I know those who had to make this decision and it has been very difficult for them.

As for setting the company up..... you would not believe the bureaucracy. Obstacle after obstacle is invented by the authorities and each time a solution is presented yet another obstacle appears. Someone up there ^^^ made a smart arsed comment about the aircraft sitting in a hangar. Well, yeah. I guess that's what happens when your 'authorities' insist upon each aircraft being virtually stripped before it can go on the local register. Is that the company's fault or the authorities? Muppet.

BJets have at last conducted their first revenue flights in the face of this adversity. Their order book is huge and I for one wish them well having been offered (and declined) a senior position with them. Anyone who can start up a company from scratch under third, nay fourth, world conditions has my respect.

My opinion. The Indian authorities would rather have their low-time, scary-dangerous newbie pilots operating in their blisfully ignorant state than accept that they cannot cope without imported expertise and experience. I would not be at all surprised if this leads to some serious incidents knowing what I do of some Indian pilots and the aviation infrastructure in that country. They should all be very worried.

[Crosswind Limits]

Flintstone

Cheers for all your efforts on behalf of all expats! I was offered a job by Bjets in December 07 but declined. I have family in India and they warned me about the massive and pointless bureaucracy and corruption in most facets of life. It's truly crippling! There is so much potential in India but........alas.......

Good luck those who are looking for jobs!

[Flintstone]

CL.

I'd like to take the credit but in the words of the song it wasn't me. I do however know the people trying to sort this unholy mess and believe me if there was a way to keep these pilots employed it would have been done.

From the outside it looks to me that 'some' people have certain interests and are constantly moving the goalposts but I'm sure someone who posted earlier will be along to correct me ;)

[High Gravity Day]

There are definitely powers aligned against Bjets, even within the company itself. And the first revenue flight they are so proud of was done illegally, from another country. Also, it's never been any secret that expats cannot be hired as co-pilots on Indian registered aircraft. That law has been on the books for years.

[Flintstone]

HGD. "Probationary PPRuNer" Two posts, both (negative) on BJets yet claiming to be in Dubai?;)

I'm not exactly pro the company but I do possess a healthy degree of cynicism which comes of having been around this place for too long I suppose.

Genuine question, how was it an illegal flight? I heard it was outside India but I'm sure that alone won't have the DGCA down on them. C'mon, spill the beans. Once I know the answer I can stick it to some people I know. Stir them up a bit :E



Edited: No response. I suppose that tells us all we needed to know.

[sim-800]

Flintstone HGD might be a probationary ppruner with two posts and both negative , correct but one thing which he has written is 100% correct and it is that the Govt order of not hiring Expat F/O after 1stJune was there since Jan 2008 and a written order was passed a little later.

This company had great potential and still it have a great potential to prove itself.

Flintstone you seem to be very close to some one at a good position in the company, so please ask them to hire some good people who has good knowledge of civil aviation rules in India.

I am a Boeing 737-800 pilot flying with a schedule airlines and have a carrier of about 8 years in civil aviation and 15 years in Indian Air Force, the man who is thier advisor is a biggest fool and is not liked by anyone in DGCA. He has no aviation knowledge .

I along with a few experienced pilots wants to join this company but are waiting for the things to improve.

[hamper76]

I understand another Ex-pat pilot has recently resigned...

...soon they will be no one left.

[Flintstone]

sim-800

Firstly I did not say that HGD had posted anything that was incorrect so putting that slant on your post is a wee bit sneaky. We all know that Indian aviation is a minefield as far as rules and regs are concerned. The authorities seem to have been happy to turn a blind eye to this rule for quite some time otherwise how else did all those expats who have been working there the last few years get in? I think we both know how things work there and with the right 'friends' and arrangements they can be made easier.

I'm sure BJets would welcome you and your friends with open arms (or maybe not) but if you are as knowledgable as you suggest why not join them now and give them the benefit of your experience? I wouldn't count on them wanting you just because you fly a 737 though, it's an entirely different world.

[BizJetJockey]

Well said Flinty, Quite right!:ok:

I sense a degree of bias on sim-800s behalf! If you are interested in joining bjets but waiting until things correct themselves, I think you may be waiting a while. It'll be when the DGCA realises that backhanders and friendly deposits of varying amounts aren't the way to bring its aviation standards into the 21st century!

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong!:ok:

As far as Bjets goes...well I wish them the very best of luck. I think there is the potential to build on something very successful. If various influential people would get a grip of their own self importance then maybe they might allow Bjets to offer India something great that barely exists over there and maybe the people that are so dead against anything progressive, might be able to take advantage of it!

Hmm...hadn't thought of that now had we?:eek:

I've said my tuppence worth!

I'm going to the pub!:}

[sim-800]

Let me make clear Bizjet that a few of my friends had applied in Bjets but their Manager mr. PS Ganesh told them that they were not hiring any Indian Pilots as Expats were available at a much cheaper Rate, and that now there a lot available in America from AA and United.

Then when this notice came of no more F/O expats they in a hurry hired raw Indian F/O who are not fit for flying immediately. Now they have fired 3 out of 4 and now these 3 F/O are back on the road again and the company has again wasted some more money.

We wanted the things to improve means that a company has not yet started and it has fired more than 25 employes, no job security.

[Flintstone]

sim-800

Please. If you're going to "make it clear" then at least get your facts straight.

The low-time Indian FO's were hired long before the authorities decided to enforce the no ex-pat rule and prior to any UA/AA pilots being available. If memory serves the UA/AA crew were furloughed in July whereas the local FO's were hired around the beginning of this year. Tell us how this fits in with your fanciful version of events?

If you want stability in the company have a word with the Indian authorities and ask them to stop moving the goalposts. Oh, and for the record poling a third-hand, clapped out Mig 21 around for the IAF does not instantly qualify you for a bizjet job.

[Flyingthru]

I have been following this thread for a long time. I'd like to see it stay alive. If anyone can offer more updates regarding Captain hiring in the 525's as well as operational status - at the least I know I would appreciate it. Thank you to all whom have contributed thus far.

[fly2fly]

GANESH??? manager?? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
I really don't know where you get your info from!!:ugh::ugh:

[BizJetJockey]

I think Mr 800 needs to quantify his statements with some hard facts and not rumours. As for the cheap ex-pat statement...well i am pretty sure no ex-pat would regard himself to be cheap! Good value yes! I also don't think anyone with an ounce of professionalism would divulge the type of information you have regurgitated in this forum...if they have then all i can say is hopefully they don't work for Bjets any more.

The hiring of ex-pats was for the very simple reason of decent training and reliability. Unfortunately it seems that people are more concerned with their own success and self importance and don't want to admit that they need that level of trained personnel.

Like Flinty said...it will end up with some serious incidents. Maybe a couple of these might make someone in the DGCA wake up and then perhaps maybe something might move forward. They have to realise though, that progress is only achievable when you are willing to admit you need help.

Saving face and pride will ultimately prevent this!

[weido_salt]

I am afraid national pride will over rule any safety concerns, in 3rd world countries.

Bjets is a civil operation, so correct me if I am wrong, why the hell do ex military public servants think they have an automatic seat, in civey street?

Where I come from, candidates are selected on merit and not how much clout the family have. The behaviour in India resembles that of a banana republic.

As correctly pointed out in this thread, type ratings dont make the man. You are born with ability, therefore, it cannot be bought or taught.

For above reasons and more, Bjets have a very uphill struggle indeed to succeed. When things do go wrong, the expats will be blamed of course.

[BizJetJockey]

Move it to Singapore where the Business community are a lot more friendly. It should have been done a long time ago. Less bull:mad: and the country is ready for this type of operation. Plus it's geographical location is perfect. Why do all the carriers use it as a stop off point on the way to Oz etc.etc? No brainer as far as I can see.

India might be a rapidly expanding economy but this is the problem...it's expanding way too fast. Yes BJETS is a great idea but i think it is seen as an operation that is too monopolizing and those smaller companies that are already established feel threatened. They are going to do anything in their power to hamper this. Money talks!:eek:

[Flintstone]

Watch this space. Things may become...interesting ;)

[Flyingthru]

Still watching.:rolleyes:

[Flintstone]

Impatient, aren't we?

[Twin2040]

Absolutely !

[Flintstone]

Dispensation granted to BJets for some expat FO's. No idea if this is a pre-cursor to more or a group of one-offs (can you have more than one 'one off'? :confused:)

[Flyingthru]

So, you're saying some have been allowed to stay? I was just told last week that even FO's who have been validated and approved are now having their validations revoked. LOTS of rule changing going on it seems.

[Flintstone]

Hmmmm, who knows? Last I heard a small number were allowed to stay providing they upgrade to PIC "soon".

Nothing would surprise me though in that part of the world.:rolleyes:

[fly2fly]

Yes, but they still need to meet PIC requirements for a PIC validation, which is not the case of 99% of them.
This DGCA, I'm telling you...
What a shame!

[Flintstone]

I was told they were alowed with the proviso that they made the requirements in a short time. Just heard that 'someone' has changed their mind :rolleyes: and the deal's off.

[Flyingthru]

Was it you Flinstone or another clever one that said they keep moving the goal post? If they could make any rule - no matter how lofty - and just stick with the ruling things wouldn't be such a holy mess. Best of luck to anyone that decides to or is flying over there.

[Pilot Positive]

Flintstone,

The fact they have considered this new provisio could be good news as it suggests they are becoming a little more flexible and perhaps open-minded? Given your experience any thoughts about which way things are likely to turn?


Pilot Positive :)

[BizJetJockey]

To be honest i think it would be easier to just disregard any decision the DGCA makes because it is blatantly obvious that they are never going to follow through. I personally think they thrive on causing chaos! :ooh:

[Flintstone]

I wish I could disagree with BJJ (not because I want a fight but because it would mean things were looking up) but I can't. Agreements seem to be easily broken in that aprt of the world with egos, politics and dare I say it money all playing a part*. Bloody disappointing as a lot of hard work has gone and continues to go into starting BJets up.

I really hope things change for the better, a lot of good people stand to lose out otherwise.





*Purely my view of things from a distance and in no way 'official'.

[Treetopflyer]

Well, my personal (and short) experience with BJets:

- Went through interview with some fine gentlemen who were only contracted by the company to hire expats.

- Got an answer from the company only 2 months later, hiring me as Captain. We exchanged paperwork, contracts, bank details and the like.

- One month after contract start date, I had no news (and no replies to my emails / phone calls), and more importantly no salary was paid to my account.

- One month and a half after contract start date, still with no money paid by the company, I was given a training course date. Luckily, by that time, I had found another job with a more serious operator, so I was able to decline and move on.

That's what happened to me. I'm sure given the general mess in HR over there, everyone's experience will be different. Yet I would not advise anybody to go there, unless they can't find anything else, or are getting their first jet job.

[GUSTO]

Well I experienced similar behavior with BJET . Interview , ect ...
I have been waiting for my contract for the last 2 month or so , but since then , nothing ... only promess it will arrive next week ...

If a company behave like that don't even bother ... and try to get another job somewhere else .

Hey Treetoflyer do you enjoy the Falcon :ok:?

[Treetopflyer]

Love it... :cool:

So BJets did not work for you either, uh?

Cya around...

[Frynog]

Just out of interest, any FOs mind sharing what hours they were accepted with?

[Flyingthru]

Frynog - unless you're Indian your not going to get an SIC job with them. Read through the thread. Pretty ugly.

[Frynog]

I understand that, just wondering what people were initially getting in with.

[Flintstone]

The lowest houred FO offered a job didn't even have a licence and was promised a position upon completion of their studies/licence issue. Somewhat extenuating circumstances there though. Somebody who had been in the industry a few years, well known to all concerned, extremely quick learner etc.

Otherwise I think there were a few other newly qualified fATPLs with just over 250 hours. That's what was so galling about this ban on ex-pat FO's, it would have given a few people a real jump start to their careers.

[Frynog]

wowzers that is low! Terrible shame :(

[BizJetJockey]

Certainly would have been an interesting start...I hear that Pilots flying in India are experts at holding! How many holds can you do in the space of a couple of hours...? Flight time 40 mins...total trip time 2 hours 40 mins!!! :}:D

[weido_salt]

Depends what and where you're holding I guess.

[Flintstone]

You're not wrong. Sometimes it isn't even a published hold, they just have you meander about the skies for 45 minutes.

Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery :rolleyes:

[BizJetJockey]

Sounds wonderfully safe having all these planes flying unpublished holds! Don't forget the break right rule...or was that left?:eek::}

In all honesty, in a country like India where the aviation industry is expanding at such an expeditious rate...Aviation planning and safety should be at the top of the Governments priority. If it is expanding so fast that they can't keep up, then in the interest of safety...they should put the brakes on and let ATC catch up.:ok:;)

[WIKI44]

BJETS, which aims to start the first pan-Asian fractional ownership firm with 50 business jets, plans to actively offer aircraft management services as well to meet growing demand in India and South-East Asia.
"We have started operations as a fractional ownership, block charter company and traditional charter company, and that remains our core business. India and South-East Asia have great potential and we are confident about the opportunities that lie ahead," says Mark Baier, chief executive of BJETS.
"However, several potential customers in both regions have asked us to manage their aircraft. We did anticipate moving into this area eventually, but the demand for this service has taken us by surprise. There appears to be a shortage of good aircraft management companies in these regions, and we have the expertise to provide this. We believe that we can fill this gap."
For now, the focus remains on BJETS' existing business. It has taken delivery of four of the 40 jets it ordered, and started charter operations as planned in September after test flights in August. Baier admits that the company has not signed any clients for its fractional ownership programme, but he expects that to change shortly.
"There is greater demand for fractional ownership than block charters, and we have flown potential clients on our aircraft to let them enjoy the experience. Fractional ownership is a relatively new concept in India and South-East Asia, but there is growing interest and customers will sign shortly," says Baier.
The company has firm orders for 20 Cessna Citation CJ2+s, nine Hawker 850XPs, 11 Hawker 900XPs, and 10 Hawker 4000s. Three 850XPs and one CJ2+ have been delivered, and it plans to add three more CJ2+s and one 850XP by the end of the year.
25/09/08 Siva Govindasamy/Flight International



Started operations already?

[lilpilot15]

flintstone,bjj, gandhi, treetop...keep it comming :)
i just read the whole thread today...seems interesting...

[BizJetJockey]

As planned!?!?! Not sure that's quite accurate!

[lilpilot15]

BJETS eyes international tie-ups


New Delhi: Singapore-based private charter operator BJets, is looking at tie-ups with international carriers to provide them feeder services to smaller cities in India.
"We are in talks with some international carriers though I will not be able to mention names. These airlines have presence in select cities and we might offer the passengers feeder services to smaller cities in the country in our corporate jets," said Mark Baier, CEO, Bjets, while unveiling its custom fitted Hawker 850 XP aircraft at the Delhi airport today.
"We might also talk to Indian carriers but that will come later," he added.
BJETS is based out of Mumbai and Singapore and would offer private jet services within India and to Southeast Asian destinations like Singapore and HongKong. Last year, the company placed an order for 50 private jets which include 20 Cessna Citation CJ2+s, nine Hawker 850XPs, 11 Hawker 900XPs and 10 Hawker 4000s. Four of the aircraft have already been delivered and four more will be delivered by the end of 2008.
30/09/08 Business Standard