Whats the story Virgin?

[cessnaman172]

I've been applying to Virgin Blue for around 4 years now, and apart from the usual computer generated response, have not yet had a call or email to go up to Spring Hill for an interview. I have regional airline turboprop time, and thought this would have helped a bit, but, obviously not!

Anyone care to share how to snag an interview??


:ugh: :confused: :ugh: :confused: :ugh: :confused: :ugh: :confused: :ugh: :confused: :ugh: :confused:

[Stationair8]

Dad or any living or deceased relative have anything to do with Ansett, TAA or Eastwest in that year between 1988 and 1990?
No blood relatives on that scab list that doesn't exist?

[All Spades]

HR Departments of airlines are the most incompetent departments of all. The lowcost operators probably have just pushed the job of recruitment onto someone's plate. That someone neither cares nor is probably capable.
Seeing as you most likely have to pay for your endorsement these days, don't worry about them and move onto another operator.
That sort of thing happened to me with a company earlier in my career and funnily enough, they wrote to me a few years later.It was like it was an instantaneous response to a first application and they were expecting me to be checking the mail twice a day for their letter.
You can guess the response they got from me. Undeterred, they kept writting back every 6 mths or so for quite a while.
Still scrapping to find pilots now but,tough!
Good luck and don't let the bast-rds grind you down.

[AerocatS2A]

Perhaps you don't have a very good application? Might be an idea to seek some professional help to make it as competitive as possible.

[ACMS]

Virgin use "referrals" a lot.

So do you know any Pilot's in VB? Ones that would be prepared to pass on your update with a recommendation? ( I say update as you've already applied )



hey I just hit 500.....

[apache]

SIX years, I applied to them for. I updated regularly,had 3 "blue stars", emailed them twice to make sure they knew I was there, even tried to call JW to see if there was anything else I could do.....

I HEARD NOTHING!!!!! until I accepted another job. A BETTER job, where I did not have to fork out 35k. Where I was PAID to learn. Where my time was appreciated.
The week before I commenced my new job, they sent me an email, which sounded to me like I should be GRATEFUL to them for even offering me an interview!!!!

well, with communication skills like this from their HR department, I forsee a HUGE pilot shortage for them, cos people will get other jobs quicker than holding out for VB to acknowledge you even exist!

[kiwi chick]

I hate to be the Party Pooper here, but have you ever thought that, well... cough, maybe they don't want you?

It's not just about the hours you've got in your logbook. I don't think.

[The Bunglerat]

In terms of "referrals," for years the "blue star" system has been implemented - whereby someone already working within the company would stick a blue star on a mate's application. The more blue stars, the more likely your application would be fast-tracked for an invitation to interview. However I think you'll find they're moving away from this practise, as they have had their fingers burnt in the past - mainly from taking on guys that really weren't ready to step up to a jet, and subsequently required a lot of additional training to finally get up to speed. Just one reason I'm sure why the new recruiting process now requires, amongst other things, a screening check in a B737 sim.

Nevertheless whilst the new process may be fairer in some ways, there is still the question of how to get your name on the list of interview candidates in the first place. On this note, I would reiterate what has already been said, in the context of making your application look as good as possible. And I'm not talking about just making sure your logbook hours add up nicely. It's been a very long time since I looked at the application format, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I do remember it asking a couple of questions such as "why do you want to work for VB/what qualities can you bring to the role?" or something like that. As such, the quality of your answers might make all the difference (with correct spelling too whilst we're at it). Just my 50 cents' worth.

[Bendo]

Kiwi Chick... no. I have never thought that. :ok: :ugh:

Apache... ACMS reckons they use re-ferals a lot at DJ. Maybe you're just not feral enough for them? :uhoh:

[kiwi chick]

No what? It's not just about the hours?

Or no, it's not that they just don't want him?

[Capt Wally]

:bored:....geeeeeeeeez kiwi chick you sure know how to bring a guy down in a hurry!......must be more of that morning sickness hey?:} You may very well be correct in yr assumption there but am sure he not want to hear it !
I know of several pilots who could easily fit their 'mould' with 1000's of hrs on turbines but never get the chance for an interview, or if they did took sooooooooooo long ! I don't feel the numbers mean all that much, the ref's play an important role I believe & knowing someone already in there with any clout is what aviation is all about sadly !

CW

[kiwi chick]

Morning Sickness? Jaysus, those days are LONG gone!!! :eek:

Comments like that will start rumours... ;)

[Capt Wally]

........sorry Kiwi but I read that just this morning elsewhere in hear, ginger tablets help??

..................ahhhh to be a bloke !!!:}

CW

p.s...............lovely country you live in, been there a few times lately & it's still beautiful every time !:)

[cessnaman172]

Thanks everyone.

No, I dont have any relatives that were or are involved in the industry.

My C.V. for the application is condensed on to one page. The format I am using was given to me by a friend overseas who attended a seminar conducted by a well known european L.C.C. for potential applicants. They gave a copy of the C.V. format that they and many other airlines preffered, to each person that attended. The format contains everything a potential employer needs to know in an easy to read format, that is'nt pages and pages long. Just a cover letter, and a 1 page C.V. They also gave a copy of the format that airlines preffered for the actual interview also. Why? Because I guess over there they probably had the foresight to see that they were about to have a pilot shortage on their hands.

I update regularly to V.B. and have heard or received nothing! I applied to Jetstar for the first time in December 2006, and by September 2007 was invited to attend Stage 1 (which I did, and.......). V.B. on the other hand, 4 years and waiting..................................................... ..........



And yes, I am still with that regional airline I mentioned in my first post.

[kiwi chick]

Hey Cessnaman172!

Sorry, I didn't mean to be harsh. :(

All I meant was, maybe there is a reason that they haven't called you?

Have you pissed anybody in the industry off? Or maybe you've (as suggested by someone else) just not worded your CV or letter very well?

If it were me, I would be pro-active and rock on up, or ring, or find someone you know who knows someone who knows someone else. :}

I know the saying is "good things come to those who wait" but sometimes that's just a crock of ****!

Get out there boy and go for it! :ok:

[cessnaman172]

Kiwi Chick,

I haven't pissed anyone off in the industry that I know about!

[kiwi chick]

Ummmmmmm.....

Slept with anyone's wife?! :}

Or husband? :eek:

[Metro man]

Expand your horizons a bit. Try overseas. Dragon Air are looking, may not be the best job but use it for a few years to get decent experience and move on.

Overseas generally = better pay, lower taxes, faster progression.

In many companies you could have applied, been hired, trained and even upgraded in four years. You're still waiting for an interview :ugh:

[boocs]

"Dragon Air are looking," try 'Dragonair are screaming for pilots' could be closer to the truth. The recent 20% payrise :ok: is a step in the right direction as well (amongst other things).

b.

[Spanwise Flow]

Took me 8500 hours, 6 years and previous jet time. Airline recruiting practices are THE most frustrating :mad: :ugh: :yuk: ...load of....:mad:...and will never make sense or be understood in a million years, even by the people who run them.

[Stationair8]

Airline recruiting in Australia works in very mysterious ways, you could probably solve global warming and the oil crisis more easily and quickly.
The local airfield that I operate from lots a guys have applications in with Virgin, most have around 2000-3000 hour mark with a mix of command multi, multi crew and turbine, but no luck yet the junior female instructor from the local flying schools gets in with very little multi time. Likewise a mate joined Ansett in 1991, and when they folded put in application with Virgin and has never had a reply. Likewise myself had an application in with Kendall's when they did their big recruiting drive in the late 90's, with about 6000 hours including multi-crew turbine on Metro and single-pilot multi, never got an interview or any response from then, so go figure!

[MAX]

The reality is you are dealing with a HR dept.

In my expererience, a bunch of people who know absolutely nothing about flying or a jet from their elbow.

You need to be creative to get fast tracked eg: an insider or an unpublished phone number.

Otherwise you're just in the lucky dip like everyone else.

Good luck.

MAX:cool:

[cessnaman172]

All comments posted are absolutely correct! Especially the one about people in HR departments that do not knowing anything about aeroplanes or pilots!!! Nothing could be truer than that!

As for the upublished number, anyone care to share it!!!!????:}

[All Spades]

Hey Bunglerat,
Are you suggesting that VB didn't do any sim checking before employing previously and then found that the employees couldn't handle the plane?
I thought the way it worked was that you paid for your endorsement with one of those on offer and then the VB Check Pilot did your Type Rating Check which became your " interview" sim as well as the test for CASA to accept the training under the VB AOC ( dubious in my opp. to say the least).I believe that the employment contract was supposed to be signed after a successful ride but, before the paperwork to make it appear legal .
If they subsequently found crew to be not up to standard,how honest was the Type Rating Test? Surely a Certification from their own Standards Department that the candidate was safe and capable would ensure that they can handle the plane? Maybe not, in the brave new world.

Cessnaman172 ,
I have lots of hours in a 172 ,all good fun and hard work .Can you still honestly count hours after 25 odd years? Must be some statute of limitations?

Even a highly funded and professional interview process is well known to be notoriously unrealiable with many top people never getting a look and many crazys slipping through the net.
I have heard of more than one getting through the VB Net with recommendations from family high up in the system.

They are not worth waiting for. In Fact , I would choose Dragon above VB every day of the week. Cathay are also looking as are many,many other good operators.There are turbo prop jobs around that may lead to bigger jet equipment.So most are foreign,.....so what?
Bucket loads more money with some of these operators than you will ever see in VB and you won't have to shell out for the endorsement.

Don't limit yourself to Australia, it's a much smaller wide world out there than it used to be.Australian aviation is improving as far as equipment goes but the conditions are taking a much bigger hit.When some of these lowcosts fall by the wayside ( in a country when only about 20% of 19 mill people fly ,can you really sustain 4 domestic airlines and 3 internationals?),or , when the pilots have had enough of the low salaries, there will be big rush of qualified jet pilots trying to get into solid carriers overseas. Beat them to it.

Just remember, when you have gotten over this hump ( and you will), after your career has become stratospheric and you are interviewing other 'hopefuls' for a job,..... remember when.
Give another sucker a break or at least a friendly ear.
Oh, and don't forget me! I may well be asking you for a job one day.

[rammel]

I agree with the comments about looking overseas. There are plenty of operators in Hong Kong looking for pilots. I know a guy who is in Hong Kong now, who also applied to Virgin and heard nothing.

He has 4500+ hrs most on turbines, and was hired, trained and over in HK in the space of 3 months. He isn't with the best paid airline, but is making more than if he went to Jetstar or Virgin. He also didn't need to pay for an endorsement.

[pakeha-boy]

Quote....cessna172 " I've been applying to Virgin Blue for around 4 years now'

:ugh::{...GET USED TO IT!!!...Ive had apps in with UPS for the last 20+yrs....:{....Ireckon they dont want me.....but now Ijust send them in so personal can get a good laugh,take the piss out of me......roll my CV into a ball and take shots at the rubbish tin.......

piece of advice son.....just keep sending them,and dont take it personally if they dont show up at the doorstep with a limo to take you to HQ...for your job interview to fly that brand new 787

...also the HR Stuff....doesnt matter whether they know ****e about pilots,A/C etc.....has nothing to do with it....they are the ones you have to suck up to and get past if you wont the job.........now go stand in front of a mirror and start "sucking-up"...you obviously dont have many interviews under your belt........reality-fantasy.....reality-fantasy.....reality-fantasy

[The Bunglerat]

All Spades, by the time line training is completed, I'd say all drivers are at an acceptable standard. Whatever your opinion of VB as a LCC, I don't know of anyone within the organisation that would check a newbie to line if he/she wasn't up to scratch. That's not to say however, that there were not (and will continue to be) those who get through their initial endorsement training with a comfortable margin - and those who barely scrape through by the skin of their teeth, thus requiring additional line training to address any issues.

[kiwi chick]

Stationair8

junior female instructor

Why did you say the instructor was female?

[Jabawocky]

KC
Thought you were smarter than that...

It costs no more to hire the pretty ones!:E

J:ok:

[kiwi chick]

Me's thinking that's wot he meant...


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :ugh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Stationair8]

Kiwi Chick, I just took a wild guess!

[All Spades]

Bunglerat,
I have nothing against VB per say. I do have respect for Branson's achievements and VB is one of them.
I am dead against paying for endorsements and VB started this low act.
Further the way in which I was told it was done at first( no idea what happens now) was not done by any other airline that I know of. The AOC only allowed for endorsing of employees to maintain standards. Getting the guy to pay his own way , then checking him and getting him to sign a contract so you could legally sign the papers is only a way of showing GA attitude ( shonky).
I suppose you work for them and I noted that you never bothered to mention those who don't make the standard.
Is there therefore only be a green band and a grey band.How big is the grey band?
No, I never applied, rejected,whatever. I was flying for much bigger operation when they started and still do.
I don't like what I see in Aust and I feel for the guys who have to pay far more than I did to learn to fly .When they finally get to what should be their professional Nirvana, they find that there is an entry fee.
I don't just single out VB ,it's all of them.
I am a believer in voting with your feet.

[Stationair8]

All spades, before you blow too much spoke up Branson's arse, go and have a read of the Branson the Unauthorised Autobiography, written by a well regarded journalist and then go and read the authorised Branson Autobiography version which you can purchase when you fly on Virgin Blue!
Best not to turn up to your interview at Virgin with the unauthorised autobiography under your arm.
A very interesting read including the details on Virgin Atlantic and near failure.

[Jet_A_Knight]

They will get to you soon after you get another job, usually within a few weeks.:hmm: