JAA ATPL from FAA ATP

[JJflyer]

Hello there.
Some time ago I answered a question posted on PPrune regarding a licence validation scheme on the basis of other than JAA member-state certificate.
I have a document where JAA ATPL Licence validation has been based on the following requirments:

-For an ATP Validation 1500 hours as PIC or SIC in an A/C that requires 2 pilots according to operational requirments or by type certificate while operating in airline enviroment.( This 1500h is in addition to whatever hours you might have had previously)

Now, can anyone confirm this information and provide me more information about how to proceed on validating my FAA licence.
Also what test am I required to do like medical or the airlaw...

JJ

[LeadingEdge]

I have the same problem,but i actually heard(read),that you will need 1000hrs multi crew time to convert.
Check out the JAA homepage for more news.
(www.JAA.nl)
let me know,if you have any news!!!

[JJflyer]

I have a lot of papers regarding Validation I just wanted to verify that the info I have is accurate..
Thanx for the website ... have visited that previously... not enough info on the subject.

JJ

[LeadingEdge]

You are right about the JAA website-a pretty poor work done there.Its a shame,if you compare it with FAA/NTSB.
There is another paper around,i guess at IFALPA,so if you are member,should be no problem to get it(its about the LHWG meeting in Sintra,about one year ago).
Anyways,keep me updated!!

[lifevest]

they told me last week :
1500hrs and US-ATPL it's fine.
To get a JAA-Conversion,you need to do the Air Law again,but that's about it.

[JJflyer]

Lifevest.... need a raft ???? it's on me ... I have not had better news in a long time...
Thankyou...

JJ

[This message has been edited by JJflyer (edited 07 November 1999).]

[JJflyer]

Oopps... Any Ideas how to proceed with the ATPL thing..
What is a good place to do it and comply with JAR's ?????????

I would prefer to do the conversion / validation in english... Ireland versus England???? or other countries that allow english to be used for the airlaw test...

JJ

[LeadingEdge]

JJflyer,could you provide me with any infos regarding conversion FAA/JAA,I am having a hard time getting the facts and news so far..

you can email me at

[email protected]
josef737@hotmailcom

[JJflyer]

Hello there leadingEdge...
I'll try my best. But I have unfortunately the same problem.
It is very hard to get any reliable info regarding this matter.

JJ

[LeadingEdge]

I tried out the FAA database,and found some stuff,but did not got any further..
anyone else out there,that might help?

[lifevest]

Just wait until everything is done there.
most of the authorities are pi***d about the JAA anyways,nobody knows whats going on.
For the Conversion it does not matter in wich country you go.the "new" language will be english anyways...

[LeadingEdge]

Next licensing harmonization meeting takes
place dec 14th this year in washington..

below some adresses for those that cant wait

AVIATION RULEMAKING ADVISORY COMMITTEE (ARAC)
********************Bulletin Board********************


Training and Qualifications Issues


Licensing Harmonization Working Group


Updated: 1/6/98


-----------------------------------------------------------

Co-Chair: Jim Curland, Allied Pilots Association
Phone: (540) 668-6395
FAX: (540) 668-6395
e-mail:

Co-Chair: Steinar Dahl, Association of European
Airlines
Phone:
FAX:
e-mail:

FAA Rep.: Warren Robbins
Phone: (202) 267-3842
FAX: (202) 267-5230
e-mail: [email protected]

ARM Liaison: Regina Jones
Phone: (202) 267-9822
FAX: (202) 267-5075
e-mail: [email protected]


Task 1. Determine the benefits of licensing harmonization.

Task 2. Define criteria for Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) conversion of Joint Aviation
Authorities (JAA) issued licenses, and for JAA
conversion of FAA issued licenses. Consider only
the Airline Transport Pilot license, except where
that license might convert to only a Commercial
pilot license. (As revised at 62 FR 66171,
December 17, 1997)

Task 3. Develop a recommendation, with justification, on
whether the product (i.e., a specific level of
license or certificate) should be harmonized, or
the process (i.e., the curriculum, prerequisite
experience, length of training, etc.) should be
harmonized.

(a) If recommending that the product should be
harmonized, develop a matrix of essential
requirements for the FAA and JAA to impose on
license holders of the other in order to convert
licenses.

(b) If recommending that the process should be
harmonized, develop a matrix of specific
differences and how those differences should be
equalized.

(c) Make specific recommendations about which FAA
regulations or Joint Aviation Requirements should
be changed to achieve the recommended actions.
Any recommendations requiring changes to Title 14
of the Code of Federal Regulations must be
forwarded to the FAA for consideration of
rulemaking priority, resource allocation, and
additional tasking to ARAC to develop rulemaking,
as appropriate.

Task 4. Review the current standards of 14 CFR sections
61.75 and 61.77 as part of the overall task. In
light of this review, recommend appropriate
guidance material that could later be incorporated
into advisory material or an appendix to 14 CFR
part 61 that contains the criteria developed in
task 3(a) or (b) above.


Members

No information available


FAA Internal Team Members

No information available


Future Meetings

NOTE: Attendance at working group meetings is limited to
working group members only. If anyone else wishes to attend
this meeting, please contact the working group chair.

1/13-15/98 At Washington, DC

2/10-12/98 At Hoofddorp, The Netherlands

[LeadingEdge]

here goes another one from AOPA.Seems that a lot of work has to be done!
JAA-FAA Harmonization of Flight Crew Licensing (Pilot Certification)
Requirements

The issue:

For years, the European national civil aviation authorities have worked to harmonize the existing
patchwork of national aviation regulations into a single standard for all signatory nations under the
European Union. This work has come under the auspices of the Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA)
resulting in a European standard for civil aviation regulation known as the Joint Aviation
Requirements (JARs). As the JARs continued to develop in Europe, the US Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA), under direction from the White House, has worked toward harmonizing US
aviation regulations with the new European JARs. Preliminary efforts focussed on aircraft
certification, maintenance, and operations standards. More recently the emphasis has shifted to
harmonizing flight crew licensing requirements between the United States and Europe. The Flight
Crew Licensing Harmonization Working Group, under the Aviation Rulemaking Advisory
Committee (ARAC), was charged with developing recommendations to facilitate flight crew
licensing harmonization between the JAA and FAA. AOPA has been an active participant in this
group. The JAA regulations for pilot certification, included in Joint Aviation Requirements – Flight
Crew Licensing (JAR-FCL), are scheduled to take effect in Europe on July 1, 1999.

The importance to our members:

The new JAR-FCL, due to take effect on July 1, 1999, does not contain any provisions for the
conversion of US pilot certificates to the new European JAA certificates. This means that US pilots
would not be allowed to fly aircraft registered in any European country since pilot privileges are
tied to the national registry of aircraft. Similarly, because there are no provisions for the conversion
of a US pilot certificate to a JAA pilot’s license, European students who come to the US to learn
to fly would be unable to convert their US certificates to JAA certificates upon their return home.
This would have a significant impact on the US flight training industry, which relies heavily on
foreign students.

Significant provisions:

To understand the issues surrounding FCL harmonization, it is important to make the distinction
between validation and conversion of airmen certificates. A validation of a foreign pilot license is a
temporary authorization to fly aircraft of national registry based upon the foreign pilot’s license
originally issued to the airman. For example, a US pilot planning to fly German-registered aircraft in
Europe may seek out a temporary validation of a US pilot certificate from the German LBA (FAA)
to fly these aircraft. This is solely an authorization and is predicated upon the currency of the
underlying US pilot certificate. A conversion, on the other hand, involves actually issuing a new
certificate. For example, a US pilot could approach the same German LBA to seek a permanent
German pilot license. Once the conversion is complete, the two licenses are independent of one
another and either can be dropped. If both are maintained, the respective currency requirements of
each license or certificate must be adhered to in order to exercise the privileges of the certificate. A
description of the existing U.S. and European validation and conversion provisions follows:

Under current FAA regulations, a JAA pilot license of any level (private, commercial, or
ATP) will convert only to a FAA private pilot certificate.
Current JAA regulations require a bilateral agreement between the United States and the
issuing country in Europe for conversion of a U.S. pilot certificate to a national license in
Europe. There is no similar provision for conversion to a JAA license.
JAA flight crew licensing requirements permit validation of FAA pilot certificates with full
privileges of the corresponding JAR-FCL license, though the process can be difficult.
FAA regulations technically do not allow validation of JAR-FCL licenses, but they do
provide for the issuance of a special purpose authorization for flying U.S. registered aircraft
in air carrier operations.

Discussions are complicated by the fact that there are two distinct approaches taken to pilot
training in the United States and Europe. The JAR-FCL has two training systems for acquiring pilot
licenses and ratings — an integrated training program (ab initio), as well as a step-by-step
modular training program. Both JAA training systems emphasize formal theoretical knowledge
training along with skill testing. In sharp contrast, the FAA system of airmen certification
emphasizes skill testing, which individualizes the training and improves theoretical knowledge.
These philosophical differences make any direct comparison of the licensing programs impractical
and complicate efforts to harmonization regulations.

AOPA position:

AOPA believes that United States and European licenses should be converted or validated in
either direction with a minimum of additional requirements. Both United States and European pilots
have comparable safety records and, though training philosophies differ significantly, the end
product remains essentially the same. In the absence of specific language in the JAR-FCL
permitting validation and conversion, AOPA encourages the FAA to negotiate bilateral agreements
with each of the European Union countries to allow for conversion of US airmen certificates to
European national certificates.

Status:

The final meeting of the FAA-JAA Flight Crew Licensing Harmonization Working Group was held
in February 1999. While the group failed to reach agreement on many issues surrounding airmen
validations and conversions, the groundwork was laid for further talks between the FAA and JAA.
Talks continue between the JAA and the FAA on the development of bilateral agreements between
the United States and individual national civil aviation authorities. Currently, there is a JAA Notice
of Proposed Amendment (NPA-FCL 10) out for public comment, with comments due by May 31,
1999. None of the validation or conversion issues are addressed in this document. AOPA
continues to press for bilateral agreements that would enable the validation and conversion of US
airmen certificates to European pilot licenses.

992105

[JJflyer]

Well then...

JJ