Cyclone Helen

[RAAFASA]

Anyone in Darwin at the moment with an update on the cyclone? I heard they are closing the airport, but can't find anything on the news yet. (I'm ex DN ATC, so just being nosy). Don't want to call the TWR as I imagine they may be busy with wx diversions if anything is flying.:bored:

[CoodaShooda]

Helen went Category 2 (gusts to 130 km/h) just before landfall around Channel Point a short time ago, heading in an easterly direction.

Expected to weaken now its over land.

We're getting a bit of wet and windy weather at the moment. Shelters were opened and employers advised to send staff home around 1800 local. Haven't heard anything about the airport.


Expect some gales around midnight but looks like a repeat of all our cyclone warnings post-Tracy - plenty of suburban panicking but ultimately no big deal.


Flooding? Now that's another question. :{

A good night to be on the ground and indoors, nontheless.

[RAAFASA]

Thanks CoodaShooda,
Went through the big "Ingrid" build up a couple of years ago, similar result. Hope you stay safe and dry.:)

[bob55]

Virgin, Jetstar and Tiger have all cancelled their flights tonight. QFA from Sydney made it to DN but won't depart until 8am. Some of the Redeye flights will be coming in about lunch time tomorrow, at this stage.

The tower is still open at this stage. Doesn't look like it will get severe and close enough to close the tower and airport completely.

[tinpis]

What do those wallys do with all the candles baked beans and batteries ? :uhoh:

[ACMS]

QFA from Sydney made it to DN but won't depart until 8am.

A QF A/C made it in to DN and they left the aircraft there all night with a Cyclone approaching?

Gee they must have extra machines lying around or a good insurance policy, or maybe they're just plain dumb.

[BrazDriver]

Think the QF boys have forgotten the days of the cyclone party, and how to have one!

[tinpis]

27 years here now and that was as good as yer get for yer money :ooh:
The bugger of a thing didnt brreak down over land just kept coming at force 2.
Hate to be in the sights of a force 5 you could kiss yer arse goodbye absolutely convinced of that.
Some trees (palms) down at chez tin and a 10inch dia. treated pine log support post for a shade sail snapped orf like a carrot....
Wadda bloody mess....:(

[Arm out the window]

I thought the thread was going to be about the Kiwi prime minister from the title!
Hope you guys in the path of it don't cop too much. We got Larry through here nearly 2 years ago now, not much fun.

[schlong hauler]

So, it wasn't a good blow by Helen.

[gigs]

Per base Mgr???????????????????????????

[The Voice]

eek Tinny ..

the bloke and I are swimming in the torrents down here on the not so Gold Coast, ain't much fun here either!!

Any pics?

I can't even begin to imagine what our home's going to look like when we get back next week!!

yay

[CoodaShooda]

Sorry to hear that tinny.

Nil damage to report from cooda mansions out at Parmy.

Seems to be more trees/branches down the closer you get to Darwin.

BOM now suggesting she may reform in the Gulf of Carpentaria and do a 180 back this way. :eek:

If so, that's a potential Cat 3 or 4 by the time she returns. :mad:

Hope they're wrong.

[Offchocks]

ACMS:
"A QF A/C made it in to DN and they left the aircraft there all night with a Cyclone approaching?
Gee they must have extra machines lying around or a good insurance policy, or maybe they're just plain dumb."

There was a fair bit of rain and wind but it was not that bad to send the aircraft somewhere else, certainly not as bad as the typhoons you see in HKG.

[Pinky the pilot]

Tinpis, Glad you and all others there OK! I wonder how the old 'tree house' in Henry St. took it?

It withstood Max back in 1980 (?) ok and that one had me worried a bit for a while!!

[tinpis]

Pinky I was in town for MAX in 81
Darwhine was only half the size them days and there was no Palmerston
I dont recall it being as nearly as persistent as this bugger was.

[ACMS]

Offchock: Maybe but Virgin, Tiger and Jetstar apparently cancelled their flights?
So either they are wimps or QF are cowboys?
They can't both be right.
I can understand why they might decide to fly in to Dn and take a look, but to leave an expensive machine sitting on a tarmac where blowing debri could quite easily cause expensive damage is a bit irresponsible.

[Dog One]

Understand from a colleague in Darwin that Airnorth operated normal schedule to Bali last night with a ETA DN 1.30 am local. Also QF flight was
stranded due no refuellers - all having being sent home. All public transport and taxi's ceased running after 11 pm. Understand that Tiger operated as well, although a couple of hours behind schedule.

[ACMS]

Well in that case QF are lucky there was no damage to their Jet.

The news showed a lot of up rooted ( big ) trees in DN and a lot of flooding.
Must have been quite a wind blowing.

[Di_Vosh]

ACMS
Well in that case QF are lucky there was no damage to their Jet.
The news showed a lot of up rooted ( big ) trees in DN and a lot of flooding.
Must have been quite a wind blowing.

Maybe it was a case of Journo's being journo's and exaggerating? (been known to happen)

There WERE some trees uprooted, but the damage wasn't that bad. Some blackouts but it was pretty much business as usual in Darwin by 10:00am.

Although some GA companies evacuated, the GA apron was pretty full overnight (all a/c tied down, of course). AFAIK there wasn't any aircraft damage.

DIVOSH!

[Moniker]

I have heard that Jetstar pax who were on the canx flight into DRW lost that airfare and were required to purchase another ticket.

Surely not.

[Stationair8]

So ACMS, you give up flying when the wind gets above light and variable?

So are Qantas pilots regarded as cowboys when they fly into YMML on a hot Northerly day and it is gusting 50 kts? Likewise places such as Hobart, Adelaide or Perth on windy days. I reckon the Qantas and Scarenorth boys probably had a fair few options if they had to divert due WX.
Some of the newer "ace" Virgin captains don't seem to have had much experience in bad weather,or exposure to it, you only had to see the way some of them carried on in the crappy weather Christmas week on the East coast.

Perhaps you could spend a day with King Island Airlines and go down to windy on King Island when its gusting up to 70 kts in a Chieftain.

[flyingins]

Moniker,
Definitely not. All Jetstar passengers (ADL-DRW, MEL-DRW & BNE-DRW flights were all cancelled) were re-accomodated on other flights the next day or evening at the latest for no extra cost and in many cases on Qantas services. In addition to the scheduled service a second, ad-hoc MEL-DRW Jetstar flight was also dispatched on Saturday evening.

Those passengers who did not live at the port of origin were accomodated overnight.

All of the passengers were polite, friendly and were happy to be safe and dry in another part of the country.

With regard to Jetstar, always best to believe about 5% of the rumours.

[ChickenLips]

Thanks CoodaShooda,
Went through the big "Ingrid" build up a couple of years ago, similar result. Hope you stay safe and dry.
What years were you there RAAFASA? I was loving it through the '90s
CL

[RAAFASA]

Hi Chicken Lips,
2003-2005. Loved the work, but not a huge fan of the climate!

[ACMS]

Stationair: been to King in a Chieftain and a Fokker many times in winds soo strong they would blow the F27 props around.

However that's not the issue.

Darwin is not setup for strong winds, crap all over the tarmac will get blown around and I have seen many times aircraft ( 727's DC-9's ) damaged by ground equipment. Indeed in Mel about 20 years ago An and Tn 727's were moved around the tarmac by strong winds. A Tn 727 actually jumped the chocks and trundled quite a way down the taxyway under it's own control !!

In PER a Tn 727 had it's airstairs badly damaged by a baggage trolly that blew around the corner from An.

King has a lot of strong winds and are quite setup for it. Most crap is nailed down !!

Anyway, good to see it was a non-event.

p.s. the Airmanship of the QF crew was never in doubt, i know they wouldn't have landed in DN if the wx was not suitable.
The issue as i see it is: QF ( ops ) were cowboys for sending the Aircraft there to sit on the ground for 8 hours with a Cyclone approaching.

cheers

ACMS

[VH-ABC]

MUNT,

I know of at least one VB flight that was cancelled at the time, I was supposed to be on it. I tried to get put on another carrier, but all were cancelling flights the night the cyclone was due to pass through.

[Stationair8]

In my first year of commercial flying I met a guy who flew for Connellan Airways, and he told me about trying to get back into Darwin on Christmas Eve 1974. He did a couple of ILS's in the Heron and when he got visual each time the x-wind was to great to attempt a landing so he diverted to the old Katherine aerodrome and sat it out overnight. He reckons that engineer(complete with a carton of grog) on the ground got a tug onto the other Heron and kept it into wind during the cyclone, must have been a brave lad. The Heron and engineer both survived and the Heron's HF radio was about the only means of communication out of Darwin.
This guy also said that they operated the DC-3 single pilot, and they used anyone with a pilot's licence as radio operators in the weeks after the cyclone to get things moving.
Imagine CASA letting that happen today! Are yes we will need at least a months notice and the fee will be these many dollars!!

[ACMS]

Stationair: I was in DRW during Cyclone Tracy in 74. Not a fun experience.

[Moniker]

Interesting Flyingins, one pax I know of slipped thru' that net .. he was made to purchase another fare after losing the fare for the canx flight.

[Dog One]

Darwin airport has improved over the years, and cyclone preparation plans are reviewed and upgraded from experience's gained world wide. I notice that all equipment, ie containers etc are stored off the tarmac together with GS equipment. The location is down by bay 10, well away from the main tarmac. There are now new tarmac procedures when active TS are within 5 km of the airport.

The DN TAF was no worse than similar TAF's for King Is in Bass Strait in winter. Suitable alternates were available, and my understanding was that the 767 would have returned, but the refuelling services had closed down.

There needs to be a bit more co-ordination between the government services, because they pulled the buses and taxi's off the road whilst there were two inbound flights.

[RENURPP]

As soon as a cyclone is named people change their attitude completely, almost like panic sets in.

Although a "cyclone" must be treated with extreme caution as they can change in intensity reasonably quickly. The forecast for the evening was not that bad.
DARWIN (YPDN)
TAF AMD YPDN 040956Z 041212
33035G65KT 5000 SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT005 BKN012
FM18 27035G65KT 5000 SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT005 BKN012
FM00 24020G50KT 9999 LIGHT SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT008 BKN030
FM06 24015G30KT 9999 LIGHT SHOWERS OF RAIN SCT010 BKN030
TEMPO 1212 VRB25G65KT 1000 THUNDERSTORMS WITH RAIN BKN007 SCT015CB
RMK
T 25 24 23 24 Q 995 994 991 993


The cyclone, had crossed the coast south of Darwin and therefore was extremely unlikely to increase in intensity, the wind was forecast to GUST to 65 kts. Keep in mind that the standard forecast for Darwin is gusts 45kts in TS's.
Tindal 154 nm down the track was OK as was Gove as an alternate.

The main danger for aircraft was always going to be flying debris.
I don't see flying debris as a major concern at Darwin airport. There are very few if any trees, the ground equipment is secured and not an issue, not with gusts of 65 kts. Its not "Tracy" where fridges etc were being blown around doing major damage, we are talking about some trees being up-rooted and branches coming off. That’s how the BOM describe a cat 1 or 2 cyclone, damage to trees and minor damage to infrastructure.

Although a lot of trees did come down and that caused some damage to infrastructure, the wind itself didn't cause any damage to buildings as far as i am aware.

The wind was pretty much up and down the runway centerline. Wind shear???, taxiing??? Apart from that I see it as reasonable.


From the BOM website http://www.bom.gov.au/weather/cyclone/about/about-tropical-cyclones.shtml
Cat 1 Tropical Cyclone Less than 125 km/h
Gales Minimal house damage. Damage to some crops, trees and caravans. Boats may drag moorings.
Cat 2 Tropical Cyclone 125 - 164 km/h
Destructive winds Minor house damage. Significant damage to signs, trees and caravans. Heavy damage to some crops. Risk of power failure. Small boats may break moorings.