EasyJet and Ryanair. Is there room for both?

[BongleBear]

Alright guys, i have this discussion quite a bit in work and was wondering what you all thought.

It was always the way that easy would fly into the main airport of the city, (understandably) charging more than ryr who would fly to the smaller airport just outside. A good example being Paris. However now ryr really now seem to be going for the larger airports- more direct competition than before. The new routes (and even bases) announced over the last year could spell the beginning of the end for one of them, in my opinion. Routes like madrid (and as a base), the canaries, malaga, belfast, nantes etc... and i understand there will be many more to follow.

So what do you think about it? Is there room for both low cost giants? Will ryanairs model work with larger overheads or will they push easy out with lower prices?

Discuss. But don't fight. And no swearing please, especially you mr o'leary.

[frontlefthamster]

Competition is good for business, and both Michael and Stelios knew that.

Sadly, Stelios started his business in a state in which ownership and management of your own business are not well-thought-of, so he's had to let go; Michael started his somewhere else so he gets to keep his toys.

(Yes, he'd have been a disaster in pizzas, hire cars, cruises and the like too!!).

[AbeamPoints]

I really wouldn't waste your breath talking about the future existence of two of Europes most profitable, fastest growing and dynamic airlines. Its the existence of the rest of the shorthaul competition and bucket 'n spade brigade that merits the crystal ball treatment.

The TUI/Last Choice and MightUnravel/JMC clusterclunks seem to believe that mergering 4 stricken companies into 2 and ordering a load of 787's will turn around their fortunes. Which is unlikley as:

a) The 787 is one of the least de-risked new aircraft in the last 50 years that is highyly unlikely to to quite what it does on paper in the real world reliably.

b) The Era of the package holiday with its roots in Billy Butlins format are dead and buried as even the Northern peoples now have broadband and the ability to make up their own holiday as suits.


As for sheduled point to point EU shorthaul then within 2 years no airline anywhere in Europe will be able to touch the connection and breadth and coverage offered by RYR or EZY. Sure some people will want a more premium product on certain routes at certain times. But most don't.

In the coming recession a great many unprofitable scheduled airlines that have been around a long time will simply go bust. If the market contracts by even a paltry 5% then its not going to be EZY or RYR going to the wall is it?

[Sean Dillon]

FCA and TCX are hardly stricken companies!

B787 marks a long-haul product, both of which EZY and RYR don't do! Hence it's accepted that those guys have the short haul market.

[172driver]

I'd say, yes, there is, as they offer different products.

RYR: largely out-of-the-way airports and connecting major centers mainly to second and third tier cities/regions. Admittedly, they've changed course somewhat recently, but the vast majority of their routes fit the above description. On the service front: very restrictive baggage allowances, nightmare to deal with, definitely cultivate the 'cattle-truck' ambiance.

EZY: connecting major hubs in Europe and additionally holiday destinations. High frequency on major routes. Fly into 'traditional' airports (not always a plus, I hasten to add). Service: lightyears ahead of RYR, better baggage allowance, good flexibility when rebooking. At least try to do it with a smile.

In any case, I wouldn't be too worried about either of the two. The flying remnants of the package holiday business, however, are a different matter altogether.....

[niknak]

Easy - accepted almost everywhere by every airport.

Ryanair - recently told to F*$£k off by Milan and only accepted by airports desperate to increase their pax figures with no direct financial reward from passenger taxes:rolleyes:...:confused:

[PAXboy]

AbeamPoints has it right. The interesting game is to watch the legacy carriers morph into ever larger mega-corporates (and then get too big) and the former charters who have only just finished changing their biz model and are now having to do it again.

Both EZY and RYR are going to continue to do their thing for the next ten years before any major change in either of them. All the changes in short and medium haul are going to be in the other two categories.

[Metro man]

There will be only two kinds of airline in future.

Low cost, dirt cheap, no service such as Ryan Air.
Premium, full service, high fare such as SQ, CX, EK

Low cost may make inroads in long haul on certain routes eg Oasis Hong Kong and Air Asia X.

Full service short haul will be restricted to premium business and holiday destinations. London - Geneva will support business class and high fares, Luton - Alicante wont.

Inefficient airlines such as Alitalia will have to turn around or go under.

[TheSwede]

EZY will probably be able to operate some rutes in direct competition with RYR as the number of "never again passengers" with RYR increases.

RYR will propabley loose market shares on there west european rutes but gaine a huge number of passengers in new markets where price is more important then service.

The majority of european passengers still uses full service airlines. I think that EZY with a more costomer friendly attitude has a higher chance of louring these passengers onto there flights then RYR.

I guess that 50% of the smaller low cost airlines will disapere as companies on there own in the next few years. Who will go first? Germanwings, Smartwings, Air Berlin, Niki, Aegean, Air One, Centralwings, SkyEurope, Clickair, Helvetic, FlyBe, Jet2, Transavia, Wizzair, Vueling, Sterling, BMIbaby, TUIfly or Nowegian?

[Musket90]

Agree with abeampoints regarding the two strongest. It's the others, trying to match their product, but with only local identification who will have more challenges. EZY and FR are globally recognised names but give different products and having flown several times with both cannot fault them. Just know what to expect if things go wrong, whoever you fly with.

[HZ123]

There have been 450 start ups from the regional airports (UK) for the LC carriers in the UK since 2005. Clearly there will be probably as many new starts in the next 2 years if all goes according to plan. The balance of sucess surely lies with the fuel prices and inflation prospects, that is what will dictate actual profitable growth. As some have said there is still yet to be some casualties.

[Sean Dillon]

The worse thing that happend to PPRuNe, the usual hanger-ons and spotters who think they know all about running an airline and holiday company...

[TheSwede]

Is there a point? Is it that you do not know what to say? Is it that you do not have any idea as well?

[BongleBear]

sean you idiot, this is one of the best things about pprune, bringing pilots, crew and others together to discuss the industry.
i know absolutely nothing about the running of a football club but it doesn't stop me talking about it at any opportunity.
i'd stick to music if i were you.

The worse thing that happend to PPRuNe, the usual hanger-ons and spotters.....

The worse thing that happend to www.seandillon.co.uk would be you.

b.bear