Pacific Blue.....Watch this space

[Knurled Knob]

It is sad to see an airline ruined by incompetent management.

The recent tail scrape in SYD (the second, this year) is the end result of the steady erosion of morale, terms and conditions and standards at Pacific Blue.

J B the MD at PB recently sent his staff a letter congratulating the pilots, cabin crew, engineers and management on all the great achievements that were made in the past 12 months. He also hinted that the staff should "watch this space" as further exciting developments take place.

Behind the scenes though, crew morale is at rock bottom, sickness levels are through the roof and pilots and cabin crew are resigning at an alarming rate. (30 pilots this year alone have left from a total pilot group of 90)

Why I hear you ask?

Maybe it is the fact that after 4 years of operation the crew are still contractors with Rishworth and Contract Aircrew when they were all promised full time employment after the first year of operation.

Maybe it is the fact that PB pilots are amongst the lowest paid 737 operators in the region. (by the way they recently enjoyed a duty pay increase of $0.20 / hour, yes thats 20 cents!!! the first increase in three years), there is no pension, the new day off payment ($500 for a Cpt) does not count if the crew member works into a dayoff due to a disrupt.

Maybe it is the fact that coincident with the start of domestic operations approx 2 months ago, the Fatigue Management System was revised, reducing min rest to 10 hours and allowing a midnight finish prior to a day off and a 0500 start post a day off. The roster is to provide at least 6 days free of duty per month, and crew are being roster to fly back of the clock international flights then having to report on min rest for 5 sector domestic duties time and time again, that is of course if they actually get to work their rostered duty as due to the levels of sickness and disruption roster changes are a daily event.

Maybe it is the fact that first officers have been threatened that if they attend other job interviews their commands will be held back indefinitely.

Maybe it is the fact that after all the hard work that JB was congratulating the crews for. He could even be bothered to put on a christmas party for his staff.

Where are the pilot management while all this is going on??? Oh they are on leave. The only one manning the phone is one of the "old boys" from the good ole Ansett NZ days who just these past few hours sent the pilots an email saying. Fellas maybe you should watch that DVD we sent you about tail scrapes again....you know the one we sent out last time we had a tail scrape. Yeah that should do the trick. :ok:

Funny how in the past few weeks the contact details for the Jetstar pilot recruitment manager have appeared in all the crew rooms.

Watch this space indeed JB!!!!:D

[horserun]

Maybe it is the fact that first officers have been threatened that if they attend other job interviews their commands will be held back indefinitely.


Get the union in. Don't stand for that.

[KRUSTY 34]

6 days off per month!!!!

Chr!st! How low can you go? Not to mention off course the other disgraceful erosion of basic workers rights. As for the Xmas party for staff, well the only "Real" staff would be management, after all the people that make P.B. are merely contractors, and that is Rishworth's concern not theirs.

I'd say that for some time now P.B. has probably been viewed by many as a training ground at best. The tragedy is for those who truely believed in the company and have been led astray and let down by the self serving cretins at the top.

The continuation of this type of manergerial bastardry in the face of a world wide shortage of drivers (especially Jet drivers) simply beggers belief!

My prediction is that PB will be gone in 6 months. Get out and get your just deserts boys and girls. There are "real" companies out there that want you as part of their organisation and are willing to pay the price for having you.

[Knurled Knob]

Indeed tiger-palm why would anyone put up with it. Many are not and are leaving. The management are banking on the fact that there will always be those who want above all else to live in NZ. They are also hoping to get guys and gals who are looking to 'come home' from the desert etc. Funny thing is we have already had a few of these pilots start with us and most are not even completing their line training before they tender their resignation!
For any potential pac blue pilots out there think long and hard. You will have to pay up front for your rating (no salary sacrifice here), and at the end of the day keep in mind that an F/O at Virgin Blue will be taking home more than a Captain at PB.
Why bother.

[Looking]

What a tragic thread this is. If this is true, the airline will surely go bust or "scrape, bang boom!".

I agree that you guys should ge the union in.

Aviation is getting sader and sader.

[romansandal]

I hate to interupt a good old fashioned stake burning...But I have spoken to many pacblue pilots who really enjoy the job. Most of them seem to appreciate the opportunity to fly the 800 and live in NZ. It would be nice to hear from some of them on here...

I certainly agree that the company does leave a few things to be desired and hence my application will remain unpenned. However, I do think that this post provides merely one opinion (which we are certainly all entitled to), of which I have heard many to the contrary.

I have no affiliation with pacblue whatsoever.

Happy New Years everyone.
RS

[Kiwiguy]

My prediction is that PB will be gone in 6 months.


Hmm this would be a great time then to start a new domestic airline.

Wasn't that Branson's line ? :8

[Dashim]

Quote:
My prediction is that PB will be gone in 6 months.
From what I can see I would very much doubt PB would be gone in six months, more likely we'll be seeing a great deal more of them in the future.
This is nothing more than a few teething problems from a rapidly expanding Airline. Both Air New Zealand and Qantas have gone through similiar problems in the past.
Knurled Knob, you are misrepresenting the facts regarding the days off. PB pilots get rostered 9 days a month off with the ability to work IPD days IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO down to a minimum number of 6. Of course more days off a month would be greatfully recieved by those Pilots who are there for the lifestyle I'm sure!

[KRUSTY 34]

I don't know Dashim, If they keep paying Turbo-prop wages (those now being touted as whoefully insufficient in the current environment), not to mention the sub-standard conditions, then something will have to give.

If PB can continue to find suitably qualified people willing to bend over and grab their ankles, well good luck to them. Meanwhile the rest of us just stand back and shake our heads!

[Jabawocky]

Probably should just keep out of this, its none of my business really, but just what is the pay for PB 737 crew compared to say the VB & J* crew?

Approximate or % of will do....

J:ok:

[Contract Con]

Jaba,

DJ F/O pay is more than PacBro Command pay, if you do the sums with the exchange rate. And that is without the 9% Aussie super.

Cheers,

Con:ok:

[MrAnderson]

If this is true and Pilots are returning to VB, then surely they would be starting again in the RHS. So one good thing they are home again and not missing out on any less Johnny C.

The other side of this coin indicates they are prepared to leave their command/seniority? behind because of the issues raised.

All things being equal which in this thread, it is clearly not, the management are failing to address core issues....morale which relates to paying your staff industry rates, training and safety systems which relates to paying your training staff staff industry rates, credible rosters that provide lifestyle or credible financial incentives and employing or contracting people that are qualified and paying them industry rates, :ugh: the list is exhaustive thats why they the managers can proudly say they run budget airlines, cheap seats generated by cheap managers who fail to see the value of quality staff :oh: sorry you are contractors.

The options are out their boys and girls let the management explain themselves at their next round table AGM when suddenly their work force is in a state of disrepair.

Do the contractors have seniority....anybody?

[Knurled Knob]

MrAnderson to answer your Q, no there is no seniority system in place with the contractors at PB.

It is stunning that the managment team have not issued any reassuring statements to the staff given the past weeks' 'indescretion' in Sydney
and the articles over the past few days in 'The Press' newspaper regarding the fact that the OTP is woeful and a large number of passengers have been stranded. The GM made a statement to the press that the disruption was due to unscheduled maitanence!!

Thats a nice way to say 'one of our aircraft suffered significant damage' (possibly due to a fatigued and frustrated pilot)

Maybe its time Mr Godfrey took another look at the way PB is being run (or not) as the case may be. Your average joe public would not have any idea that the seat they purchased to fly (for eg.) Bne to Nan is operated by Pacific Blue and that PB are a seperate company whose pilots and cabin crew are all contractors working for significanty less than their Virgin counterparts. All Mr Joe Public sees is a red plane with the Virgin brand splashed across the menus and digi players onboard, so when this flight is canned at the last minute with not so much as a ' sorry about that' from the contracted ground staff it does huge damage to 'The Brand' that the marketing gurus hold so precious. Its not so much PB that gets a bad wrap but Virgin.

[WLGHilton]

J B the MD at PB recently sent his staff a letter congratulating the pilots, cabin crew, engineers and management on all the great achievements that were made in the past 12 months.

JB..! That old dinosaur never really managed to get his mind above Bristol Freighters! Sat around Ansett NZ proudly re-arranging the office (buzz phrases included) while the airline went down the gurgler. Put this one out to pasture and you may be able to save your airline.

[MrAnderson]

So not only do they treat you as contractors they treat the product with the same contempt...sad for all concerned, my only hope is the red plane doesn't feature again the way it has scraaaaapppppppppped and skiddddddddded it s way to public notoriety. Go you budget managers and go your LC model, seems to be working fine.

J* is employing and from what I understand you are actually employed and paid accordingly.

[Capt_CheeseDick]

JQ Details?
Yes. See your PB Pilots Forum website. It's all there.
It's all true and very sad to see, especially when there was so much opportunity to do otherwise, instead of screwing your best asset - workers at the coalface, with an FMS that creates the very thing it's said to avoid and a disgraceful rise in DTA (20 cents)... etc etc
Many Ex Ansett NZ people widespread in Management (and it shows!:ugh:) has the workers worried, given their track record.

[WLGHilton]

Like I said, dinosaurs, they are stuck in the Ansett time warp. Jet Connect has the same AN problems too. Not only industrially, but they are also operationally inept as well. Move them on or you are history. Plenty of jobs for 737 pilots in Japan.

[MrAnderson]

So this group of highly specialised line managers are employed? By who?

The whole airline, whoops LCC group, is operated by contractors...is it not?

So if they, being the managers are x ansett NZ, the one and the very same that delivered lock out notices whilst the airline shuffled deck chairs on the titanic a short while back, how do they pass the fit and proper person scrutiny that your CAA have in place.

This all seems very country cousin time, knee slapping stuff yo all.

[WLGHilton]

Yup the current GM is ex AN NZ ops manager. The current PB ops manager gleefully handed out a few lockout notices in some sort of management capacity and the guy who owns one of the contract companies (currently employing PBs pilots) was the line ops manager of AN NZ. He orchestrated a fair bit of AN's demise too. All a bit cosy really. They all sat on the deck as the ship sank, congratulatng each other on their sucesses. To this day they still believe that they paid no part in it and as a result believe that they have recut the key to good airline management :}.

[MrAnderson]

aipai

1000 TT, 100 multi NO TURBINE who have links with their DADDYS!!!! from years gone by!!


Hmmmmmmm....
It seems all very well to help people out by way of contacts and associates but surely the airline has minimum stds and requirements before the nepotisim stoops to the level suggested.

Also if this is true surely the "sons or daughters" have to have had successfully completed a type rating by an approved organisation.

Perhaps the fish are swimming here and the size is questionable or your source is just sauce, of the tomato brand.

[Single Flasher]

As a LCC Captain for a European Airline I read with interest the above thread, particularly as I too would one day like to return to Godzone.
Can anyone please give me an accurate reflection of take home pay for 1 month, including flight pay etc. I assume there is no pension.
I am on less money today than I was on 6 years ago, and that is not even allowing for inflation!! Sounds like a world over problem.

SF

[Nils Taurus Excretus]

Why is it that in airlines they take people who may be able to run an aircraft and crew well, then for some unknown reason place them into 'management' roles with no proff of their ability or aptitude, no training and/or previous/proven business expertise?! Then they act surprised when they prove to be well out of their depth!

Hiring people to run a multimillion dollar business should not be a matter of "I was mates with ...."

So called 'Management Experience' from a failed airline should cast serious doubt about ones suitability for further management positions .. not so down in NZ it appears. If anyone still believes the incumbents are competent then be glad you are not a shareholder. It sounds like the Board needs to ask some serious questions and fast.

NTE

[Jet Man]

Single Flasher

Capt Gross $141,000 pa + approx $1000 pm DTA (tend to spend quite a bit of this DTA down route)
Depending on how you work for PB (Rishworth = Self employed, Conair = permanent employee of Conair) your tax may vary slightly.
Take home pay approx $8000-9000 pm.

[WLGHilton]

So called 'Management Experience' from a failed airline should cast serious doubt about ones suitability for further management positions .. not so down in NZ it appears. If anyone still believes the incumbents are competent then be glad you are not a shareholder. It sounds like the Board needs to ask some serious questions and fast.Interesting point as PB have, through the old boys network, hired Jetconnects old Ops manager into some sort of management position. He's also another ex AN who, without any system, turned JC's operation into the complete shambles that they are still trying to unravel today. Think of the millions that this one smoked while dabbling in management. Though to be fair he wasn't trained as a manager, just got there because he seemed a nice enough bloke and was a checkie, a good one at that too. But clearly out of his depth and poorly developed in a management role. Word is that some of the ex JC guys, who left to avoid the AN cartel, have re-interviewed with their old company to escape this band of brothers that seems to have followed them. All they need now is nepotism to complete all the sins within this airline's management. The word is that there will be a large exodus of Captains in the very near future that they haven't hedged for. New Zealand aviation desreves better than this. Time to stand in front of the mirror for some of these people, including the contractors, and consider the role they play in the safety of this airline because you cant always blame your pilots for finding a better job. Keep up with the swing of the pendulum or move on.

[MrAnderson]

Whilst everything is ticking along nicely no questions get asked - However, when flight safety comes into the equation...standby for a few managerial vacancies.

Tiger-Palm....
Perhaps you could elaborate or is this the crystal ball of hope that you hold whilst crossing the Pacific in the dead of night?

Well put NTE:D and WLGhilton thanks for the background info.:ok:

This makes decisions and advice for all prospectives a little clearer...does anyone have a rough idea of hours per month duty and flight and is this consistent or does it waiver around the office corridor crawlers. I understand you have a few within your numbers and some of whom were 89 ers that virgin australia wouldn't employ.

[#1AHRS]

"Ansett Blue" sure has a nice ring to it...

[time4change]

Sad thing is it could be a great Great Job, PB has great crews Tech and Cabin. But they are treated like 4th class citizens paid crap, feed food (well it was once) than you couldnt feed a animal. And that complete Idiot JB cant see why people leave (whats that noise homer simpsom makes). When planes are parked up someone In aussie might take notice or maybe when someone is hurt. NZ CAA should be shot they approved the FMS but choose to do nothing shame on you CAA.

[rescue 1]

Like all employees of any profession, people are quick to point the finger at management when things aren't quite going there way. Just like small children or teenagers when they are grounded blame there parents...

Still, perception is reality. Nobody likes Mr Dickson, yet the business continues to deliver record profits. PB is expanding, yet I read here of similar management issues...

All LCC's (JC, PB, VB, J*) are facing the same issues in the current market. LCC's have had there day in the sun and they will need to make changes to succeed.

Play the ball and not the man, and things might just get better.

[NoN1]

The culture of an airline is set from the top down, and a healthy culture relies on open, honest and clear communication, mutual respect and many other aspects. These attributes are clearly weak in the PB management, and are flagged as such by the low morale, climbing sickness rates, increasing numbers of pilots seeking and attending interviews, and soaring union membership.

Rescue 1, the ball is owned by the 'management', they have written the rules, and the employees are suffering for it. The management have created a very specific set of circumstances, and they must take responsibility for the current situation they face. To try and avoid responsibity by saying "it is happening to all LCC" or similar spin doctoring is simply not good enough, and quite incorrect.

Having worked for several LCC, I know good leadership when I see it, and at PB I definitely don't see it.

[Single Flasher]

Wow. You get given food! In Ryanair the pilots don't even get water!! No food,no water, no hot drinks. 11 1/2 hour days with no break. And that from the worlds biggest carrier (in pax numbers) Watch out what's coming you way...

SF

[MrAnderson]

Rescue none Play the ball and not the man, and things might just get better.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=3831456)

All the Freudian issues aside with this statement, arent you attempting to make comparisons with a major and a LCC?

As for my children they know when they are in the wrong so the patronising tone of that comment deserves to be filed along with the mens ball(s) analogy...sorry you dug in deep there.

[time4change]

yep bring it on well we do close to 11 hours with no break now, food rather eat my own water i think i can buy my own water, oh and to be paid what ryan air get and there rosters and time off cant wait, hope it does come our way. This company thinks we will put up with anything just to live in Christchurch, Including myself there will be approx 20 leave in next 2 months. Cant be bothered fighting easier to leave.

[time4change]

Does someone have Brett Godfrey's email if so please send him the link to pprune but then I guess he will be on leave too. He needs to know he is about to be parking aircraft.

[Knurled Knob]

Dashim, Bit below the belt mate. I dont think its appropriate to identify the crew involved. Do you know the full circumstances of the incident?? I suspect probably not.

T4C, [email protected]



All names removed!!! :mad:

Tail Wheel

[Dashim]

There is some very "mis-informed" reporting going on here.:=

How much do you really think the Flight Ops management has to say about the business model? I suspect it is very little! There are some good People in there working very hard to make it all work with what has been handed down to them from Brisbane.

Reality is that PB is a contract model for the time being. The ground handling issues are to do with the capabilities of the contract company concerned, not got a lot to do with the Flight Ops management eveyone on here is criticising.

The comparative pay between Jetconnect and PB is also being wrongly reported. In fact the Line Captains pay is very similiar and a Training Captain in PB actually gets paid slightly more. JC's increment for training Capt's is based on their base pay (less Retention bonus and overtime) where as PB's base pay is higher and therefore the increment is more. First Officers in PB have an opportunity to get a command earlier than in JC as the total jet time requirement is lower and the salary is very similiar.

Now there has been a change of GM at JC we should see a contract settled there very soon and a new commitment to resolve the issues it's faced in recent years and that wil directly put pressure on PB to match those conditions. Competition is a good thing.

Knurled Knob. Point taken and previous post withdrwn.

[time4change]

Dont know where you get those figures from? why are people leaving PB as a check captain to join VB as a FO and its not because they want to return to OZ most love NZ and wanted to stay. I agree management may be working hard just a shame they dont work smart.

[Dashim]

time4change.... the comparisons are for the New Zealand companies, not against the Australian Parent company.

All the Pilots I have known to have left to go to VB are Aussie guys going to better money and conditions and to return home. They are not NZ pilots who choose to live in NZ. Why wouldn't they go?

[time4change]

Dash we operate 180 seats air nz /qantas about 130 i guess. We should be paid more thats an industry standard. The fact of the matter is we can argue till the cows come home but the way things are PB is going to be parking Aircraft very soon as 20 I know of have interviews and will be leaving they can work in CHC paid in aussie $$ no back of the clock flying oh and 9% super oh and then there is the carrot of the 787. I wish PB well has great crew good product but conditions are crap. When does a Qantas pilot land at 2am then get put on call 12pm the same day or given a 5 sector domestic duty with no break. The jobs are very different we cannot compair ourselves to Air NZ and Qantas the are totally different operations.

[time4change]

Oh and it not just the money, heard a story last week were a FO was about to leave home for a Domestic duty and told now your on a three day trip, we have no rights no roster stability, carrying too many pax to the islands often landing at MAX LDG weight so min fuel into the islands at night with few options if we decide to carry extra gas its drop the gear early to get below landing weight. Is that a good operation?

[Dashim]

time4change....... I agree with you on the back of the clock flying. PB's flying is different to VB, AirNZ and QF domestic and back of the clock flying is very demanding and does need to be addressed with Rostering practices.

However, if you think Roster stability is worse in PB then think again. A pilot in JC has frequent changes to their Roster....far more than in PB. If you think PB is unique in rostering 5 sectors then look across at VB, AirNZ and Jetconnect again.... it's common to be Rostered between 4 to 6 sectors domestic flying. J* is no different.

To argue that PB flies 180 seats goes back to the old days of speed weight formular and isn't particularly valid. Look at QF mainline, they fly 734's and 738's sometimes on the same day under the same contract. Many operaters work on Fleet pay whereby the number of aircraft seats is simply not in the equation. At the end of the day, a 737 is a 737.


PB was and still could be one of the better jobs in NZ. Surely the key to keeping pilots there is in creating a great working environment and lifestyle. Instead of leaving, why not speak out and effect change!:)

D

[time4change]

Speak out effect change. Sorry mate we are contractors cant talk to company that would show an employee employer relationship. "talk to your contract providers" is what we get so talking is not an option. New Contract sign this you have 7 days. No chance to neg. And as for the comment we are no different to Vb J* or Jet connect sure they may do 5 sectors but not after flying till 2am then a 10 hour rest come on show me an office worker that finishes at 5pm and starts again at 3am. The fact is they dont have enough crew the fms is criminal, and another AC coming sorry im off. or the Auckland crews that sign on at 6am fly to Apia have rooms in town 45 mins away beside the pool are ment to get sleep then sign on again 11:30 same night arrive back about 5:30 am and under the current fms can be put on a duty at 3:30 pm Is that the same as Jet connect or Jet star or any other operator in the world? You cannot mix back of the clock flying and domestic with same rest periods. Its not safe our caa approved it, but im sure it was as a worse case assuming a disrupt not to be rostered to the fms which is whats happening.

[Dashim]

time4change..... Yes agreed. Time for change!

[Biggles747]

Reality is that PB is a contract model for the time being. The ground handling issues are to do with the capabilities of the contract company concerned, not got a lot to do with the Flight Ops management eveyone on here is criticising.
Due to the success of this model the ops staff are being made full time employees.

[NoN1]

Dashim, the level of emotion and intensity of feeling you read on here is a reflection of the frustration felt by crew. There is more content in this thread than all the communication I have seen from JB in his tenure. If the management of PB put a tiny fraction of the energy they spend on moving deck chairs around into engaging and communicating in a meaningful way with crew, a lot of this energy would be dissipated.

Saying "I am a good communicator, communicate with me" is not enough, PB management are failing in terms of the form and content of their management style.

How I wish they could be held accountable, but of course they won't be, not in their cosy little back scratching back patting circle.

[horserun]

I know you guys are all contractors, but join the f**king union!!

I know PB has only two dozen odd ALPA members. If you guys had 90% membership you could make a real difference!!

Look how tight the pilot labour maket is. Would be all to easy to force change if you had more ALPA members!!

If you work for PB and are not a member .....join!!
If you are a member then make sure your mates are too!!

[Choice bro]

morale Fix this and half the problem will go away. Don't and your problems are only just starting. I cant believe VB are standing by and watching a possible catastrophe develop. Time 4 Change indeed. Sooner rather than later I hope.

[time4change]

horserun yes many of us have joined the union but the reality is to get to the point where we get to the table is at least 18 months away, and thats if the company is willing. Sad to say easier to leave Im not putting up with these conditions for another month.

[NoN1]

I had an FA express her concerns about new f/o recruits level of experience, mostly based on their age and related level of flying experience. First time that has happened to me at PB.

Funny, I have read an email by SA touting the high level of experience of some DEC. I wonder why he doesn't write another explaining why they don't stay, and exactly what he is going to do about it?

The trend continues.

:ugh:

[astinapilot]

Can someone give me the email address of a jetconnect contact. Don't want to bother MFO or CP, just an admin or ops contact would be great.

[MrAnderson]

dashim hardly dashing comments from you of all people....

Just because its SO dosent make it RIGHT and doesnt make it SAFE

One would think you crawled the office fairway...but that would be speculating....you have made comparisons and comments...one of which you have withdrawn, which simply labels you the type to put every incident and accident down to pilot error...your not in management at PB by chance are you.

[NoN1]

Latest off the press for PB, "the 7th aircraft....will have a staggered introduction to routes within the network and will only become fully operational when the required crewing levels are met."

Who is accountable for that, the pilots for resigning perhaps?

This is just the beginning.

[Split Flap]

Boys,

I think horeserun has hit the nail on the head with this one, JOIN ALPA.

It might take a while to get them to the table, but the sooner you start the sooner its going to happen. Get a pilot council together and start telling the company/contractor your issues.
If your fatigue management system is sh1t, and you are feeling unsafe, GO FATIGUED! Simple, it wont have to happen to many times before they get the message, aircraft stuck on the ground in remote locations tend to get attention relativly quickly in my experience. They cant fire you for being tired/fatigued, if they do question you, if you are a member of ALPA, then you just refer them to your ALPA legal representative.

The managment at this company are already laughing in your face because you do the same job as the aussies for 30% less coin and pay for the privildge.

Leave you say? What, to another operator that is also non unionised? What happens if they start thrashing you? Where you gunna go then? Back to Pac Blue?

ALPA is not the be all and end all, and i'd be the first to admit its not perfect and has made mistakes in the past but its the only hope you have got.

The way I see it you have two options, keep taking it like a b1tch, or stand up and sound off like you got a pair.

Good luck.

[Dashim]

MrAnderson
Not at all. I just like to see accurate reports being made, particularly when it comes down to the financial side. Some of the posts on this thread are a little misleading in that regard. End of story.

[flyby_kiwi]

Airline calls for flight delay records
The Dominion Post | Tuesday, 15 January 2008


Pacific Blue is calling on the Government to force airlines to make their on-time performance records public, despite lengthy delays on its new domestic network.


It has written to Transport Minister Annette King and Consumer Affairs Minister Judith Tizard urging the Government to set a reporting standard for airlines to state how often they are on time and the frequency of delays.

Virgin Blue Airlines Group chief executive Brett Godfrey said the move would give the consumer a transparent view of which airlines were more likely to get them to their destination on time.

Pacific Blue recently came under fire from passengers who faced overnight delays. In November the airline recorded its worst on-time performance result in more than three years, with 78 per cent of flights on time.

The figure was for the overall Virgin Blue group, which includes flights to the Pacific Islands and Australia.

Pacific Blue launched its domestic service, between Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland, in November.

Mr Godfrey said there had been serious improvement in the last couple of weeks, with domestic and international on-time figures "in the 80s".

In the past week, more than 93 per cent of Pacific Blue flights were on time on all days except for two, Mr Godfrey said.

It had suffered some problems with its ground equipment breaking down, but had now contracted Menzies Aviation to handle the equipment. It also had new backup agreements in place with Air New Zealand.

"We had some people critical of our on-time performance and to be frank, all airlines have on-time performance issues. But you can never honestly determine who's got the better one until you're in a position where the Government mandates compulsory disclosure."

On-time performance information was recorded internally by airlines but there was no requirement in New Zealand for them to release the information publicly.

Mr Godfrey said he was happy to disclose Pacific Blue's on-time performance if all other airlines did the same.

An Air New Zealand spokesman said it would support publicly sharing on-time performance if agreement could be reached on reporting standards.

[Yusef Danet]

"In the past week, more than 93 per cent of Pacific Blue flights were on time on all days except for two, Mr Godfrey said."

Are you kidding? That mangled attempt at English means that on the days we choose to quote how we do, we do alright.

[DustySlim]

Biggles747, you are kidding right???

Since when does a contractor (gnd handling in this case) strive to improve their performance or sort out problems if there is no pressure from those who awarded the contract in the first place.
The PB airport ground ops manager should be on these guys back till they get there Sh!t in one pile.
On the subject of the operations staff being employed. I would hardly think they are now 'living the dream'.
The ops staff, a few days before xmas were told they had to reapply for their jobs. If successful they would be offered a new contract from Pb (instead of conair). The details of this contract were 'not available' at the time, though were told it would be for LESS money than their existing contract with conair!!
Merry Christmas guys thanks for all your hard work HO HO HO!!!:{

[time4change]

Hmmm no pilots and no opps staff, you would let current management run a garage sale

[DustySlim]

STOP PRESS...

All you crew at PB can relax.

There are 4 FO's and 2 Capts starting in March.
Oh and by the way there is another aircraft joining the fleet in March!!!
And for all you AKL crew, we are taking some of those back of the clock duties from you and giving those layabouts in CHC some.

Hold the phone caller!!

The new recruits will not even cover the resignations they have had over the past couple of months.
They cant crew the aircraft they have now, let alone another aircraft.
And,
How evenly are the back of the clock duties going to be distributed across the rosters of the CHC crew? Keep in mind that a significant proportion of Capts in CHC are either management pilots or check captains so for the half dozen line captains that are left......Hope you like your sectors long and dark....

[time4change]

yipee or is that zipee

[MrAnderson]

Sad to read the ops contractors are taking a hiding too. A reduction in pay to offset permanent employment...thats smart, introduce another segment of the workforce to the shafted club.

Oh yes I am sure they feel secure in knowing that they are permanently employed but to enhance their value and make then feel one of the team and pay them less than before????

How does that compare to the big brother club of ops controllers over the ditch???? Thats a financial aspect leaving the door open for Dashim to respond....but before he leaps upon his white mighty trustworthy steed, read this...

The question begs how is the bottom dollar worth all the potential hundreds of thousands (extremely conservative) that one poorly made decision from an individual who is fatigued distracted and preoccupied in his /her working environment going to cost the company in the bigger picture.

This will certainly be the time your skilled and learned management group have their time in front of the board in VB HQ.

Thats if the next incident evolves into an accident and replace the five zero's (thats not the managers, but someone can surely add their initials) but dollar zero's which will close the door.

So the skid and now two scrapes not to mention on time performance have accumulated a substantial cost and the operation on the domestic front its still in the bedding down period.

No wonder qualified competent experienced people are leaving...

VB HQ need to review this organisation and NZCAA had better review their involvement from a regulatory perspective because it always comes out when the investigation and court hearing takes place...this is only the beginning.

KK your right watch this space

[oh hello deiter]

Christ what a depressing thread this has been to read. As a current PB pilot I agree the company has got some major issues to deal with but so do most other airlines.

The reality is we get to fly a nice machine and live in NZ. As for the pay well I'd like a little more sure but hell its not that bad..my f/o pay nets out at around 6K in the bank monthly. I guess it depends on where you've come from...for us ex regional prop guys it pretty damn good even with the cost of the rating.

with the exception of the odd domestic day the rest of the flyings pretty cruisy 3-4 hours is pretty sweet for a sector (have a yarn, read the paper etc)

The tech and cabin crew are great and would reccommend it as a place to work :)))

Peace out

[NoN1]

OHD, you have got to be kidding. Nice wind up.

But hey, reality is for grown-ups, isn't it?

:suspect:

[oh hello deiter]

Why are there so many dicks on here? thought this was a forum for people to be open and express their opinions.

hope I can sleep tonight

[NoN1]

Hey don't cry. :sad:

Just try looking beyond the ends of your own feet.

[time4change]

Yarn and read paper hmmm no wonder we are paid such crap, Here was me all along thinking we were trained professionals, silly me

peace out to you all

[time4change]

I think you miss the point peace out,

[NoN1]

Did OHD remove his posts, or did the moderator? In any case, OHD has had his say, we all have our opinions on his opinion, let's move on :ok:

[Cpt Link Hog]

"Peace Out" boy has to be ex Eagle :yuk: lets not get side tracked...I see "we say Goodbye" to two in Feb but has anyone got some actual numbers who are about to leave or have interviews

Link

[time4change]

yep well fingers crossed they do something, but havnt seen a 40Kpay rise yet.

[slamer.]

OHD= 3-4 hours is pretty sweet for a sector (have a yarn, read the paper etc)

TIGER= - PB FLT ops mgr's all read Pprune and so do the knights of the round table .....it's highlighted a number of key areas of concern...

... and this would be..... that PB fly around reading the paper......or that they are stupid/green enough to admit to it on the internet....???

Wonder if CAA reads this site as well.... !!

PS; would have thought Air NZ would be more than happy to compare their OTP with PB.
As far as the Pax's are concerned, surely its more important to arrive on time than leave.

[NoN1]

I'd go for stupid and green.

A lot of guys I talk to don't see the point in trying to stay and change things at PB. The management has has ample time and opportunity to 'engage' the workforce, but has chosen to distance themselves and arm themselves with big sticks.

Anyone who has been around in aviation, and in PB, is horrified not only by the way pilots have been treated, but more so the FAs and now even the new engineers!!

The cancer is widespread throughout PB, the lack of leadership and therefore stagnant culture at PB tends to make people give up before the fight has really begun, hence the looking over the fence.

PB will be bouncing off the bottom for some time yet, the current managers have lost the respect of the workers, and their credibility as managers and leaders. If PB has any hope of success, PB needs to clean house, and bring in some people of vision, charisma, people who have the courage to make real change, get rid of the hallway creepers and nest builders.

Trouble is there are trolls under desks everywhere at hq, protecting their turf at the expence of the airline and everyone else.

RIP PB

[time4change]

NON1
that was very well said i couldn't agree more, I have a feeling Brisbane will be having a very close look at things from here on in, but like the rest Ill be long gone before things improve.

[Choice bro]

NoN1 & Time 4 Change. Yep seems to me the damage has been done. Agree with all your posts. Its a real pity hey.............We have all put allot in to Pacific Blue and the sad reality is, nothing is going to change for some time. I just hope that my/our pending departures from PB brings better things for those who stay. One things for sure, I wont be around to see change, I'v waited 4 years for that. Anyway I would like to finally congratulate the great job senior management have done in distancing the company PB, as far away as possible from the Cabin Crew, Engineers, Pilots, Ground Crew, all your most important assets, obviously in the intreats of $$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing else............................................That takes a very different type of leadership.:D: :yuk: :yuk: :ugh:

[the_last_viirgin]

Where are all the Capt's and F/O's that are leaving heading to. Has the drain toward VB started again?

[Knurled Knob]

TLV,
There are at least 6 (inc 3 training capts) with interviews and or offers from jetstar (for F/O positions). There are another 1/2 dozen who have interviews with emirates and cathay, serveral looking to head to VB and 2 that I know of have been to interviews with ANA.
All told approx 15-20 pilots are looking to bale out asap. This may not sound like the end of the world but consider PB have already lost approx 30 in the past 12-18 months and of these at least 8 are experienced training captains taking f/o positions with other airlines. These are not just ozzies moving home as is the opinion of the management there are plenty of kiwis looking as well.

Non1,
You are on the money, the few newsletters sent to pilots and cabin crew lately telling them "it will all be ok" is too little too late. The company cannot thank them profusely for all their hard work and professionalism on one hand and stick it into them with the other.
Why is it that pilots and cabin crew are expected to be professional and courteous at all times when our "collegues" (I use the term loosly) in the office exhibit none of these traits??

[KRUSTY 34]

One of our Girls (Flight Attendant) off to Abu Darbi (excuse spelling) next week. We were talking about the expansion plans all over the world and it was mentioned that Etihad had just offered its pilots a 29% pay-rise. Not surprising considering the senior managements statement in Sydney last year. "Pilots won't be a problem, we will just pay them more than the others." No doubt Emirates will have to follow suit.

Last year was just a fortaste. This year (and for probably the next 5!) Not just PB, but all of the local carriers, including Qantas will be losing drivers by the truckload. As they say, you aint' seen nothin' yet. After years of being told, "if you don't like it F#ck off somewhere else", pilots, (many with long memories) are doing just that.

There is only one solution. Compete, and compete hard for labour. If you are unwilling or unable to do that, then be prepared to go out of business.

[time4change]

Oh it its not just Captains leaving i know of 7 FO's looking Im sure there is many more, I think maybe we should lay off management because I cant believe they could be so blind to all this, It must be being controlled from BSN, I would say our managers hands are tied either that or they are totally stuped.

[Cloud Cutter]

"Peace Out" boy has to be ex Eagle

What makes you say that? I'm ex Eagle, and their FMS leaves the Pac Blue one for dead. Not all ex turbo-prop drivers are prone to shiny jet induced, rose tinted glasses. In saying that, I do hold out some hope of things improving in the future - I won't be holding my breath though.

[Capt_Zoolander]

(1)Immediately increase your Pilot's pay by 30-40%
(2)Give them decent rosters
(3)Make them full time employees instead of contractors
(4)Treat them with respect instead of like commodities

[time4change]

yep thats what would be needed to keep most of us and same for FO's not just captains. But it wont happen we will leave and they will park aircraft.

[zeniku]

A mate told me recently that when one of the pilots called Ops to go fatigued he heard exhorted " If that's another pilot asking for more money, tell him to f*** off".

The whole kit and kaboodle in a nut shell.

Cheers guys, good luck!

[greenslopes]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh how refreshing, how very Virgin!
They just don't get it do they.
For many of us it is nothing to do with money.
Now who havn't I sent my C.V to?

[Chocks Away]

There are at least 6 (inc 3 training capts) with interviews and or offers from jetstar (for F/O positions). There are another 1/2 dozen who have interviews with emirates and cathay, serveral looking to head to VB and 2 that I know of have been to interviews with ANA....These are not just ozzies moving home as is the opinion of the management there are plenty of kiwis looking as well.
Well said KK, your whole post :D

LMC
Add to that list more F/Os, under consideration by QF (Oz longhaul/Domestic) and ANZ. Etihad also, given the payrise mentioned above. They are ramping up as well, not wanting to be left short of experience.

[Knurled Knob]

Once again for the wrong reasons Pacific Blue is on the front page of the local newspaper, "The Press" in Christchurch!

Due to crew sickness passengers had to be offloaded on a Mel - Chc flight

May I suggest that the crew were probably sick AND tired, of the situation at PB.

STILL no word from our esteemed managers!!!!

Lets see thats 2 tailstrikes, 1 runway excursion , fatigued and disallusioned crew. What else will be added to the list before we see some action.:(

[Te_Kahu]

A packed passenger jet spent a chaotic 90 minutes on the tarmac at Melbourne airport as crew members begged, bribed, cajoled and bullied 13 passengers into getting off the aircraft.


With one crew member ill, safety regulations meant the Pacific Blue flight scheduled from Melbourne to Christchurch was unable to take off on Wednesday morning unless it shed 13 bodies.

But, as Melbourne newspaper The Age reported, passengers dug in their heels despite crew attempts to get them off - including the pilot's threat to kick them all off and fly an empty plane across the Tasman.

"It was quite bizarre," said Age journalist Brendan Nicholson, who was on the flight to Christchurch with his two sons for his mother's 80th birthday.

"They [the crew] were fairly apologetic but at the same time quite tough."

Initially, crew called for volunteers, suggesting anyone with friends and family in Melbourne might like to stay another two days till the next flight.

Alternatively, they could fly to Sydney, then Brisbane, then on to New Zealand late that night.

With volunteers unforthcoming, the crew then rounded up passengers on standby and escorted them off.

Most went meekly, but one girl lay low till crew warned "if you're hiding, we'll track you down".

She finally owned up and was ejected. Increasingly desperate crew then said any volunteers willing to take the next flight would also receive an additional free flight.

As passenger reluctance continued, said things then got tough, Mr Nicholson said.

If no one volunteered, the crew warned, they would pick off passengers who had been last to check in. But these people would not get the free flight deal.

"Last chance folks, if you think you are among the last to check in," the intercom said.

"In a couple of minutes, anyone who doesn't volunteer to move will be removed from the aircraft."

Crew members then began prowling the plane, picking out passengers they thought were late to check in.

One couple stammered that they were on their way to a wedding, and were granted a reprieve.

Crew resumed the search for late-comers.

The pilot then spoke on the intercom, warning that if 13 passengers did not get off the plane, he would leave everyone behind and fly an empty plane across the Tasman.

Eventually, with a renewed offer of the free flight deal, a couple were cajoled to head back down the gangway and the flight took off, 13 passengers and a fair bit of goodwill lighter.

[time4change]

has anyone else on here been sent message from NBR reporter they seem very interested in PB