Almost every German airline requires DLR?

[above_trutth]

Hi there!

I've done some searching around on the Internet, and the results I came back with was not what I hoped for.

After I have been reading many posts on PPRuNe, I think that a DLR test is one of the most difficult tests you are going thru for a job. But, I thought this test was only for Lufthansa, but it seems that almost every major airline company in Germany requires this test. But if it's just around 6-8% pass rate, how can the airlines get all their pilots?

My dream is to live and work in Germany, but if only 6-8% of many thousands manage to get a positive result from the DLR test, I guess my dream might be broken easiely.

[above_trutth]

But is DLR a theoretical test, and the questions are from the books, or is it a psycotest?

I don't think I will take the risk of spending thousands of euros on CPL and ATPL, and then fail DLR - well, then I might never find a good job in Germany, and I have a loan that I can't pay back.

Sounds like that it might be a better idea to stick to my PPL, enjoy flying as a hobby and go to the university :( Sounds crappy since flying in Germany has been my dream for a long time, but the DLR is really something that I didn't knew of.

Btw, why must Germany have this test? As I know of, United Kingdon doesn't have any of this? I have found some very good flight schools in UK, so that is a possibility. But has this country somethink like the DLR? Also, in UK there are so many jobs that might be possible future.

It is pretty stupid that if you fail a single test, which is also so strickt, that you can't be a pilot in Germany.

[Treeshaver]

quoute:

"My dream is to live and work in Germany,"

??????????????? U feeling ok?:E

[DuffyDuck]

Well, that´s not the whole truth. It is right, Lufthansa and their partners let you do the DLR. But there are still companys in Germany woh don´t require it. E.G. AirBerlin, DBA, LTU, (they have a Test at Intercockpit, pritty much like the Dlr, but you can do it again after a while), Cirrus, DCA, all the executive companys, Tuifly (DLR only for their flightschool), Germania. Condor still have the DLR, but it seems, they might change that.
And it is not true that you can´t redo the Test for Lufthansa. First you can try it for their flighttraining. If you fail, you can redo it for their ready entry programm.
You see, not all german pilots have DLR. I even know more pilot who havn´t and still they fly. I would even guess, that more than 50% of the german pilots failed or never tried the test. Well, Lufthansa flight training surely is the most secure way into the cockpit in germany as they garantee you a job (if not, they repay the loan), but definitely not the only way.

[dartagnan]

but it does help and surely a dumb :mad: won't pass it.

do you mean the 95% of dumbass who fail the DLR test and who fly now jets in UK or in europe (except germany)?(and these 95% of dumbass are fully compliant with JAA standards!)

I got a call to pass these tests, but didn't want to reply. IF I fail, these b...ds keep a record on you, and you can not present yourself anymore for an airline in Germany.
So your career is over, finished, say bye bye to your dream...:{

not worth to go to hamburg, pay hotel and transport just to get a NO in your mailbox 3 days later. No need to say, it's worthless to pay a school in germany to make a CPL in germany...(3%-5% passrate).

don't know what's wrong in this country, but seems to me the SS are still there!!! better to try in UK!

[SkyEagle]

"CPL in germany...(3%-5% passrate)."

Wow, is that true? Why does Germany has these weird regulations which no "normal" man can pass? It's OK to sort out those who were borned without a brain, but the DLR test and German tests in generall sounds like things that are way out of the standards in other countries.

------------------------------------------------------------

"IF I fail, these b...ds keep a record on you, and you can not present yourself anymore for an airline in Germany."

I agree, not worth taking the risk. This is absurd!

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"better to try in UK!"

Sounds like your right. I've been reading some post by you earlier, and you didn't get a job in Germany. How are you doing now?:)

[smoothkpilot]

Germany is one country out of hundreds. So what, if you fail the DLR tests there are many other operators out there you could potentially work for. I know of many pilots who have failed the DLR tests and are currently operating for airlines all around the world. These guys haven't had any problems with training or check rides. The DLR tests is German efficiency taken too far. The DLR tests are perhaps the hardest set of tests I have ever come across for pilot recruitment, what amazes me is that some airlines use no tests and others use these DLR tests, this is the far end of the spectrum for aptitude testing. See the tests for what they are, another set of hoops for applicants to jump through. No doubt failure of these tests will knock your confidence but with only 6-8% passing these tests I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe its those 6-8% who need to look at themselves, maybe they should get out more (you catch my drift). Whether or not you can fly and handle a heavy jet can only be tested in a sim.:ok:

[dartagnan]

german companies do everything to make you fail, when a good company make everything to make you pass.

bad companies (who don't need you):

-low pass rate in psycho tests(less than 5% or 10%)
-not mutual acceptation of your degrees in your countries(Habitur level required, other professions are not recognized)
-German language required
-more tests to pass (interview, sim, theoretical tests)
-physical "test" (hair, skin, age,religion...)
-lot of paperwork required
-etc


good companies who want you:

-interview(15-30 minutes)
-sim (sometimes no sim at all...)

[SkyEagle]

A great thanks to every single reply, all your points are very important to think of.

Are there any DLR tests in Austria and Swizerland also, or are they only for German airlines? If not, are there any tests like the DLR in Austria and Switzerland?

Once again, all your replies are helpful!

[intercooler]

Just curious...

I got my licence in Sweden, and had to pass psychological tests to start my CPL training.

What's it like in the rest of Europe? Is psych-test before flight training still a requirement in the rest of JAA too?

[dartagnan]

no, these stupid DLR psycho test to eliminate you, are only in germany!!!
the ENTIRE world don't use these DLR test cuz they are not accurate and cost too much!

the best psy test are the one which don't fail you or pass you, just give your personality.

[cold_soak]

I have been reading this thread and, sorry guys, there are stacks of twisted facts in it.

first of all: the DLR test has nothing to do with obtaining a german CPL.
Mind you, the regulations for that are laid down in JAR-FCL;
and to my knowledge that's the same all over Europe.....

The DLR is an instituion that carries out -amongst a lot of reasearch in the field of aviation- assessments for flying personel. This is done on behalf of customers; the most important being Lufthansa and it's affiliated regional partners.
The assessments usually consist of two parts: The GU ("basic examination") which mainly focusses on stuff like mental reasoning, spatial orientation, ability to concentrate and the like. I have heard of other european airlines doing that too ;)
I stand to be corrected, but I have heard the pass rate here is about 20-30%.

Those who have passed the GU are invited to the next step which includes group exercises and interviews etc.
If about one quarter passes here, we are looking at those quoted 3-5%
So that rate contains the number of successful candidates of all initial applicants; not an awful lot for sure but I don't think BA or KLM hire every second of their applicants either.. :O

Hope this helps to clarify

P.S. Airlines that don't send applicants to the DLR don't give a toss whether you have passed, failed or didn't sit the DLR test......

[SkyEagle]

"P.S. Airlines that don't send applicants to the DLR don't give a toss whether you have passed, failed or didn't sit the DLR test......"

I'm not so familiar with the expression "don't give a toss". Do you mean that if the airline, e.g. Air Berlin, doesn't require a DLR test, they don't care if you have taken/passed/failed the test?

And I just bring my question up again: Are there any DLR tests in Austria and Swizerland also, or are they only for German airlines? If not, are there any tests like the DLR in Austria and Switzerland?

[Parkbremse]

In germany apart from Lufthansa only the Lufthansa Regional partners require their applicants to have passed the "Grunduntersuchung (GU)", which is the first stage in the Lufthansa selection program. If you want to work for Lufthansa or one of the directly associated airlines (LCAG, CLH, GWI), you have to pass besides a simulator evaluation the second stage at the DLR as well ("Firmenuntersuchung (FU)"). If you fail at any stage you cannot apply for Lufthansa again. If you pass the first stage but fail later, you can still apply for the Regional Partners excluding CLH, which are: Augsburg Airways, Contact Air and Eurowings. These airlines have their own programs for the simulator and the psychological evaluation.
Apart from LH or LHR, no one in germany gives a s*** whether you passed the DLR Test or not...

[p0815]

do you mean the 95% of dumbass who fail the DLR test and who fly now jets in UK or in europe (except germany)?(and these 95% of dumbass are fully compliant with JAA standards!)

I got a call to pass these tests, but didn't want to reply. IF I fail, these b...ds keep a record on you, and you can not present yourself anymore for an airline in Germany.
So your career is over, finished, say bye bye to your dream...:{

not worth to go to hamburg, pay hotel and transport just to get a NO in your mailbox 3 days later. No need to say, it's worthless to pay a school in germany to make a CPL in germany...(3%-5% passrate).

don't know what's wrong in this country, but seems to me the SS are still there!!! better to try in UK!Thats complete nonsense! Pass rates for the CPL in Germany are the same as in the rest of Europe, as the Questions are also the same as in the rest of Europe. DLR is just important for Lufthansa, not for Air Berlin or any other German Airline. By the way, I am also working in Germany without DLR.
And for you last sentence: I wouldnt recommend you posting something like that in a German forum as you might get a very quick visit from local police.

[CRJ2]

@ parkbremse: you wrote:
"If you fail at any stage you cannot apply for Lufthansa again. If you pass the first stage but fail later, you can still apply for the Regional Partners excluding CLH, which are: Augsburg Airways, Contact Air and Eurowings. These airlines have their own programs for the simulator and the psychological evaluation."

Unfortunately this is not true! I failed the FU for CLH a couple of years ago. Last year I sent an application to eurowings (with the Typerating on the CRJ and about 2000hrs on it) but it was rejected because I failed the CLH-FU!
So if you fail the FU there's no way to work for Eurowings! I don't know about the other Regional Partners of LH....

[cold_soak]

@Skyeagle


I'm not so familiar with the expression "don't give a toss". Do you mean that if the airline, e.g. Air Berlin, doesn't require a DLR test, they don't care if you have taken/passed/failed the test?

Sorry for the misunderstanding...:O

And you (and "parkbremse") are right, no airline (except LH and partners) in Germany is interested in the DLR.
As for AirBerlin they have their own psychometric testing programme.

Don't get fooled by the plethora of DLR-myths; with a bit of preparation it is definitely possible to pass it :ok:

[SkyEagle]

So you don't have to be Superman to pass the test?:E Are the persons that pass the test "normal", or are do they have some kind of capabilities the rest of the pilots don't have?

I'm really not sure what I want to do now, but it's sure great to hear that the rest of the airlines don't care about the test.

My point of view in this case has to be that it doesn't to any bad to you if you don't pass? If you don't take the test, well - you'll never be able to try for e.g. Lufthansa anyway. If you on the other hand take the test, but fail, you know that you have to find something else - and none of the other companies will care about it.

Sounds like I got notting to loose taking the test

Btw - anyone with some detailed information of the test? What the famous "psyko" test really is, so that I can get an idea of this monster!:E

[cold_soak]

@Skyeagle


Btw - anyone with some detailed information of the test? What the famous "psyko" test really is, so that I can get an idea of this monster!:E


from previous posts I take it that you speak german.
In that case this website might be helpful to you: www.pilotenboard.de (http://www.pilotenboard.de)

You'll find plenty of info on DLR there

[stardustcologne]

FP_Ace,
this is because nearly half of the companies in Germany are related to Lufthansa somehow. Well, not really half of them, but there are a lot.
The other german guys were right about their information regarding the DLR test. It is not a miracle, it is not a wonder to pass the test - and actually in these days Lufthansa is really looking for ready entry pilots as well as for ab initio. I know some F/Os coming from different "other" companies who now join the Lufthansa after trying and passing the DLR test.

All the other companies (well, the good ones closed down or were taken by Air Berlin) don't care about any DLR test.
Try to join the Air Berlin Group (via Air Berlin directly or via LTU, they should offer new vacancies in the beginning of this year, I don't know if Condor is looking for pilots...), it only can become better than it is now! :) But don't forget to do a little bit of training for the interpersonal test as well!!!