Crew safety briefings

[Sky_Angel]

i was wondering what u guys thought about crew safety briefings, the company that i work for...and leaving!!! hardly ever do them, so it is strange when they happen. i dont agree with his because it means all that info we have to know, doesnt stay put...and i'm forever going though my manual!!
i wondered if there should maybe become a CAA standard briefing for each type of aircraft...(or perhaps there is one that my company dont know about!!!)

thoughts guys???

[comeflywithme]

hi Sky Angel
It is to my knowledge that it is a regulation that flight briefings must be done before every flight. In our company we have on the spot inspectors (not from the company) who walk in briefings while they are being done to make sure everything is outlined e.g. Sep/First aid. There are dire consequences if this is not forfilled and our licences revoked and a resit of SEP if everything is not up to scratch. I dont know what company you work for but I would be glad to leave as it sounds pretty dodgy to me..

STAY SAFE and happy flying!!

[Sky_Angel]

i agree. its my last day tommorow...yippee

[euroboy]

A safety briefing should ALWAYS be carried out before a flight. Its a legal requirement.

A briefing can be a discussion or/and questions but I feel that a discussion regarding a safety issue is more benefical, as questioning can be repeditive, leading, or in the worst case like standing infront of a fireing squad.

I think 2 SEP and a First Aid question is about right, but if you have a discussion on a subject, say a decompression, you will cover, drop down O2, portable O2 bottles, what you would do, what you see, hear, feel, plus first aid treatment, which could cover not only hypoxia, but cuts bruises, shock etc...

However a briefing should be a briefing not a interogation.

If you have a standard brief per aircraft crew over a period of time learn the standard answer, and as we know all emergencies are different. The information we are given in manuals and so forth are a guide which at times may need to be adapted on "the day".

As for the service brief it just as important as this informs the crew how you like the service done (so no bad feeling and there is no come back if the service is not done to the No1 liking) tells the crew of any disabled paxs, any special meals etc...
It gives the playing field rules as such for that day.
Also the crew feel lead, rather than just vague guessing games.

[comeflywithme]

Hey euroboy
Man you covered it to a T. I totally agree with what you have said especially the fact that a briefing should be a discussion and not an interrogation. I have to give briefings nearly every second day and I find I get more response from the crew when it is a discussion and not a firing line. Yet I also remember when I was a lower grade how tedious and nerve wraking briefings could be. The problem these days i find is the amount of different aircrafts we are type rated on and the many different amounts of equipment there are on an a/craft (e.g. boeing/airbus). To that effect briefings are beneficial and spark up our memory on things that have slipped our mind.
Like you said, its a playing field out there and you have got to be ready for the game!!
I would definately feel safe on your flight.

Stay Safe!!and happy flying

Congrats on leaving Sky Angel.. Where are you going?? To another airline?

[This message has been edited by comeflywithme (edited 31 January 2001).]

[Sky_Angel]

yep... off to MON......which is at the other end of the scale...or so i have been told.!!!

[comeflywithme]

sorry for the ignorance but wheres MON?

[Flygor]

I agree that a safety briefing should always be carried out, but it should always be done constructively. On one of my first flights my purser was notorious for her briefings, and most crew reported terrifed, which did not help them give the answers to her obscure questions, and she seemed to take some pleasure if someone got something wrong. I think that we can only gain from a briefing that is carried out as a group discussion. After all the vast majority of us know the answers to the questions we could be asked and if anyone gets a bit rusty or gets a blank then someone else might be able to jog their memory without anyone getting embarrassed in front of the rest of the crew.

[Ignition Override]

I don't know what country you live in, but in the USA, if I give a briefing on the DC-9 other than "code 2-4 turbulence, no weather, 1:20 enroute", and "let us know about whatever you need, ok", they look at us like we are still brand new Captains, or that we just like to give long, unnecessary briefings (at this base, they fly the plane every day, or almost)-they often get a glazed look in their eyes after about 45 seconds, and we are wasting our time.

When I was FO on the B-757 (DTW), the Captain briefed the FAs for a few minutes: this was like working for a different airline. As FO, I often never even saw the crew in the aft galley, whether due to workload or the old corporate culture (very cold and unfriendly) until almost the end of the flight. The cool relations in general between the FAs and pilots here has been perpetuated for many years by a very resentful attitude in Inflight Training given to new FAs (is it a Minnesota thing?). The Minneapolis crewbase flight attendants have a very feminist group within its ranks which doesn't recommend bringing coffee to the cockpit each hour (if at all). They train many of them to be biased against us. One brand-new pilot in MSP walked into a large room full of ladies in uniform and he felt like it was a feminist meeting, from the rude stares that he received. Most of our 6,000-member pilot group is very aware of it, and I strongly suspect that many flight attendants in MSP would receive more help from the pilots if all the FAs based there would realize that we all work for the same airline. There still exists a lot of distance and distrust between the groups: pilots based up north often don't want to invite the FAs to go out for a beer-at several cities the cabin crew leaves after one leg and we never get a bit familiar anyway. Hope I didn't hurt any feelings by describing mostly other pilots' observations over the last 15 years.

But many FAs there are very good, as at the other bases-I'm not questioning all of them. Some pilots here are pompous, others have almost new personality, and might use the wrong approach with them. This could be a factor in certain situational misunderstandings.

I once flew from DTW to western Nevada and nobody had even bothered to offer to cook our breakfasts (after a 5:00 AM wake-up). Maybe we were supposed to come to the galley and do our own?

I have little incentive to give a long briefing which seems to imply that the crew doesn't know its job-they would think that we're just being "too big for our britches".

Ask other NWA pilots-these are just my observations from being here 15 years, and up at a northern base for just over 3 years until not long ago. If any NWA FAs can explain why these are very common pilot perceptions here, please do so.

[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 01 February 2001).]

[flapsforty]

Good thread!
Comeflywithme, at our mob we are provided with laminated A4 sized Flight Safety Quick Reference Cards for each type of ac we fly. It's mandatory to take along theses cards on each flight. When in the briefing room, about the first thing we do is have a look at the card to jog memories as to the specifics of the type we're gonna fly. Then it's up to the purser/No1/Lead to conduct a FS briefing.

As Euroboy says, interrogations are not that effective. What I usually do is make each FA ask the person next to her/him a question, and this includes myself. (I specify that no-brainers are not on :) ) This tends to focus everybody's mind! We also have a signalling box in each briefing room, so we can listen to how the different emergency signals actually sound on the ac we're going to work on.

Iggy, I think what my colleagues are referring to in this thread is the pre-flight safety conditioning carried out by the cabin crew among themselves, not a briefing by the pilots.
Still, your description of the realities of relations between cockpit and cabin crew in your company is harrowing! And as always,, I wonder how it can be allowed, and how this state of affairs impacts on Flight Safety?
Yes, it would be interesting to hear from FA's from your company and to find out how they look at the whole thing.
May-be you could promote PPRuNe and this forum a bit among your cabin crews, and get them on here and talk to us? :)
rgrds f40

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Flaps frozen......

[Octopus]

Agree along the lines with euroboy. Safety questions important - the fact that they are done is enought to ensure that crew keep up to date. No need for set planning - like everything else should be geared for the situation.

Service briefing doesn't need to be so much likes and don't likes - should be topical with pax profile and experience passed on.

A good briefing with an understanding, firm come approachable attitude can work wonders to motivate crew and get them on the right wavelength.

Don't claim to be the genius but 13 years as purser in airline with 40 odd nationalities and not a lot of problems on the aircraft probably counts for something!

[xtc]

yeah yeah bla bla bla bla

i've been a cabin crew for 3 yrs and in that time i'd say that about 5 per cent of my briefings have been interesting..

they all ask the same ?'s and to tell you the truth it gets a bit tedious to say the least.
not taking anything away from the people that try to make them a little interesting but in general they r boring...

lets face it folks, we r all adults and if u can't take the time to know your sh"t then u shouldn't be flying.

u don't have to be an einstein to be a cabin crew...................

a yibidy yibidy thats all folks

[flapsforty]

In which case you should qualify perfectly xtc! :)

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singularly simple person......

[comeflywithme]

XTC, your ignorance shows why we do have to give briefings before a flight. Yes they can sometimes be boring, especially for a WELL KNOWLEDGED person like yourself http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif Yet not everyone there in the briefing knows there stuff and sometimes need a bit of a jog of memory to kickstart the flight. To that effect I hope I dont fly with you or have to give you any briefings as you would find me.......how would you say it......boring!

[Octopus]

xtc

Glad it wasn't me who had to bring it up.

It's because of the 3 years of great knowledge and b-o-r-i-n-g briefings that experienced crew do them to motivate the others who aren't so b-o-r-e-d and interested in learning off others.

Whilst most are adult you seem to be in the minority who think you are!

Bye the way what the hell did happen to your mate C-o-o-l E-m-i-r-a-t-e-s = did he miss the 5% interesting briefing?


[This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 10 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 10 February 2001).]

[xtc]

ok ok ok

flaps, who gives a flying f*ck if u know how to taste a good drop of red, at the end of the day its your safety that is of paramount importance, so i make sure i know my stuff, and i expect my fellow crew to do the same.
i'm not saying that i am overly intelligent (but definitly gifted), but it takes about 10 mins of reading before each flight and u keep up to date and if the info don't sink in after 1 year of flying then yes they probably r at the same level as you flaps......
its something that should never be compramised, which i see happen too many times, which brings me back to the square one, briefings r boring..

does this sound familiar:
what r the pre flight checks for a halon?
what do u do if a pax faints?
what r the signs to a toilet fire?

have i made my point. yes i think i have, i will move on now....

comefly, i dunno mate but if u keep playing that flight sim then yes, u too may become a pilot one day... god help us!!!!!

octapus, how r ya, i hope u r well, miss the chitty chats we had, all in good fun u know that...

cool ek and i r really cooooool if u get my drift....
but i'll see if i can get a guest appearance out of her yet...
lets just say that i have corrected her spelling and grammer once and for all ...

oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

this is just soooooooo much fun..


[This message has been edited by xtc (edited 12 February 2001).]

[comeflywithme]

XTC
I think you owe flapsforty an apology. He/she made a simple comment about the way you made cabin crew sound like thickheads. he/she was not being ignorant. Yes I have to admit there are some out there that are space cadets but all our pax are not Einsteins either. You just stick to what you know best....selling ice blocks!

All in good fun
CFWM

[Xenia]

xtc!!! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif
I believe as well you have to apologize to Flaps...I found your reply quite rude...and yes...if we were all at the same level Flaps is...believe me....the sky would be a better place to fly :)
Do you actually know her level?
Do you actually know what company she works for? Do you know her position? do you know how many yeeeaaarrrrssss of experience she has??
For those of us who knows Flaps and appreciate her as a Friend and as a true proffessional woman...your reply was quite ------!!!!!
Well...you should know your stuff, that's true...but how many people doesn't?? or just how many people just forget about something???
A friendly advice...next time think before you write something personal on somebody!!!
;)


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*************************Happy Landings! :)
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[This message has been edited by Xenia (edited 13 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Xenia (edited 13 February 2001).]

[xtc]

oh on the contrare

xenia - just because flags may be what u say she is, does that give her the right to put others down....... i never start throwing insults but i always reply...

just read flygirls topic and the proof is there for all to see so stop your sooking all of you, especially you comefly.

comefly, i hope u don't forget your rings buddy....... all the best!!!!!!!!!!!

[WelshCityFlyer]

XTC

I've been reading your posts with delight - just love the way you wind 'em up, and watch them go: Carry on the good work

WCF

[Sick Squid]

Back from 10 days waggling the old tentacles in the sun of Mauritius, and wooah! The knives are out in this corner of the web...

There's one simple maxim that always keeps us gone-over-to-the Dark-Side moderator types happy....

Attack the argument, never the person

Or as Redsnail put it very eloquently on another debate somewhere else in this electronic cavern...

Play the ball, not the player

Too much of the latter going on in this thread: it's about pre-flight cabin crew safety briefings. Stay on topic please, this is too good a subject to be buried in abuse.

Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator

[Birds2perches]

I agree absolutely that thorough safety briefings should be carried out for OBVIOUS reasons. It also sets a professional tone before we begin work and ensures that everyone DOES know their safety. It also is a way of constantly refreshing ourselves in prepation for our annual SEP's. Not everyone can be trusted to read their manual for 10 mins a day. I've done briefings many times and found that people have been way off the track so it's a good way of maintaining knowledge. Cocky people who think they 'know it all' can often be the dangerous ones. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

[xtc]

i agree with u birds, but i still think its not too much to ask for crew to have a more than sound knowledge of their safety and emerg... its funny how alot of crew seem to study about 2 days before their refresher.
i just want to feel that my fellow crew on my flights are confident in dealing with most situations, and a part of being ready is being updated with your manual.

in saying that who knows how each and every one of us will really react in an emerg situation, we'll never know until we face it, hopefully never...

welshcity, thanx for your support, its not about winding people up, its about having an opinion and sticking up for yourself against the mafiosa.....

[GeneralAviation]

xtc – you reckon you know your stuff – but you don’t listen to the briefings and so are probably not a cued up as you think. You state you are bored, therefore, that means that you don’t take in the briefing. No doubt the pax are bored with your safety briefings because you find repetitive stuff boring and it will show.

Do you know your stuff? Just how well would you score against Xenia and Flaps?

You claim not to start insults and yet you make a gratuitously offensive posting against flaps. Would everyone were at the level that Flaps is! You can bet your bottom dollar on flaps not only being what Xenia says, but also very good at her job (as is Xenia), therefore it might be wise to listen to those who have been in the business considerably longer than yourself.

It is beholden upon everyone of us who fly to have sound knowledge of safety and emergency, but how can you claim to have that if you don’t listen properly.

Are you sure that your fellow crew are equally as confident in your ability to deal with any situations. You seem to have a ‘them and us mentality’, not good when purporting to be part of a team.

Have you given a thought to why the briefings to you are mundane and basic, could it be perhaps you are not quite the star you claim.

[WelshCityFlyer]

Ah, briefings.....

Given by those who assume they know it all, (normally sitting there with notes in hand), to us, the crew.
It does NOT take a genius to be aquainted with what is required, (oven/overhead fires, safety equipment, medical emergencies, etc, etc).
I know where Xtc is coming from, it isn't hard. Most briefings in my company consist of: "name some points of cabin secure" - "explain how to use <a certain> piece of equipment" Everybody drones their answer, as the No1 reads from his/her list of questions and answers.
God - on the occasion you get a GOOD No1, who will ask something different, (and - good gracious), actually knows what's in the manual themselves, the crew are shocked into thinking.
Personally, I think ALL these people who give briefings should be 'put on the spot' themselves sometime - sort the men from the boys, and the girls from the women.

Don't shoot me for MY opinion!

[euroboy]

I am sorry to hear your briefings are boring you guys. Unfortunately, there are good and bad No1`s and the same with airlines. I was a No1 for over 11 years and was also SEP/Security trainer. I am now junior crew again. As you may of read in my earlier posting regarding briefings I would not say my briefing were boring and when training new No1`s I would tell them to always include yourself. It is not easy as it looks to conduct a good brief; also there is the peer pressure of not giving a "mean" briefing as word gets out that they are ****** etc.... and everyone on this world wants to be liked- hence the BCF check, paxs faints.

I started flying with a UK airline which you learnt Drills for this and that and they had to be word perfect, as was learning the emergency PA. The only thing is great- learn these drills and PA`s parrot fashion like at school with times tables 1x2=2, 2x2=4, Acknowledge, Brief, Collect, but you have to know what it means.
The airline changed it training methods, although still drilled and PA ed they explain it, although I don`t agree with word for word answers.

When I joined a new airline I ended up training SEP. I got the trainee crew to tell me what they would in an emergency situation type story I was telling them, therefore they creating the drill by telling me. OK it was not word prefect and we needed to tweak it here and there; but hey did it sink in.
I also used this in briefings.

The problem with learn by manual is that it is a GUIDE and most probably have to be re- aranged some of the fomular to get you though that day. Manuals are written from passed emergencies. Look what happen to that United DC-10 when the tail engine had a fan blade failure it broke all THREE hydraulic systems. The manual for the f/d probably was not much good to them, but past experiences.

The most important thing to remember is that an unplanned emergency is more likely to happen than a planned, and you have to bloodly quick in that instance.

My 3rd airline training was excellent, not 1 drill or PA learning parrot fashion, but practial drill training in mock ups, which was then tested both written in multi-choice, and practically. BRILLIANT.



[This message has been edited by euroboy (edited 19 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by euroboy (edited 19 February 2001).]

[Octopus]

WelshCityFlyer

It really does not get brownie points to wind people up or be smart when it comes to safety on board the aircraft.

The fact that xtc reads up for 10 minutes before briefing merely proves the point that SEP questions are not easy and briefings boring!

After a few years flying, most crew think they know it all - give it 10 more and you really do have an idea of what is going on and have the ability to learn more as a result of dealing with people and situations.

It may not matter if you know the red .. but it matters a lot to the first class passengers who pay for the aircraft to get from A to B. Particularly if you like to get the best airline service awards.

[Octopus]

WelshCityFlyer

It really does not get brownie points to wind up, be smart or use abusive language like xtc when it comes to briefings and safety on board the aircraft.

With a wealth of 3 years flying xtc admits to reading the manuals for 10 minutes beore briefing - would indicate that not all is known and briefings totally boring.

Maybe it is not important to know the names of the wines as well but it does help airlines going for awards and confidence in knowledge of the crew.

You would like to see all pursers in same position of airline crew - if you work for a real international airline you will find that this happens once a year in re-checks if you do them! A lot of seniors do read the manuals before to refresh and ensure that they know the job they are paid for!

Not many medical problems on aircraft run by the rules of first aid training and only experience with the human race will give the ability to deal with these calmly in a professional manner.

Safety briefings are not designed to offload crew members in very large numbers, and are kept easy for that reason. At 0400 a question like the causes of shock may send a lot of crew into that condition!

Something that has been bothering me for a long time and I am sure you can answer - why is it that the crew who live in discos cannot stay awake on night flights?

[Octopus]

What really is the point in retaliating to xtc or defending the said person.

Just check the other sites. Cool person only has to read the books 10 minutes before briefing because questions too easy and then drinks Vodka in flight.

God help the person who gets sick and doesn't show symptoms straight out of the manual!

[Octopus]

WelshCityFlyer

You picked a good person to defend in xtc.

10 minutes reading manuals before mentally unchallenging briefings sounds a little less confident that postings made abusing others who tried to make mature, experienced comments.

Maybe the bottle of Vodka in flight (see Emirates here I come) improves the intellect and gives super hero powers when dealing with emergencies on the aircraft

[five percent]

WelshCityFlyer

Shame you chose to defend xtc = tends to put you in same cattle of fish.

As xtc mentioned there are 5% interesting briefings. IF xtc is so confident - why the need for 10 minutes reading pre-briefing - are you not so confident after all?

Strange that you should like to see seniors in same position as you - does it not happen on regular basis in re-checks as with international airlines that take safety seriously?

How are the abilities of xtc affected when dealing with medical emergencies in flight. Does the bottle of Vodka (see Emirates here I come) make up for years of experience, dealing with people and medical problems.
While you think you know it all now in 10 more years or so when you grow up you will notice those who read the manuals while you walk past, and try to make the briefing easy to avoid the embarrassement of offloading crew who don't quite make the mark.

[five percent]

xtc

i do not recall ever having a chitty-chat with you.

I do remember your buddy 'cool' accusing me of having sex with a person I do not know and telling people it is wrong to offer condolences for the death of friends of mine. Thats about as far as it goes.

As a firm believer in 'what goes around - comes around' your unpleasant comments are a mere drop in the ocean and the results anticipated.

[Next Generation PSR]

As far as I'm concerned we all have a responsibility to both our fellow crew members - and more importantly the customers which we fly.

At my briefings (I've got 15 yrs experience and I train) I always ask SEP questions before anything else - flight/service details.

I use a mixture of both scenarios and individual questions which may overlap.

Scenarios work best be they fire, evacuation or in flight medical care.

A typical scenario would be a fire in the cabin, who would fight the fire, which extinguisher would be used, location, operating cautions. Who would tell the Captain, how would they contact them i.e if smoke was present in the forward cabin, what information the Captain needs to know. Who would co-ordinate the emergency (ie. preferably purser), who would be responsible for telling the Captain that the fire was out.

One can actually involve quite a bit of detail in such a scenario.

The route you operate should also set a bias as to which questions may be suitable i.e Egypt/West Africa - desert survival, Canaries/Long Haul - emphasis on water survival equipment, Menorca - child seating restrictions, use of car seats, infant lifejackets etc. A knowledge of your airports as cabin crew can also for the base of questions, such as at Corfu if you over-ran the runway what call from the flight deck would tell you if the aircraft was still on land or in the water? - although you'd probably realise before the call came.

It's one of the best ways of getting the team working and thinking together. I always try to inject a little humour to relax people, and if someone is struggling I'll let them think about a possible answer and come back to them for an answer.

I do find that some struggle regularly, and I have to admit that they are usually the ones who seldom shine onboard providing the best possible service.

I get particularly hacked off with predominantly 20-25 year olds who think they can go out and 'club' till all hours and then show up for work in a tired and unfit condition. Don't tell me when you've been out to 3am, when it's 9am and you are in the crew room looking like a bag of rags, unable to answer your SEP questions and then unable to perform to a high standard on the aircraft. I'd rather not know, because believe me you can bet you'll only do it the once with me.

As for drinking on flights, you are leaving yourself wide open, passengers and fellow crew members are not stupid. Just imagine if you are unable to look after a medical situation correctly because you are intoxicated or hungover - have some professionalism and sense of responsibility,
or just leave and let someone more enthusiastic and responsible take your place - it is obviously not the job for you.

Safety has to be paramount, and in our company it is always top of the pre-flight briefing agenda.




[This message has been edited by Next Generation PSR (edited 21 February 2001).]

[WelshCityFlyer]

Octopus:
Dear, oh dear, oh dear ..... What HAVE I said to upset you?? FOUR postings, relating directly to me, one after the other!! I shall try to answer the points you have made one by one; let me begin:

I do NOT deliberately wind people up, either in crew room, on on the aircraft - it makes my life easier if we all get on

I stand by my original post regarding briefings, most NO1s haven't got a clue on a REGULAR basis - of course they are checked periodically, and only then do a lot of them read up. In other words, they pay 'lip service' to safety most of the time. (I know, I've heard a lot of them discuss this). Let me say here and now, this does by no means apply to ALL NO1s, only certain people. However, one thing I hear discussed on a regular basis, are such fascinating subject like: husbands/boyfriends, where to have the next manicure, make-up brands, etc, etc, etc... Incidentally, I DO work for one of the largest airlines in the UK.

You insinuate that a)I've not worked for an airline for long b)I frequent discos (God - I HATE discos, so I CANNOT answer your question on them) c)You assume that you know my age - you DON'T know my age, and you certainly don't know the answers to points a and b, so please do not assume things.

For the record, I've worked for 3 airlines, for quite a number of years, and have witnessed quite a few happenings: On board emergencies - epilepsy, hyperventillation, heart-attack, violence. Other crisis' - an emergency landing, semi-emergency landing.

Same goes for you, fivepercent - please don't tell me to grow up - I'm probably older and wiser than you are.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with briefings, but they must be done consistently, to test if crew have the knowledge required. What I witness with regards to briefings are that some are hap-hazard, some militant, and others conniving, (i.e. I know some NO1s will deliberately ask someone they don't like an 'off the wall' question, then report them if they answer incorrectly).

The above discrimination unfortunately shows itself quite a lot in various aspects of the cabin crew job, but that's another story .....

WCF

[Octopus]

welsh city flyer

Oops - technical problems with the system frozen last night though now it looks like I can do a good wind up too!

My only criticism of you was the way that you congratulated a very rude person (xtc) on ability to wind people up and I managed to take over in those stakes purely by accident.

While you have gained a lot of experience with several airlines and have been given a negative attitude of seniors spare a thought for those who work for airlines where staff stay longer and learn to respect their seniors who have 20 years of learning and experience in the work they do!

I'm just off to find a new user name now that I have proved that technology takes a little longer to master!

[xtc]

well people

as i have said before and i'll say it again, i did not start the insults and the rudeness, but merely defended myself, and the proof is there for all to see and its obvious that none of you want to see who actually started the insults.

i think welsch saw where i was coming from and got bagged for it as well.

all i can say is take a look at previous posts and then you will all see who is right and wrong.

i will say it again that i never start throwing insults and only defend myself, but i suppose that isn't good enough for all you know it alls.

a simple ? - is it a bad thing to revise your manual from time to time..

it seems that you all think that i think i am too good, well if wanting to know my job and be as prepared as i can for situations which is what we r meant to do.

as for my vodka situation, well sorry for having a gag on that post..
not only it seems that you are all boring but lack a sense of humour as well..

maybe we need cool ek to get back to spice up your lives a little, if i can get her out of my bed................................

thats all .....

[SPICEBOY]

Is she still there?
Why not go join her? PLEASE!
If you make your bed,lie in it.

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Once more onto the beach dear friends!

[GeneralAviation]

So xtc, what have you proved by your series of postings

That you are not a team player - too much 'them and us'

That you are not of a calm temperament - you rise easily and with little provocation, and get quite abusive towards others.

If you feel your attitude is justified, why the need to constantly reassure us that it 'wasn't you' that started it.

If you were really as much of a leader as you claim - you would realise it doesn't matter who started what - it's how you deal with the situation, not who you blame.

Facetious remarks at the expense of others, shows immaturity not clever wit.

Remember, people who are bored are boring.

Now, I don't know you except from what you post here, but that tells me all of the above. It also tells me I could not rely on you, nor would you be good, in an emergency, because that needs a cool head which so far you've signally failed to display.

[Sick Squid]

...and the topic of this thread is....? Sorry, I lost track 'midst all the rancour and slander.

I really hate putting padlocks on threads, but this one is heading that way. The best moderation is self-moderation (some could make the same argument for abuse as well!) and this forum is usually very good at the former.

On topic please, on topic...

Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator

[five percent]

And the topic was safety briefings

A good strict briefing with safety questions and knowledge of answers with corrections where needed works a treat. Throw in a bit of approachability and humour adds a lot of clout.

A very brief covering of points that really hack off seniors should also work well particularly if followed up on aircraft with those who chose to ignore.

The type of crew who think they are better than others from the start usually prove their inadequacies on board the aircraft as reflected in this site! They generally do not stay long with one airline as they become recognised as problem people and drift from one job to another.

For those who are geniuinely not up to scratch training and and follow up can be given in flight with scope for improvement.

[xtc]

well guys and gals

gen aviation, firstly you know nothing about me and the good work on board the a/c, so i'm not about to justify myself.

5 percent - i don't recall having a chitty chat with you and do not remember saying i did, correct me if i am wrong.

spice boy, r you jelous now, i think you r, if you saw cool ek then you would be.

because i said that 9 out of ten briefings r boring, which is true, people r telling me that that means i am boring, or i do not know what i am talking about, or i am immature..........

says alot for the ones holding the briefing.

look, on these posts any one can say what they want or even be who they want to be, but i know that whatever i say is true and correct.. which is probably not the case with the rest of you all.

but i must be making an impact on you all which is a good thing, so shoot me for placing safety as no.1 on the importance list, where as most of you think that service or partying may be more important.

[WelshCityFlyer]

Couldn't agree more...

[flapsforty]

xtc, far from shooting you, I believe all of the contributors here would agree with you that Flight Safety is the most important thing. So that's some common ground arrived at finally! :)

I also agree with you that many briefings are more boring than they need be, and I am under the impression that most of the contributions on this thread have been with the aim of helping eachother make briefings more interesting. I've picked up some pointers which hopefully will improve my briefings.

I don't see that your posts have made any contribution to how we could improve our briefings. I also fail to see why you insisit on posting stuff that offends a bunch of colleagues who try to help eachother. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif
However, we all get our kicks in different ways. And that I can't understand why you write what you write, only proves the old cliché Different strokes for different folks"

(edited for spelling :) )




[This message has been edited by flapsforty (edited 27 February 2001).]

[GeneralAviation]

xtc - I don't remember asking you to justify your position, just pointing out what your postings display about you. True you have no idea who I am - maybe you will have to justify yourself to me one day (who knows).


Meanwhile, listen to Flaps and post how you would improve safety briefings and stop generalising about cabin crew's activities when not flying.



[This message has been edited by GeneralAviation (edited 27 February 2001).]

[comeflywithme]

Guys,guys,guys
start pulling the reins on the horses and slow down abit. I would just like to say that everyone is taking xtc abit to seriously. I am a person who likes to have a say in a good topic and I know so does xtc. Havent you ever just wanted to tell the truth to a passenger that is really annoying you! Well xtc is just telling the truth and there is no need to take it personally. I know you are judging on some of the posts but believe me you couldnt have a better friend on your side than xtc. He is an excellent worker and he give 100% to pax. I as a CSD myself find that some briefings I do do tend to be a bit boring only because some of the crew (at 3 in the morning) dont really give a s?"#. All xtc is saying is that crew should know there stuff and briefings should not be monotonuos.
Fellow crew, do not take these posts personally and try and laugh at the jest at which xtc is displaying. I am 100% sure he is only defending himself at what is being said about him. As sick squid has said lets stick to the topic and not make personal comments which in fact ruin the whole reason we are posting on the message board.

Speak to you all soon.

Oh we are sailing...come give peace a chance. ;)

[Clear IT IN!]

Oh Dear XTC.....
With you're attitiude, I doubt that you'll see another 3yrs as cabin crew....you may not find the briefings interesting enough to keep your tiny brain stimulated, however don't forget that they're are a huge percentage of F/A's in the industry that take there job seriously, and are very professional.
I just hope that you never have to use you're emergency trainig, as in my opinion you'll be woefully inadequate if you only listen to 5% of what you get asked in pre-flight briefings.

[WelshCityFlyer]

Clear it in:

Learn to spell, and use punctuation correctly BEFORE you blast anyone for their opinions.

WCF

[Xenia]

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif
WCF...after your last 2 posts...mainly to correct people spelling or grammar....I was just wondering if you, fed up of your cabin crew life (as far as I can understand)... Would you consider a job as an English teacher? ;)
Maybe, being foreign myself, I could be the first one to get your tuitions :) :)
Oh yes...only one condition.....a radical change of attitude towards life!!!

------------------
*************************Happy Landings! :)
*************************

[five percent]

Just popped in for a quick visit:

Comeflywithme - guess that if you really don't give a s--t at 0300 your attitude is reflected by people like XTC who find briefings very boring.

If the CSD does't give a damn it is well reflected in the rest of the crew and sign of very bad management on board the aircraft.

Some crew have the experience to be well rested and fit to fly at any time - basically reflecting the reason they are employed - brief a crew well - have a good rapport on aircraft and all crew and passengers can go home happy! Service industry at its best I guess!

On the subject of not being able to tell a passenger you are annoyed with them - a little thing that comes with maturity and experience - can be expressed in very nice manner and both come out friends hence good service and passenger that returns.

Positive attitude can count for a lot in life.

XTC may be a 100% person for passengers in your eyes but in other airlines may only measure up about 30% in attitude towards work and consideration for others which is a very important quality in life.

[flyblue]

WCF

sure we don't know your age and professional pedigree, but sure we do know the extent of your immaturity. Yours and xtc. Mature persons are constructively critical, not destructively mean. As Flaps pointed out, you just gossip around slandering people and cathegories without proposing anything constructive. Real masterpiece the post about the spelling. It really qualifies you (how many languages do you speak by the way?). It is the typical mean of those who don't have argumentds: attack the form not the substance. There, I will put some nice and proper spelling misHtakes in order to make you feel superior. Happy?

Ok folks, let's put the kids to bed, too much attention they got until now, and let's start discussing in the usual adult way.

[Sick Squid]

Well, well, well... thought this one had ran it's course, but no.

I'm closing it down. All useful debate has gone on what was a potentially very good topic, despite the actions of several people over and above yours truly to keep it on track... thank you to them, you know who you are.

As I said earlier play the ball, not the player. If someone is antagonising you, just ignore them.... silence can be more deafening than shouting sometimes. If you have nothing constructive or interesting to add to a thread, then please think 3 times before pressing 'send.' Threads do evolve, and it is part of my role as moderator to try to ensure they do that naturally...it is a credit to the overall standard of debate on this forum that I very rarely feel the need to step in.

May I recommend the JetBlast forum for those who do not agree with the above. Plenty of scope for debate and wind-up in there, and you also get to show just how clever you are occasionally.

While I'm here, another thing... any further posts from any member of either the "Spelling Police" or the "Special Punctuation Squad" which do nothing other than assert that persons superior perceived grasp of the English language, will be deleted. All they do is distract from the topic of the thread, antagonise contributors and potentially lead to the kind of pathetic name-calling that existed under this topic.

If you have a problem with that, well, tough, take it to the English Teachers Rumour Network. This is a forum for flying and for flyers in all their many colours... if you really must correct anyone, go over to Seattle and tell Mr Boeing how to spell "a.e.r.o.p.l.a.n.e" first.

To sum up... keep them on topic, don't slag each other off (it's very cheap to do so under the guise of anonymity) and don't waist the server bandwith with "Well, if you can't spell you shouldn't be complaining!" See, I can't spell waste, and I'm complaining, ergo, it's OK!

Sick Squid
Cabin Crew Forum Moderator

(Edited, but for neither punctuation nor spelling... content and meaning are more important. Along with not slagging off your mates just because you can.)



[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 17 April 2001).]