delhi airport

[teghjeet]

what do you guys operating think about the new changes in op procs?

[Pushpak]

what are the changes?? not been there for a while..
Thanks

[hptaccv]

Don't know about any new procedures, but having been there about 2 weeks ago, it was terrible. 1 hour start up delay with a lot of :ugh: :ugh: and :mad:

[galaxy flyer]

That's the change--down to only ONE hour. But I did quick turn there DXB-VIDP_VOBG last month in 1+15, utterly amazing!

[teghjeet]

Earlier with simultaneous rwy ops, 27 was used for domestic cepartures and 28 for all arrivals and intl dep.
Now, after a series of near misses...
All departures 27 and all arrivals 28 during both rwy ops else only single rwy ops.
Standard holding for arrival 30-45 mins .
Apparently the earlier they could manage 42 arr/deps per hour and now it is down to 30.
On ground delays remain

[Gp Capt Bhanerjee]

teghjeet:

You are correctly pointing out convergence of Rwys 27 and 28 has caused very close near-misses.

But when using in opposite direction these two runways diverge (09 and 10). But thanks to ingenuity of Indian bureaucracy, aircraft availing of this possible safe departure have to take right turn after getting airborne from either runway and thus converge (this is not a joke), because politicians live beneath straight flight path.

[teghjeet]

08 09???
have you been flying lately groupie?
it is 09 and 10... opposite of 27 and 28.

Using them for departures , both have to turn right becoz of a Prohibited airspace of the Presidential Palace and not the politicians.
Also only 28 is cat III approved. and has the least minimums in terms of visibility and Ceiling requirements, in use most of the year,
09 has no ILS... and a VORDME approach reduces the number of flights per hour.

[Pushpak]

(08 and 09) i thought the rwy's were 10 and 09 if they really did realign why not make them parallel??

[teghjeet]

they were not realigned. Diff in tracks is 13 deg, 271 and 284.

[Gp Capt Bhanerjee]

teghjeet:

My apologies, 09 and 10, of course.

(My keyboard is made in India, so 8, 9 and 10 keys too much close!

[teghjeet]

you have a key for 10???

Are you real?

[noblues]

I regularly operate a 744 into DEL.

Interesting the local and national Indian papers had half page and front page stories last week on this, and the potential 'further' delays its going to cause.

I understand this is a 'trial'.

Since its introduction I have landed on both 27 and 28, but it seems 28 is only available at quieter night periods or (hopefully) during CAT II/II ops.

The new runway is due for completion in mid 2008? Hopefully this is a temporary measure until that is up and running.

27 is considerably shorter than 28, and they tend to favour westerly ops sometimes with tailwinds. It will be interesting if they will let heavy traffic dep/arrive on 28 if they so request.

The rapid expansion of Indian low cost carriers in the past few years has severly over stretched all of the major airports and ATC ....

[TopBunk]

I am operating into DEL in a few days time.

What times of day are the 30-45 minutes delays expected - it appears that our flight arriving after midnight local is not encountering and delays, which I guess makes sense as I guess most domestic traffic will be finished for the night by then.

Having said that, in BOM some days ago, it was still busy inbound after midnight local - effectively given 10 minutes vectoring delay.

[nil desperandum]

Recent arrival into New Delhi (22/12) at midnight local time incurred holding of approx. 35 minutes. No weather problems, just busy.

[Bluasfly]

As someone who operates in to Delhi on a regular basis, the place is an accident waiting to happen!
When you arrive after midnight and find you are one of thirty odd aircraft being vectored all over the sky at various speeds it does not inspire confidence in ATC, I think think should borrow a few London controlers to show them the stacking in the hold system instead of the mess it is at the momement.

[DesiPilot]

Well, the new procedure is to use runway 28 for all departures and runway 27 for all arrivals as long as the visibility is above 2000m. Once the viz drops below that they are back to single runway ops.

Also for all arrival from E, SE expect to hold over SSB.

The holding time can be as much as an hour while single runway ops are in use.

[TopBunk]

No holding at 0115 local! Number 2 in the sky at about 80 nm!

[avionneta]

@bluasfly
those controlers must have been trained by english staff, and it's pretty good except the limitations due to infrastructure and some bad habits to call for taxi instructions while landing. linear holding is probably safer than stack. they use linear holding at LHR, don't they ?
At Delhi after midnight there should no delay. in Mumbai it is rather after 1 am.
extreme caution needed at taxi since holding at not clearly marked at night. no lights, no markings except on the taxiway itself. the accident will come from that way.

[ALPHA FLOOR]

From our company notams valid through to 30 march 08

BTN 0030-0730 AND 1030-1630 DAILY
TWO RWY OPS ON TRIAL BASIS:
1. WHEN RWY IN USE IS 28 & 27, ALL DEPARTURES TO USE RWY28 AND ALL
ARRIVALS TO USE RWY27 (VISIBILITY CRITERIA: VISIBILITY 1600 M IF SMR
AVBL AND 2000 M IF SMR NOT AVBL) OR
2. WHEN RWY IN USE IS 10 & 09, ALL DOMESTIC DEPARTURES TO USE RWY 09
ALL ARRIVALS AND INTERNATIONAL DEPARTURES TO USE RWY 10. (VISIBILITY
CRITERIA : VISIBILITY 1000M IF SMR AVBL AND 2000M IF SMR NOT AVBL).

[deesultory]

well i would like to invite u folks at delhi atc and see what the controllers are achieving with the given resources. perhaps u ur eyes blink in wonder. i assure u any controller in the world will not be able to achieve better then what services u r getting unless the infrastructure improves
and airspace constraints are removed .....

[galaxy flyer]

Couple of nights ago, no delay at 130 AM, number 2 behind a B744. Wx 700m with 2000 RVR. About 15 minutes delay outbound the next afternoon to BOM, I expected long linear holding (love that term) and rather surprised to find little delays. Usually evenings in BOM are a mess until midnight.

Not listening up on the radios does get a lecture from ATC, overheard, NOT me.

GF

[Bluasfly]

Delhi Airport has been the subject of many MOR s and I have talked to a senior ATC who admitted that the equipment and traiining were less than what was needed. Instead of improving the terminal and building a new runway they should invest in the infrastructure first.
GET THAT RIGHT and the rest will follow.