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Jbroey3
27th Dec 2007, 05:21
The Truth about Shenzhen / Kunpeng Flight Academy in China
(and Chinese Flight School Operations in General)

Hello all, I would like to better inform potential instructors to the
"opportunities" with Shenzhen Kunpeng and other Chinese flight schools.

The truth should be shown to all prospective CFI's looking to work in China
with this school (or any "Flight" school in China).

What I am about to write is factual and doesn't involve any "Bias" or
non-truths; on the contrary, this is sadly enough how the operations work
here.

I ask you all to read this in its entirety (grab a coffee, or whatever you
need, because this is unfortunately a long post) in order to open any
"prospective eyes " as to why you should or shouldn't come here.

What I am about to say is written frankly, and at no time will I be a
politician and dance around issues, or downplay the facts. I tell it like it is,
and if it is good or bad, both are explained.

Additionally, what I am about to show and tell you all will illustrate:



what most foreigners currently in China have either experienced, and then left the country (due to utter frustration)



what most foreigners never experienced for themselves first hand thus remaining oblivious, (false senses of security here)



That most foreigners (not usually Americans) simply have no other perceived place to go (job opportunities) and thus remain silent.



That most foreigners may not know the "inner-truths" of the situation because they are not in connection with the decision makers,



That most Foreigners do not know how to effectively cause change.


The Main Topics that I will cover are:

1.) Who I am and why I know these things

2.) The connection with Shenzhen / Kunpeng Flight Academy

3.) The Concept of "Flight Training / Learning" in China

4.) The Shenzhen / Kunpeng Contract (the Real (invalid) one Vs the one that has been created for the betterment of ALL future pilot instructors and the company)

5.) Real-life examples showing the result of incompetent and incorrect
training (sponsored by the "Academies" and the CAAC)

6.) Future Goals and the required steps needed to improve the current
situation to reach those goals.


1.) Background: To give you all some brief background of who I am,
what I have seen, and known here in China:

I have been a quality control / assurance instructor here (in China), and my
job has entailed teaching Chinese airline cadets as well as the Chinese
Military how to convert their military flying skills (which sadly / surprisingly
enough 98% are, student-pilot level at best) into a civilian standard and
then onto an "Instructor" level of competence.

I read, write, and speak Chinese with a level of proficiency that allows me
to do all of spoken communications, (with ATC, Students, and the Military)
using Chinese. Because of this, doors into the inner workings of how
operations are carried out, and connections to certain levels within the
management structure between different companies have been revealed to
me.


2.) Shenzhen / Kunpeng Connections: To start, I have been in direct
connection (Close friends) with this location's (Shenzhen / Kunpeng)
president and company colleagues and have actually known the president
of Shenzhen / Kunpeng Academy before this location even opened it's
doors.

The president of the academy is actually the ex-president / ex-vice
president from the tremendous screw-up known as "Pan Am" from China,
Ie., Beijing Pan Am International Flight Academy. (Which unfortunately is
the "better" choice of schools to work for in China at the moment)

Do be aware that Beijing Pan Am International Flight Academy has
absolutely nothing to do with the "American Pan Am International Flight
Academy". No affiliation whatsoever.

The Shenzhen / Kunpeng Flight academy, like all other flight academies in
China, are essentially a joke, unfortunately not a funny one. I will in full
detail, explain to you all why.

This "new" location, which is not particularly new at all has been in
operation for over 7 months now. I have been there myself on personal
visits to meet the president and his colleagues in order To review and
obtain a clearer understanding of their current operations.

Now I will tell you that the "Shenzhen / Kunpeng (Wuzhou)" 深圳航
空学校, 梧州机场 location looks nice, and is by far a nicer training
environment than anything that I've seen in comparison to the Pan Am
locations in China (and yes I've been to them all).

It is also true that plans have been in the works for a location down on the
southern part of China near the Ocean. (Farther south than Macau) and the
like.

From the last that I spoke with my contact(s) at Shenzhen Kunpeng
Academy, there were 3 full time instructors (Foreign), Only two of which
are actually flying because the other two are still in the process of well,
waiting (I will explain further in section 4.). Additionally, one part time
instructor (Foreign), and a few Chinese instructor hopefuls are there.

3.) The Chinese Concept of Training:In China, the standards of
Training are extremely low, in fact doing one's best is not particularly the
goal nor is learning the actual "true" objective.

On the contrary, passing of illegitimate tests, cheating, and simply logging
hours in a logbook to meet a TCO requirement are the normal everyday
occurrences that are prevalent.

You will be amazed at the levels of utter incompetence and corruption that
prevail throughout everyday life in these "schools."

Touching on Corruption; There have been cases where a Chinese
student(s) (military & airline pilot trainee(s)) may actually "fail" a Flight Test
but there have been numerous cases where the student will bribe and
actually pay off the "CAAC EXAMINER" via money or by taking such
examiners to dinner and drinks.

The student has then suddenly "Passed" the flight test and is issued a
CAAC PPL or CPL Certificate. Interesting isn't it?

A fundamental problem with "China" and flight training locations are that
Students, (Chinese pilot-instructor hopefuls), Management, Maintenance,
and other working company personnel are inherently unable to take
responsibility for being "responsible."

What does this mean you ask?

In China, the concept of "Face" (面子) or "Saving Face" requires that if you
do not know what you are doing, you will continue to do so even if it is
wrong and if something negative happens as a result of your incompetence,
it is not your responsibility, or better yet, It can't be, because you've done
nothing wrong.

Ironically enough, this is a reason to allow for things to never get
accomplished because of the fear of having to experience a "loss of face."

It is a circle of ignorance and I have experienced from almost day 1 nearly
every day.

Tasks that typically require a minimum of a day in Europe, the Americas,
Australia, and even Africa, literally require weeks to be accomplished most
of the time in China and most of the times, tasks needing to be
accomplished, simply never come to fruition.

This is not due to lack of "infrastructure" or technology. No, No,. it is a
combination of incompetence due to lack of life experience, improper
schooling, social dysfunctions, cultural pressures, and age old traditions.
These are the examples of why things are not done the most efficient,
proper, and sound way.

Another reason is because of an utter inability to want to excel, I.e,.
laziness. Again, this all stems outward as a result of "Chinese life" in
general. Forward thinking is seldom something that is pushed or even known
about.

Here is an extremely basic example of the inability to allow self responsibility
and how this relates to the Training Environment. This can be illustrated by
the simple yet common practice of traffic pattern work (Circuit Training).

In China, because of the inherent inability to make sound decisions, or
better yet, because of the fact that Chinese people have never been given
an opportunity to make sound decisions on their own, limits have been
imposed, and every single flight training circuit (Traffic Pattern) and thus
"Circuit" training is a "Controlled Event."

The idea, or even the concept of allowing more than 3~4 aircraft in a
traffic pattern without an ATC controller is incomprehensible to the Chinese.

The idea of actually using one's own eyes and ears to maintain self
awareness is a concept that they can not grasp for fear of the
responsibility of any incident / accident coming back to bite them.

The sad thing is that such a basic, core flight requirement of see and avoid
is something that needs to be developed and allowed to be practiced in
order to actually gain experience as an aviator, but again, this is something
that they don't "get."

Ultimately, any and all students training in China at this point in time, even
with an excellent instructor as their teacher will never receive the same
quality of experience that even the most basic of other countries' pilots
receive. It is a fundamental flaw in the system here going all the way back
to the "face" issue, that prevents actual training to be accomplished in any
logical and "real" sense.

Additionally, and extremely Ironically enough, The ATC controllers at these
so-called "Schools" are students 98% of the time themselves.

It truly is a situation of the Blind leading the Blind.

To give you an Idea of how utterly inefficient the system is here, another
example.

You are flying in a training area location (A box of airspace that you are
restricted to, I.e, 2 miles wide, 2 miles long and perhaps 1000 feet of
vertical height), 15 miles away from the airport and suddenly ATC (yes the
student ATC controllers) report that an inbound flight is due to arrive in 40
minutes.

Well, that's great you think, let them arrive and leave us out of it. Bzzzt,
wrong answer. The inbound flight is a CRJ and that means clear the sky. So
even though the inbound flight has absolutely nothing to do with you, and
additionally, has absolutely no chance of even being remotely in a sector
near to you, you are required to return to the airport and thats it, training
complete.

Now there are "some" rare cases that you may be able to goto another
"box" and wait for the mighty CRJ to accomplish his arrival, but that is more
of a rarity or if you happen to be in the "right" / "lucky" Box that day.

I could go on and on for hours, days even, about the intricate inadequacies
of the system here and how it prevents a proper educational learning
environment for pilots, but let's move onto the next topic.

4.) The Shenzhen / Kunpeng Flight Academy Contract: What you don't
know, actually read, or understand can and will hurt you.

The flight instructors (remember only 2 are actually flying and that is
because they are prior Pan Am employees that obtained their CAAC
License), that are flying, are unhappy and actually would like to leave the
place to return back to Pan Am.

However because of the VISA rules and connection to the CAAC in regards
to flying jobs, if any of these pilots left the flying company to jump ship for
another one, it could put the other flight company in jeopardy. Ie,.
Shenzhen Kunpeng could possibly sue another Chinese flight school.

Chinese law is very errm "different" and essentially there is a no-competition
clause (that is not mentioned) but exists among both academies.

To give you an idea of the corruption, unprofessionalism and inherent lies or
simple complete ignorance of the reality of the sitiation that you will be
told (by Christine, or by Lily, or other HR department personnel) in order to
get you to China, I will be listing several examples pertaining to their
still-learning operation.

Additionally, I have included 3 versions of the Contractual Agreement for
ANY potential flight instructor to view.

The three versions of the Contractual Agreement are :


The Current and most updated original Contract being given to potential Flight instructor candidates (about as invalid as one can come)


The NEW and fully professional integrity-filled contract that is refused to be used by the Academy in English



The NEW and fully professional integrity-filled contract that is refused to be used by the Academy in Chinese


I along with the help of other aviation professionals and with the direct
consent of Shenzhen Kunpeng Academy have re-written and essentially
from the ground up created a New Contractual Agreement for the Academy.
The purpose of this was to make the Academy stand by it's word and also
to be truthful, with a lasting integrity to those who choose to join
Shenzhen Kunpeng Academy.

This was a necessary process to to "weed" out false promises and other
illegal and wrong training practices and other "Chinese" flight training issues
that are so prevalent in China such as ( VFR training of students in 1.3
kilometers of visibility, no weight and balance calculation, instrument training before basic PPL license etc etc.)

The Contract: You will find the Current Shenzhen Kunpeng Academy
Contractual Agreement as well as the New and professional version that the
company doesn't want you to see or know about under the following links.

Original and Current misleading Contract (that they did adopt a very FEW
clauses / parts from ours and implement them into this newer Academy
version) http://www.mediafire.com/?3jo1om5mv1y

English Contract that is updated by our team that they don't want you to see
http://www.mediafire.com/?0avya1sdy1j

Chinese Contract that is updated by our team that they don't want you to see
http://www.mediafire.com/?3ntm1twywby

Just to give you all some basic examples of HOW their Current contract is
completely ridiculous with no real intent to back any of the said promises, I
shall give you some examples:

They make references to various clauses or different sections that simply
don't exist or exist in the wrong locations. Now I hope you ask yourselves,
would you really like to work for an Academy / Company that can not even
make a valid and legal document ?

How about for example, a Document that tells you two versions exist, an
English copy (the one that you, the potential employee would be signing),
and a Chinese version (which you will also be signing). However, in the
same English document that you sign, there is a clause that states, If there
are any differences between the English Version and the Chinese Version,
the Chinese version shall be the one that takes effect / precedence.

How about the fact as I mentioned before about "waiting," that upon your
arrival into Shenzhen, your newly joined company doesn't particularly know
themselves how to prepare you for the start of flying operations?

Shenzhen Kunpeng Academy has come to me directly looking for ideas on
the process of starting any newly hired instructors to enable them to start
flying as quickly as possible.

Would you not find it strange that a Company owned in part by a Major
Chinese airline would not already have the proper procedures and methods
of enabling newly hired instructors to perform their jobs after arrival?

Interesting isn't it? One would think that things would be better prepared /
handled prior to allowing instructors arriving. The result? Kunpeng may
have numerous instructors waiting, sitting, doing other busy work while the
Academy figures out how to get these newly hired instructors "China"
qualified.

Enough of that, simply review the contracts and decide for yourselves.
Moving on..

5.) Real life examples (outcomes) as a result of the serious Training
Deficiencies that have occurred within China with more frequency
than any other location on Earth:


Controlled flight into another aircraft at night in the traffic pattern: Cause, student trained to watch G1000 during 99% of flight and not outside.



Numerous prop strikes: Cause, students never being shown proper methods of Visual flight maneuvers in addition to seat position always being too low during the landing phase.


Near miss Air / Ground collision after takeoff in Twin engine Aircraft: Cause, Chinese Military Instructor improperly certificated by CAAC Flight Test. (Pilot departed had engine failure( in DA-42 twin) and immediately pulled the aircraft into a hard bank back towards the runway while nearly missing an aircraft that was performing the takeoff roll.)



Gear and Tire damage: Cause, Inability for Chinese Instructor-wannabe (hopefuls) to land without side loading aircraft (absolutely zero rudder usage)



Aircraft lost, and hazardously close to factories and mountains in low visibilities: Cause, Chinese Military (Instructor) -post Checkride, VFR flight transitioning to IMC conditions without proper aeronautical Charts and in ability to fly on Instruments proficiently.



Chinese Military Instructors incorrectly flying PPL, CPL, and IFR Maneuvers: Cause, Pilots taught by previous Military Pilot instructors that have no idea what they are doing in the first place, then signed off for CAAC administered Check Rides with minimums of 10 hours previously flown.



Students being released for solo operations by instructors never having flown with them, with prop strike and wing damages as a result: Cause, Instructor incompetence and lack of common sense.



Military Flight Instructor off runway crash: Cause, complete and utter incompetence. Sub-Cause: CAAC administrator allowing unprepared and inexperienced pilots to take and falsely pass CAAC flight tests.


Below is a quick read of a more detailed report concerning the last bullet
point mentioned above:

What this "instructor" allowed to happen is a mistake that no pilot,
especially an "Instructor pilot", should ever do. We all (should) know that
take-off and landings / approaches are one of the most dangerous / task
saturated time periods with regard to flight safety and require our utmost
attention to detail.

Before take-off checks and last minute line-up checks are things that
should be so ingrained by the (proper) usage of flow-checks and checklist
completion and planning, that they become second nature.

For our aircraft here and per our SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures), at
anytime prior to takeoff (for a controllable pitch aircraft), we verify that the
mixture is set to optimum (based on density altitude / temperature), that
the fuel pumps are on, the propeller is full Forward, and that power is
smoothly applied from 0 percent to 100 percent over a 3~5 second time
period.

During this power application time period of 3~5 seconds, we are also
scanning the engine instruments to verify that we reach our maximum RPM
of 2700 +/- 20rpm and that all engine indications are "green" and no
abnormal engine "sounds" or "vibrations / shaking of the aircraft is
occurring.

The key thing to also be aware of is that during power application (3~5
seconds), the aircraft "may" move forward a total of about 10 ~ 15 feet
maximum. Now, during this time, checking and verifying that the aircraft is
ready to "go", (3~5 seconds + engine stabilization time = approx 7 seconds)
determines whether we continue or discontinue the takeoff phase.

What this "instructor" did is created two problems for himself that were
unnecessary. First he chose to take off from an intersection that left him
with VERY little runway remaining and Second, did NOT put the propeller
into the full forward (high RPM) position. As a result of this, after full power
application, the engine never reached the required RPM due to the prop
lever being only half way forward.

Not only did he forget / not follow checklist procedures, he then continued
to not check and verify that the engine was only producing a fraction of
it's power.

A hint would have been clear as day, had he looked at the Engine prop
lever position, looked at the instruments and even more obvious, listened
to the sound of the engine.

As the aircraft continued to roll forward, obviously much slower than
normally expected, the "take-off" roll was becoming longer and longer. This
is mind boggling, because not only did the "instructor" allow the aircraft to
continue rolling forward, gaining speed extremely slowly, he allowed the
aircraft to continue until eventually (just barely) reaching Vr.
The problem with this is that at that point he didn't have enough runway
remaining in front of him.

Unable to climb or gain speed, the airplane never "lifted off the ground."
The instructor at that point and at that point only decided to close the
throttle. What he forgot to do was apply the brakes. Not once did the
instructor apply the brakes in any effort to stop on the runway or the
over-run area. Mind boggling, considering that this instructor previously flew
Mig 29's, isn't it?

The airplane went off the runway, and during it's "stroll" through the dirt
"off-roading," the propeller hit rocks, damaging the engine (which requires
the engine to be torn down completely and inspected, or a new
replacement engine etc).

Now here is a "crash course" (yes yes, pun intended) into some of the
"Chinese CAAC" logic that we are dealing with. Considering that we know
what happened, and that the airplane's propeller eventually "hit rocks," the
bright minds at the CAAC determined that "If the airport did not have
"rocks" (big or small) out side of the runway environment, this situation
would have never been a real "problem."

If you aren't rolling your eyes by now, I'll do it for you.

I would / could only imagine that in any other country, the idea of the
"rocks" being the "problem" is laughable at best.

This is a typical story of an event that was completely preventable, but
once again, because of the way that "Training / Learning" is accomplished
here, this is the result.

And with that onto the next subject..

6.) Future goals and how to achieve them: We all should have safety
as the number one priority in any flight. Safety, however is something that
comes as a result of proper training techniques, high standards being
upheld, and nothing but the greatest of performance expected throughout
the initial and continuing stages of becoming a pilot.

For anyone choosing to come to these locations, you need to be in it for
two specific purposes. Of course you need to be more adventurous and
willing to travel the world and be "out of your element" a bit, but on a more
important note, you need to be willing to ALWAYS do your best regardless
of the pressures that you WILL come across to be mediocre.

You also need to be able to teach well enough and truly break down their
social / cultural walls to get them to in full honesty, apply what you have
taught them otherwise the moment that you leave and a typical Chinese
Military instructor comes in to the picture, they will CONTINUE to fall back
into the problems that have existed before.

Foreign Flight Instructor Teams need to also stick together on issues involving
anything ranging from Flight Standards to Medical insurance, to what food the
cafeteria is serving on Thursday's.

And, yes, I am serious because otherwise the Chinese will try to manipulate
you.

All wishing to come need to be willing to not fear reprisal from corrupt
company leaders for doing the safe and CORRECT thing AT ALL TIMES.

Training should be carried out according to PERFORMANCE of the student in
the eyes of the qualified instructor, not by a piece of paper that has an
"hourly" flight requirement to be met.

In closing this long long post, I'd like to say that China does have great
potential, but it also has HUGE problems that are innately connected to its
5,000 + years of history and in the way in which it accomplishes things.

Any questions or comments are welcomed.

Thanks for reading

purple head
28th Dec 2007, 15:25
For anyone not in China and thinking of working here, this is a frank and good picture of the Chinese training. As someone who has done some training in China, CPL & IR test (with 12 hours prep training when converting a foreign licence, 20 hours high performance training (flying to a training area and flying a square pattern using GPS and flight director- just to get the 20 hours done and ticked rather than any useful practical training- cost the airline over 140,000 RMB for this tick in the box) and type rating.Actually the simulator training for the type rating was to a high standard and i needed to do 30 (YES THIRTY) take off and landings in a actual 737 and 100 hours in the jump seat before being able to sit right seat and start line training with passengers. I can not agree more with this post concerning problems of training. Things are slowly changing, but in China slow can mean very slow.

Jbroey3
31st Dec 2007, 09:27
I've been receiving quite a bit of private messages from different people asking further about the situation in China and would like to encourage -=anyone=- with any direct questions for me, to go ahead and ask me.

You can ask here or you can Private Message me, no problem, all will be answered to the best of mine and others knowledge about what is happening -=NOW=- in these companies.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to better inform all of you.

-JoE

Jbroey3
7th Jan 2008, 18:11
As mentioned before, quite a few people have been enlightened to the situation here and as a request I would like to know if this could be made as a sticky of sorts to better inform those who may not be in the immediate "know."

There are also many changes happening at one of these companies currently that may be a first real step in the right direction.

Situation developing.

-Joe

mingalababya
8th Jan 2008, 10:11
There are also many changes happening at one of these companies currently that may be a first real step in the right direction.

Situation developing.

-Joe

G'day Joe, would you be able to give us some hints on the developments that's happening at this company? As for which company it is, is it the one primarily located in Baotou?

Thanks again in advance.

Cheers!

J

Always Moving
27th Jan 2008, 04:10
It is good and somewhat objective.
Good job Jo.

You should told the guys a few good things too.
The friends and network, the food, the cheap travel and parties....
So if you are not doing much China is not a bad place to hang out. Just do not go with a mission in mind, just be a drifter or a stealthER.

169west
16th Sep 2010, 11:58
... just to bring this thread back in the top 5

Jo do you have any recent up-date! thanks

Fareastdriver
16th Sep 2010, 20:54
We know that Beijing Pan Am folded a couple of years ago. That was a shame. The posts from their members were some of the most entertaining on pprune.

Always Moving
17th Sep 2010, 01:39
I heard that Beijing PanAm is coming back with a new name.....

The Phoenix.

May be we have more fun..... if the name is an indication of the characters involved in the comeback

Henry09
17th Sep 2010, 02:31
Hi folks
I am new here. I found the article above very interesting and it must have taken a long time to write, then I noticed the date. Has anything changed in the last couple of years?

thornycactus
15th Nov 2010, 07:37
I am new here. I found the article above very interesting and it must have taken a long time to write, then I noticed the date. Has anything changed in the last couple of years?
I went to the Kunpeng Flying Academy flight safety seminar late-January this year.

There is a Singaporean there and the Mainlander Chinese are pretty amazed and fascinated that he is well conversed in both English and Mandarin.

Looks like Singaporeans can work in China in future and may be a break through for Singaporean pilots. :)

skdvr1
30th Apr 2011, 05:44
Has anyone heard anything more recent than the 'ThornyCactus' post of 2007? I am in Wozhou now and have seen good and bad things. I think they are considering a shutdown. Is there any word on a replacement?

UncleGrandFather
15th Jun 2012, 03:00
Jbroey I sent you an email. I am considering working as jump pilot in Futian District, Shenzhen. Let me know if you got it. Thanks.

nomorecatering
15th Jun 2012, 11:07
I currently train Chinese Airline cadets, thankfuly in Australia.

I see the same attitudes here, with the students but they are swiftly but temporarily stamped out. We have no qualms about failing a student. They soon get the message, but I gather they go back to their old ways when they go home.

They can be nice to your face, and backstab you at the same time.

Having said that, I have made some good friends from the students I have had over the years. Some are actually as good as western guys n gals. I thinks its the ones who have travelled outside china in their formative years that makes the difference.

Pegasispilot
26th Jun 2012, 21:43
Hello, or should I say ni hao! My Chinese wife lives in Changsha, China. She will not retire for another 3 years. I have a Insurance Business in Las Vegas, Nevada. I teach flying in the evenings and on weekends. I would really like to find a flight instructor's job near Changsha. I speak some Chinese and learning more everyday. I have built three airplanes myself, and would love to help develope the General aviation in China. I appreciate all of the information that you provided. Having lived in China for months on end, I believe everything you have stated to be true. Do you have any thoughts on starting a flight School in Changsha? Sounds like that would be just about impossible. I even thought about starting to build an experimental aircraft there. What about forming a Chinese EAA group? Thanks for listening. Blue Skies!

Always Moving
13th Jul 2012, 03:33
To starts try AOPA CHINA

Build a plane here YES good idea no problem.
Helping GA..... just build your plane (I thought you said you lived in China before)
Being a flight instructor for you is impossible ground instructor possible.

Good luck,

AM