B777 - lack of Ox

[irishflyer]

Does anyone else suffer from the feeling of lack of oxygen on the 777? If you do please let add your comments.

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[Porcupine]

I know they give a raging headache after about 7 hours,and no I,m not hungover.

[Tallbloke]

Lowly pax, however I have felt slightly breathless on 777, I am due on one from Detroit next Monday, which was nice!

[captcat]

Never had any problem. It is definitely the best aircraft I have ever flown. Ours are quite new though.

[cossack]

KUL-MAN on MAS early this year was no problem.
13 hours 25 minutes, several sleeping tablets and 4 litres of water.
Felt as good as you would expect in economy!

[irishflyer]

REGARDING THE OX ON THE 777 OR LACK OF IT!OURS ARE QUITE NEW TOO AND ARE ACTUALLY THE NEWEST BUT I GUESS YOU ARE QUITE NEW TOO OR YOU YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN,BUT A FEW MORE YEARS FLYING AND YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!

[VnV2178B]

Also only pax, but had the misfortune to be stuck in one of Nigel's newest tubes from Gatwick to MoBay. I put the tiredness down to the long day but the FA in our sector looked like she might faint by the time we reached descent. On checking the FA in the other aisle she too was holding onto the seats as she moved and her eyes were closing. Had previously only done the trip in Airbuses (and NOT with Nigel) and never experienced the same feelings. Vowed immediately never again, pity really as I was quite looking forward to travelling in a 777 beforehand.

VnV...
Packs to MAX, please.

[captcat]

I have been flying for TOO LONG but anyway never experienced any lack of oxygen on 777.
I had problems on BA146 and A320 but NEVER on 777. It is the opnly aircraft I feel quite fit after I get off a LOOOONGhaul flight.

[exeng]

VnV2178B

Has it ever crossed your mind that the Cabin Crew might be extremely tired, no matter what A/C they may be operating?

I operated the 777 for only 1 year and could see no difference from any other types (747 & 737).

Still people just love to believe in any conspiracy.


Regards
Exeng

[VnV2178B]

Exeng,
yes, the fact we were at the end of a long trip must have been a factor, but it was just the difference in the appearance of BA crew on that B777 and AirJam crew in the Airbus on which I had done the same trip (OK, from LHR not LGW) previously. The former 'dead on their feet' and the latter bouncing about. I would like to hear the views from the respective insiders on this.
Also could add that coming back the bloke in front of me went in to a asthma attack and was on oxygen for about half the trip. His family claimed that he normally travelled OK and hadn't had a problem outbound.
My feelings remain that I won't go BA on a 777 again unless I really have to but that is just my opinion.

VnV...
Hell? no - but I have flown Sabena ! :)

edit: to explain how AirJam got in on the act !



[This message has been edited by VnV2178B (edited 27 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by VnV2178B (edited 27 October 2000).]

[SussexAirwaysPurser]

Must admit that I get off the 777 after a flight feeling noticably more lethargic than after a flight on the 747-400 or 767....have suffered nosebleeds on 2 occasions (never before on 11 other a/c types) and very dry bloodshot eyes which I rarely get on the other a/c either. Many crew also have a whiff or 2 of O2 to try & alleviate symptoms...
Maybe these are just coincidences...but I have a feeling that 13.5hr LGW-EZE flights aren't going to be as popular when the route moves to 777 ops next summer.

[Psr777]

The reason the FA could have looked as if she was about to faint was probably becauseshe had just operated LGW - KIN 91/2 hours and entitled to no rest, about 1 1/4 hours on the ground in KIN and then onto MBJ. Only the flight crew get off in KIN, the cabin crew stay with the aircraft, and if the flight is on a Thursday, they get a layover of about 18 hours before flying MBJ-KIN-LGW!

That is probably the reason she was dropping of her feet!!!

Regards

[VnV2178B]

Two thoughts there (although rather off-topic, I'm afraid)
if the FAs do those sort of hours how can they be expected to look after the pax especially in any emergency condition?
if they do get 18 hours break they surely deserve every minute: and it probably is still insufficient from what I remember from my human factors course.

But,if the anecdotal evidence is to be believed, there does seem to be something odd about the 777. Does anyone know of an objective, scientific and foolproof method of determining gas levels in the atmosphere and also have there been any studies into how the level affect performance ?

VnV...

[Dangerous_Dave]

As you will know VnV the FA are very well aware of the human factors relating to their job, as I am sure you are aware of the health risk related to sitting infront of a computer all day, writing software. Does RSI mean anything to you? Of course the FA looked tired. They had been on their feet, looking after about 350 people who didn't seem to know the words "Thankyou" or "Please", or "Excuse Me", only "Give me this", "Get me that", or "I Want".

I am not saying that there isn't a problem with air quality on the B777. I have operated as a FA on the B777 for almost 2 years, and do notice a difference while in flight from the aircraft I have operated in the past (B737, B757, B767, A320, A321, DC10).

[LadyMatilda]

From time to time I come across cabin crew that have no idea where the air which they breath in the cabin comes from. Some believe that the flight deck crew give themselves all the "Oxygen" and the leftovers are for the cabin. This is obviously hogwash and we all breath the same air (which is why no smoking should be allowed on aeroplanes, but that is another war.....).

No-one seems to explain the basic technical workings of an airliner to cabin crew during their ab-initio training. So for the benefit of those who would like to know, here is a very short (or maybe not) simplified explaination.

When a airliner is on the ground with the doors open, the pressure inside the cabin is equal to the pressure outside. No sh!t I hear you say. Bear with me.
Once airborne the pressure outside the cabin reduces as the aircraft climbs, so to enable everyone to breath air is vented from the engines via PACKS into the cabin (called BLEED AIR). The temperature of this air is high when exiting the engines and it has to be cooled before being introduced to the cabin. By adjusting the temperature of this air, we have air conditioning.
Pressurisation is achieved by trapping air inside the cabin and allowing only a little to escape for the purpose of ventilation and cabin pressure differential regulation. Let me explain the latter. The airframe structure can only sustain a certain amount of pressure from the inside before it POPS (much like a baloon), so to keep a cabin altitude of 1000 feet for example the aircraft would only be able to climb to about 15000'. Should it continue to climb while maintaining the 1000 feet cabin altitude would mean eventual structural failiure. Increasing the altitude of the aircraft therefore requires increasing the altitude of the cabin. The engines still "pump" in the same amount of air, but the excess air is now vented via the outflow valves which keep this differential at a favourable and safe level.

All this means that at 35000' the cabin altitude would normaly be in the region of 5000 - 6000 feet depending on aircraft type.
Longer flights (especially on B777) normally end up at 39000 - 41000 feet. As the cabin altitude increases the light headness that you feel might be a mild case of hypoxia attributed to the fact that you are physically active (running around the cabin) at this cabin altitude. Like normally exercising at sea level and then taking a jog in then mountains - you simply don't perform as well. Physically unfit people will be more prone to feeling these effects.

Being on a B777 or a BAE146 makes very little difference (unless you work for a company that has humidifiers on their aircraft - that helps on long flights for dryness). Its the length of time that you are exposed to these high altitudes and how active you are that counts.

Hope this helps.

[Tallbloke]

And also whether or not you are aneamic. You are more likely to notice a reduction in the partial pressure of oxygen if you have fewer red blood cells (and therefore less heamoglobin) to carry it around.
I flew 777 last week, and had no problems, but I have in the past. I suffer from mild Crohns' disease which can cause aneamia from time to time.

[jetjockey]

A few years ago I flew on a DC10 from LGW to DFW as SLF. I had an absolute *killer* headache upon arrival and hit the sack at around 9pm local time. (I can't remember which painkillers I took, but I don't usually get any kind of reaction). When I returned home a few weeks later I slept like a baby!

Back in April this year on the same route (this time on a 777) I didn't have any kind of problem. In fact, I hooked up with some friends out there and we were out until gone 2am local time. On my return home I only had an hours nap.

My experience on the 777 seems to be the opposite to most...

[This message has been edited by jetjockey (edited 10 November 2000).]

[flyblue]

Lady Matilda
I don't agree. I flew BA146 shorthaul and am flying B777 both long and shorthaul, and I can tell there is a difference. You actually feel more exhausted after the same flight on a BA146 than on a B777. I also experienced headache on some occasions.
I never had problem on B777, that is far the best A/C I have ever flown.
By the way, my company explains all the tralala about the engines and the packs on the basic F/AS course.

[VnV2178B]

DDave etc,

My real point was not about crew fatigue but the difference between the BA and AirJam crews on a similar length flight leg. I don't know if the a/c type made this difference but the former were noticably more affected than the latter.
Pax were also more ratty on the BA which, as you say, doesn't help the situation one bit! I think we are all on the same side here: wanting to sort out the best air mix for everyone.

VnV...
I'm too old for anything other than a desk job now !!!!