Foreign Recruitment - Time for Action

[Exit Strategy]

Jetstar seem to be about to start a recruitment drive in South Africa, Numerous smaller operators are also recruiting offshore. The Companies concerned cite a "pilot shortage" but what they actually mean is a shortage of pilots willing to work for pathetic wages.

Lots of Australian pilots pay lots of money to AIPA, AFAP, TWU and even HKAOA. We need a public education program about this and a variety of other industrial and safety issues NOW. Pilots are back on the assisted immigration list to undermine Australian wages and working conditions. We do not need foreign pilots here again. There are lots of Australians that would love to return but on proper pay and conditions. This would also make the job attractive again to encourage new entrants to the industry to avoid the problems being faced by regional airlines and GA.

Stop the rot now!

[Tankengine]

Correct! Too many Aussie O/S who would come home for a reasonable amount less than what they are on in HKG or the gulf.

[meguro]

I really don't think a nicely drafted letter will stop globalization. I am prepared to speculate that the amount pilots working in other countries may equal or exceed the amount working within Australia?
It's all supply and demand, Australians can't play protectionist xenephobes whilst so many Australians are working in other countries.
There has been discussion about colleagues form New Zealand or South Africa coming to Australia, I would suggest look out for the all the former soviet block countries.

[Buster Hyman]

Mate, I wish you well, but you're pushing it uphill.

What you must realise, is that you are also fighting public perception. That is, Joe Q Public still thinks you guys are overpaid for what you do...(not my opinion BTW)...that little incident a few years back, you guys had sod all support from the public. All they will hear is GD & his ilk pushing the "your shares will diminish if we don't cut costs" & the like.

You will get support on the Aussie jobs angle, but I can just see Today Tonight pushing some rubbish about "We can't get Aussie pilots to take this wage"!:rolleyes:

Seriously, I wish you well, but I'd keep the $$$ angle out of it...if you were considering it.

[404 Titan]

Just a few things before people go off on tangents. The job of “Aircraft Pilot” isn’t on the “Skilled Occupation List” (SOL) or “Migration Occupation in Demand List” (MODL) so they can’t immigrate to Australia just on their skill set as no points are earned. They can and have been able for a while to be sponsored by an employer because “Aircraft Pilot” is on the “Employer Nomination Scheme” (ENSOL).

SOL & ENSOL lists (http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1121i.pdf)

Exit Strategy

When you say “Assisted Immigration List” I assume you mean “ENSOL”, correct?

When people talk about Australian pilots working in other countries, generally we only work there because the country has no or very little pilots of their own. Australia has plenty of pilots. There is a big difference. In almost all other cases they have right of abode because of their parents, marriage etc.

[UncleJack]

Has Jetstar got a union and what do they say about foreign recruitment.

[qfpaypacket]

A union? I hope your joking.... How do you think they got their pathetic conditions. A330 captains at Jetstar are earning less than Qantas SO's............

[UncleJack]

What do FO at Qantus earn?

[Fliegenmong]

QLD & NT underarm (?) services???:}

[Artificial Horizon]

What a joke........ I am currently working in the UK, do yo have any idea how many Kiwi's and Aussies I meet on a daily basis working over here.

[404 Titan]

Artificial Horizon

Yes I do. That’s almost certainly because they have right of abode. I don’t so therefore unless I am sponsored I have no right to work in the UK or Europe. It’s exactly the same if you want to come to Australia. Unless you have right of abode or are sponsored by an airline, sorry no visa.

[Exit Strategy]

I think a few of you have missed the point. Whilst it would be desirable to have Australians flying in Australia the bigger issue is pilots that seem intent on working for less and less degrading the industry and the job. If there was a real shortage of skills then importing skills may be perfectly reasonable. The problem is we have an oversupply of fools willing to pay for a job (type rating) and then work for low wages for the rest of their career.

It would seem there may be a few commenting on this thread. I hope you enjoy flying airliners for GA wages, working 900 hours a year (until 1000 or more is available) and working for management that are contantly amazed how you will work for less and less and and degrade the conditions of your work mates. I hope to never have to rely on people like in an aircraft or in life in general.

[propaganda]

AH,
I agree with you- J* need pilots now, who are already A320 type rated.
You better get used to foreign pilots...and yes they will sponsor.
Let's hope everyone is made welcome.:ok:

[Eight Ball]

Will they (Jetstar) take someone with an A320 rating without time on type ?

Has it come down to this ?

[Q4NVS]

That’s almost certainly because they have right of abode.

I'm sure that is also the case with all the Oz Mates working in the Fragrant Harbour...:ooh:

Get over it, there is a Global Economy out there. If there was'nt, there would be more Ozzies in Australia flying on these pathetic wages.

:}

[404 Titan]

Q4NVS

I suggest you have a closer read of my post before being so arrogant as telling me to “get over it”. I was responding to post #11 by Artificial Horizon which was referring to the UK and Europe and stand by my point that most Aussies that work there have right of abode because of birth right or marriage. I wasn’t talking about Hong Kong in post #12 but if you care to re-read my comments in post #6 it specifically details why place like Hong Kong need to import expatriate pilots. When you have done this I will then be happy to accept you apology.

[Q4NVS]

Chill Boet, everything in life is not Personal...:zzz:

Btw, I do not believe there would be any Expats in Hong Kong, if it wasn't for the HK$'s and Type's operated. They also have pilots (or Cadets rather), but no real experience.

If what you say is true, then I do not believe the Australian Government would allow foreigners in, now would they?

Good Luck anyway...

(I know of a few SAFFERS already packing their bags for Oz)

:ok:

[404 Titan]

Q4NVS
I do not believe there would be any Expats in Hong Kong, if it wasn't for the HK$'s and Type's operated.
Yeh the dollars were OK once. In the last five years I have seen my pay-packet in AUD$ deteriorate by 50%. Low taxes are one thing but when you still have significant expenses in AUD$ then living in Aus still looks appealing. As for the shiny jet syndrome? For some it may have been a lure, but most couldn’t care less. CX and in particular KA (>10% loss in pilots) have been haemorrhaging pilots in the last 12 months back to their home counties and it aint entirely because of money.
They also have pilots (or Cadets rather), but no real experience.
Yeh we have cadets. At last count there were about 300 of them in CX out of a total pilot population of about 2300. The reality is that we can’t find enough suitable applicants here in HK. Once you could only apply if you were a permanent resident. Now as long as you have the right to live in HK we will accept you. And if that doesn’t fix the problem it will be opened to foreigners.
If what you say is true, then I do not believe the Australian Government would allow foreigners in, now would they?
Unless the government has the job of “Aircraft Pilot” removed of the “Employer Nomination Scheme” (ENSOL), which I doubt they will do, then employers will be free to sponsor pilots into the country. Having said that the onus is on the employer to prove to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship that they can’t find anyone suitable in Aus. Up until now this has been the stumbling block for most employers, particularly in the capital cities.

[Murray Cod]

After experience in other industries , I think your only angle in keeping them out is to use the safety issue. No one gives a toss how much your getting paid or how hard you work.
If you can convince the public you win.
MC

[Onça]

I just read 404 Titan's post in regards to the standards for cadets being lowered. I am a Permanent Resident of Hong Kong and a foreign national like so many others. I have applied numerous times to cathay's program in the past and have never been excepted. I am now working on my FAA Instrument licence and have just received an offer for an interview in HKG. Would you have any advice in how I should best proceed so that I pass all of the interviews?

[gas-chamber]

Start by realisiing that to have 'never been excepted' is very close to meaning that you have been accepted.