The credit cruch - what mighta been!

[B A Lert]

With the arrival of the worldwide credit cruch, one cannot help wonder about the fate of Qantas if the APA bid succeeded. Did I read the othetr day that Allco was in a spot of bother?

Thank goodness a few sensible sharholders voted with their feet. If only something could be done about the galah perched atop the management tree.

[PLovett]

B A Lert

I was listening to a business analyst the other day who was talking about the huge number of private equity deals that have been done over the past few years. His analysis of them is that they all need to be refinanced soon and there is going to be a lot of tears, wailing and gnashing of teeth.:uhoh:

The QANTAS deal was one of the more extreme attempts by private equity and I suspect that they may be now thanking their lucky stars at their near escape.:suspect:

Incidentally, as to the galah perched atop the management treehe is one of the few in legacy airline management to keep their company in black ink. He may not be popular with staff but the shareholders are happy and that is his statutory responsibility.:*

[Tankengine]

"better to be lucky than good!"

Pretty well sums up his abilities, bonuses should be reviewed after 5 then 10 years to see whether there really was good management!:ugh:

[B A Lert]

He may not be popular with staff but the shareholders are happy and that is his statutory responsibility

This is true, but there are many CEOs who manage very successful enterprises and keep both staff and shareholders happy. If they can do it, why can't the Qantas management?

[PLovett]

B A Lert
The history of legacy airline management has been very different from just about any other corporation in history. Traditionally nationalism and restrictive practices have been the norm in just about any country you care to mention including that home of the brave and free capitalist, the USA, especially the USA.

From my reading of corporate problems since deregulation took effect in the aviation industry around the world is that none of the legacy carriers have managed to survive without drastic change which has largly impacted on staff. QANTAS for all its faults saw that need very early, James Strong positioned it to start the change and Dixon has continued the trend. Ansett, which many people still call the best place they have ever worked, did not. The rest is history.

I don't think airlines as corporations are ever great money earners. I think it was Warren Buffet who commented on that after making a rare loss after investing in an airline. The return on equity is low and the variables over which there is no control, such as fuel prices, are many.

That is not to say that QANTAS could not do better in the HR field. It could do something like keeping its staff better informed which would be a start. However, a return to "the good old days" is highly unlikely as the airline continues down the path to being a brand name only.

tankengine
I don't think luck has had anything to do with it.

[Keg]

Air New Zealand seems to be turning a great profit at the moment and therefore delivering for the shareholders whilst at the same time delivering a great service and engaging and developing the staff.

It's possible and it doesn't take a rocket scientist! What it takes is a leader who is also able to manage.

[Taildragger67]

Gordon Bethune also seemed to pull the staff along for a good ride in turning CO around and Southwest (dare I mention a LCC... :eek:) is also well regarded for its HR practices.

It is possible, get the staff and they will do the job for you. No matter how bright he is, GD cannot come up with every revenue-raising or cost-saving idea - but get some smart people at the sharp end to think about it as well and they might come up with some good ideas. Get them not to care, and (quite rightly) they'll just do as they're told... especially when their jobs are at risk if they deviate from the book and show a bit of initiative.

No dictatorship has lasted as long as a democracy.

[Tankengine]

plovett,
You may not be as close to the info as some, luck has a LOT to do with it!
Re read first post by B A Lert:ugh:

[Zenreverend]

I agree, but what I think you actually mean is 'What it takes is a manager who is also able to lead.'
Very different fish - a manager and a leader.
At the moment we have way too many managers and unfortunately true leaders are as rare as rocking horse sh.t

[Fliegenmong]

he he ..just had this vision of GD in an apron serving cans of bourbon and coke to the ugg boot wearing set on a J* special :D

[QFinsider]

I sort of have a vision of him staying at her Majesty's pleasure...

[Going Boeing]

He may not be popular with staff but the shareholders are happy and that is his statutory responsibility.

If the shareholders were aware of the massive amount of money (ie profits) wasted by Dixon & Co's bad decisions then they wouldn't be happy.

Then there's looking to the future, with the massive reductions in staff the airline is currently not able to operate effectively, eg, Melbourne airport was closed for 10 mins yesterday as a storm passed through. The flights that held during that period landed in quick succession after the airport opened and resulted in a massive overload for ground staff at both Domestic & Internationals. Pax who had been on a 15.5 hour flight from LAX (QF94) had to wait for more than 2 hous for their bags. Domestic aircraft arrived and pax disembarked but no baggage handlers were available to unload the bags. Pax boarded for the next flight and had to sit for up to 2 hours while waiting for staff to unload then load bags. The captain of one B737 phoned John Borghetti to appraise him of the situation (& demand short & long term fixes). Borghetti's immediate response was to ask if they were engaged in some kind of industrial action. He simply had no idea that their cost cutting has gone so far that there is no capacity to cope with these day to day disruptions

[rammel]

Day to day disruptions are a way of life at pretty much every airport. I can only speak for MEL, but one flight delayed by 5 mins will affect the service provided by the ramp. They are that short staffed and the planning has no fat whatsoever to cope. It is more like an anorexic.

[Taildragger67]

Slight thread drift, but following Fliegenmong - when did it become acceptable to wear uggies beyond the front gate?! :mad: :yuk:

[teresa green]

Everybody thinks that "bogan travel" started with Jetstar. It didn't. Most of you blokes would have been in nappies, but QF used to have this dreadful thing called "funjets" which went to DPS and NAN, the flighty used to swear that you did not need donks, the pot was enough to keep the A/C aloft, the C/C used to get high without as much as a puff, and the engineers used to reckon the "funny mushroom smell" was around for days! Of course I am talking of days when you could smoke on board, in the eighties and early nineties. Ugg boots were the least of our worries!:bored:

[Taildragger67]

'Bogan travel' started well before the QF funjets. Over here, they've been calling them 'charter flights' for decades... :\

Corsair packing over 500 onto a 744... :eek:

[SIUYA]

Taildragger67...........

That's close to the 490+ seats that that one particular Middle Eastern (Gulf) operator used to have on a couple of B747-100 SR81 variants that it operated between the Gulf and the UK in the late 90's. It also had an ex-Air Mauritius SP...............for a short(ish) while until it got..............er.............broken during a..........errr...........'funny' landing that seems may have been conducted by the then CEO. :E

Brilliant ride upstairs in First Class in the smallish 'upper lobe' lounge on the SR81 (if the then-CEO wasn't flying). :ok:. Chaos-corner down in the main cabin though! :eek:

I seem to recall the SR81 was fitted with CF6's......but maybe wrong on that count!

[bigles]

The Rooster At The Top Of The Management Tree Should Be Incarcerated At This Point, Along With His Fellow Travellers For Not Informing The Punters Of The True State Of Qf's Finances.
I Feel A Very Clear Case Of Insider Trading.That The Finances Of Qf Were In Better Shape Than Was Indicated And Only Bought To The Attention Of The Public Is The Most Disgraceful Exhibition Of Corporate Governance I Have Seen In The Last 20 Years.The Fact That The Asic Has Made No Public Statement Would Indicate It Is Another Toothless Watchdog,or Is It Complicity ?

[Capn Bloggs]

Bigles,
or
you missed one.

[teresa green]

Right on Biggles. AWB, probably gaol, Onetel, gaol, Adler and williams, gaol, so I am scratching my head??????

[cobber_digger_buddy]

The Finances Of Qf Were In Better Shape Than Was IndicatedVery true, QF was in a robust position with her Balance sheet Cash holdings, which translated to the clowns at APA as "free Money", i.e these "accountants" and "deal-makers" and whatever.. looked at this cash as a completely under utilized resource, that is of course until you come to the rather distasteful conculsion that these APA maggots knew absolutely nothing about Airlines, QF needs to hold that amount of "unworked" capital in cash because you never know when the next bird flu or unemployed APA idiot will surface from.

It is a reasonable and accurate sentiment mr Big Les.

Unfortunately, the last PM (I can't seem to recall his name :D ) has descended into obscurity (for the time being) but I imagine he will only resurface (any one want to bet ?) as a "consultant" to Mac-we-steal-legally or some other equity partnership ...........

boys club....... :mad:


Right on Biggles. AWB, probably gaol, Onetel, gaol, Adler and williams, gaol, so I am scratching my head??????

regarding Adler, did anyone catch the smh a few weeks ago when Adler was released, there was a wonderful quote by Adler himself which went along the lines of ......

"Without going into details . Adler stated that homosexualiy is a fact of life in prison"

oh, how the mighty have fallen, and deliciously so.........

[max autobrakes]

"Well bugger me " he said tongue in cheek.:}

[Shazz-zaam]

"You lot must be mental if you don't accept the offer", besides the Galah, don't forget about MAJ.
She must have hired a PR firm ,to try to make-over her image, she was featured in The Bulletin magazine, SMH etc ,etc it was enoiugh to make you sick.:yuk: The way they put the spin on it she deserves to be made a saint.:yuk::yuk::yuk:
MAJ also belongs behind bars, Prisoner Cell Block H.
Also who is responsible for the $70 million fine for the cargo fiasco???

GD & MJ should be in gaol, and the key should be thrown away:ok: