PDA

View Full Version : US Navy


radeng
19th Dec 2007, 20:25
So we all like to bash the Americans.

This one is arguably in the finest traditions of the US military.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/12/18/national/a100236S24.DTL&feed=rss.news

I figure that congratulations are due all round.

galaxy flyer
19th Dec 2007, 22:01
It is a great story, for everyone. Unfortunately, the many rescues accomplished by everyone's armed forces every year go unnoticed.

For those involved, it will be a story to tell the grandkids 50 years from now.

GF

Bally Heck
20th Dec 2007, 00:42
With the greatest respect to the US Navy for a job well done Radeng. Don't you think that is what any civilised human being would do. Indeed, it is the duty of every seaman (and airman for that matter) to do his utmost to save life.
I do remember many many years ago, a Russian warship, (all of which carried surgeons in those days) diverting a long way to carry out a similar mission on a UK fishing boat.
"US Navy does it's job" shouldn't be news headlines. They are better than that.

Buster Hyman
20th Dec 2007, 00:45
Tony Bullimore anyone?

Anyway, nice job, kid's ok, and there's one Ronald Reagan with its wits still about them!:ok:

brickhistory
20th Dec 2007, 01:00
"US Navy does it's job" shouldn't be news headlines. They are better than that.

Ah, so only bad news is news then? How convenient

Tony Bullimore anyone?

Indeed, the RAN was fantastic on that one.

Bally Heck
20th Dec 2007, 01:08
Brick,
I'm not trying to do down what the might of the US navy did. But consider everyday life in the UK. A charity does more!
"Last year RNLI lifeboats rescued more than 8,000 people, an average of 22 people per day."
http://www.rnli.org.uk/what_we_do
And most of these rescues barely make the local press, far less the international news.
Edited to say that "The biggest navy in the world fails to save girl with ruptured appendix". Might have made bigger headlines?
(Blame the wine. Not me.)

brickhistory
20th Dec 2007, 01:14
A charity does more!

No, they don't, but that's fantastic about the lifeboat service.


And that's exactly my point. Only negative items are news or are commented upon here, for example.

Union Jack
20th Dec 2007, 01:21
Well done indeed to the USN and particularly to the people involved.

However, without taking anything whatsoever away from them, I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback that a 77000 ton (GRT) five star cruise ship carrying up to about 2000 passengers (plus a substantial crew) apparently does not have the facilties or medical staff to deal with a burst appendix, or presumably even to have prevented the situation from getting to that serious a level.

Jack

tony draper
20th Dec 2007, 01:32
In my day every merchant ship carried the Board of Trade book of surgery and the necessary knives tweezers catgut needles an such,scrub down the mess room table,bottle of ether and bobs yer uncle,generally the Chief Stewards job with the cook assisting.
Always enough canvas and fire bars in the paint locker if they made a arse of it
Tell the kids nowadays an they wunt believe yer.
:rolleyes:

con-pilot
20th Dec 2007, 01:46
However, without taking anything whatsoever away from them, I have to say that I am somewhat taken aback that a 77000 ton (GRT) five star cruise ship carrying up to about 2000 passengers (plus a substantial crew) apparently does not have the facilties or medical staff to deal with a burst appendix, or presumably even to have prevented the situation from getting to that serious a level

I must say I do agree with you Jack. Next time I take a cruise I may ask a few more questions. Now once on a Norwegian Cruise Line holiday we met a doctor on the cruise that had the cruise for free in exchange for being the ships doctor on the ship, he was a surgeon.

Buster Hyman
20th Dec 2007, 01:56
In my day...

Is it true that if that bluddy Hardy hadn't been standing so close, we'd all be saying "Kiss me quick Tony"???:}:ouch::suspect:

Bally Heck
20th Dec 2007, 01:56
Aye Tony. Ship's Captains Medical Guide. A mighty tome. One could extract a haimorrhoide with a packing extractor in those days. And little pain involved. I understand that in the first edition, they could actually spell haemeroid and Di Rea.

Ancient Mariner
20th Dec 2007, 08:26
Galaxy Flyer:It is a great story, for everyone. Unfortunately, the many rescues accomplished by everyone's armed forces every year go unnoticed.

For those involved, it will be a story to tell the grandkids 50 years from now.


That is actually what my mother may tell her four great grandchildren this Yule. As a stewardess on the same ship my father captained back in the 50ies she had a ruptured appendix while crossing the Atlantic Ocean from Europe bound for the US. A distress call was made and a nearby British RN ship replied and informed they had a doctor and operation facilities. My mother was transferred from her vessel in a wooden lifeboat powered by oars (50ies, remember), successfully operated on and later transferred to an onshore hospital before being repatried to Norway. Can't remember the name of the ship, but have a brass ashtray and a plaque somewhere with the name on.
Had appendicitis myself on a journey from Newcastle NSW to Europe, but was dumped in Cape Town after 15 day on 20g boiled water/hour and nothing but. Great way of loosing weight, pity about the nervous chief mate who checked his knifes trice a day and never had to utilise them.
Per

ScottyDoo
20th Dec 2007, 08:39
once on a Norwegian Cruise Line holiday we met a doctor on the cruise that had the cruise for free in exchange for being the ships doctor

Bit of a drag having to be sober the whole way...

Ace Rimmer
20th Dec 2007, 08:42
Brick:
The RNLI is a registered charity and one that receives not a penny from the government it is entirely funded by charitable contributions.

Its boats are crewed entirely by volunteers the overwhelming majority unpaid (I understand that some Coxswains and 2nd Coxes get a small stipend). These dudes are heroes no doubt about it and since the Instititution was founded in 1824 many of it's volunteers have paid the ultimate price - "that others may live"

Bo Nalls
20th Dec 2007, 09:48
The Ship Captainís Medical Guide (http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-seafarer_information/mcga-dqs_st_shs_seafarer_information-medical/mcga-dqs_st_shs_ships_capt_medical_guide.htm) was indeed a magnificent document. Seems a little thinner now at 232 pages? Used a number of times in anger by my good self but, thankfully, only once was I on the receiving end - I still have the scars to prove that the 2nd mate cannot sew neat stitches :}

tony draper
20th Dec 2007, 10:17
For such a motley crew we seemed a healthy lot,don't recal any serious illnesses or injuries,odd dose of crabs and such,odd cutlass slash or dint in head from belaying pin,never seen anybody buried at sea either don't think that was as common in peacetime as Hollywood likes to portray,prolly to many forms to fill in now.
:rolleyes:

boogie-nicey
20th Dec 2007, 10:24
Agreed good job by all involved and it's always heartening to see glimmers of true US nature that used to be so abundantly evident from the past. A step in the right direction I'd say and helps shut up all those US haters.

Well done indeed.

Snifferdog
20th Dec 2007, 10:34
As the USS Ronald Reagan is regarded as US sovereign territory for anyone onboard I do hope proper immigration and passport control procedures were carried out. I'd hate to think what might have happened if the passenger had been some Icelandic bint with a bit of a pain in her side !! :E

Um... lifting...
20th Dec 2007, 11:05
Snifferdog-
You couldn't be more wrong, actually.
This kind of operation is done all the time and seldom makes anything but the local papers when it does. I've flown at least three myself that involved foreign nationals to U.S. Navy ships from foreign flagged vessels and countless others involving foreign nationals to U.S. Coast Guard ships.
Probably the foreign guest won't be invited down to the reactor room or to the C4I center while aboard the ship, but they certainly will be given best possible care and protection without hesitation.
Once the person gets ashore, an immigration official from that country will examine the person and their papers... even if, in the case of your Icelandic bint... it were... Iceland.

Snifferdog
20th Dec 2007, 20:41
I was trying to be ironic! (humorous licence and all that!) :hmm:

Um... lifting...
20th Dec 2007, 21:35
Of course you were, Dear...

(That is irony)

Snifferdog
21st Dec 2007, 09:59
Of course it is Dear!!

SkyToddler
21st Dec 2007, 16:39
"US Navy does it's job" shouldn't be news headlines. They are better than that.

I agree, they were only doing what they're payed to do, how often does a bin man make the headlines for collecting your rubbish?

brickhistory
21st Dec 2007, 16:47
they were only doing what they're payed to do

Actually, 'they' are paid to kill people and break their stuff upon the orders of the US government. When they are not doing that, they are to be training to do that.


'Nice guy' stuff is just a bonus.............

anotherthing
21st Dec 2007, 17:06
Actually Brick,

I know you guys work on the principle shoot first, ask questions later, but in correction to your statement, I think you will find the USN and its' sister forces are paid to protect the country and it's inhabitants either at home or abroad.

'Killing people and breaking stuff' as you so eloquently put it, is often required to carry out that task, but it is not the main mission statement. :ugh:

So in essence, by carrying out this rescue (which as an aside was a sterling effort), they were fulfilling their remit i.e. doing their jobs.

AMF
21st Dec 2007, 17:27
anotherthing Actually Brick,

I know you guys work on the principle shoot first, ask questions later, but in correction to your statement, I think you will find the USN and its' sister forces are paid to protect the country and it's inhabitants either at home or abroad.

'Killing people and breaking stuff' as you so eloquently put it, is often required to carry out that task, but it is not the main mission statement.

So in essence, by carrying out this rescue (which as an aside was a sterling effort), they were fulfilling their remit i.e. doing their jobs.

Actually Another,

The blue-water, USN's purpose is to protect the U.S.'s national interests in international waters and project power abroad.

If it falls within the "national interest" to give a girl an appendectomy, feel free to argue that. Were they just doing their jobs when detoured for tsunami relief in Southeast Asia as well.? What did that have to do with protecting Americans?

brickhistory
21st Dec 2007, 17:29
My dear anotherthing,

As a serving officer* in one of those 'sister' services, the 'remit' is to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States and carry out the lawful orders of the officers appointed over me.

I fully agree that using deadly force is but one in the range of options used by the military to carry out that duty, but all training and equipment is geared toward that ultimate use. Even the medical and SAR forces of the military, in this case, the USN, are primarily designed to treat and return to duty the military combat forces, not as a civilian recovery agency.

That said, there are thousands of instances where that very thing is done all over the world, and this cruise ship save is one of them, but it is NOT their primary mission.

Therefore, a kudos to the USN is not out of line.



* 1 month until retirement

El Grifo
21st Dec 2007, 17:37
* 1 month until retirement

Nice One Brick

I for one, am envious !!

Happy Days, El Grifo :ok:

anotherthing
21st Dec 2007, 17:46
My Dear BH and AMF

As an ex officer in HM Royal Navy (in the very near past), I fully understand the roles of both my countries' forces and those of the allies of whom I used to train and fight alongside.

The forces are there to serve and protect, the constitution says (amongst many other laudable principles) that American citizens will be protected by their mother State. Your forces, as instruments of the State, are beholden to do that.

You are correct, the USN did assist in the aftermath of the Tsunami, as any state with the ability and the integrity should. In fact I remember you guys managed to get their just after the Royal Navy, which was also carrying out humanitarian missions.

It may be semantics but the statement 'they' are paid to kill people and break their stuff is a very simplistic and Gung ho stance, one assumes that it was a little tongue in cheek. Certainly not how a commissioned officer normally speaks :O

Enjoy your retirement :ok:

brickhistory
21st Dec 2007, 17:53
one assumes that it was a little tongue in cheek. Certainly not how a commissioned officer normally speaks

A) Yes, it was. Boiled down, however, that is the primary purpose of a military.
B) I wasn't speaking, I was writing.
C) Y'all think so poorly of the American education system anyway, what does it matter? You can take the boy off the farm, etc. etc........

Thank you for the wishes (and from el as well).

tony draper
21st Dec 2007, 19:06
"Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard Kipling
:rolleyes:

brickhistory
21st Dec 2007, 20:48
Indeed, Mr. Draper, indeed.

SkyToddler
21st Dec 2007, 20:49
Were they just doing their jobs when detoured for tsunami relief in Southeast Asia as well.?

Did the military help out in New Orleans? Yes

Is it in their job description? No

Is it expected of them? Yes

Case closed.

brickhistory
21st Dec 2007, 20:55
I think you missed the point about the tsunami not really being the USN's or the US's problem (save for some tourists), but the 'expected' point is exactly the point.


So you'd not say "Well done" to any navy who performed such a humanitarian act as the cruise ship passenger save?

SkyToddler
21st Dec 2007, 21:09
So you'd not say "Well done" to any navy who performed such a humanitarian act as the cruise ship passenger save?

Yes i would but i wouldnt go to the nearest newspaper journalist about it. A pat on the back is sufficient enough.

Howard Hughes
21st Dec 2007, 21:17
Job description or not, who gives a toss?

A big thumbs up for a job well done!:ok:

SkyToddler
21st Dec 2007, 22:04
and where was the US Coastguard in all of this?

Howard Hughes
21st Dec 2007, 22:24
Guarding the coast perhaps? After all the ship was a long way from US territorial waters...:rolleyes:

SkyToddler
21st Dec 2007, 23:07
Guarding the coast perhaps? After all the ship was a long way from US territorial waters...:rolleyes:

"A spokeswoman for Princess Cruises, which operates the Bahamian-registered Dawn Princess, said the ship's captain called the U.S. Coast Guard for help because he felt that would be faster than diverting back to the nearest Mexican port"

try again HH

brickhistory
21st Dec 2007, 23:24
the ship's captain called the U.S. Coast Guard for help because he felt that would be faster than diverting back to the nearest Mexican port"

No, it says the captain 'called' the Coast Guard, not that the cruise ship wasn't in international or Mexican waters. It does NOT say there was a Coastie ship anywhere nearby.

It says he called them. Undoubtedly, that's why the USN got involved as they, probably, (admitting I don't know for a certainty, but it follows) were closer than any USCG vessel.

con-pilot
21st Dec 2007, 23:30
try again HH

The fact is that most generally on the open seas near US territorial waters the United States Coast Guard is the clearing house for emergencies. If the emergency is within the range of Coast Guard assets those assets will be used. If outside the range or area of Coast Guard operations the Coast Guard will contact the closest vessel to render assistance. A great majority of time the vessel is a commercial freighter or seagoing fishing boat.

If the USS Ronald Reagan had not been in range the Cruise ship probably would had to have headed toward the closest port that had helicopter rescue capabilities, which probably would have been a US military asset. the US Air Force SAR's H-60s that can be refueled in flight have carried out many rescues well offshore coastal waters. I believe the record was nearly a thousand miles that required 4 midair refueling to save the life of a fisherman that was seriously ill on a Japaneses fishing boat. I'll have to look that up.

G-CPTN
21st Dec 2007, 23:32
Where was the Red Cross? Isn't it their duty to administer humanitarian medical help? I believe that they have hospital ships.

SkyToddler
21st Dec 2007, 23:41
The point im trying to make is that there is little mention of the coastguard in the report as for the only reason i can think of is that they are not glory stealers. The coastguard would have had some part in this yet they are not credited for it. The CG do this everyday, saving lives and when the navy do it once they make the headlines. kinda sad to me. The CG are the real heroes!:ok:

con-pilot
21st Dec 2007, 23:49
The CG are the real heroes!

No argument with that statement, from Alaska to the Caribbean and everywhere in between. :ok:

Howard Hughes
22nd Dec 2007, 00:12
try again HH
OK!:ok:
The ship steamed overnight toward the Dawn Princess, which was about 250 miles north-northwest of the Mexican resort of Cabo San Lucas when the call went out.
While I have no doubt the Coast Guard have the capability to reach this area, it is not somehwre I think they would regularly patrol!;)

brickhistory
22nd Dec 2007, 00:21
The point im trying to make is that there is little mention of the coastguard in the report as for the only reason i can think of is that they are not glory stealers. The coastguard would have had some part in this yet they are not credited for it. The CG do this everyday, saving lives and when the navy do it once they make the headlines. kinda sad to me.

And you sank (pun intended) your own arguement. The Coast Guard does this sort of thing for a living and as its mission. While I would never begrudge them for any sort of kudos for their excellent work, they don't often get publicity for doing their job.

The USN, as stated before, does a different primary mission.

The CG are the real heroes! Yes, they are, day in, day out! :ok:

SkyToddler
22nd Dec 2007, 00:33
And you sank (pun intended) your own arguement

I know im getting a bit tired of this now. Last post of the night promise! Right... dont get me wrong i think the navy did a good job but don't publicise just the navys part, you should publicise the operation as a whole and congratulate everyone who took part in the rescue not just the navy.

Merry Xmas everyone.

AMF
22nd Dec 2007, 02:00
anotherthing
You are correct, the USN did assist in the aftermath of the Tsunami, as any state with the ability and the integrity should. In fact I remember you guys managed to get their just after the Royal Navy, which was also carrying out humanitarian missions.

Well, since you're inviting comparisons with that petty little jibe (another tired "Americans finally showed up")....the Royal Navy dispatched 2 ships, one being the frigate (with 2 Lynx helos) HMS Chatam which arrived off the coast of Sri Lanka on January 3rd and the other, the repair ship Diligence to India.

Meanwhile, 2 days earlier on January 1st and nearest the epicenter of disaster in Sumatra and Aceh coast of Indonesia, the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln and the 4 other ships of it's strike group had already arrived and begun relief operations. 3 days after that, when the Chatam was arriving off Sri Lanka, the USN Bonhomme Richard and 6 other ships of it's strike group arrived off Aceh with humanitarian relief including on-ship desalinization plants.

Within another week numerous other, already-dispatched USN ships of operation Unified Assistance (begun on 28 December) carrying humanitarian supplies including 7 ships with desalinization capability were arriving at points farther from the epicenter, including Sri Lanka where the Chatham was.
Perhaps this is what meant by they "managed to get there after the Royal Navy"? You were talking about that lone Royal Navy frigate, with it's 2 Lynx helicopters, in Sri Lanka.

Over in Indonesia besides the US I recall the Aussies and the French being on the scene in numbers right away alongside them, not the Royal Navy.

Um... lifting...
22nd Dec 2007, 04:07
Gentlemen-
Oh dear, temper, temper... everyone to neutral corners.
Since until about two years ago (when one commenced one's well-earned retirement), one was a serving officer in the United States Coast Guard (two words, both capitalized) and had been one for a couple of decades, perhaps one is in a position to tell you where the Coast Guard likely was in all this. Con pilot's description reflects a working knowledge of how the U.S. SAR system operates.
Con, there was a thread on the Rotorheads board about the longest-distance helicopter operations... it had a SAR case or two in there. Nick Lappos made a post on the first page on what I believe is the case you refer to.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245696
As is typical, the Brits ignored the American posts (and vice-versa) and I don't think anyone really convinced anyone else (see, it doesn't just happen on Jet Blast)... but there were some spectacular examples of Air National Guard and everybody else. Some years ago, the USCG had an HH-60J out of Elizabeth City fly offshore to pick some people up with strong westerly winds, successfully prosecuted the case and recovered in Bermuda without refueling or landing along the way (some 620 nm as the crow flies... no hovering nor course deviation considered here). They caught a ride part of the way back and a bit of fuel on a convenient aircraft carrier a couple days later. But, back to the topic at hand.
The initial notification likely went to the USCG by best means, be that radio, satellite communication, ELT, or what-have-you. Once notification gets to the National SAR Center, Rescue Coordination Center, or smaller command, determination of best asset is made. In a truly deepwater situation, often long-range CG air assets will be brought to bear for the Search part of SAR with appropriate intervention soon thereafter (dropping a raft, diverting a ship, launching a helicopter, etc.). As one fairly vivid example, the operating area of the 14th CG District (Honolulu) covers some 13 million square nautical miles (halfway to California to the East, halfway to Alaska to the North, Guam to the West, and down south of the Equator) and there are 4 CG HC-130H long-range patrol aircraft, 4 HH-65C short-range recovery helicopters, two high-endurance cutters, 3 oceangoing buoytenders (not known for their greyhound-like speed) and numerous smaller cutters (any CG vessel over 65' in length is a Cutter by the service's definition, any vessel under that length is a boat) craft in the USCG inventory in the 14th. Interoperability with the Navy in the 14th... well, it's obvious why that is essential... there's a lot of ocean out there.
There is a voluntary global program known as AMVER (Automated Mutual Vessel Reporting) that tracks merchant vessels around the planet.
http://www.amver.com/
A deepwater merchant ship often will be the response asset of choice because they're nearest. These happen all the time and seldom even make the local papers. Many times they're not terribly newsworthy because the merchant sailors head something off before it becomes a tragic catastrophe. Time is of the essence in the SAR business.
The CG's cousins in the second-oldest continuous seagoing service in the colonies (that would be John Paul Jones' Navy, sorry, lads...;)) also will step in when requested and when it does not conflict with their primary statutory duties. Inside the U.S. EEZ (200 nautical miles), CG assets are brought to bear at a higher frequency, though voluntary assistance is still often used in the interest of saving time. Over the course of one's career, one has been involved in SAR cases with assets (air and surface from the Navy, air from everyone else, though the occasional satellite bit is sometimes made available) from every service under US DoD (and several from other nations) at one time or another. Because humanitarian assistance and SAR are not the primary focuses of these services, it has been one's experience that they bring to bear their unique skill sets and adapt to the mission at hand rather deftly and with a great deal of enthusiasm because they get to ply their trade at something new, meaningful, and decidedly not training. As a career helicopter pilot, when one meets one's peers from other services, the stories they tell one with the greatest effusiveness are invariably the one or two SAR cases or humanitarian efforts they were involved in over their careers, and not generally that of their primary mission (One shall grant they're tailoring the presentation, just as they speak slowly and clearly for the same reason).
As to the story and how it was couched, in a land where most of the news is written in such a way to reflect poorly on the services (and the UK suffers from the same malady), it perhaps isn't entirely unexpected nor unseemly for the Navy to pat themselves on the back a bit here and say "Look what we can do!" They did have a hand in this story.
The CG has been by tradition and inclination generally a closed-mouth sort of outfit, just sort of evolved that way (the reasons for which would be fairly apparent with a working knowledge of CG history), and yes, it is indeed the job of the CG. Unfortunately, when competing for scarce dollars, one's ability to tell one's story is often reflected in one's budget.
G-CPTN, the U.S. Military Sealift Command operates two hospital ships, one of which is USNS Mercy.
http://www.msc.navy.mil/inventory/ships.asp?ship=124&type=HospitalShip
These vessels are generally stationed in different oceans from one another and are designed for disaster relief and other large-scale operations such as refugee operations, etc. Because of the sheer scale, they won't generally put to sea for something like this as it's not just a matter of hitting the starter and driving out there. The medical facilities of an aircraft carrier (of which there are about a dozen) or indeed, any naval combatant that happens to be training in the area is more than sufficient for most SAR cases and has a surprising amount of trauma and general treatment capabilities which can be brought to bear with great rapidity, since there's generally a helicopter or ten about somewhere in the carrier battle group or destroyer squadron.
All in all, one would give all hands a round of applause... looked rather seamless from where one is sitting.:D

radeng
22nd Dec 2007, 09:17
Would a CG cutter necessarily have had a surgeon and the operating theatre capability of the Reagan? That could have come into the equation. Also, am I right in assuming that it would go way up the chain of command (CINCPAC?)to allow breaking off the exercise, or is that a decision the captain can make in these circumstances?

Um... lifting...
22nd Dec 2007, 15:37
Would a CG cutter necessarily have had a surgeon and the operating theatre capability of the Reagan?A CG cutter most definitely would not have had that capability. Even the polar icebreakers which deploy for six months and high-endurance cutters which deploy for slightly shorter periods don't typically carry a M.D., though there are varying facilities and medical hardware aboard. A physician's assistant with a health services technician in the case of the icebreakers and no physician's assistant in the case of the high-endurance cutter. A carrier with embarked air wing will normally have several doctors aboard (flight surgeons for each squadron, a dentist or two and probably a few others, each of whom will probably be a specialist of some kind).

Also, am I right in assuming that it would go way up the chain of command (CINCPAC?)to allow breaking off the exercise, or is that a decision the captain can make in these circumstances?Unsure, but expect it probably depends upon the exercise. Imagine the decision was made at a higher level than the ship's commanding officer. Generally, the USCG won't know the location of naval combatants but can ask the fleet commanders if there's anything available, so that was probably the sort of channel through which the request came.

Speaking of locations of naval combatants... one was once launched out at night on a 243.0MHz EPIRB, a not uncommon event. Chased that down on a moderately hazy night off Hawai'i, pretty solid radar contact that was going a good bit faster than any genuine vessel in distress has any business going. Couldn't see a thing... apparently running darken ship... as we got a bit closer, the NVGs started to pick up a few cues through the haze and we realized this was a naval combatant out doing something or other and not wanting anybody to know about it (as is sometimes done for legitimate purposes). About this time they saw/heard/radar painted us and interrogated us on guard. "Unknown aircraft, U.S. Naval Warship... identify and state intentions..."

"Good evening Captain, Coast Guard Rescue Helicopter 6509. I notice, Sir, that you're running darken ship... however, you're radiating on 243.0MHz. Understand you are in no immediate distress."

Uncertain, but thought one heard the sound of a coffee mug shattering. Some poor slob no doubt was given a bit of what for by the ol' man...:*

radeng
22nd Dec 2007, 15:42
Um....lifting

Thanks for the info.

I still think they did a good job, and I doubt very much anyone will get a bill for the medical attention.

Um... lifting...
22nd Dec 2007, 15:52
My pleasure.

There will be no bill... it's all part of the service.

Indeed, the CG doesn't charge for very good reason (and neither will the Navy). Several years back, Sir Richard Branson, on one of his ill-starred balloon journeys, ditched off Hawai'i and offered to pay the freight for his rescue seeing as he saw himself as just a joyrider who could afford it.

The Commandant of the Coast Guard, while grateful, refused payment. The rationale is that if people believe there is an expectation of payment, they will allow a situation at sea to progress even farther along before calling for help, thereby placing themselves (and by extension the crews and equipment to rescue them) at greater risk.

con-pilot
22nd Dec 2007, 16:07
During the 14-hour mission, the two HH-60s had been refueled in flight 10 times by the wing's HC-130s. The pilots in both helicopters spent 14 hours without relief at the controls, all to save one life."


Thank you Um... lifting...

It looks like I had all the facts wrong but the distance and type of helicopter. :uhoh:

However, that was the mission I was thinking of, thanks again. :ok:


14 hours and 10 midair refueling, wow.

ShotOver
22nd Dec 2007, 16:15
"Agreed good job by all involved and it's always heartening to see glimmers of true US nature that used to be so abundantly evident from the past. A step in the right direction I'd say and helps shut up all those US haters.

Well done indeed."

Thanks for the measured compliment! Acutally it's disgusting. First of all, be a bit more mature as to realize that some actions or ideas of a government do not always reflect the individual solider. What does 'glimmers of true US nature...." mean, are you kidding. The whole European continent would be speaking either German or Russian if others hadn't helped. It wasn't the US policy that has done anything militarily in the world, it is soley the spirit of the US solider. They have and I hope will always look out for the under-dog. When it comes to helping others whether it be an earthquake, and hurricane, a typhoon, there are american soliders and volunteers that go anywhere in the world to assist in any way possible. This isn't a 'glimmer'. This is the way it has always been. Anyone who has ever been a soldier knows to seperate politics from soldiering (which includes helping people...not just killing them.). Anyone who can't shouldn't comment.

I have been with and involved with soldiers from around the world, the US, the UK, France, Turkey, Italy, Russian, Kuwati, Saudi, German, Spanish, Portugese, etc, etc,etc........in most places true soldiers are soldiers in spirit regarless of the politics.

It is quite simple to congratulate ANYONE who helps another regarless if they're on a luxery cruiser, a warship, or a luxery yatch. Just because others weren't placed in the headlines doesn't negate the actions or publicity thereof of another. Grow up.

Ok, Boogie-nicey, this whole rant wasn't directed completely at you, but at others that can't seem to just be happy that some one was there, and that some journalist is reporting on the right thing for once.

I guess it doesn't matter what you do for good or bad, you have to keep your head down!

What a shame.

SkyToddler
22nd Dec 2007, 17:17
The whole European continent would be speaking either German or Russian if others hadn't helped

yeah, and americans would be speaking japanese if they wern't helped.

con-pilot
22nd Dec 2007, 17:23
yeah, and americans would be speaking japanese if they wern't helped.

Wanna bet..................................................:E

brickhistory
22nd Dec 2007, 17:43
yeah, and americans would be speaking japanese if they wern't helped.

A long stretch to make, but I'll go with it.

You're right, we received some invaluable help from gents named Fermi, Szilard, Teller, et al............

B Fraser
22nd Dec 2007, 17:47
The US Navy..... another Scottish invention ;)

El Grifo
22nd Dec 2007, 17:49
Quote:
yeah, and americans would be speaking japanese if they wern't helped.
Wanna bet............................................... ...



The only purveyors of the "Golden Globe Award" at the time :}

con-pilot
22nd Dec 2007, 17:55
The US Navy..... another Scottish invention

Former Scottish thank you. ;)

radeng
22nd Dec 2007, 18:09
C'mon shotover.
We don't agree with a lot of US government policy, as a lot of US citizens don't, but leaving aside things like Abu Graib, the US military do appear to do their very best in the humanitarian stakes, and the fact that some of us are prepared to recognise that they do, in general, have the highest possible standards, shouldn't lead to sarcastic comments. Sure, in any armed force as big as the US or the UK, there's always going to be some bad guys. But it's very small percentage.
I still maintain that the way the USN have obviously spent a lot of money and time in doing this humanitarian act is very creditable to all concerned. Your tax dollars at work - arguably far better than CalTrans spending!

west lakes
22nd Dec 2007, 18:11
The US Navy..... another Scottish invention



Aye but at least Whitehaven UK did finally forgive them, and they (the US Navy) apologised

G-CPTN
22nd Dec 2007, 18:29
For the dance? http://www.eijkhout.net/rad/dance_specific/pauljones.html

west lakes
22nd Dec 2007, 18:47
From http://www.whitehaven.org.uk/information-historical.html


One of the most momentous historical facts of a military character, connected with the annals of Whitehaven, is the daring attempt of the notorious Paul Jones to fire the shipping in the harbour. He landed here early in the morning of the 23rd of April, 1778, with about thirty armed men, from on board an American privateer, the Ranger, mounting 18 six pounders and 6 swivels, which had been equipped at Nantes for this hostile expedition. Jones, who was a native of Galloway, had served his apprenticeship as a seaman, on board a vessel belonging to Whitehaven. These desperadoes set fire to three ships, expecting the flames would spread through the two hundred then in the harbour, but being betrayed by one of their companions, who fled into the town and alarmed the inhabitants, this catastrophe was prevented by their timely defence. Jones and his crew therefore made a precipitate retreat, having spiked all the guns in the nearest battery, and re-embarked in two boats, before any force could be brought against them. Three of the guns were, however, soon cleared, and several shots fired, but the adventurous enemy escaped unhurt, and afterwards landed on the coast of Galloway, where they plundered the house of the earl of Selkirk. Soon after this rencounter, great exertions were used to put the harbour in a proper state of defense, and a subscription for this purpose amounted, in the space of four days, to £857 5s. 3d., the chief part of which sum was necessary to render the Batteries efficient. An additional supply was received from Woolwich, making the total number of guns 98, amongst which were 12 forty-two pounders, and 18 thirty-six pounders.


Though reading it I don't know if the scots forgave him

G-CPTN
22nd Dec 2007, 19:04
25 Apr 1778- NEWS:
Whitehaven: "On Saturday last the Hussar, armed wherry, Capt. Gurley, belonging to this Custom-House, being on a cruize, the Point of Air, bearing E.S.E. distance about two leagues, at 10 A.M. saw two sail to the northward, one a large ship and the other a cutter. Captain Gurley, supposing the cutter to be a smuggler, made sail after her, on which she bore away for the Scotch shore. The large ship perceiving the Hussar in chace of the cutter, bore down upon her, about one o'clock, and keeping to the windward of Mr. Gurley, came within hail, and asked from whence he came, and if he could let him have a pilot; Mr. Gurley answered, "that, being on a cruize, he could not spare one," and asked from whence they came, and where bound,- no answer was made to the first question, but said the vessel was called the Molly of Glasgow, that they wer strangers on the coast, and again asked for a pilot, Mr. Gurley answered as before, and was, in a threatening manner ordered to bring to, or they would sink him- in an instant the ports were knocked open, the decks filled with men, and a tier of guns run out, several vollies of small arms were then fired into the Hussar, and such of the great guns as could be brought to bear upon her. The Hussar tacked several times, keeping as much as possible on the ship's quarter, until they got out of the reach of her guns; they suffered much in their sails and rigging, having many shots through them, and one shot in her hull- happily none of the people received the least hurt. The Hussar, after attempting, without success, to get to Belfast Lough, in hopes of meeting with some of his Majesty's ships, bore away for this Port, where she arrived on Sunday morning.
As the smuggling business, for some time past, has been known to be carried on by large vessels, with tenders to land their goods, and Capt. Gurley's report, generally, carrying that idea along with it, threw the inhabitants, in some degree, off their guard-----"

"and last Thursday morning, about two o'clock, 20 men, together with the Captain, landed on the battlement near the head of the Old Quay, from a boat belonging to the said vessel (which proves to be the Ranger American privateer, from Nantz, then standing off and on about two miles from this harbour) whilst another boat came into the harbour and landed 10 men at the old quay slip, when they proceeded to Nich. Allison's, a public house, on the Old Quay, they made very free with the liquors, &c. and would not permit any of the family to stir out; after which a party went on board the Thompson, Capt. Johnston, a coal laden vessel, lying opposite to Allison's, took the boys out of bed, and set her on fire: They offered money to the boys to induce them to go with them, but on their refusing, they put them under guard on the quay, without any covering other than their shirts; having handkerchiefs tied over their mouths to prevent their crying out, at the same time the privateer's people threatening to shoot them if they made any noise or resistance.- immediately after the alarm was effectually given, the fire engines were brought to the quay, and, by the vigorous exertions of people of all ranks, the fire on board the Thompson was speedily extinguished, without damaging any other vessel; thus were the mailcious attempts of those daring incendiaries frustrated.- Lighted matches, made of canvas dipped in brimstone, had been thrown on board several other vessels, but had gone out without having the intended effect.
The Thompson has received very considerable damage, her cables, and almost every thing in the cabin and steerage were burnt, and the decks have suffered much, she is a new vessel and esteemed worth 2500£.
The privateer's people were all armed with pistols and cutlasses, and retired to their boats about four o'clock (taking with them one boy, belonging to the Thompson; and Mr. George Jefferson, formerly master of the Isaac and Barbary, going down to the Quay, about three o'clock on Thursday morning, intending to go a fishing, was also secured and carried off; a boy taken from the Saltham, made his escape.) They had on their first landing, spiked up several of the cannon, in order to secure their retreat. A number of people flocking to the forts, some shot were fired at the boats, but without doing any execution. After the boats reached the privateer, she stood over to the Scotch side."

"David Freeman a seaman belonging to the above party, who, it seems, intentionally made his escape, was the first person who gave the alarm of fire. He was secured, early in the morning, and about eight o'clock was brought before several of the Magistrates and principal Gentlemen, then assembled at Hailes's Coffee-Room.
What follows is the principal part of the information communicated by Freeman.
The Ranger mounts eighteen 6 pounders, and 6 swivels, and has upwards of one hundred and forty men- sailed from Piscataqua, in New England, for Brest on the first of November, last, and arrived at Nantz for Quiberon Bay, where she laid about three weeks, and then went for Brest- left Brest about three weeks ago, under convoy of the Bretagne a French frigate of 38 guns and 400 men, which frigate accompanied them through the Bay to the chops of the channel. The orders they received from the frigate were, not to speak or give chace to any vessel 'till the frigate left them; since which time, they have taken or destroyed the following vessels, viz.
A Ship from London for Dublin, with rum, sugar, a variety of other goods, and Gen. Irwin's baggage, sent to Brest.
A Brig loaden with Flax-seed, sunk.
A Schooner loaden with Barley and Oats, sunk.
A Sloop from Dublin for London, in Ballast, sunk.
David Freeman says, that he is a native of Ireland, about 21 years of age, that when about five years of age (never having known his parents) he was carried to America by Thomas McMillan, a blacksmith, who settled in the Town of Worcester, after that in Leinster, in Massachusett's Bay, where he continued 'till New York was taken by the King's forces; when travelling with his Master towards New York, to join the King's troops, they were taken by the rebels, and put in prison; that his Master soon made his escape, but he did not escape 'till 12 months after, when he went to Piscataqua and entered on board the Ranger in hopes of getting to his native country.
Freeman also says, that their intention of coming into this chaannel was to set fire to, and plunder, the Town and Harbour of Whitehaven, and believes the Captain had a fee from the Agent at Nantz for doing so, but does not know the Agent's name.- That the crew consisted of people of different nations, but mostly Americans, the Pilot and Barber French; and that they took their matches, ammunition, &c. on board in France.
When they came into Solway Firth the Captain made known his intention of landing somewhere, he acted as pilot, and mentioned his being well acquainted with the Town of Whitehaven and all the places in its neighbourhood. He made preparations for landing on Good Friday night, and Freeman believes they weree then very near Whitehaven, but the weather coming on very stormy they desisted from the attempt, and stood off towards the Scotch shore. On Wednesday night, again made preparations for landing, the wetaher being very fine, and the wind favourable, the Capt. explained his design fully to his men, and exorted them to stand by him; said, he would be the first who landed and the last who left the shore, that he hoped to destroy all the shipping in the harbour and to set fire to the Town, and that if success attended the undertaking, as he fully expected, the honour would be great to himself, which was all he desired, as to money he resigned all pretensions to his men, who, he assured, would receive the same reward for burning and destroying the ships as if they had taken them.
The boats attempted to land near Saltham, with intent to come round by the half moon battery, but were prevented by the rocks, which occasioned a delay of near half an hour.
-The crew of the Captain's boat spiked up the guns."

"Last Sunday or Monday night, the Ranger went into Belfast Lough, with an intent to attack an armed vessel lying there, but after going within musquet shot, and hailing her, stood out again.
The following are the names of the Officers of the Ranger: John Paul Jones, Captain; Thomas Simpson, first Lieutenant; Elijah Hall, second ditto; David Cullen, Sailing-master; Samuel Wallensford, Lieutenant of Marines.
The Ranger is not a fast sailor, but sails best when going large.
The crew of the above privateer have forty shillings per month, and to be allowed share of all prizes- such armed vessels as may be taken to be sold, and the full value to be divided amongst the crew." "The Captain of the Ranger is said to be a very passionate man, and the crew much dissatisfied with his conduct- he is a native of Scotland and served his apprenticeship to the Friendship, formerly belonging to this port, is known to several people here, and went by the name of Jack Paul; was sometime ago Master of a vessel, called the John, belonging to Kirkcudbright; stood a trial in London for the murder of his carpenter, and was found guilty, but made his escape." [That last bit isn't quite true...]

"The Magistrates and many of the principal Gentlemen met on Thursday in order to give directions about having a proper watch kept, and every necessary preparation has been made to secure this town and harbour from the future attempts of our enemies.
Expresses were forwarded to the Lords of the Admiralty, to the Militia at Penrith, the Mayors, Magistrates, and commanding Officers at Glasgow and Liverpool; several smacks also sailed express to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, the Magistrates of Belfast, and the Commanders of any of his Majesty's ships, to give the earliest intelligence of the above privateer, in order that every possible means may be used to take her.
The cannon on the different forts were all cleared, and mounted- a subscription was opened by the Gentlemen, and, so great was the ardour of the people, that a company of two hundred seamen and mechanics were embodied in less than an hour, on purpose to man the batteries, &c."
"As soon as the express arrived at Penrith, on Thursday, three companies of militia were ordered by the commanding officer to proceed for this place, with all expedition. They left Penrith at four o'clock in the afternoon, and arrived here about noon yesterday. Great praise is due to the officers and men, on this occasion, who travelled chearfully all night in order to assist the inhabitants of this place. The following officers are now here, Capts. Cooper, Barnes, Reed. Capt. Lieut. Kendall. Lieutenants Archer, Denton, Foster. Ensign Senhouse."

"Advice was yesterday received from Kirkcudbright, that a boat from the Ranger privateer, full of men, landed on the Isle near that place about eleven o'clock on Thursday, and, proceeding to the Earl of Selkirk's, demanded the plate belonging to his Lordship, which they took and carried off, said to be worth upwards of 600£. Capt. Paul, who made one of the party, having also demanded the schedule of the plate, observed a tea-pot wanting, which was likewise given him. Lord Selkirk being at Edinburgh, and only her Ladyship and a few of the servants at home, made it an easy matter for these villains to effect their purpose, without molestation. After telling them that they had set fire to the shipping at Whitehaven, they put off for the privateer, then in Wigton Bay." [Note that several parts of the above are inaccurate]

"On Thursday forenoon the Hussar wherry, with an additional number of men, went out in order to watch the motions of the above vessel, and to inform any of the King's ships they should meet with what she was; but the Hussar, having lost sight of her about nine o'clock on Thursday night, arrived here yesterday evening."

(from:- http://www.pastpresented.info/cumbria/chron78ma.htm )

see also(Jones' own account):- http://davidbradbury.members.beeb.net/jonesrep.htm

west lakes
22nd Dec 2007, 19:16
That's it, the USN actually sent the USS Leyte Gulf for the ceremony, anchored off Whitehaven for the best part of a week

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Leyte_Gulf_(CG-55)

radeng
22nd Dec 2007, 20:00
The USN seem to have something of a social purpose ,too.......
Some 20 years ago, we had an enginer in the Irvine, Ca, office. Steve was quite proud that he was a Vietnam war draft dodger, who had failed his mid term exams at university in psychology. However, he was quite open that his method of draft dodging in the early 1970's was to avoid being in the Army and being shot at, but was to join the USN for, I think, 7 years - it might have been 5. I suspect that most veterans and the USN and DoD would hardly count this as 'draft dodging'! He said it was better than college because you got paid and went to places where you could drink legally before you were 21, and you got taught a skill - in his case. electronics. The downsides was that every ship, even your own side, were 'targets' when you were on a submariine, and running round the decks was hard on the knees....
Now here is a case where 'tax dollars' at work produced a citizen who has undoubtedly put more back into the economy than the Navy put into him... so is not this a 'win-win' situation?
Which justifies a hell of a lot of mil expenditure!!
So I still say the USN do a good job - and I'm a Brit!

tony draper
22nd Dec 2007, 20:22
Interestingly old John Paul Jones refused to fly the new fangled American flag(stars and Stripes) and continued to fly the Grand Union Flag (Union Jack) on his ship for some reason,dunno why, we wudda strung the buggah up had we layed mits on him.
Incidentally he died in poverty in Paris forgotten by his adopted nation,think it was Roostevelt that decided the country needed some hero's and had him resurrected,quite literally.
:rolleyes:

Double Zero
22nd Dec 2007, 21:03
Folks, forget all this banter - I noticed quite a few posts back ( just seen this thread ) that Brick History has a month before retirement...

In most films I've seen - coincidentally from his side of the pond - that's tantamount to the same fate as the chap who beams down from 'Enterprise' wearing the red shirt !!!

If I were you, BH, I'd lock myself in an armoured, lead-lined room for a few weeks...

Have a long & happy retirement, hopefully you'll still post on Pprune.

There's been a lot of joshing here, but perhaps we should all remember the all pervasive mood of shock & outrage HERE in UK after 9 /11 - rather a lot of U.S. Flags on cars & houses wherever one looked - so please don't anyone in the U.S. Think anyone's serious here...

We are a lot more experienced & skilled at taking the P' though - take it there were no lighthouses around to challenge the R.Reagan ? :E

brickhistory
22nd Dec 2007, 21:11
00,

thank you for the thoughts and yes, we here do remember the outpouring of outrage and support following 9/11. That was and is appreciated.

My boss at the time was in London, scheduled to come back on 9/12.

Obviously, he was stuck for several days, but the camraderie he told of by the hotel, passers by, etc were touching.

Just as I hope, our thoughts, concerns, prayers were with y'all following the 7/7 bombings. And the other attempts - Scotland, London, again.

It's interesting to me that the professional militaries can work together well (with some pee-taking at times), but the rhetoric here gets so heated.


I will be joining one of the many alphabet soup civilian agencies that fill DC - stuck here until housing prices come back up and kid(s) are at a conveniant point in school to move. A 'gray man in a gray suit' as it were......

radeng
22nd Dec 2007, 21:53
bh,

I guess I'm going to be classed as cynical again, but I can't help feeling that far too much of the time, the mil and ex-mil people get sh*t upon - in both our countries.

Joe Public seem a bit incapable of differentiating between the job the mil are called on to do by the politicians, and the modus operandi - the way they do it.

So I reiterate - getting back to the original thread, I still feel the USN did a good job. Have a good retirement.

west lakes
22nd Dec 2007, 22:10
There's no doubt it is a case of job well done, but I got to thinking, to the best of my (limited) knowledge USN carriers don't sail alone, I wonder how many other USN vessels were involved in this mercy mission?

Dushan
23rd Dec 2007, 06:10
Within another week numerous other, already-dispatched USN ships of operation Unified Assistance (begun on 28 December) carrying humanitarian supplies including 7 ships with desalinization capability were arriving at points farther from the epicenter, including Sri Lanka where the Chatham was.
Perhaps this is what meant by they "managed to get there after the Royal Navy"? You were talking about that lone Royal Navy frigate, with it's 2 Lynx helicopters, in Sri Lanka.

And about a month later, after making sure that their airconditioned Range Rovers, were delivered, the UN personnel started arriving....

West Coast
23rd Dec 2007, 08:28
"I know you guys work on the principle shoot first, ask questions later"

"Here's my I-POD and keys to the rubber boats. Ask questions anytime, I'm at your disposal till the photo shoot"

A much better working principle.

Double Zero
23rd Dec 2007, 14:38
Touche !

Back to the original story of airlifting the sick girl from the cruise liner -( I happen to agree with the line,job well done, but all services or anyone else with a capability to help other deserving types would & should ).

My point is, as someone early on pointed out, why the hell do these ships happily charging thousands of people mega-bucks not have decent medical facilities on board, by law if ethics don't work as they seem not to - especially as cruise customers tend to be on the older side of the age range ?

And why the hell don't they have heli-pads ?

I can see points for & against having a helo' of its' own based on the ship, both for emergencies and for pleasure flights etc - but safety concerns in event of a take-off or landing accident might preclude that ( ? ) - but for Christ's sake surely they can have a decent heli-pad, could presumably be used for something else in the meantime ?!!!

Maybe they could do a ' reverse Thunderbird 1 ' and have a sliding cover over a swimming pool to land on !