Jetstar roadshow in Jan `08?

[deerated]

Anybody got any idea on the rumour going round about Jetstar coming to SA in early Jan for a roadshow?

[Hot Shots]

Really hope the rumour is true. Any news anybody? :)

[Q4NVS]

Sounds good yes, but I personally think it is just that, a Rumour..!

Even their website does not show Vacancies, just the following:

Jetstar Line Pilot Positions - A320, A330, B787
Status: Accepting Interest

JETSTAR PILOT POSITIONS

The role of a Jetstar pilot can be very demanding with every day bringing new and exciting challenges. You will need a mature attitude, cool head and enjoy working in a team orientated environment.

Jetstar is continuing to expand with future growth opportunities for its Australian operations. Jetstar currently operates a fleet of Airbus A320 and A330 aircraft. Today, the Jetstar fleet includes twenty-three brand new Airbus A320 aircraft and four Airbus A330 aircraft, with a further two Airbus A330 and nine Airbus A320 aircraft to enter service from mid 2007.

Long haul international services commenced in 2006 with an initial route structure between Australia and the Asia/Pacific region. This expansion has seen Jetstar operate an aircraft fleet encompassing A320s, A330s and from late 2008 the new Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner will begin entering service for our Long Haul operations.

We are currently accepting expressions of interest for pilot positions. By registering your interest with us, you may be considered for positions on the Airbus A320, Airbus A330 aircraft or Boeing B787 aircraft.

Jetstar is a wholly owned subsidiary of Qantas Airways Ltd but is managed separately and operates independently. Our headquarters is in Melbourne.

[Woof etc]

I heard the same rumour a month ago from an Aussie colleague who heard it from a friend who works at Jetstar, so there might be some truth in the rumour. I know for a fact that they have a serious shortage of pilots. Might want to contact them and ask?

[flyknight]

Got an email from lady called Amanda. Yes, they will be SA on 8 Jan. Submit your application via Jetstar website to secure an interview

[Q4NVS]

I suppose you are Airbus 319/320 rated then, or not..?

Good Luck anyway.

:ok:

[Placido]

Jo'burg, 8 to 17 Jan. Again at the end of Jan.

Not only airbus rated aplicants.

At this stage, for the A319/320, to move to the B787 later.

F/O positions.

[i-Robot]

The fact that one has to pay (they ask you to submit credit card details) to register a CV with this company is a bit of a turn-off...

[wayne_krr]

I didn't think South Africans liked Australians. Won't be easy living there amongst them.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Plenty of Saffers living in Ozmate.:ok:

The lifestyles are pretty similar with sport and the outdoors playing a big part, so no problem fitting in. The hardest part is having half the brain removed so they don't gag on their own tongues when shouting for the Wallabies...:E







Probably beats being stuck on that mudbank off Europe. We can always gang up on the Northern Hemisphere...:}

[i-Robot]

Just had a look at their salary scales and it'll have to be jacked up substantially if they want to attract Airbus rated pilots.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Unless quality of life counts for more than money. You don't have to barricade yourself into your home every night in Skippyland.

[SubsonicMortal]

I-Robot, where did you see their salary scales?

[R.Cruizo]

G'day Guys,
i- Robot raises some good points. Jetstar ask you to pay to register your application AND until recently pay for the cost of the " Skills & Psyche " test at stage one of the interview.

The amounts are $ 15 AUD to register and $ 195 for the S & P test.

This was even for some Airbus rated pilots, it has caused some angst here in Aussie and possibly the reason they are not attracting the applicants they wish to.

They may have changed the selection process since then.

Not at all trying to turn you guys off, just giving you a heads up on what they may propose thats all.

Good luck

RC

[deerated]

Seems like they`ve (Jetstar) left the invites to the selection process a bit late...???Got one from recruitment like Flyknight` said. Bit concened about what they gonna offer, since obviously coming to SA to get the experience, they can`t find in AUS, problem is...is it gonna be worth it to pack up and go...:hmm:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Depends whether you'd like to arrive in Oz as a refugee or an immigrant.

[Go Right Ahead]

Shame man....we have enough Yarpies in Oz as it is. I think every Aussie would agree that the Yarpies are a strange lot, with all there pleeeeasure man, shame, now now, just now. :ugh: By the way better get use to actually pronouncing the some words properly such as Weber not weeeeber and its a BBQ not a Braai.

Anyway having said that, yes it is confirmed that Jet* are coming to SA and it's not because of experienced pilots, they can get them anywhere in the world. It's purely to do with Yarpies been cheap, experience has shown they will do almost anything to get into Oz. There are a lot of Europeans also who want to get into Oz but I dont see Jet* and QF doing roadshows in Europe. Plus records show that Yarpies are a bunch of YES man and dont have a spine, there are a very selected few who differ from that. Having seen the way your country is going im not surprised you want to get out, specially with Zuma lurking in the background as the new head honcho.

Good luck with all your applications, im sure with the shortage you guys stand a good chance. Try to remember you are coming to an open minded society......Shame man.

[4HolerPoler]

Take it easy guys - this conceited Ozmate is baiting for game. A review of his posts indicate an ex-Ansett type who's obviously unhappy with his own current lot, considering Cathay, Etihad and a few others for employment. Throw in a disdain for Saffers, an obvious hate for the Froggies, a large chip on his shoulder and he's your perfect welcome mat.

Tosser's looking for a reaction - ignore his claptrap.

4HP

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Probably a Skippy who's had half his brain removed so he can cheer for the Wallabies without blushing.

[wayne_krr]

Solid Rust you better find another line, you've used that one twice. Half of Australia have no idea who the Wallabies are.

No doubt Go Right is operating on the fringe but there is a point to his comments.

There are plenty of Aussie pilots who are qualified for the jobs in Oz, both in airlines and GA. Jet* are using guys like you so that conditions don't have to be improved in Australia to attract Australian candidates. That makes people angry.

What makes them even more angry is when people live in their country but have no respect for it.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

It's the Alzheimer's.:} Can't blame Oz companies' policies on those they wish to employ, mate. Pick on the companies themselves if you want to change things.

The Ozmates I know are all a good bunch and have no problems with others, although most have worked outside Oz as expats themselves so probably see it from a different point of view. Saffers will probably have less problems assimilating into Oz society because of the similarities and are usually bright enough to adapt their culture to fit into their new home. Those who don't integrate are more than likely in a minority and should rethink their choices if they want to be happy where they are. It takes a generation or so to become completely Oz so give it time, rather than get wound up. We're all immigrants or descendants of immigrants of one kind or another.

As for Go Right, he's proof Oz is a liberal progressive society. In SA we put our plonkers in parliament where we can keep an eye on them instead of letting them loose on the street without a minder...:E

[wayne_krr]

Fair enough comments. People are definitely unhappy with J*. I know enough people from SA to know that if jobs were being being offered to outsiders because the nationals weren't taking them then there would be a fair degree of unhappiness.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Fair enough. We already have a number of foreign folks working for the contract operators. Plenty of Skippies and Kiwis in Maun too. Good blokes and always available for a cold chibuli....:ok:

[i-Robot]

Did some research, but please don't quote me on this:


First Officer

Base (Narrow Body)
82,100**
Base (Wide Body)
89,000**
Top (Narrow Body)
102,000**
Top (Wide Body)
113,000*


Captain

Base (Narrow Body)
136,860**
Base (Wide Body)
147,800**
Top (Narrow Body)
171 100**
Top (Wide Body)
185 000*



Allowances:
Flight Pay / Per Diem last update

Capt Overtime >75 hrs/ month. $161 p/h Narrow Body, $175 p/h Wide Body. (Aug 2006*) 27/May/06**
FO $97 p/h Narrow Body, $105 p/h Wide Body (Aug 2006*) 27/May/06**

Notes:
1.Current Fleet:

23 Airbus A320-200 (Narrow Body) replacing a fleet of 14 B717-200. (12/Jul/05)

2. Orders:

6 Airbus A330 (Wide Body) as stop gap measure until arrival of at least 10 B787 commencing in 2008.


The amounts are in Aussie dollars. I'm not sure if there's any housing allowances, pension, education, etc. maybe someone can share some light....

[MAX]

housing allowances, education, etc. maybe someone can share some light

I deleted the pension but the other two... your dreamin.

MAX:cool:

[Go Right Ahead]

I think Wayne understands my point precisely. I have nothing against people wanting to immigrate to Oz, God knows my ancestors were immigrants too but having been here 3 generations now, I can see why people want to come here. Its possibly one of the best countries to live in and bring up a family. Sure it has its negative points, but which country doesnt. My only gripe is when people dont respect the country and its law of the land. There is nothing worst than sitting in a pub and hearing immigrants(no disrepect intended) who have made Oz home, complain and bitch about the place. And of course the old, back in such and such this wouldnt happen. I hate to say this but in my experience it seems the Yarpies are the worst at it, sorry but mates of mine have all noticed a similar trend..obviously where there is smoke there is fire... I saw a tshirt a while back and it read " Australia Love it or :mad: OFF"....:ok:

But more on this topic, it has been an unwritten rule that the Oz pilot fraternity are trying to improve their conditions which in turn will benefit those coming to work here, and therefore most of us have taken a stand to boycott these low paying and crappy conditions Airlines until they pull their fingers out and start offering us what we believe we are worth. Just have a look at what is been offered to work in the mines to people with no qualifications and i mean not even finishing high school. Think its time for Jet* and the likes to have a look at what the global airline industry is offering to keep guys.

I guess you can all understand why it is frustrating for those waiting back and trying to improve conditions, then to find people jumping at the opportunity to do the job for half the price. You Saffers are caught between a rock and a hard place, as most of you who want to come to Oz because of the Visa but then again you need to step on some toes due to the situation the airlines have put you into.

[E-tjops]

I can understand your frustration "go right ahead" but REALITY is when you are not welcome in your own birthcountry anymore ,where crime is rampant and a future for our children is uncertain, you would’ve done EXACTLY the same. Believe me, every Yarpie I know wouldn’t just move for the hell of it. We all love our country but circumstances beyond our control makes the choice of jumping ship mush easier. Everybody have to think about their own family and future. I agree, respect the country where you have a future or swim back where you are coming from.
I’m sure you couldn’t give a rats ass about our problems on this side of the big pond but with all due respect, the feeling is mutual.

[E-tjops]

How rude of me bitching on new years eve… Happy new years to all our oz mates and see you soon. At least we all enjoy a cold frostie. Good luck and blessings for 2008!!!!!

[Go Right Ahead]

Mate i fully understand your situation. I have spend a fair bit of time travelling thru SA and i did love the place very much, specially Capetown, the wine region and Haut bay and so on. I could not agree with you more that you have a very beautiful country and I have always said it myself, if it wasnt for Oz, i could easily live in Capetown. Obviously if situations improve i mean.
So i do understand that family and future comes first and hence i mentioned you guys are left with not much of a choice. Perhaps i didnt explain myself properly or maybe you interpreted the post in another way.
All im saying is we are all a bit pissed off because we are trying to improve the lifestyle and conditions and when people accept conditions which are below standard, it will not improve anything. We need to airlines to realise that people will not accept there misely conditions, however as you can see in my post i did mention been stuck between a rock and a hardplace. By the way it's not just the Yarpies, we have a lot of General Aviation guys here flying B200 and other props who would kill for a jet seat, but as we are in contact with these guys directly, we can tell them to hold off a little while longer with their applications. Having said that there are still those around the country who are applying and getting in, but point been we are hoping the word is getting out slowly, so all will benefit in the future. I cant meet with you and your mates in the pub in SA to tell you this, hence i put it here so those who read it can take it in and perhaps realise why most Aussies are pissed off with what is happening.
As was mentioned before by someone else, i also have a lot of mates in GA who have more than enough experience to accept a right seat on a jet but they have decided against paying for a rating and then getting ****ty conditions. :=
All the best to you for 2008 and look forward to having a beer in a pub someone and discuss this in greater length

GRA

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Similar type of thing here with folks paying for ratings, even paying to fly right seat in some instances, and putting up with the crap conditions that go with operators like that to the detriment of the industry as a whole. If you do a search you'll find a couple of threads addressing these issues on this forum. Like you, I don't agree with it but the rock and hard place you mentioned are a bit closer to home in these parts. It's a tricky situation trying to choose between two evils, both of which will have far reaching effects. As things stand, it could be the difference between arriving in Oz as a refugee or an immigrant as mentioned earlier in this thread.

[olirindis]

Hi All and best wishes for 08,

You chaps in Oz should maybe call on IFALPA to assist in this regard in a similar fashion to what happened at Cathay some years back with the ban on recruitment. Its a bit of a tall order considering that the airline industry has evolved to the point where low cost outfits are only going to pay so much and no more based on their business model and cost structure. I don't think that we as crew have too much pull here, costs are costs.

I hope that you guys sort it out domestically and none of us has to migrate out there to spoil the party. Trouble with these things as usual is the employement side of the setup is much the same as the nature of the business itself.........a free market.

Adios..

[skychick2]

Has anyone been invited to the Jan'08 Jetstar roadshow in JNB?This rumour has just gone quite suddenly????

[777Contrail]

The Jet* show is going on.

I'm going to talk to them while on lay-over in SA.

Other saffers have apointments to talk to them in MEL.

I received mail stating they will be in SA, middle & end of January. Apointments can be made any time for Melbourne.

[putt for dough]

A mate of mine went to the roadshow on mon
and guess what? There was a long line of SAA cadets
waiting for their interviews :yuk::yuk:

[skychick2]

Does anyone got contact details or info where they are having there Raodshow, or aint you allowed to gate-crash?(by appointment only) ! Strange this Raodshow was held such a secret,unlike the other''flavours''that passed through with there well advertised roadshows.

Not a cadet,but I would also like to hear what they got to offer !!!!!!

[AirwayBlocker]

From what I hear its not so much a roadshow as individual interviews. And it seems to be mainly if not solely for airbus rated guys.

I stand to be corrected but the only guys I've heard of with interviews scheduled are airbus guys.

[deerated]

Compliments of the seaso!:)

Seems like the rumour is actually quite true...in fact here in Josieburg at the moment. Attended yesterday(1/1/8), was quite interesting and really worth some serious consideration!
They here for about a week or so, returning end Jan.Best way is to apply thru on-line application.....or of course go and have chat to them if you in this part of Souf Efrika??? (where every housewife drives a 4 X 4 since the roads are so shocking, and 436664 stands proud! ) figure that one out??:ugh:

[Q4NVS]

So the Location and Details is Unofficially then an Official Secret...:confused:

[E-tjops]

Its not a roadshow. Had an actual interview with the ozzi boys. You must be REALLY desperate to go to OZ as the "package" is non existant. The salary is a laugh and no other benefits, a typical low fair setup. No wonder the local lads in oz is giving them the finger.

Not sure what I expected but very doubtfull if I'll be interested in going on to the next phase (if there is one). Everyone to himself.

Goodluck to all.

[Q4NVS]

You must be REALLY desperate to go to OZ as the "package" is non existant. The salary is a laugh and no other benefits, a typical low fair setup.

Care to elaborate..?

[MAX]

Out of curiosity did they talk about license conversion and just how the work visa could be sorted?

MAX:cool:

[Gooneybird]

http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/exams/cyber/convexam.htm

The work visa is more interesting. As far I understood Australia removed pilots from the SOL (Skilled occupations list) due to the number of qualified Australian pilots without jobs. Maybe this changed, I don't know.

[E-tjops]

Jet* will sponsor a 4 year work visa in which time you can apply for permanent residency.
Have to write Australian cpl airlaw and do practical IF test to get license endorsed and then do altp airlaw :{:{

[i-Robot]

SAA training captains on A319 and A340 have been contacted directly by Jetstar, so I would imagine that the roadshow will be nothing like a walk-in Emirates roadshow.

[UncleJack]

Jet* will return to SA soon and is looking for more pilots.:D

They will need 200 this year and 200 next year. It would appear for both seats.:ooh:



Go to web sight or contact Amanda:ok:

[blow.n.gasket]

This conjecture of sponsorship, Aussie Residency, 457 Visas, etc, is purely that.
Since the change of Government in Australia, I think the big end of town are finding that the Government is no longer kowtowing whenever they tug the fetlock.

[E-tjops]

Sorry old mate but I don't have a clue what the hell are you saying. Here in down south we actually speak english!!! Care to try again in plain non kangaroooo english!!! :confused::confused:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

The Oz govt is more responsive to union overtures now, rather than that of big business. Your visa and work permit applications may be a little trickier to obtain, now that the strings are pulled by folks opposed to what they perceive as scab labour.

Better...?


Fetlock, Mr Gasket? Wouldn't that be a forelock? Tugging the fetlock would be akin to a bit of leg pulling, no?:}


Give it a year or two and we'll all roll up in Oz as refugees in any case.:(

[blow.n.gasket]

No leg pulling intended Mr Twotter.
Another thing our Sud Afrikan cousins might wish to consider prior to acceptance of the JetStar deal is to go over whatever contract is offered with a fine toothed comb.This JetStar lot as well as Qantas management are notorious for open ended contracts that always seem to go in their favour when push comes to shove, go figure.
Another aspect of this offer particularly if you are coming over as a direct entry Captain is the security of your tenure. Check very carefully the fine print purtaining to your seniority.
You might find that in order to keep your command JetStar needs to maintain compounding growth. Will that be possible with the impending economic troubles looming.
Thown into this equation is the fact that there has been a change of Government from far right wing to more middle of the road ,(potentially left of centre even.) As a result some aspects of the Labour Laws in Australia that may have allowed Qantas to unilaterally cancel aspects of the protective Award/Agreement that Mainline pilots operate under, in order to create a panicked pool of pilots to feed any potential growth in Australia have now or at least come Febrary will be all but impossible to use.
So any rhetoric emanating from JetStar managements mouth purtaining to the glorious usurping of Mainline pilots by the JetStar juggernaught is just that.
I'm also told on good authority, that there is a high likelyhood of legal action challenging the legitimacy of JetStar International under the Qantas Sale Act, another potential incumberance to any direct entry Captains keeping their left hand seat.
By all means, come to Australia, just be very careful in checking what is being offered!
Look before you leap ,so to speak.

[gondwalla]

Yarpies. Please be assured we Qantas and Jetstar pilots are in a fierce battle with the Qantas group over pay and conditions.
They are testing the waters to see if you guys will take the bad deal. We urge you not to. Better deals are on offer in most other airlines around the world.
Please say no to Jetstar.:ok:

[grant_737]

I think your plea's are falling on deaf ears. I know im going if i can. I work for one of the lowest paying airlines in SA, if not the lowest. So Jetstar is a better deal. Sure there might be better deals out there but not in a country like OZ.

I only got 2 questions :

1. Where do i SIGN ?
2. Would you like it in BLACK or BLUE ink ! :E

[Frogman1484]

Grant 7373 you forgot to ask ...is there electricity?

[gondwalla]

Grant737,
mate let me assure you, myself and my union AIPA will do everything in our power to stop you guys getting a 457 visa. We dont need you the company are basically using people like you as scabs.
We have a new federal government(labour) which will be sympathetic to our problem of scab labour invading Australia.
I am contacting my local member tomorrow to ask why SA's are allowed to take Aussie jobs.
Get ready for a battle Yarpies cause your not wanted in Oz.
Cheers.

[putco]

Gondi

How many whining Aussies have taken jobs on ZS aircraft in the past years, with the help of Yarpies?!

The mere fact that you Australians are too lazy to do your own dirty work is indicative of the fact that most SA doctors are practising in your rural areas. I fly with AUS nationals at the moment, geez you lot need to get over your scab trauma.

So, as the gentleman before me said, black or blue ink. The pay in AUS is better than in SA plus we get a visa to stay, no Zuma and no ESKOM!

You need to get used to that!

[Frogman1484]

Gondwala, do you really think that your local labor MP will stop J* from getting SA Pilots...wake up mate your coffee is getting cold.

Let me see If I get this right with Rudd promising to reduce inflation within 5 years he is going to tell Australian companies you are not allowed to recruit SA pilots because you need to pay the Australian Pilots more, that way I can reduce pressure on the wage inflation front.

[grant_737]

Hey Guys, I need to make this quick, got no electricity and only got 5min of battery power left on me laptop :ugh:.

Maybe if all the Oz pilots left Cathay and Emirates and came back home you wouldnt NEED us "Yarpies". Never heard of the locals in HK and UAE up in arms about you boys taking their jobs.


gondwalla - guess a lift from the airport is out of the question then.

[Q4NVS]

:oh::}:D:O

Now bring the La-Z-Boy and PopCorn before this show is over...

[gondwalla]

YARPIES.....I will let you know what my labour MP says tomorrow about you guys taking Australian jobs.
Infact the Aussie media loves stories like this too!
Guys there is no pilot shortage in Oz just a shortage of people willing to do the job for the money and conditions.
You may want to check the new Jetstar EBA as they are about to introduce a B scale with even worse conditions for you desperadoes.
Infact it will be great to see you mob on third world conditions cause thats what you deserve if you do it.
Rest assured guys you will not be welcomed with open arms by jetstar or qantas pilots.
Think carefully guys your work environment may be very tense. :=

[mattman]

I think there is enough for everybody!!!!
Just cause a 200 CPL cant get work because he refuses to start at the bottom is no reason to squash the tide!!!!:=

MY 2C!!!



Aviation Industry Needs to Tackle Looming Pilot Shortage


Washington - The International Air Transport Association (IATA) warned the world’s airlines of a severe pilot shortage unless industry and government work together to change training and qualification practices.

IATA issued a new estimate that the industry may need 17,000 new pilots annually due to expected industry growth and retirements. "Increasing the retirement age to 65 will help but it can’t be the only solution. It’s time to ring the warning bell. We must re-think pilot training and qualification to further improve safety and increase training capacity,” said Giovanni Bisignani, IATA Director General and CEO. He told the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) International Safety Forum, "the industry is concerned that there are no global standards for training concepts or regulation. Pilot training has not changed in 60 years - we are still ticking boxes with an emphasis on flight hours.”

IATA supports the competency-based approach of multi-crew pilot licensing (MPL) training programmes. Unlike traditional pilot training, MPL focuses from the beginning on training for multi-pilot cockpit working conditions. It also makes better use of simulator technology. Europe was among the first regions to adopt MPL and Australia and China are moving ahead with implementation.

IATA launched the IATA Training and Qualification Initiative (ITQI) to support a global approach to MPL implementation. “Our goal is to increase the pool of candidates and training capacity while improving standards,” said Bisignani. As part of ITQI, IATA will host a database to track the progress of MPL cadets and allow the industry to make training adjustments, if necessary. IATA also called for greater cooperation with governments. In China, IATA is working with the government to develop the syllabus and incorporate MPL into national regulation.

Bisignani also called on government leaders at the Safety Forum to incorporate the IATA Operational Safety Audit (IOSA) into their own regulations. Most recently, Mexico, Costa Rica and Turkey have committed to make use of IOSA. “The list is growing too slowly,” Bisignani said. “There is no cost to government and the results are clear.”



Myself would rather be in a Bizzie above all you moaning heavies:E

[grant_737]

gondwalla - Guys there is no pilot shortage in Oz

Thats not what your own news says

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22561995-951,00.html

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/2007/s2055765.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s2083038.htm

[whykikamoocow]

Grant 737 I suggest Grant A320 my son ;)

Good luck mate!

[Placido]

Well, many of my friends at SAA did interviews with J* recently, many of them experienced and rated on type.

I don't want to burst too many bubbles back in Vic state, but before a company can go on the recruitment trail they must have an OK for the number of possible recruits already.

They must also be able to show that the new recruits will be filling a labour gap that exist in Oz at present - BEFORE they can recruit.

J* already did this.

And before you go on about Oz having enough pilots, they are looking for EXPERIENCE. The people that are being interviewed are high hour (10 000hrs) people.
They are looking for future (next 18 months) captains.

Good luck manne!

[MAX]

There is no shortage of pilots in Oz. Just a shortage of pilots willing to work for the current pay IF the projected expansion continues.

When all the SAFA's move to Oz there will be a shortage of pilots there too.

Then both countries may bring in the Eastern Europeans etc etc.

Its a crappy cycle and equally crappy industry.

I have nothing against expats moving anywhere but we really are our own worst enemies sometimes. (Im an expat).

Good luck wherever you may roam.

MAX:cool:

[max autobrakes]

Placido,
If what you say is correct ,then how on gods earth are these chaps going to circumvent the JetSar seniority list?
JetStar F/O's I would suggest you read the upcoming EBA offer very carefully, if you wish to get a command in any reasonable time frame!
Good luck to you all , you'll probably need it.

[Go Right Ahead]

Fellow SA aviators, as I mentioned earlier we are all trying to improve conditions for all pilots concerned. Dont be fooled, there are a lot of aussie's with +5000hrs who are ready to take those seats but they are all waiting for the companies to stop paying CEO's and their cronies huge salaries and share the wealth around.
Grant 737 you make me sick, people like you gives this industry a bad name. I know you just cant wait to get out of your 3rd world sh*thole and looking at the news things wont improve in the immediate future. Im sure once you are sitting in that seat you will whinge like a little bitch because you cant make ends meet. You mentioned you are paid even less in RSA, well who's fault is that? Now you are coming to Oz to accept a low paid job, so why didnt/dont you and your Boets do something about your conditions. :ugh:
Gondwalla, mate keep up the good fight. Im sure eventually we will be able to get better packages. AIPA should form a petition, im sure you will get enough signatures to convince the pollies that we have enough talent in the country without having to go elsewhere. :ok:
Im sure eventually we will need pilots from other countries but lets look after the aussie's first then start branching out, once we have exhausted our options.
:mad::mad::mad:

[grant_737]

Pilot shortage starts to bite (29 August)
Australia’s long-predicted pilot shortage is starting to bite in a big way, according to a number of small to medium operators.
Flying schools report having difficulty hanging on to mid-career instructors, who are being snapped up by airlines, while regional commercial operators say they are having difficulty recruiting qualified people.
From www.allflying.com (http://www.allflying.com)

So if there is no shortage why do all the headlines say "SHORTAGE" it should then be changed to "under paid or lazy" I find it hard to believe that the whole world has a "pilot shortage" but OZ.

If what MAX is saying is true, then charter pilots and flying school instructors get paid so much higher then airline pilots that not even a A320 of B738 can get them to stop flying Cherokees or King airs.

[grant_737]

GO RIGHT AHEAD - whinge like a little bitch because you cant make ends meet

If you cant live on that salary you guy must have alot of hungry F/O's. Guess they walk to work to hey !!!!!!!

So stop having a SOOK and cry about it and HARDEN THR F:mad:K UP.
[For the guys that dont know what im talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY3TfjOeuhM ]

[MAX]

Grant 737,

I think you misunderstood my post.

GA pilots in Oz get paid crap.

There are many experienced Aussies overseas not willing to work in Oz because the money is crap. Not King Air pilots but Heavy metal pilots.

Just like there are many SAFA's not willing to work in SA and want to move to Oz.

No shortage of experienced pilots and noone is being lazy and overpaid.

Working hard for good money and retiring early in Oz from a career as an expat.... yes.:ok: but most would rather work hard for a proper wage and career structure in their home country... at a guess.

Dont we all?

MAX:cool:

[grant_737]

MAX,

I see what you are saying, But J* will never match a CX salary so those "experienced Aussies overseas" wont be coming back any time soon. You can't expect J* salaries to get those heavy metal guys back and in a FO seat, too.

Just like those guys went overseas looking for BIG money my "boets"[Thx-Go Right Ahead] and I are looking for lifestyle and a safe place to raise a family.

We not out to take anyone's jobs from them, but if there are not enough pilots IN OZ and those guys overseas dont want to come back home and a job gets offered to me , then i'm taking it!

You after the money and we after the family safety.

[beechbum]

Grant 737,
Any chance since you are gunning for "Oz" as you so put it, to try and make sense when you use the English language as it's a frikkin embarassement.......
Oh by the way SAA and a few other ailines are looking to hire foreign nationals from beyond our borders(read Africa) as there are no suitably qualified individuals available in SA..............now put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!
Now can you understand why the Aussies get upset when the "Yarpies" are inbound to take the jobs that they don't want! They are protecting their turf so to speak.The same as what you and I would do if we had an influx of individuals taking our jobs. All money related of course and if Jetstar and the likes had their ducks in a row fellas like you and I would not even get a look in.
I certainly wouldn't want a job knowing that every Aussie in the company would be on my case and breathing down my neck...........but hey that is my opinion.
Anyway good luck if that's what you are after.................:ok:

[reptile]

I have great simpathy for the Oz Mates trying to improve t&c's back home. The fact is that Aussie airlines pay crap money, however, many of the Saffas moving across are doing so not for the money, but to get the hell out of SA.

It's a sad state of affairs....

[UncleJack]

Some guys that are looking to go to Aus for less than they get as a package in SA.

The difference is that don't have to dodge bullets and watch their mates die?

[gondwalla]

Yarpies.
The AIPA president will meet with the minister for immigration and the minister for transport in the next two weeks to question the 457 visa loophole.
Jetstar has to prove there is a shortage of skilled applicants and prove they are training Australians before 457 visas will be issued.
The wheels are in motion guys to stop you people screwing our industry here. Either stay in SA or go to EK....dont come to OZ you are not welcome!

[MAX]

The difference is that don't have to dodge bullets and watch their mates die?

I understand.

In your shoes I would do the same.

Good luck.

MAX:cool:

[gondwalla]

Unclejack and Max.
Can you please spare me the drama.
Sorry guys you screwed your own country dont think you will do it in Oz. We will fight to stop it.
Oh by the way would SAA offer an Aussie a job?????:\

[reptile]

Sorry guys you screwed your own country.......

WTF?!?

Oh by the way would SAA offer an Aussie a job?????

I'm sure SAA would - if he is Aboriginal. You know, one of the forgotten Aussies.:}:}

[gondwalla]

Reptile, please be serious even if SAA could get an abo off his arse they still wouldnt give him a job.
Why dont you Yarpies move to Zim and get some of your own back.

[Whenwe]

I have just returned from a holiday with my son and his family living in Australia for almost 8years. He and his wife are highly qualified in their field and they are doing well and are happy, despite living in Sydney.

I qualify for a parents visa and they have done some home work and prepared this information for us.

Let me make no bones about it that there are many aspects of the Australian way of life that I am not excited about. I have travelled a lot in my life and there is no perfect country. Life is a compromise.

At this “dark” moment in the life of SA you cannot compare the countries. All I can say if you can go, go.
Good luck

I am having problems pasting the excel sheet. It is good information and if you want the excel version PM me.

(Prices quoted relates to a family of 4 in a medium to large home) Monthly expenses 4626.34
Expense Descriptions Rates per month Quantity Value
Rent normally 1/10th of a percent property value per week (i.e. $450 000 value house = $450p/week) $ 1,890.00 1 $1,890.00
www.domain.com.au

www.realestate.com.au

www.myhome.com.au



car Price varies from $15k new upwards depending on your needs. Second hand can be from $500 upwards to $ 514.98 1 $ 514.98
www.drive.com.au

www.carsales.com.au


rates/e/w Tarrifs are available but depends on area etc. This is normally a quarerly account. Rates & Service is a separate account. All together plan for $250 to 300 a month in Sydney may well be lower in other cities. $ 300.00 1 $ 300.00
www.agl.com.au

www.truenergy.com.au

$ -
groceries This will depend on preferences, meat & fresh vegetables is more expensive $ 850.00 1 $ 850.00
www.woolworths.com.au
$ -
www.coles.com.au
$ -

telephone Telstra/optus line - link below to possible package offer $ 50.00 1 $ 50.00
Mobile phone contract varies from $30 to $100 - minimal charge will give you a good rate and cover approximate 100 minutes $ 30.00 1 $ 30.00
Broardband $ 30.00 1 $ 30.00
Help services offers.bigpond.com
$ -
Help services www.acma.gov.au

www.virginmobile.com.au

www.savvytel.com.au

telstra.com

www.optus.com.au
$ -

insurance House hold contents $ 100.00 1 $ 100.00
Vehicles vary from $800 to $2000 a year $ 66.67 1 $ 66.67
Special items - this all depends on what your after $ -
www.gio.com.au

www.nrma.com.au

www.quotesonline.com.au
$ -
www.ing.com.au


fuels Cost of Fuel varies during the week as it is deregulated - but varies from $1.20 to $1.50. Average mileage depends on your job and needs average is 20000km a year. $ 250.00 1 $ 250.00
Help services www.shell.com
$ -

medical aid You will need private medical aid. Link refers to a basic package to get started. Have a look and see how you go. $ 149.86 1 $ 149.86
www.hba.com.au
$ -
www.nib.com.au
$ -
www.hcf.com.au


foxtel Satalite TV, again an option (fees start at $36 upwards to $99) $ 99.00 1 $ 99.00
www.foxtel.com.au
$ -

school Public shooling is free but will include books, excursions etc. (Maybe $200 a year). Link below will provide you more on the schooling and differences between States $ 16.67 2 $ 33.33
Private schooling is available and will depend on needs and cost can vary from $2000 to $25000 p.a.
Help services www.edna.edu.au

$ -
Car Service Depends on make and model, and then A, B or C service. Link below will provide you with loads of information around running costs etc for vehicles in Australia. NRMA is Austalia's road side assist program too. $ 50.00 1 $ 50.00
Car registration Annual payment for registration and third party cover $ 62.50 1 $ 62.50
Help services www.mynrma.com.au


Entertainment Mc Donalds meal for 4 will be $25/$30
Dinner out at a nice resturant $100 up to $200 $ 150.00
Movies tickets approx $15 per person
www.menulog.com.au

www.greaterunion.com.au

[reptile]

even if SAA could get an abo off his arse ...
What a classic reply!!! It certainly says a lot about your prejudice. This from guy who makes comments about how we screwed up South Africa. Classic!!!

Back to the tread: It's a simple choice for the Saffas. Either you run the risk of pissing off a couple of Aussies or you run the risk of getting shot by the gun totting mad men who roam this country. I bet most would go for option one. Besides, two years down the line they would all be mates again and then stand together to try and keep the South American pilots out of Oz.

[trubru]

I would say that the Gondwally has truly exposed himself as a xenophobe!
As with all phobias, a xenophobic person is aware of the fear, and therefore has to believe at some level that the target is in fact a foreigner.
This must be a terrible thing to try and live with....wouldn't want to see this character in a multi-cultural, multi-crew environment. :ugh:

[ByAirMail]

In the late 1980's S.A.A. Cargo, through SAFAIR, got some cheap Russian crew's to run AN 32's on night freight to Durban and up and down the coast.
We as pilots complain bitterly to ALPA-SA.

How can we employ pilots who was prepare to work for a chance to get out of the East block stay in cheap accommodation, low allowance etc. was the big out cry.

Now we cannot understand that the Aussies are upset at us interfering and undermining their domestic situation??

[trubru]

Spot on, Flyboy!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Cheap shot at Nigeria uncalled for, mate.

[Q4NVS]

Gondwalla

Just a few points of order mate:

The wheels are in motion guys to stop you people screwing our industry here. Either stay in SA or go to EK....dont come to OZ you are not welcome!

It was Jet* that came to SA with a roadshow and not SAA Crew that went to Jet* with a roadshow.

Oh by the way would SAA offer an Aussie a job?????

The Government owned airline that I work for, has recently (4 or 5 months) appointed an Aussie (and a young one at that).

Now stop your harping, hit the books, get your PPL and apply for the REX and/or QantasLink scholarship...:E

[777Contrail]

Before AIPA can do ANYTHING, the J* pilots will have to vote down the present EPA, get rid of the JPC and all walk over to AIPA.

THEN, AIPA will have to face the fact that J* advertised in Oz and all over the globe for Ozzie pilots - but didn't get takers.

The J* management went through the due process BEFORE starting to recruit o/s for "scab" labour.

If you have a problem with o/s pilots, talk to the management. They are recruiting (like Skippers and Regional Surveilance), the Saffer pilots aren't forcing ANYONE out of a job.

I did the interview in Cape Town and I'm more than willing to relocate (again), take a knock for a couple of years (worst case) and move on with life.

I have a feeling the Oz pilots that are complaining about the Saffers are (1) Qantas f/o's wanting a command at J* (2) Low hour GA pilots wanting a fast track into a jet (3) a few J* pliots that believe that although the Australian industry is short of 1800 ALTP's THIS YEAR, 100 Saffers will oversaturate the market:ugh:!

[777Contrail]

Two Ozzie pilots fly for the SA company I used to work for.

Neither bothered to apply to J*.

You see, they can alway move back home if the cookie crumbles in SA.

The rest of the Saffers have to take the gaps as they present themselves.

[Alternate Law]

I thought it was the sheep who are meant to be nervous in Oz - not the sub-10 000 hour crowd..:hmm:

[loveflying737]

Yarpies.
The AIPA president will meet with the minister for immigration and the minister for transport in the next two weeks to question the 457 visa loophole.
Jetstar has to prove there is a shortage of skilled applicants and prove they are training Australians before 457 visas will be issued.
The wheels are in motion guys to stop you people screwing our industry here. Either stay in SA or go to EK....dont come to OZ you are not welcome

:bored:Yeh and I am sure that Jet* don't know what is required of them. They have been recruiting for a substantial amount of time. After exhausting all avenues to find "suitably qualified" pilots they have resorted to employing pilots on 457 visas. Are you (or AIPA) sure that they have not done their homework.

Does anyone suppose that Jet* has gone ahead with this option without getting the necessary approvals.

[Golf_Seirra]

Out of interest, what are the poor salaries been offered in Oz that the guys are arguing about ? In SA, low cost airline terms, a P2 737 earns around USD 2,300 take home pay. For some chaps, it's a step up the ladder to move to Oz, even if the salary level is low for locals.....for others it's the chance to catch the ferry before it's too late.

Maybe the bottom of this is command slots.....no-one really gives a toss about the FO's anyway.....:(

[Go Right Ahead]

Trubru and Gautengflyboy, thats a bit rich coming from you guys. Trubru, the word Abo is shortened for Aboriginals, what is "Kaffa" short for. Although not PC, many people refer to the Aboriginals or Indigenous Australians as Abo's. I have Aboriginal friends who introduce themselves as Abo's(yes i know its not a nice word and i would never introduce them as such). I had the opportunity to have some drinks and Braai's with a few SA guys i know and once the liquor is flowing their true characters came out, i was so embarassed to see people still think like that in these day and age. After a couple of these get togethers, i figured these guys are not going to change hence i broke off all contact with them.
G/flyboy, you mention about intregration and we should be proud Saffa's want to be part of Oz and making similarities between us. Mate, my experience and many guys I speak with on the flightdeck including those who went to Africa to build hours think you are a bunch of racists. It's only recently that you can see a black walking together hands in hands with a white in SA, even that's gets a look by many of you Saffa's. All im saying is there might be a few Bigots in Oz, however there are only a few non-bigots in the Saffa crowd. :mad:
How can you make comparisons, the spirit of us Aussies to "Give 'em a fair go", hence why you see many immigrants succeeding eg the Mayor of Melbourne been an Asian gentleman. History shows prior to Robben island opening its doors, all the top jobs went to the Boets or Boerer(forgive the spelling), a qualified coulored person could not even dream of such a job. Those that did get a job you could count on one hand and this is slightly over 10yrs ago.:eek:
Anyway back to the post.......:D

GRA

[trubru]

In various contexts, the terms "xenophobia" and "racism" seem to be used interchangeably, though they have wholly different meanings (xenophobia being based on place of birth, racism being based on ancestry). For example: to dislike a black person from France because they are French is xenophobic, but to dislike them because they are black is racist.

I was merely referring to Gondwalla's post about us "SAFFA's" not being welcome over there and I still believe Xenophobe would be the right term for him!

Unfortunately for you I've never made any reference to Abo's or made any other racial statement. An apology from your side would be appreciated mate.

I'd like to have a braai with you sometime to see your true colours... bet your not squeaky clean either.

Back to the thread: Any new news from Jet* about our direct entry positions boys?:ok:

[skyvan]

A few months ago, as I went through the process of deciding where to go, as my country (sorry, not my country, because I'm white...I can't be an african!), I laid out the options to my family. My good lady refused point blank tp even consider Australia. She seems to think that many Aussies are anal and arrogant. I wonder where she got that idea from ;)

So we are going to the big beach, bucket and spade packed and ready to go!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

It's a pity we have these misconceptions about each other. Most Ozmates i've met and worked with have been decent folks, as are most Saffers. I guess it only takes one or two twonks to cement a myth in place.:hmm:

[777Contrail]

:zzz::zzz::zzz::zzz::E

[Go Right Ahead]

Trubru i do apologise as that part of my post was directed at Reptile not you, however with a comment like this:

I'd like to have a braai with you sometime to see your true colours... bet your not squeaky clean either.

You are admitting you have skeletons in your closet mate. You are welcome to come and have a bbq with me and my mates anytime, just a word of warning though. I live a very multicultural life and my friends might be the reason you would not come back again, Yep you would certainly see my true colours and the colours of my friends. I said it earlier about going to some SA boys bbq's and from your comment it clearly shows you would fit in with them very well. I have nothing to hide mate, what you see is what you get, unfortunately not same can be said about the SAFFA's i met. I guess that why you SAFFA's have such a tight little community and only hang around each other. Would you say thats because you were excluded from partaking with the rest of the western world for so many years?

Skyvan, good thing you decided not to come. Saves you dealing with us Anal and Arrogant bastards. Seems your good lady knows where she wouldnt feel welcome.

[777Contrail]

Somehow this thread has devolved into a type of mudslinging contest of "who's been the worst towards the natives, and still is the worst even today!".:{

J* management decided to recruit pilots (and other operational staff) from airlines all over the globe.

When they came to South Africa, they found a bunch of willing people who can actually speak some English, and that were in great need of a safe haven for their families.

I have been to most places around the world and, although I have a half dozen other options, I would prefer a job in Australia for my family's sake.

Back to Africa is becoming a non-option, more every day...............:(

[trubru]

Cheque please!

[reptile]

…part of my post was directed at Reptile..

Just to straighten things out. I was no referring to the “Abo” bit in the original post - although I personally find the word Abo to be extremely derogatory - but to the fact that the post implies that all Aboriginals are lazy. Making a statement like “even if SAA could get an abo off his arse...” is racist, plain and simple.

You need to keep in mind that many of the South Africans - and I am certainly not implying that this was the case for everyone- who emigrated to Australia in the mid nineties, did so because they could not accept the political changes taking place in South Africa at that time. I am therefore not in the least surprised that certain racial prejudices among them surface from time to time.

I am however offended by your statement that all white South Africans are racists. I won’t hold it against you, because had you known me personally, you would never have written something as stupid as you just did.

[Q4NVS]

I had the opportunity to have some drinks and Braai's with a few SA guys

And I once walked past a book store, about 3 years ago...That made me an instant "Expert" on ALL Topics, Organisms and Cultures. :ugh:

Simply put M8, you DO NOT have a clue. So I suggest you put a cork in it.

When you really do feel the urge to grind your axe of newly found wisdom, why not start with your Rugby Team first, HaHa!

:E

[777Contrail]

So, anyone heard anything from J*?

I was told that I've moved on to "stage 5".

They will now check my references.

Must be a good sign!

Well Grant737, are you on your way to the airport yet?

[max autobrakes]

Where does this leave the great recruiting drive now that the EBA has been knocked back?
:bored:

[Go Right Ahead]

Reptile, the comments I wrote have all been my personal experience and those of a few selected mates of mine. Please read #91 and #96 carefully and you will see I refer to a FEWand SOME SA BOYSmeaning not all. I have met very few who are the opposite and it is a fresh breath of air, however I still stand by my views about mojority of those I have met. Im sorry mate but when you are exposed and have experienced this type of behaviour over and over again, you do begin to form opinions of certain demographics. I always take people on their own merit, I dont like to judge from the beginning hence why I said "FEW and SOME SA BOYS".
Point been, Skyvan's lady for example has her own opinion of Aussies. I dont blame her for thinking like that, there are some anal and arrogant aussies around, but i can say is that its a very few amongst the majority.

Q4NVS - As in the above paragraph, read my post carefully, i never "all whites from SA were racist", but i did say in #96 some of the boys i met. :ugh:

My hat off to reptile in your post #99, second paragraph pretty much nails everything i have been trying to say. My experienced has been almost exactly that and i will add its not just those who left long time ago during the political changeover, i have also met numerous newcomers who share the same view. However i will say it again not all white SA are racists, as Solid Rust Twotter mentioned only takes a few to cement the myth.:ok:

777contrail is right this has become a mud slinging contest, I feel we should get back to the thread at hand. I have said enough in my earlier posts about J* and the why and why nots!!!!!

[Go Right Ahead]

Reptile, the comments I wrote have all been my personal experience and those of a few selected mates of mine. Please read #91 and #96 carefully and you will see I refer to a FEW and SOME SA BOYS meaning not all. I have met very few who are the opposite and it is a fresh breath of air, however I still stand by my views about mojority of those I have met. Im sorry mate but when you are exposed and have experienced this type of behaviour over and over again, you do begin to form opinions of certain demographics. I always take people on their own merit, I dont like to judge from the beginning hence why I said "FEW and SOME SA BOYS".
Point been, Skyvan's lady for example has her own opinion of Aussies. I dont blame her for thinking like that, there are some anal and arrogant aussies around, but i can say is that its a very few amongst the majority.

Q4NVS - As in the above paragraph, read my post carefully, i never "all whites from SA were racist", but i did say in #96 some of the boys i met. :ugh:

My hat off to reptile in your post #99, second paragraph pretty much nails everything i have been trying to say. My experienced has been almost exactly that and i will add its not just those who left long time ago during the political changeover, i have also met numerous newcomers who share the same view. However i will say it again not all white SA are racists, as Solid Rust Twotter mentioned only takes a few to cement the myth.:ok:

777contrail is right this has become a mud slinging contest, I feel we should get back to the thread at hand. I have said enough in my earlier posts about J* and the why and why nots!!!!!

[grant_737]

Originally Posted by 777Contrail
Well Grant737, are you on your way to the airport yet?

:ok: Might need a bus to pick everyone up !

[MAX]

So with the conversion to the Aussie license aside...

How long did J* say the visa would take to come through?

You might find your beer is warm by the time you get there.

MAX:cool:

[james ozzie]

A pity about the stereotyping & mudslinging on this thread.

On a more practical note I suggest anyone who takes up an Australian 457 visa gets a full understanding of his/her obligations. If I recall correctly, this visa is easily granted but EXTREMELY difficult to convert into permanent residency/citizenship. That means it is an easy quick fix for employers who need certain skills in a hurry but gives very limited opportunity for the would be migrant, who will get booted out after the visa expiry period with no chance of a further visa.

But there are experts out there who know about the detail.

[whykikamoocow]

Good luck!

You will have your answer shortly ;) Hopefully see you in Oz.

[UncleJack]

Grant 737!

Also waiting can I get a lift in the bus too. Please

[jetstarjunkie]

Dear Grant 737, 777 Contrail, UncleJack and any other SAFA’s needing a ride.

We’ll be waiting to collect you from the airport.

Gondwalla would love to have been there but he’s hard at work studying for his C150 technical. Good luck you RIPPER :ok:


It appears the ball is ROLLING! A number of my mate’s references have been contacted and my money is on them having answers by the end of next week.

Welcome boys, we look forward to driving A320’s with you and enjoying our beautiful coastlines.



Grant 737 (Best make it A320) we’ve done a little homework and be WARNED stay away from our ladies. In Australia if they are spoken for they are spoken for := Just ask Chopper, by the way you related?

Your Visa’s should take 4-5 months and by that time you’re expected to have an Oz ATPL and A320 rating.


Kick it in the teeth :}

[whykikamoocow]

Jeststarjunkie,

That would be marvellous thank you!

Perhaps a bus NOT taxi would be a better idea. Going to be FANTASTIC never seeing them again :ugh:


See you there; my reference was contacted last week. Shouldn’t be long now…

[trubru]

Any space for me in the Venter?:}

[grant_737]

Jeststarjunkie,

All rumors :O :E :ok:

When everyone gets over we can have a PPRuNe shrimp BBQ at my place and Gondwalla can come too. Well if his Mom lets him hang out with the Big Boys.:ooh:

Grant_737(soon 2b A320)

[Capt Megathrust]

To all the J* jokkies, present and future!

I am so excited about your enthusiasm that I have applied for a job too, and have it on good authority that the airline requires people who have C150, DC 3 and widebody Let 410 experience:hmm: As I have vast experiece on these types I feel confident that I will be accepted, so much so, that I have made arrangements for a kangaroo-drawn cart to be available on my arrival and whisk me off to my grand reception at Jet* head office, so don't worry about keeping the bus for me, I'll catch up with you all.

I am particularly excited about the open invitation to the prawn barbie, now that feels like home.;)