Daily life in DXB

[Lugano]

Hi Folks,

Just a few questions here from a newbie.

I am thinking of pursuing the EK job and wonder about a few things. I have lived overseas for quite a few years but currently am living and flying in the US and am a US national.

How are the basics of daily life in Dubai? Shopping? Telephone/Cell Phone? Cable/Satellite TV? Internet?

I would be going as a single guy and would (if selected) get the single housing which I guess is a 2-bedroom apartment. Are these decent places? Safe? Quiet?

I would love to hear some thoughts on the basics of daily life in Dubai when not working.

Thanks!

[Aussie]

I see ya new here?

While ya wait for anyone replying, try the search function, there is a bit out there on this topic....

[Lugano]

I have done a fair amount of searching and will certainly do more. I do appreciate all opinions.

I have lurked for a quite a while but have never posted.

Thanks!

[ironbutt57]

Lived in Abu Dhabi, and Bahrain, and Michigan before...you especially as a single would enjoy DXB for sure lots to do in most areas..safe yes..not likely to get mugged or carjacked..leave the ice-fishing shack at home:ok:

[Lugano]

What are the basics of life like? Services?

How expensive is telephone service? How about cell phone service? When I did my search I gather that Skype is not available and I figured out that the internet is very restrictive.

I have no doubt that I might like the single life.... :E

But I have also to know about some of the every day things. Are there stores that cater to westerners?

Any thoughts on the things we tend to take for granted in the western world would be appreciated!

[Gulfstreamaviator]

With all services available, water, electricity, and even telephones. But NO skype.

Western shops, include such clasics as McDonnalds, and Spinneys.

The quality of life is what you make of it.

It is a manic city at times, but can be fun.

Just get here, and enjoy, bit sticky in summer, but great most of the year.

[Lugano]

Thanks!

I hope to interview soon and will get a glimpse then what it is like. I have seen much of North America and lived in Europe for 12+ years but have never been to the Middle East.

The roadshow by EK presented it is very much a 'First World' country, but not a 'Western' country, if that makes sense. I do not use these labels in an offensive way, so please understand my meaning without reading anything negative into them.

It'll be interesting to check out.

[MrSoft]

Quick point - my Skype DOES work fine when I'm in Dubai. I think the problem is, the skype website is blocked, so locals can't download the app. in the first place. But if it's already on your laptop when you come in, no problem. Believe me it makes a big big difference to your mobile bill :)

[Macaroon]

If you are single then you will not have to worry about a bored wife, schooling for kids etc. The big issues come when trying to balance your work and being here with the needs of a family. US and Europe are nothing like here, totally different culture with a heavily ingrained class system. UAE nationals at the top, western expats in the middle and Asia/sub continent expats at the bottom. As someone has said this has been done to death on these forums.

If your only real concern is the cost of phones and Internet then it is a no brainer ... come and enjoy the hospitality of the most tolerant Arabic/Muslim country and the biggest, tallest, widest, largest, bestest, most wonderful place on earth ... no wait that's Disneyland isn't it?

Most of what you have in US is here consumer wise, there are bigger malls being built all the time. Cars are cheaper to buy and run, labour is cheap so you needn't ever have to clean your apartment, wash your clothes or iron your laundry whilst you are here if you choose.

Once you get used to the god-awful driving, perpetual road works, manual paper based systems and dealing with the various cultures you'll be fine.

[Lugano]

Internet and phones are not the only things by even a long shot. But they are examples of small things that can be frustrating if they don't work as we expect them too.

I continue to search. But I do appreciate the answers and thoughts.

You are right that I won't have a wife or kids to worry about. It's just me and whether or not I like it. That sure makes it easier.

Most of the things I read about Dubai from pilots tend to be negative. Of course, probably a majority are satisfied and have no reason to whine about their lot in life.

[puff m'call]

Don't be fool by the Emirates "First World" crap, Dubai is nothing more than a third world country getting a "First world Fake over". Don't come here with "rose coloured specs" have your eye's very wide open.

It's not a bad place to live but it's not great by any means. In America and Europe if you live there you're all covered by the same rules and laws, not here buddy, put a foot out of line and you're locked up then deported, while the local gets a slap on the wrist :ugh:

The whole place is one big money making machine for the arabs, that's all it is, "A money go-round" It's getting more expensive by the month and the Emirates pay rise does'nt cover inflation, the layover allowance will only cover room service, so you're out of pocket before you start!
They're so short of accomadation at the moment you may well not get that shiney new apartment you're hoping for, there are some real horror stories going around at the moment about temp accomodation, so be warned. :=

Good luck

[Fart Master]

It's a candy coated Turd.............all sugary on the outside, but take a bite........:uhoh:

[Wiley]

the layover allowance will only cover room servicepuff, are you getting secret extra payments? I would have said "won't" where you've said "will only" in that sentence.

.....

On another point mentioned above about the pecking order of expats in the Sandpit, as I sit in airconditioned comfort in my car, I sometimes find myself behind a truck (admittedly, more often a bus these days) packed to the gunnels with Pakistani or Bangla Deshi workers, (or in the middle of the night, drive past a gaggle of the poor buggers standing on the side of the road waiting for the bus to arrive to take them back to 'rest' during the day in their 'looxuries-filled' barracks).

I've often wondered how much I'll squirm should one day one of those men get himself an education and write a story on what life in Dubai was like for him and his fellow workers as they built the Dubai I'm very comfortably living in.

[harry the cod]

Come on guys, get real.

You mean to tell me you go to the UK for example and need more than £50 - £60 to feed your fat faces over 24 hours. Most hotels offer a good enough discount. Most around 30 -40%, even on the old amber nectar, so unless you're having fillet steak for breaki, lunch and din dins, can't see how you feel hard done by. I'll admit that you can't put it towards the alimony but I always come home with a full tummy!

This Company ain't perfect but be realistic.

Harry

[Lugano]

Well, at my own airline in the US we are paid $1.50 Per Diem while away from base. $36 per day. I guess it adds up and it is tax free, but it's still not much. Plus there are no crew meals at my carrier.

For some the deal is maybe rotten, but for others it might not be all bad.

[LHR Rain]

If you are married with kids forget about coming to Dubai. Costs for your wife and schooling for your kids will be 5X the costs as in the states. Your phone calls which because of the local monopoly blocking tactics are over 60 cents a min overseas. Don't listen to the pack, Sykpe is blocked unless you do some fancy stuff to your computer so plan on spending big bucks on your phone bill.
My advice is you have a job in the states, stay there and enjoy all the offerings. Rememeber no matter what EK tells you it is a 3rd world police state. You have no rights and your sole being in Dubai is to make the ruling family money and you won't make as much money as you would in the states. You might make more money but you won't save as much as you think either. Think long and hard about joining and get all the information you can to make an informed decision.

[Wizofoz]

If you are married with kids forget about coming to Dubai.
Here with Wife and two school age kids, and very happy thankyou.

Costs for your wife and schooling for your kids will be 5X the costs as in the states.

Can't comment on the States but, even with high inflation, cost of living is still less than Europe, and Schooling is paid almost entirely by the company.

Don't listen to the pack, Sykpe is blocked unless you do some fancy stuff to your computer

So LHR knows more than everyone else? Skype is blocked, but there are simple "ways" (so I'm told!!) around it. Additionally, if you have people you regularly call (parents, siblings etc.) there are dozens of computer to computer VOIPs that are available and legal.

you won't make as much money as you would in the states. You might make more money

Err...Which? Obviously compare the net salary here to there,Bear in mind rent/medical/utilities will be paid for,take your own circumstances into account, and, as LHR wisely said, make an informed decistion.
From what I've seen single guys have a pretty good time here.

[Lugano]

I appreciate all comments, good and not so good. Anyway, I don't have a wife or kids so that's not an issue. However, I do have family in the US and so I like to keep in touch with them by phone. I do spend a lot of time online and on the phone and so they are not entirely trivial issues.

Seems like it could be decent since I don't need to worry about a wife or kids.

A couple of aquaintances seem to like what they have seen so far. We'll see.

BTW, the US job market is not great. Yeah, folks are getting hired but at truly pathetic salaries. First year pay at the majors is about $40K/year or less. And working in the US at the airlines has turned into a pretty miserable experience as well.

Anyway, there are good points and bad points to every company and every country and that will never change.

[puff m'call]

Yes Wiley, only some places are covered by the poor allowence. Like DAC.

Sorry Harry I but I like to eat in a resturant and not in my room for dinner, try having a three course meal (not unreasonable) and a glass of wine and you will find yourself very much out of pocket!

Just done it in SYD and even with the dicount it's very short of enough.

[LHR Rain]

So the question is just who is Wizo getting paid by. Are you under orders to refute every statement in the quickest of time? AAR or TC order you to do this or do you feel that you have to "protect the company".
Now on to the truth...
If Lugano had kids it would cost him three months salary to educate two of his kids out of his pocket. Now that is a fact.
If he wants to eat out for dinner it would be more expensive than any city in the US. Fact and that includes NY or SFO.
There is ways around the phone company but why do we have to do such things to our computer. Other than living in a 3rd world police state there is no reason to block anything on the computer.
Why would you leave the US and come to the sandbox?

[Wizofoz]

Are you under orders to refute every statement in the quickest of time?

On leave and not going away for a few days, so a little bored, and I choose to refute information which is bollocks.


If Lugano had kids it would cost him three months salary to educate two of his kids out of his pocket. Now that is a fact.


No, that's bollocks. My kids go to DESS, which was our first choice (along with JESS) as it is an excellent school. They charge 25500 per year per child. I pay 10% of 15500 each (read your contract!), which is to say 3100 dhs a year- around three DAYS salary, not three months! There are more expensive schools (I believe Rexton is about 40k for primary) and if you want to send kids there, you pay for it (though for two the excess would still be more like one months salary). So, what would you be paying for a comparable school in the UK?

If he wants to eat out for dinner it would be more expensive than any city in the US. Fact and that includes NY or SFO.


Had a great meal at the Automatic for 35Dhs a head. Try THAT in NY. 5 Star resturants have 5 star prices, same as everywhere.

Why would you leave the US and come to the sandbox?

Did you miss the bit about 40k for a MAJOR? regional guys are earning around 25 as FOS and TOPPING OUT at 50k for Captains! Regional FOs in the US qualify for foodstamps!!

LHR, this place is DEFINATLEY not for everyone. For many coming was a big mistake (seems like you fall into THAT catagory!). People making the decision on whether to come or not deserve accurate information from people who have a variety of points of view. PPRUNE is becoming less and less usful for this as anyone who dare say anything positive or correct blatently inaccurate information is shot down in flames as a management stooge. How about we agree to dis-agree, and you accept there are more than one view on being here?

[middlepath]

wizofo

:)

thanks for all the informations, could you kindly give bit in detail how the meal allowence or perdiem works with EK. Is the allowence enough to cove meals while on lay over, amount in AED.
Cheers, Merry X-mas
MP

[LHR Rain]

There is no information that is bullocks.
If Lugano is an American and did have kids ASD, DAA, AIS would all be anywhere from 55,000 AED to 65,000 AED per year per child. At the young age EK only pays 32,000 AED read your contract. That is about 30,000/child you would have to pay and with two kids that is about 3 months salary. I know all about the British schools thank you.
I would not consider the Automatic a 5 star resturant but that is about the extent an EK pilot can afford to dine at. As you say most 5 star resturants are the same price everywhere so that proves my point exactly. In other countries you get paid more so you can afford the higher ended items the 1st world offers.
I agree that there are more than one view point but I want to get the word out that EK so cleverly does not tell an applicant. I have not lied in any posts and I take offence when I point out the obvious which is called bullocks.

[Watchdog]

middlepath,
overnight allowances are paid in cash in the local currency at the hotel reception. They will cover your costs of eating fine at that hotel or if you step out to the local food places (most destinations), you will have some extra play money. I rarely eat at the hotels, preferring to sample the authenticity of local food, and in doing so have some coin left to bring some nice bottles of red home to Dubai. The majority of cabin crew BYO food and save the money or spend it shopping.
LHR rain,
from my experience, in Dubai, like Singapore, if you want to dine out like a tourist, you will be paying tourist prices for your experience. If you are steet smart you will pay less than many many modern cities for a good 'nose bag full'.

[Wizofoz]

I have not lied in any posts and I take offence when I point out the obvious which is called bullocks.

Well, lets test that shall we?

DAA charge 55 944/yr for grades 1 and up. After grade 6 the company contrubution tops out at 50k, so the shortfall would be just over 5. So IF he had two kids between grades 1 and 6 simultaniously, he would be up for 23944 each, for the couple of years until one went to secondary school. So IF this was the senerio, and IF he was an FO the entire time, and IF he only earned base salary (so I guess he isn't flying for three years), he would indeed be up for slightly over two months salary for a maximum of three years, so lets round that up to three months shall we?

No you didn't lie.

Neither did Tony Blair.

What you did do was look for the absolute worst case senario and paint it as the norm.

[harry the cod]

Wizo

You only have to look at LHR's past posts to realise he's one of the 'grumpy boys'.

We had a meal at Ashers recently, probably one of the top Indians in Dubai. After the 30% EPC, we paid 595 dhs for four. That's for 3 starters, 4 rubys, breads, rice and 10 kingfishers. That's £20 each. I've just come back from NY and paid that for a pizza and 2 cokes!

If you want wine everywhere you go sure it can add up but, food expensive? Nah, it ain't the food that is expensive.

Harry

[LHR Rain]

I was simply pointing out to the American who would send his kids to the American school how much it would cost him. Now I noticed that you picked out the lowest priced American school. Why did you not pick ASD which is 65,000 with a price rise to come next year like most schools in Dubai will do. I will bet you however much you would care to lose that the price hike next year from all the schools will be way more than EK raises it allowances. So we will all be further behind again. More next year than this year. Also you failed to metion in your calculations that EK only pays 90% after the first 10,000 or 15,000 so I am closer than you in the three months estimate.
This is a good thread for you and if you take this into CC or TCAS and show them your hard work I am sure that they will make you a LTC or even a TRI. You are well on your way to a mangement stoge.
We will get the word out about EK and Dubai.

[Wizofoz]

PPRUNE is becoming less and less useful for this as anyone who dares say anything positive or correct blatently inaccurate information is shot down in flames as a management stooge.

This is a good thread for you and if you take this into CC or TCAS and show them your hard work I am sure that they will make you a LTC or even a TRI. You are well on your way to a mangement stoge.


Q.E.D

Ashers...Awsome food!

[LHR Rain]

Where is the balently inaccurate information and who made you Pope of this dump? You did not comment on the school figures because you were the perverer of inaacurate information. If I bothered to check I am sure you have other inaccurate information telling other would be unkowing applicanats how great it is at Dubai. Inaccurate indeed.

[mensaboy]

So what if LHR is ''one of the grumpy boys'' as you put it? Is this another case of shoot the messenger? Although your attempts at giving school price comparisons suggests you believe in your message and simply do not agree with him. I would be more inclined to take your side had you not stooped to name calling.
I am one of the happy boys but I completely understand LHR's viewpoint.
It just goes to show that this place is great for some and terrible for others. Many factors contribute to this but I have found from experience that these factors are not related to personality but more related to things such as family circumstances, luck wrt upgrades or accomodations and other important factors beyond our control, and very often previous job experiences.
I too have sunk to name calling when I believed that someone had an alterior motive behind their posts. And yes, I have been wrong at times and still feel ashamed at jumping to conclusions. I am the first person to rip into someone who gives a false impression of the 'wonderfulness' of Dubai because I think that might lead people to make decisions that they might regret. On the contrary, when someone portrays Dubai or EK in a bad light, although I may disagree, I don't find that as reprehensible.
I think that at times many of us take out our frustrations on this forum and sometimes it is not exactly accurate. But there are also the vocal few who deliberately mislead readers with the intent....... at least I believe........ of securing their own future here without regard for the well being of those they are misleading. Capt A was a classic example of this but there are many other more subtle examples.
This place and this job can be great for many people. It is a helluva lot better than anything I have been used to in the past...... but beware. Everyone single person who reads these forums to glean information should come to Dubai with their eyes wide open. It can also be a hell for some people who come here.

[Wizofoz]

Where is the balently inaccurate information

Costs for your wife and schooling for your kids will be 5X the costs as in the states.

you won't make as much money as you would in the states.

If he wants to eat out for dinner it would be more expensive than any city in the US. Fact and that includes NY or SFO.


Also you failed to metion in your calculations that EK only pays 90% after the first 10,000

Up to the limit of 32K primary and 50k secondary, so the shortfall I calculated is accurate.

Mensa, you might note it wasn't me calling anyone a name, but copped "Management stoge (sic)" and "Pope" for my trouble.

You've got it in one you say it suits some and not others, and I said as much up front. As such it is important that points for and against be properly and accuratly portrayed to try and help people make an informed decision. When someone flys into a rant reeling off stupid and inaccurate figures, however, I think it only fitting the record be set straight.

[Lugano]

Since I don't have kids the cost of schooling them is a non-starter for me. I could not care less about that issue for myself. I am sorry it doesn't seem to work for everyone, but that could be because not everyone did all the possible research.

That's what I am trying to do - get as many facts and opinions as I can.

In any case, I am glad to see all sides of it, warts and all. Just try to keep it somewhat civil.... :cool:

[mensaboy]

Point taken Wizo.

[LHR Rain]

So I will ask again wizo where is the bad info? Schools are free in the states and even private schools are considerably cheaper there up to 5X. Not bullocks.
It is cheaper to eat out in the states than Dubai. You notice the expample at Ashers had a 35% discount and still was expensive. Not bullocks.
So where is the inaccurate information?
Yes I called you a management stooge because it seems very clearly to me and others that is the career path you would like. I guess I could be wrong on THAT account.

[Wizofoz]

Oh dear oh dear Lhr,

You really do like to be able to fly off the handle, have a big rant, and not have anyone question you.

Ok....

IF people have a certain number of kids of a certain age and choose to take them from the crumbling free US system and put them in some of the most expensive in Dubai, it COULD concievably be 5 times what they paid in the states, and could even be up to three months wages for a couple of years. This totally justifies your blanket statement that it WILL cost EVERYONE this much.

Eating at an expensive restaurant in Dubai is more expensive that eating in a cheap reataurant in New York. This justifies your statment implying it is hidiously expensive to eat in Dubai and that there are no resnobley priced eateries here.

Anyone who expresses any point of view other than complete missery wants to be the next chief pilot.

Happy?

And I take it you are one of the many who insist that it's better everywhere else, but aren't going anywhere?

Feel free to have the last word, you seem to need it.

[bushbolox]

wizofoz,
What does "resnobley" mean?. Is it rude? Sounds rude.:ok:

[middlepath]

Watchdog

Thanks for the info.
Merry Christmas and Happy New year.
MP:ok:

[watertheflowers]

Goodness me Oz, you have been busy whilst I've been out and congratulations are certainly due on the big 1500 (although of course that doesn't include your alter-ego Queegs postings). But once again you seem to be getting a bit out of hand, as well as wasting away your annual leave.

So, in the interests of transparent reporting it should be said that the opinions of a Direct Entry Captain who has been at Emirates little more than 12 months are unlikely to represent the general mood at EK, particularly when that DEC is a homesick Ozmate employed until recently by a UK LoCost and now happily finding himself in the left seat of a widebody and 8 hours closer to home. Although in fairness some of the negative stuff found here is also unrepresentative.

And Oz, I'm sure that many of your new colleagues, particularly those enduring an extended stay in the right seat due to Emirates DEC program, find your regular commentaries on this forum lacking in sensitivity and consideration, much as I do.

You play the role of sage, but I would describe you as a stooge or a spiv.

I don't blame you for grabbing the DEC opportunity, I do blame you for crowing about your supposed good fortune on PPRuNe.


Merry Xmas to you Oz.


Oh, and "resnobley" presumably comes from the same place as "concievably", "DEFINATLEY", "statment", "hidiously", "missery" etc ad nauseam. The product of a careless mind and/or a backyard education.

[Wizofoz]

What does "resnobley" mean?.

Hi Bushy! It means I can't get the spell checker working on my new computer!!

WTF Where have you been? I've been daring to express an opinion (actually just state a few facts)for DAYS now, without you jumping on to (again!!) point out that I'm not entitled to one! Sharpen up man!!

Just what is the qualifying period before I know whether I know anything or not?

Seasons greetings to you and yours!

[watertheflowers]

Good comeback Oz, quite refreshing considering the profanities that you've PMd me in the past.

Opinion? Three to five years as an F/O with Emirates should see you qualified for one rather than your one year as a DEC.

[Gulf News]

All this bitterness in reply to some wannabe who asked what daily life in Dubai is like. My answer to him is "not too bad but you sure will meet and work with some strange folks" But I guess you have figured that already having followed the thread.

[Lugano]

Yeah, I noticed the cat fight and oddities of personality. But the industry wouldn't be complete without these folk. Believe me, I am one of them at my own company!

Found out some good info along the way. I hope to complete my application this weekend. Been busy flying/on duty for between 10-15 hours per day for the past 5 days with 3-5 legs per day. Looking forward to the same amount of time one with just a few legs per trip. So I'll get it done now that I have 3 days off.

Anyway, 'paying my dues' as some would say. US East Coast flying is as tough as it gets I think.

[ironbutt57]

Yeah you'd find the flying easier...during my tour of duty with Simmons Airlines, I think I did more hand-flown ILS to minimums in a week, than I've done 16yrs in the Gulf....this includes monsoon season in India as well...

[Andu]

US East Coast flying is as tough as it gets I think.You may be right, Lugano. However, we'll all be interested to hear if you still think so one or two years after you've been with EK.

[Lugano]

I'll be curious too. I have no doubts that each environment and company has it's own unique challenges. I flew in Europe for 3 years at LX and used to think that was a job. It was my first flying job. Then I got a job in the US and learned what work really is. The flying in Europe was a cakewalk in comparison and when my buddies there would whine about how hard their days were I could only grin to myself knowing how easy they have it.

I am sure that EK has its own challenges though. No doubt about that. I am sure that they expect everyone to earn their salary. And no, I am not being cynical.

[gl69]

OZ you are a #$%$#@& DEC? You have no right to point how great it is here when you jumped the senority list. Try hanging out in the right seat for over 4 years and have yahoos like you come and sit in the left seat after never been in a widbody. Know your place!

[BYMONEK]

LHR

I'm with Harry on this apart from one major difference. The curry at the 'Karachi Restaurant' in Satwa might not be up to Ashers speck but is considerably cheaper at around £3 for a blow out. No beers and no discount but beats weight watchers in the 3 day sprint to a 3kg loss!

Seriously, you can't think that £20 is expensive for a top curry and couple of beers can you?

[harry the cod]

gl69

Tell me, these 'widbody' aircraft, are they a new generation of Aircraft? :E

Harry

[Wizofoz]

gld,
Just FYI I did 6 years as a "Widbody" FO and then another 11 as a jet Captain before coming here. I COMPLETELY understand why FOs don't like the DEC program, but that doesn't mean I know nothing about the aviation industry, or that I can't compare what else is available (Of which I have more experience than you) with what is available here.

[MTOW]

A 'widbody' is slightly larger in girth than a 'widdlebody'.

[Guns-A-GoGo]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to join in this conversation. I don't have any reservations about the work, country, living, money,............I do have many questions about my wife though. I know they are discuss, at length, on other threads but they get sidetracked easily.

What is the situation with the living conditions. Specifically, is there a whole flock of the airlines families living in the same area. Will my wife be around other wifes? Will she have the same type of friendships that would be found in a military compound in Germany or Japan?

This is probably the biggest one of them all. I am looking to work there for 5 to 10 years, put away enough to push my current retirement plan over the edge. It sounds like this is possible with a 3-5 year upgrade.

Is there a non rev capability if she wanted to return to the states 3 times a year? Is it SA or do we have to buy a ticket?

What about dependants? I have children, OK not age wise, that range from 25 to 18 and would be curious about them visiting. Is there a deal to allow them to fly SA or at a reduced rate?

I am just like many others, I am curious and very serious about coming to work there. I appreciate all offers of info.

thanks

Guns-A-GoGo

[Guns-A-GoGo]

Does EK pay you in local currency and than you convert to the currency of your home country? How does it work? Do most expats keep their savings in Dubai Banks or send it back home? How user friendly are the local banks? Are wire transfers to the States$$$ ?

[mensaboy]

Paid in dirhams. Advisable not to keep all your money in local banks, just because you never know what might happen in the future. Banks are terrible here, even if they are branches of international banks such as HSBC. You will probably meet with intense frustration when dealing with banks although in the end, things do get done. Money transfers are easy but expensive.
The problem with banks is the system and the people one has to deal with in order to get the simplest thing done. My advice is to get an account manager who appears competent, and make use of his personal mobile and landline number whenever you end up dealing with the average clerk whose standard response is....... ''oh not possible sir''. I hear of some horror story on a weekly basis of how a bank has screwed around someone...... which usually takes about 2 months to clear up.
I can't help but be left with the impression that you have no idea what it is like in Dubai. It is very modern on the surface but still in the dark ages when it comes to many things.

[Lugano]

Well, the fact that we don't know how things are is exactly why we are asking questions. Unfortunately, I can take neither the time nor the money for a week in Dubai to research on my own. The first trip I take there is likely to be for the interview.

Since working with the local banks is difficult, is there any way around this? How about having deposits to a Swiss bank? Maybe a dumb question, but what else can be done?

[Wiley]

Wire transfers to the US relatively seamless. Each TT will cost your around USD 30.00 (100 Dits). The banks will set up a standing transfer with no problem at all. Trap for young players if you ever do a TT - there's frequently another charge at the other end - and the bank there, (and sometimes the UAE bank as well, unless you take great care in noting that charges should be taken from your account and not the remittance) take their cut from the amount you send, so the person you're sending the money to gets only the amount you sent less the bank charges, which can be embarrassing if it's a mortgage or alimony payment you're making.

The major question you should be considering is: will you have enough readies each month to make a standing transfer to the US? Possible if you're coming as a DEC, or, if as an FO, you don't have a family to support here, but most FOs would say they don't have a lot left over after covering day to day life.

The average married with two kids EK FO's lament is something along these lines: "Why is there so much month left at the end of the money?"

[correamd11]

Lugano,

Don't worry about money transfers. You won't need them. In the end of the month there is nothing to be transferred...:eek:

[Raise or Fold]

In other threads I have researched on, there seems to be alot of talk about how little money is left over at the end of the month.
Is food really that much more expensive there?
Phone and internet?
Auto insurance?
What are some of the other expenses that come up in Dubai?


Can anyone tell me about sending money back to the US and how your taxes work?
It seems to me that you should be able send some pretty good money back every now and then.


Could any of the current pilots post a monthly schedule? just want to see a typical good, and bad month.

Thanks for the replys

[GMDS]

No need to give you a detailed paycheck. Just consider two scenarios:


You have some property at home, as investment towards retirement, it’s rented out to a small profit, however you still have a annual mortgage to pay it off. As with what’s left end of the month (with the actual EK conditions) you will have very little to send back home, so this starts being a problem. I have stated it before, in 2009 you will start losing money, because with inflation and currency discrepancies, your little profit at home will no longer suffice to pay the mortgage.
You have no ties to home. Therefore you have to build up a pension plan around here. With the EK plan outcome you might consider retirement in a third world country only. You will have to add in a lot to cover life back home, if home is anything liveable on this planet. With what is left end of the month, there is very little to build up a decent pension. Again my prediction: With the actual EK conditions (including the average increments throughout the last years) this will erode in 2009, meaning there will be not enough left to be put aside to build up anything close to the above.
This leaves EK as a stepping stone only for guys needing a quick upgrade, or for DEC’s from ugly places, or already retired at home. You will definitely need a escape plan within 5 to 7 years. Not only for financial reasons, but the missus will be utterly fed up by then. If your kids approach 16, they will also need a decent education elsewhere, as for the moment higher grades and university is not adequately available here.

GMDS

[Raise or Fold]

Do you have a cost of living increase every year? I understand that inflation is very high in Dubai, but it just seems that people are living a very glamerous life, or are just bad with money.

I was thinking of coming to Dubai for around 7 years or so, come back to the states and do something else, other than flying. Hoping to have a nice little nest egg to live on for a while.

Still hoping to see if anyone can post a schedule for the month on here.

This is what mine kind of looks like.

* * * * XNA DEN * * * MSN YWG ELP DEN * * * * PSC LNK YWG DEN * * MKE GRB RFD DEN * *

the * are days off credit for the month is 75 hours, 37 legs for the month.

This is what the regionals are doing here in the US.

[GMDS]

Glamorous life ... what do you mean by that??
With the missus and kids you're looking at a average of 3-4 bedroom villa, something like 3400sqft bua. You can afford a 4x4SUV, as a skipper a second car for her. If you go for a Golf memberships, you're looking at around 7000US pa if you are lucky enough to find one. With a second flight for the whole family (after your free annual leave) and some desert trips or to Oman, some gear for the kids and the usual outings and barbies, you're slowly hitting the limit of a FO salary if you want to put something aside. As a skipper it looks a little better, but the kids are growing aswell ...... is that glamorous??

Cost of living increase ... just read the papers (Gulfnews online). Inflation at 9.3% (excluding rents!!!!), rent increase around 20% (2006-2007), house prices around 25%. Schooling around 10-40%. etc.

No one will publish a roster, it'too easy for the bosses to trace the messengers. And they don't like the truth.

EK is still the best deal in the ME, don't get me wrong. But i am not comparing with the crap in the region, i am assessing my situation in respect of now and after. I would really like to stay a little longer, but i will not subsidise this stay because the greedy owners post record profits one after the other and leave us with less every year. And this simply because they can.

[Lugano]

I still wonder where the money goes. If you live in company paid housing and are paid tax-free salary it would seem like there really ought to be a fair amount left. I am single so don't have to worry about the Missus or the kids' education.

From what I have learned here and from others it doesn't sound like a bad place.

All I have to do at this point to get the ball rolling is to click "Submit Application" on the form. It's all filled out. The ONLY reason I am hesitant is that I have a very good internal contact at a US major where I would work harder, fly less nice equipment and have less of a future career outlook.

But I would be closer to home. And that is the only hesitation.

[Raise or Fold]

I was told the you and the family get the one annual leave pass, and unlimited standby travel. Is that not true? I understand the flights are pretty full, but hey, why not try. My wife was hoping to go home a few times a year.

I guess you can't show your schedule, just wondering what the average days off are? How many hours you fly in a month? Maybe in your senior bid months compared to the junior ones.

The road show folks said that most of the trips are 3 day trips. One long leg out, 24 hours or so off, one leg back. There were also the ULH trips that were up to 9 days.

Just trying to get a feel for it is like. I have read most of these thread here, and some are pretty old. Thanks for any info. I think there are alot of people thinking about coming to Dubai.

Thanks, Raise or Fold

[FlyingCroc]

To fly from Dubai to the US takes 15 hours, not counting connections and travel to your home. A killer. Yes once a year, maybe twice more is killing. Forget your life in the US and settle in Dubai.
There is no senior or junior, the schedules are the same for all, sometimes good, sometimes bad. 3-4 days duty a few days off, no chance to commute.

[Schnowzer]

Been at EK now for 8 years and these arguments still make me smile. I have been the vociferous defender of all that is right about EK, moved to the pragmatist but feel I may be about to become the cynic. I have sat there with crusty old Captains that shout all the time but fear I may slowly be becoming one.

When you first arrive, all you can see are the 5 star hotels, after about 3 years you can just see the sand in between. You get your command and things brighten up and then after another couple of years, you wonder how you can possibly spend the next 20 years in the sandpit and start digging a tunnel.

When I was at home all I wanted was a nice house to call my own, a couple of hols/year, a reasonable car and a bit of disposable income. On the family/friends front I wanted to see my mates reasonably often and the family as and when.

In Dubai, you can have a house but they all cost an arm and a leg. Right now you won't get much change out of $1.2m for a 4 bedroom family home. Guys then quote 'but you get free accommodation' and that is true. For me I struggle to imagine enjoying living in company accomodation except for financial reasons. I wouldn't live in company accom anywhere else in the world for all the tea in China. I still remember arriving and trying to turn the sand pit of the villa into grass.

Holidays are definitely doable but it is a struggle to get leave with your family and it is a struggle to get on flights. I realised that last year when I actually went on a summer holiday with my kids for the first time in 3 years. Most times I travel with the family I go confirmed to save the hassle but the tickets go so rapidly that unless you have a 4 month lead time getting them can be difficult. Standby works as an individual but not so well as a family. EK have a clever little trick where you get all the leave you want when you arrive but then it starts to go south.

Car's are cheaper for sure and I now have the same one I had in europe for $10,000 less. But... I don't get to see my mates or family that much, not a snag for me but eats away at the missus particularly when the rellys start poppoing their clogs.

As to disposable income, you can save a hell of a lot. Or you can choose where you live, travel to see the family, call home, go out occasionally, play golf occasionally etc etc. Not both! It is a choice between fiscal or more esoteric well being. The exchange rate has sucked 30% of my saving power since I arrived.

For guys coming in the future, you will have the same sort of choice. Some will be happy, particularly those that grade everything by the amount of cash they can save without regard to having a life. The guys that bought property in the past got in before the boom so prepare to pay even more for a life if it doesn't solely revolve around money.

I would have sworn I'd have been here for life when I joined. I went downhill as the command got delayed then uphill when promoted. For me that is the top of the ski slope and it is a hell of a long way down from there.

Schnowzer

[GMDS]

Chippin' in Schnowzer.

Just to add some recent info:
In todays GulfNews the Governor of the United Arab Emirates Central Bank said "We have come to the conclusion, that the inflation problem does not lie with the peg against the US dollar". - Now i know that the gag writers in Hollywood are on strike, but with stuff like that they are not missed! That's the way we are "lead" around here ... by morons.
Conclusion: Inflation + x-ch rates will remain a huge problem in the mid term.

Additional problem for property owners in spe:
The rent commitee will introduce minimum and maximum rents per location. One of their local talent will show up and evaluate your house .... You might end up buying property you will not be able to rent out to cover the mortgage. And this because unlike in the civilised world, where saving rates and mortgage rates fluctuate more or less conjunctively, here the savings rate went down with the $ lead rent-rate (almost 2% to ~3.5%), HOWEVER the mortgage rate didn't move a sepc (~7%). Logically as there is no competition to the few lenders, and guess who they are....
Conclusion: Topping up the dwindling salary with investment in property will be a exercise at the mercy of mortgage lenders and new the rent commitee. Do you trust them?

Again, it's not bad around here, compared to down the road. But i am trying to make not only the decent living i have right now, undoubtedly, but i am looking ahead and see a not so bright retirement, if things stay as they are. On the other hand i'd like to stay here, at least for the mid term. That is my dilemma and that is why i am following events as close as my schedule allows. For the very close future it still works, but the trend shows, that by mid 2009 some of us (easy to see where we're from) will start seeing some "minus" on the spreadsheet. I totally agree that some won't. Guess they will join, but remember: Markets and exchange rates fluctuate in both directions!!

[Elvis26]

Reading all this...made me decide to register and contribute with my little bit...
Life in Dubai is like anywhere else in the world...you will have positive and negative of all sorts...
It is usually how you make it for yourself...I've been here for almost 6 years by now and honestly...loving it...sometimes they're downs as well...but where not?
Internet connection is great...quick, you will fly out of the country so if websites are blocked here...take your laptop with you and download anything you like outside....I call my family back home through net...costs peanuts...easy to establish, even for me who know absolutly nothing about computers.
This place offers you so much to do....it's just up to you to choose what you like...
If you single...you'll love it...stay positive and open minded...you will get to meet people from all over the world...you get the unique chance to learn so much about other nationalities...I am not doing emirates propaganda, of course there will be tough times to deal with...it will be just your attitude how you put up with it.
Yes...cost increased massively last few years...but still easy to handle, depends on what kind of living level you like...they're still people earning 5000aed a month and have a life.
It's a great life experience to come over here...I find it a bit more difficult though to come this time as the town is expanding massively and seem a bit of mess...Just ask people around for info and help when you get over here...everybody seems pretty approachable...it will take you around a year to settle down...but it's great fun...
Stay positive!

[Schnowzer]

Elvis,

This place offers you so much to do....it's just up to you to choose what you like...

In an incredibly limited way. Check out the level of school's sport, open beaches, sporting facilities for adults, local travel etc etc etc. You are right things are different here and we shouldn't expect what we had at home. I have started to realise that with a decent salary in Europe I could do the beach thing, the skiing thing, the golf thing, the culture thing, the gourmet thing, support a team, go to concerts to a level far beyond anything available in DXB. And I won't be filling a sheikh's coffers. If you live in Southern Cal or Florida, stay where you are!!

[Dune]

Elvis26

Welcome to the forum.

Having read your post, I assumed you were cabin crew given your tone, content and outlook. I see your occupation in your personal profile is "smiling pretty"....I guess my intuition was correct?

Absolutely no disrespect intended so forgive me if I seem out of place but young, single cabin crew in Emirates/Dubai have a very, very, very different outlook on life from pilots who generally tend to be older, more conservative in nature, aviation career oriented, established, married (or divorced), with children (or without). As such you will find our "terms of reference" when discussing Dubai/Emirates issues will be considerably different from yours.

No criticism intended; it's nice to see such a happy fellow on the board.

Dune

[revolucionpilot]

you "democracy" exporters better stay home...here middle east..here habibi islamic...Iran very very near why don't you apply to El Al...

[Guns-A-GoGo]

Wow, great to see he is so to the point.

How much for a round of golf?

Guns-A-GoGo

[wingslow]

When your mother or father are on their death bed don't expect any assistance from EK. It's around this time you have to pinch yourself and ask am I really working for an airline... Two flights 24 hours later to the family death bed with two children in tow. Could have been one direct flight but EK would not assist in any way. Happy to drag you and the family to the sand pit but NOT so happy to assist when you really need to get out. Money can't buy time when someone is dying. Take that into consideration when considering EK, as well as inflation, pollution, traffic, schooling etc.:(

[revolucionpilot]

golf...is that sport?

[revolucionpilot]

Interview passed and e-mail from habibi of recruitment tell you can come work...? No yet ha? Oh.. you supertestosteronic yankee pilot...you conquer world...no problem right? Many places you fly..no radar..no habibi controller tell where to go...habibi controller dont speak english may be...because is from Africa no usa.Just dark ocean or ground under ass...no good..no good.stay in your country..better McFish.

[Guns-A-GoGo]

It took me a while to catch on. Your Borat Sagdiyev of Kazakhstani Air. I have heard much about you and your family.

Guns

[Guns-A-GoGo]

Or maybe Rain Man..........

Guns

[revolucionpilot]

You right tovarish Guns

Me Borat...Kazakhstani pilot. Me fly Tu154 for Cubana..very nice!! Russian airoplane..no computatia in cock pit lot circulari instrumentatia cloks
You know sister Svetlana ah?

Dasvidania

[fatigueflyer]

Budget, budget, budget!!! That's a fact of life anywhere. I don't see too many EK pilots or their families begging in the streets of Dubai but on the flipside, I do see many EK families (you soon learn to spot them) hanging out at the usual cafes and beach clubs etc. Flown with many new pilots and many of them have sponsored a helper (as its illegal to cross employ one), got a big 4x4 (a necessary move), fitted out the home with new furniture and that big LCD TV plus cannot wait to buy that new boat or motorbike. Its a pretty safe place, EK provides a place to live, medical, schooling, cheap cars and a job for life , if you want it. As much as I see many downsides to the current Dubai, the salary pays the bills and we just have to learn to budget and get on with it. Those who whinge will never be happy anywhere anyway.

[GMDS]

Budget, budget, budget!!!

I could almost agree with your post, but ... if you are such a great budget manager, you will certainly have detected that at the end of the month leftovers are in decline.
- Now there comes my disagreement. As this is a fact, i do not simply accept it, as you do suggesting to adapt your personal budget.
I "whinge", and i think rightfully so, because the owners and managers improve their balance sheet, as ours declines.
I just think this is not right - as simple as that. If theirs declines, i'm with them, we work together. If it improves i'd like a cut, at least to balance my sheet. This has nothing to do with being a potential whinger wherever i would be. Such a qualification bounces back on the issuer as being very simplistic, to remain polite.

[thefoxandfirkin]

Fatigueflyer,

Sorry but did you just say you want a motorbike....in Dubai...are you sure about that?????????? :\

Mind you the things we have to do to suplement our lifestyle costs these days, like delivering pizza's, LOL :}