Citation X ; what should we order ?

[1xxxxx1]

Hello everybody

We have a C750 on order and would like to get some advice from pilots, cabin crew, mechanics, etc what they would order or recommend and what to avoid and why.

Below a list of what can be chosen. Some additional info from our side.
We plan to fly one CX in Asia for part corporate and part charter probably with a flight attendant. WX weather and related services we can not receive.

Cessna offers more equipment as a SER request but does not give out a complete list of what is possible. It would be great to know what others requested.

Or STC’s that are interesting. Like the new winglets.
OK they are not certified yet.

Optional equipment :

KHF-1050 HF Radio System – Honeywell
One or two systems ?

Runway Awareness and Advisory System (RAAS) – Honeywell
As the CX has no Jepp chart display and like this the own ship position can not be shown
What about the RAAS system around 25k$ extra

LSZ-860 Lightning Sensor System - Honeywell
As said before we are in Asia without WX sat weather and we have a few CB here.
Strike finder 37k$

Meggitt Standby Instrument
Replaces the 3 stand by instruments but some say the Glass Meggitt had reliability issues

External GPS Antenna with Cockpit Outlet (this is possible as SER)
As the CX has no charts display we would like a class 2 EFB with GPS
What are you using, is a yoke mount EFB feasible ?

Electronic Control Unit (ECU)
Secondary ECU for APU 100000$ who ordered this ?

Pulselite 2400 System - Precise Flight (STD)
Pulselite 2401 System With TCAS II Interface - Precise Flight (Exchange)

British Petroleum Turbo Oil 2380
Mobil Jet II
Mobil 254
We have already one jet with Mobil Jet II


Nickel Cadmium Batteries - Marathon (STD) 44 Amp / Hr
Lead Acid Batteries - Concorde (Exchange) 44 Amp / Hr
Servicing a NiCa is more complex but Lead Acid theoretically needs replacement after 12 month. I know an endless discussion !

Door Locks
Cessna fleet with same key, is this nice or brings problems as well. we have already one small tube citation.

Madelec Aero Chart Holder With Light
Can this be replaced with an EFB or better not order?

Monorail Sunvisor (Smoke)
Monorail Sunvisor (Opaque)
Leather Covered Sunvisor

Crew Seat Sheepskin Cover Assembly
Leather or Sheepskin in the hot climate
What do you think about a wet back or sitting on an old rat after some time

Flight Deck Sliding Doors or curtain

Airshow 4000 with Dual DVD / Airshow 4000 Entertainment Package
Any advice on this ? what about the seat monitors


Double Club w/ 8 seats or Three-Place, Belted Couch
Does somebody use the air mattress for sleeping?

Microwave oven or convective

crystal glass ?

LH Fwd Closet
We might change to a 9th seat removing the closet ! for flight attendant, more pax, or as quasi jump seat ,

Inflatable Mattress (Includes up to 2 each at no additional charge) 1000$ for more ?

Any recommendation for the wood Veneer

Stainless Steel Fasteners in all Unsealed Inspection Access Doors ? 12000$
What do the mechanics say about this. It looks nicer!

And for the EFB I might start a new thread! But one question: are there any EFB’s STC as a class 3 system on the market for the CX ? Google does not help


Thanks a lot for any recommendation.

[con-pilot]

Okay, while not real familiar with the X, but have equipped a lot of aircraft to operate internationally here are my recommendations.

"KHF-1050 HF Radio System – Honeywell
One or two systems ?"

Two, very necessary for dispatch reliability.

Runway Awareness and Advisory System (RAAS) – Honeywell
As the CX has no Jepp chart display and like this the own ship position can not be shown
What about the RAAS system around 25k$ extra

Worth the money.

LSZ-860 Lightning Sensor System - Honeywell
As said before we are in Asia without WX sat weather and we have a few CB here.
Strike finder 37k$

A little overpriced, but may save you one day.

Meggitt Standby Instrument
Replaces the 3 stand by instruments but some say the Glass Meggitt had reliability issues

I would have to research this more to give a good answer, sorry.

External GPS Antenna with Cockpit Outlet (this is possible as SER)
As the CX has no charts display we would like a class 2 EFB with GPS
What are you using, is a yoke mount EFB feasible ?

As this can be used for other reasons I would go ahead and add this.

Electronic Control Unit (ECU)
Secondary ECU for APU 100000$ who ordered this ?

Only if you will be operating in areas that you know that there is no air cart available for engine start if the APU ECU fails.

Pulselite 2400 System - Precise Flight (STD)
Pulselite 2401 System With TCAS II Interface - Precise Flight (Exchange)


It is a good system for collision avoidance. Yes

I would go with Mobil Jet II, available everywhere.

Unless operating in extreme cold weather areas go with Lead Acid Batteries - Concorde (Exchange) 44 Amp / Hr.

Door Locks

Yes, change them out.

Madelec Aero Chart Holder With Light
Can this be replaced with an EFB or better not order?

Can be added later if desired, so I would say no.

Monorail Sunvisor (Smoke)
Monorail Sunvisor (Opaque)

Either one, but not leather.

Crew Seat Sheepskin Cover Assembly

Sheepskin always, no matter what type aircraft.

Flight Deck Sliding Doors or curtain

A curtain is less maintenance, however, the wooden sliding doors add more class.

Airshow 4000 with Dual DVD / Airshow 4000 Entertainment Package
Any advice on this ? what about the seat monitors

I would recommend that you explore other entertainment systems, however, in any case go with a package.

Double Club w/ 8 seats or Three-Place, Belted Couch
Does somebody use the air mattress for sleeping?

That really should be left up to the owner of the aircraft.

Microwave oven or convective

In my experience for this type of range aircraft I would strongly recommend the Microwave oven. Most corporate FAs would agree, much more versatile.

crystal glass ?

Why not, go first class. ;)

LH Fwd Closet

Again, a question that the owner needs to be part of.

Inflatable Mattress (Includes up to 2 each at no additional charge) 1000$ for more ?

Yes, they don't take up much room and can come in handy.

Any recommendation for the wood Veneer

Okay, one must have the owner involved in this question. I would recommend a light colored wood, because of the small size of the cabin. Dark colors in small areas tend to close in the space, where as lighter colors tend to expand the visual impression of cabin space.

Stainless Steel Fasteners in all Unsealed Inspection Access Doors ? 12000$
What do the mechanics say about this. It looks nicer!

No doubt about this one, yes.

Guess what, you just got about what I normally charge $50,000.00 USD to clients for free of cost. If I go on it would be like being a pilot for free. ;)

If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me. Hope I helped.

[Dont worry]

Ok !
Here´s my oppinion. Flying on a X.

-HF , You can only talk at one at a time, but I definately agree with dispatch reliability. I would take 2
- Runway Awarness, Never flown with it. Never needed. I would say you can skip it.
- Lightning Sensor, Never had one. Might be helpful
- Stby Instr., Stay with the old system. Looks odd, but works
- Ext GPS Ant. , Why not ?
- 2nd ECU, Safe the money. Not even the airliners have them
- Pulslight, May be helpful someday. I would safe the money
- Eng. Oil, Definately Mobil Jet2
- Batt, Lead Acid
- Door locks, If you like. there´s no need. 1 or 2 keys ??? It´s a if you like feature
- Chart Holder, NO. You dont need them with an EFB
- Sunvisor, NO Leather. Everything else ok.
- Sheepskin, Definately YES.
- Flightdeck Door, I would say so. Gives more privacy in the back
- Airshow, Works fine. Add addidional Subwoofers
- Seat layout, I prefere the Couch. 3 Clubs plus Couch. NO Crewseat opposite of the Entry door,but jumpseat in the left FWD cabinett
- Oven, I would go for convective
- Glass, Let the owner buy his own glass
- LH Closet, As said before
- Mattress, Never ever. Takes way to much space. You will be happy for every inch if you have 5-8 people in the back plus catering
- Wood Veneer, I can send you a picture of a nice interior. No dark wood, Grey seats
- Fasteners, Dont know about this. Should be considered if there is more maintenance costs coming up if you take the standard
- EFB, http://www.adrsoft.com/Electronic_Flight_Bag/EFB_FG-7000T.htm
Works nice and easy

Have fun adding the items and see the outcome.

[formulaben]

Cessna has some upgrades purportedly coming soon...announcements expected in 2008. It's rumored to be newer avionics (Honeywell APEX?) and winglets. I'd definitely try to get in on that if it might meet your timeline. There is also an EVS option worth looking at, depending on your missions.

If you can afford it, definitely get the best entertainment package available. To retrofit it (or the GPS antenna, etc) becomes MUCH MORE expensive.

My 2 cents:

-Lit chart holder is a must have if no yoke mounted EFBs.
-Get opaque monorail, but we also carried Sun Foil covers up front for cruise
-The "flight attendant" seat versus the closet: we used the seat quite often, but if you opt for the couch it may not be needed
-Flightdeck door, for sure (no curtain)
-Stainless Steel...yup.
-EFBs. YES YES YES!!

Not mentioned by you, but make sure you get the LED lighting package/option. Far less maintenance and better reliability. Also, on our airplane the panel mount AOA guage was an option...unreal. Get the AOA guage for use in cruise, otherwise you only get AOA info on approach in the form of a low speed awareness tape on the integrated ASI. Both may be standard equipment by now. They SHOULD be...

Good luck!

[FL470]

I flew a GLF4 with RAAS. Because some voice was constantly talking on the ground (especially on big airports), the system was more a nuissance than helpfull.

Save the money and invest in a good EFB!

Cheers!

[His dudeness]

I´m flying the Sovereign, not the X, but since its almost the same cabin...
we opted for the curtain to get more legroom. Flew another Sov the other day with doors and I´m very pleased to have the extra. (and I´m not tall) So I´d try to sit in one with and in one without.
The Galley area detaches the cockpit from seating anyhow.
I have seen a SOV with a curtain that can go between the seating and the galley - way more privacy for both IMO.
We do have 2 HF´s, pulse lights with TCAS interface and the lighting sensor. Stainless steel also. Looks way better after the first inspection you had and all the paint on the painted screws cracks (and Cessnas paint is bad enough without that...)
We originally opted for the couch, but it is not deep enough to make a comfy sleeper and people sitting there block the passage to the toilet. If someone tall sits there, he might have an issue with his legs and feet - you can really move about and if your feet are to big you have an issue because of the dropped aisle. I would not buy it. Also the seat in front of it becomes none berthable (at least in the Sovereign)
Regarding Oil, I tried to get an educated answer both from Cessna and P&W and all they came up with, was:
they are all certified. So talked to the shop and they said, that there is no difference. We use 2380 because of its availablity, but then we do not have another airplane. Avoiding the possibility of a mixup is a good idea.
So the usual drama here: 5 pilots, 6 opinions. have fun!

[NZ X man]

Howdy

I was lucky enough to fly both the 680, and the 750, and far as your aircraft, this is my opinion. If your operating out of Asia, the runway awareness item is probably something you do not need , usually well marked runways with out the low visiablility problems., The meggit glass standby unit, will save your ass if you lose the good stuff, it makes it so much easier, as compared to the 3 gages. Shades, or bar visors, yes two, both either smoke or the slight green that they offer, not something you cannot see through. The air show/DVD, is a must, the folks in the back will ask you a lot less quiestions, like how much longer, where are we, what is that kind of questions, and I believe it is standerd with the DVD units, it is inter changeable through a master console or by individual seat choice. You want to be able to close off the cockpit, especially at night when you tired or descending, and the folks in the back will have the music , or DVD on speaker with the lights on, which really stuffs off your concentration and night vision. Go for the door, it keeps the noise down from the back. Cessna has an outlet in Singapore and quick access to parts would be available, so maybe go onto the pro- parts program, it will save you money in the long run, and you do not have to keep much of an inventory. As far as the pulse light, it is nice, but another G-Wheez item. Get some extra strobe lights, static wicks, a case of oil and hydrolic oil. The batteries will be important, and oh by the way you will be using the crap out of the APU, so by into their program, (Cessna), for that also. Two HF's will cover you for life. And as you know if you blow a tire on tha bird, you have to,(accourding to Cessna), replace the one next to it.

I would not get to carried away on the cutlery, glasses, etc. and stick to the 8 pax interior, the bed that cessna offers is useless. I agree with the light colored vaneer, it looks a lot better, and hides the finger prints better.

If you were to somehow get hold of some NetJets crew, they operate a large number of those aircraft. And if you can by chance get an opportunity to go to Wichita and pick the bird up, pick the braines of the Cessna demo pilots on what works and what is smoke and mirrors.

If you need pilots, I would like to get on the list.

:)X man