Ignition Keys

[Mr Pax]

I apologize if this question has been asked before but does a large comercial aircraft have door and ignition keys or can anyone just open it up and start it up?
MP

[G-BPED]

I am sure BA have fitted locking wheel nuts to their Airbus Fleet as someone was stealing the beautifull alloy wheels that are supplied as standard.

Pilots were turning up to find their beloved A319/320/321 on bricks and some "Chav" in his Citroen Saxo speeding away :}:):}

[tartare]

...he asked a valid question.
FYI... I haven't flown the 777, but have flown the simulator.
Aside from checklists and montoring temperatures and pressures, actual start-up on this aircraft is a relatively simple affair, using a couple of knobs and switches on the o/head panel. No keys.
By contrast, light aircraft almost all have keys, as do many helicopters.
Latest turbine helicopters such as the EC120 have FADEC (Full authority digital engine control) which among other things greatly simplifies the start-up procedure. I think (and any EC120 rated pilots feel free to correct me) you simply press a `Start' button?
Starting older turbine helicopters can be a very expensive business if not done correctly.
Excess fuel can pool in the engine can and then be lit, creating a `hot' start, which can do tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage in seconds.
Which is why if you are sitting next to a helicopter pilot as they start the aircraft, you will see them focusing very intently on a couple of small gauges that show turbine outlet temperature, and turbine speed. You'll hear a whine and a rapid ticking noise as the starter motor spins the turbine and injectors feed fuel into the can. Then the turbine lights with a `whoosh' and the blades slowly begin to spin. Very cool...

[Newforest]

There is a great thread on this subject earlier in the year which will answer all your questions, but can't find it at the moment!

[Newforest]

Here is the thread to keep you busy and amused!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=278770&highlight=Ignition+keys

[tartare]

Bit of thread drift here, but the other thing that I was reminded by thinking about keys(!) and big jets, was how easy the 777 sim was to fly.
Very docile big jet... instructor pulls one engine out on takeoff... slight yaw and then it just keeps climbing. All done automatically.
Very easy to land... yes, even with a nasty crosswind dialed in.
Sitting right up the sharp end it just wraps around you like a car.
Easy to forget about the 300+ souls and laaaarge amount of airliner behind you.
Now that's bound to get a few bites from grey-haired people with gold rings on their sleeves!!!

[BelArgUSA]

Hola Mr. Pax -
xxx
General aviation airplanes generally have keys.
When I owned an airplane, a Super Cub ex Army, there was no key.
Anybody could steal it.
xxx
No "ignition key" with airliners.
I have a key ingraved "BOEING" (with a part number on the other side).
That is a cockpit door key. Worked on all Boeing airplane cockpit doors
Nowadays, with "reinforced" cockpit doors... that key is a little ridiculous.
xxx
Moonlighting occasionally, flying a Learjet.
They have a key, operating an electric motor on the fuselage door steps.
xxx
Question - are you planning to steal a 737 and fly it away...?
I have a book "How to fly Boeings in 10 lessons" for sale, good condition.
Or would you prefer the edition "Flying for dummies...?"
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[fendant]

Hi Mr. Pax,

if you really want to steal a 737 you need more than just the keys. You will also need the remote garage door opener;).

Happy Holidays
Frank

[chornedsnorkack]

Has there ever been an aircraft which was hijacked solely because the cockpit door, though locked and physically sound, was too easy to unlock?

Any cases?

Whereas there are well over 100 people dead because a cockpit door lock would not open.

Double pilot incapacitation - is there a pilot aboard? There was. The cockpit door is supposed to open if someone rings a bell and neither of the pilots overrides the door opening in 30 seconds - how else could double pilot incapacitation be handled?

Except that it was a code pad. The purser was incapacitated as well - and the purser alone knew the code. 2 pilots and 1 purser incapacitated was enough to doom everyone aboard.

The door eventually did open - when the fuel was exhausting and engines started to flame out, the lock was unpowered. But it is one thing to figure out the way to land a 737 with PPL and quite another thing to figure out the way to do deadstick landing.

So... write down the damn code and place it so that it can be seen. At worst, you have to push the override button every 30 seconds and less.

[llanfairpg]

Its a real pisser when you get all the way out to that 747 at Heathrow and you have left the ignition keys in the crew room, I normally get one of the new cabin crew to go back and fetch them.

But the best one is when i get one of the new girls to refuel the aircraft and ask her if there is any chance I could put it on her credit card as i left mine in the crew room.

[FLCH]

how easy the 777 sim was to fly.

Glad to hear it was easy for you. I was at the local fire station the other day with a friend, we sat around watched TV, drank coffee I was surprised at how easy it was being a fireman.....

[tartare]

Gotcha.
Most things are easy.
Brane theory.
Quantum physics.
There's a lot of people who like to make them appear difficult tho.
No... that's unfair.
I respect you guys who fly a lot heavier metal than me.
I guess what surprised me was I was expecting some kind of massive control lag... or having to compensate to an extraordinary degree for inertia.
What i found amazing was that for a jet that weighs a coupla hundred tonnes, it basically went where you pointed it, and relatively damn quick too. I probably would have had some very sick passengers, and an angry lolly tosser or two down the back!!!
I've flown fast jets, helicopters and many light GA types by the way.
Guess it was only a box on legs after all.
Maybe the real thing is different.
Respect...;)

[Dan Winterland]

When you buy a new Boeing, it does come with keys. These are handed over by Mr Boeing when you give him the cheque at the handover ceremony. However, they are symbolic and don't actually fit any lock on the aircraft.

[Mercenary Pilot]

I normally get one of the new cabin crew to go back and fetch them.

I usually send the new dispatcher for the keys. The new cabin crew are usually too intrigued on how the ACARS can print foreign currency. :E

[llanfairpg]

I was at the local fire station the other day with a friend, we sat around watched TV, drank coffee I was surprised at how easy it was being a fireman.....

There is no time to be sitting around drinking coffee, there are ego's to polish

[FLCH]

Gotcha.

That was it ?? I was hoping for pistols at dawn....something about besmirching ones profession etc etc.... :)

[Skintman]

Mr Pax

I asked a similar question out of curiosity recently on the SLF forum and got an firm slap from the foxy Tightslot for going into security areas. Understandably so.:D

Best not to reveal too much deatil on this subject folks or you risk the "Wrath of Tightslot" and realistically securty is an isuue and best avoided.

Skintman

[tartare]

Sorry FLCH... too old, tired, courteous to get into a scrap;)
Even a good natured one.

Anyway... there's far too many truly angry pilots hangin out here.
I wonder about some of these guys and CRM.
"Errmm Captain, we've just passed through FL19 and the reason our A320 is making that strange noise is cos THE WHEELS ARE STILL DOWN."
Even an FA stuck her head through the door to let him know.
And you know what... he just kept right on climbing.
True incident from my part of the world.

Love all the different names of everyone by the way.
Sooner or later I expect Ron `the Mongoose' Haller to show up.:ok:


I've been piloting DCs and 7s for American Airlines going on 15 years now, and I don't mind telling you, I'm the best there is. The Navy's flight school can only have one "Top Gun," and the same is true in commercial aviation. There are many great pilots at American and the other airlines, but none have the speed, wits, and solid-brass balls that I do. That's right, Capt. Ron "Mongoose" Haller is the Top Gun of airline pilots.
To date, I've captained 2,947 domestic flights, and every single one arrived on time. Weather delays, safety procedures, FAA orders—it takes a hell of a lot more than all that to ground Mongoose, baby.
What's my secret? Nothing fancy, no hocus pocus. I just know my ****—and treat the plane like a beautiful woman.
One time, on a coast-to-coast, Engine Three went out over the Rockies. According to procedure, I'm supposed to radio a distress and land at the nearest airport. But I said to hell with that: Call me a wild card, a loose cannon, but Mongoose has never been one who slavishly follows "proper procedure." Besides, I've got 241 passengers who need to get to Frisco. I kept that bird up for 500 more miles and landed 12 minutes early.
Now, the pinstripers weren't too thrilled about that, but I know how to keep them at bay. They can threaten to bust me down to Navigator, but I know they'd never actually go through with it. Why? Because I'm the best they've got.
Then there was Flight 701 from Dulles to JFK a couple years back. We taxied almost 40 minutes late, and still those gutless sonofabitch controllers tried to put me in a takeoff queue. I knew the flight could land on time if I went for it, so I cut across the median and grabbed Runway F, which was down for routine maintenance. The lead controller screamed a blue streak, but I got those passengers into Terminal C three minutes ahead of schedule. To this day, the FAA still rides my ass about that one, carrying on with their by-the-book bull****.
I'll tell you the real reason for my being on the FAA's **** list. Let's just say Chief Boswell still hasn't forgotten about a little "incident" in flight school 20 years ago.
It was Aug. 14, 1982. I was a cocky young buck then, at the stick of a DC-9 for the first time in my life. Boswell was my instructor. At 13,000 feet and climbing, he radios me to cut the fuel and land because of a radar problem on their end. Like I'm gonna cut my flight just because their damn ears are off. So I kept climbing to 20K, until that zero-visibility pinhead threatened to expel and blacklist me from every flight school in the country if I didn't make nice and come down.
Well, I knew when I was beaten, but I got the last word by buzzing the tower, pulling away at the last possible second. I swear I saw that hardass dive under the console for cover, right in front of the CEO of Boeing. Later on, I heard Boswell was wearing different pants for the rest of the day. He never forgave me for humiliating him like that, and I only made it worse six years ago by taking the sexy stewardess he was looking to score with to the Norfolk Hilton for a night of sweet Mongoose Love. He's never forgotten that (and neither has that stewardess, I'm sure). To this day, Boswell rides my ass about every last rule in the book, every chance he gets.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in the importance of rules and regulations for protecting clueless greenhorn pilots from themselves. But we're talking about Mongoose here. I laugh at air pockets. Turbulence is a walk in the park for me. Once, when a blizzard was approaching the East Coast, I maxed all the engines and went from LAX to Logan in five hours, still a passenger-aviation record. Did I break a sweat? Hell, no. I had Steel copiloting. With the Steel-Man to my right, I could scratch a cockroach's back with a 747 and still land at O'Hare under the gun.
I have no patience for suits riding my ass about "the book says this" or "regulations say that." Or "a standard-issue Captain's hat does not have claws embroidered on it" or "every passenger on that flight has joined a class-action suit because they believed they were going to die." Hell, if those passengers don't think flying under the St. Louis Arch at 600 mph makes for a great story, they don't deserve to fly Mongoose Air.
People say I'd be good enough to fly Air Force One if I weren't such a pistol. That's no skin off my ass. Let some namby-pamby milquetoast Air Force honors-student be a once-a-month chauffeur for the world's most overpaid kingfish. Mongoose serves the people.
I gotta admit, though, just once I'd love to strap on one of those Concordes.

[undersiege]

I apologize if this question has been asked before but does a large comercial aircraft have door and ignition keys or can anyone just open it up and start it up?
MP

What do you think most of the delays are caused by???? "OPERATIONAL REASONS". No!!!!. The captain has forgot his keys and is downstairs under the aircraft looking for the hidden magnetic case that contains the spare key in it.:E:E:E:}:}:}

[llanfairpg]

It was even worse when we had flat batteries on the early 707s and the First Officer had to kick start them, boy did I feel sorry for those co-pilots

[llanfairpg]

I gotta admit, though, just once I'd love to strap on one of those Concordes.You can get them in the toilet next to arrivals in Terminal 1

[silverelise]

But the best one is when i get one of the new girls to refuel the aircraft and ask her if there is any chance I could put it on her credit card as i left mine in the crew room.
Something not dissimilar happened on a Monarch flight a while ago. They were downroute taking a fuel uplft and for whatever reason the Captain couldn't pay, so had to make PA asking for someone with a credit card on board to makethemselves known.
Some chap coughed up a rather large sum on his credit card, and as thanks he got something like one single economy ticket. :ooh:

[llanfairpg]

but did he get the glasses?