Inflation Inflation! EK what to expect?

[ekpilot]

UAE inflation will accelerate to 10.1% this year before easing to 8.9% in 2008, the poll showed. Prices rose 9.3% in 2006, the fastest pace in 19 years.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/506403-inflation-to-plague-gulf-in-2008-?ln=en

2006 = 9.3%
2007 = 10.1%
2008 = 8.9%
Total = 27.3%
So Basically 19.4% in the last 2 years. How much pay raise did we get? About 10% a year? (Can't count the 3% since it is not a pay raise but a salary increment) Just enough to keep up with inflation. What if we consider exchange rate? And what if we consider the cost neutral changes to the credits. You end up working more for your money.
So finally it comes to light that we end up making less today than 2 years ago. What's in store for 2008? My guess 10% + 3%
So really, are we making more money then 2 years ago?
What do you think?

[puff m'call]

I agree with you all the way, but do you think that TC and AAR really care as long as they see bums on pilots seats.

They don't care where their from or the quality of pilot, just numbers. Look at how the training's been brought down to the absolute minimum. :=

It's been that way for years so don't expect it to change anytime soon. :ugh:

[jollyikarus]

And how high is the inflation rate in your home country?
Don't just focus on the UAE, where the cost of day-to-day living is still relatively low as compared to Europe, Canada or the USA!
Don't forget that the cost of petrol and insurance for your car is much lower than at home - for one thing......could mention many more.
Pilots all over the world (and not only pilots!) are being hit by inflation, increase in taxation and decrease in salary and working conditions!

With all respect, but what I saw in the UAE recently, you guys in the Gulf region are not too badly off. Of course, there is always something better somewhere else...but not for many!

Do some research and you will find that others are also facing some - sometimes even big - problems.

And looking forward.....in another three years or so, things might really get hard for many!

Cheers,

JI

[peterowensfanclub]

So Puff,
Your post would infer that you then are a quality pilot. Such arrogance is usually an indicator of the opposite. Does that mean that the earlier the selection the higher quality the pilot.

That would make you of lesser quality than all the guys that joined before you. EK has always needed more pilots so using your logic you are of a quality of your selection year. The best at the start and the worse at the end. So you see its all relative. Bit like a wine vintage for w@nkers.

Interesting that people slag off the selection much like A levels are easier each year, and yet one of the first arguments used vis a vis ek detractors is a slagging based on the assumption that they failed selection and so are bitter.

What a crock of sh1t. I know some quality people that have joined EK on both seats in the last year. and some utter t0ssers as long ago as 2000.
You do the math.:ok:

[ekpilot]

I don't post much here for the exact reason of these two examples. Is it so hard to stay with the subject of the thread. I'm asking you what do you thing EK will do in 2008. Not what is the inflation in Europe, Canada, USA, Or about your perception of someone posting a reply. At least Puff brought a point related to the question. Talk about the subject. If you have emotional relief to be exercised, please do it on a proper thread.
And the question was...
What do you think EK will do in 2008 to counter the record inflation in the UAE?
Pretty simple?

[GMDS]

My guess:
Not more and not less than during the earlier years. If the gvt says their very true and unbiased inflation is 9,3%, we'll get a 9% rise. If the big cheats say we barely made the profit target and fuel is sooo expensive, then we'll get 51/2 weeks profit share. If you behaved well, did all the pelesys sh*t dilligently, you'll get 3% carreer rise. The housing is only a problem for EK, the ones who are out of compacc are left alone, the'll get maybe 5% more and end up paying 20% more out of their pocket. Schooling increases will be none of EK's business so parents will have to brunt the 20% more. Below the line end of the month we'll all have about 8% less, the difference to the effective inflation.
And still pilots continue to come as Del Amitri sing: "Nothing ever happens, nothing happens at all, the needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along as before, and we'll all be lonely tonight and lonely tomorrow".
Before 2005 we were able to save a little, today we are just covering our costs. Tomorrow we'll have to pay to stay, meaning a negative balance. That's when the big bunch is going to leave. Mainly Europeans, Kiwis and Australians.
Before some heavy metal is grounded for lack of crew, the glorious emperors AAM, TC, MF and AAR will continue to parade naked and everybody continues to tell them how neatly they are dressed. Behind their backs we all despise them today already. And it shows on the motivation, some crews lately weren't too far off BA or DL ambiente....

My X-mas wish this year is that some top body or top shot tells them they look awfull, all naked, and not some smoking hole.
Now let's replay Del Amitri

Marry Christmas
GMDS

[michael.e]

situation is great, everything cost more.

todays price hike item is bottled gas will now be 96 AED for the medium bottle while in September 2006 when I showed up it was 64AED.

calculate how you like, in the 16 months its 50% increase in that item alone,

Oh and we get knock on effects when you eat out because it cost them more to cook.

[fatbus]

Im shocked over the price of bottled gas , but if you are with EK you dont pay.

[revolucionpilot]

euro zone inflation is ca. 2.4 %.... no comparison..mate.

[Wiley]

I was talking today with a long-term Dubai resident who isn't in Aviation, but to listen to him, you'd think he was, for his complaints - (complaints that he says are shared by most of the people he deals with in Dubai) - were almost exactly what you see here from the EP Pilots' Moan Club (of which I believe I am a charter member). He even mentioned one friend who is planning to up sticks and move his business to Bahrain - same problems, but a cheaper cost of living and, most importantly, the ability to enjoy a lifestyle that Dubai's gigantic building site/perpetual traffic jam simply won't allow any more.

The conversation led me to saying that someone at the top in Dubai seems to have fallen into the trap of believing their own propaganda. Why did Western expats come to the Sandpit back in the 70's and earlier, to live in what were in many ways pretty difficult conditions? The answer is - the money. People were willing to put up with a lot of discomfort because they were able to put enough away to make the pain worthwhile, and leave them with enough money saved to enjoy a comfortable life post-Sandpit.

That equation has been lost for 99% of Dubai residents over the last few years, from Pakistaini labourers to middle level Western managers (which most of us would probably feel we equate to). Simply put, for almost everyone, the cash flow dribbling into the bucket on the right shoulder is no longer balancing the **** pouring at a far faster rate into the bucket on the left shoulder.

And unless someone towards the top recognises this fact really soon, enough (including this little black duck) are going to cry "enough" and give the Sandpit away.

[harry the cod]

Apologies to all for this reply but it needs saying;

Peterowensfanclub

Before you launch another written tirade against a fellow ppruner, perhaps you should have all your facts available first. If you have been in EK for at least the last 4 years or so, you'll realise that 'puff m'call' was merely stating facts. Training has been brought down to a minimum.

Initial CRM used to be a 3 day event off at some hotel. It's now a 2 day in the classroom. The 3 yearly all day Pilot dedicated CRM recurrent has now been replaced with a 2 hour SEP slanging match with the Cabin Crew. No wonder this years 'useful' topic is stress management. Our 4 day recurrent PPC was reduced to 3 days 2 years ago and is now a 2 day affair. Everything is now becoming a tick in the box exercise on our home computers through pelesys. Even a 30 minute course on how to become better leaders. Yeah right, that'll work. They want the end product but they don't want to pay for it. And that's what's happening to some extent with recruitment as well.
The standards are still within the required level but they're most definately not as high as several years ago. The levels of performance and experience of new Pilots has dropped within this band and is now reaching the lower part of which we can drop no further. Unless of course entry requirements are lowered. I have yet to meet any trainer who would say otherwise. Of course there are some very capable guys but it's the average standard that's declined, especially pertaining to communication.

I'll be happy to discuss further on another forum or PM me but don't ever come on here as a 'professional' and slag someone off when all you're proving is your ignorance.

Harry

Now, back to the thread.......................

[ekpilot]

By the way! Here is an update!
UAE consumers will be hit hard, with inflation likely to rise to 12%, the chairman of Sharjah Chamber of Commerce and Industry told Emirates Business 24/7. Ahmed Mohammed Al Midfa said “With many families in the UAE depending on salaries, high inflation will affect the purchasing power of the residents.
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/506598-food-prices-continue-to-escalate
Remember the tendency of agencies to be very conservative when they publish negative forecasts around here. Bring some more examples and post them here when you find some. We need to really know... Don't we?
What is EK going to do about it? Tell me Tell me?

[ekpilot]

The cost of gas cylinders in Dubai has jumped by more than 20%, with Emirates Gas and Emarat announcing hikes yesterday, Sunday, reported Gulf News. The cost of an 11 kilogramme (kg) cylinder has gone up from Dhs43 to Dhs53, while a 22 kg canister has risen from Dhs76 to Dhs92 and a 44 kg container from Dhs143 to Dhs187.
http://www.ameinfo.com/142106.html

[5man]

Surely the only way to solve all our moans and groans is an obvious pay rise. But hey how many ppl thinks we are getting it please raise your hands. Hmmm that is none is see.

[Macaroon]

Our department want to make the default basic salary pay rise 0%, i.e. not have any cost of living raise (excluding allowance raises). The merit pot allocation would then be used to give greater increases to higher performers .. sound theory so far ... but with the rampant inflation I think there is a risk that people will just leave quicker as they would sink more quickly than they are now. We would then struggle to replace the ones we wanted to as our packages are not that attractive. 'Spose it's one way of flushing out the poor performers!!

[QCM]

...the silver tint in the dark cloud...you can get the Chinese girl now for 300 UAD,which is a nice 40% deflation.Of course,don't tell them to come back for the eggs:}:E

[peterowensfanclub]

Harry,

Touched a nerve, I apologise. It was not a tirade and I shall post my opinion as I see fit, but thanks for the advice anyway.:ok:

[L1011]

Muttley - you were lucky.

Some shops now require you to prebook your egg purchases.

I had to provide two photos and a copy of my visa :}

[schismatic]

There is one constant in EK:

The Goods and Services you can purchase for each hour of work put in for EK has got less each year for the past decade.

This sums up EK's productivity policies, inflation, dirham decline and all the rest.

Never forget there are hundreds in EK's admin dedicated to this very task. Some are also extremely competant in this area. Its not likely to change any time soon. So stop wishing for some miracle.

We can mash out the numbers and statistics anyway we want but the constant remains the same

[LHR Rain]

My villa is now going to 250,000 AED annually. That is a lot of money and for that money if I was in London or NY I would be living large. But in Dubai I have only 3 bedrooms and less space I had back home. Also I am lucky to have a 5X5 patch of grass and a tiny little space for an outdoor table which I can use 4-5 months of the year. Such a baragin!
Many ex-pats have already called it quits and many more to come because it just is not worth it anymore. The inflation is worse than the falling dollar but both bad. I have the the distinct feeling that it is nothing more than greed because even the products from dollar pegged countries have more than doubled. Why? There is no currency fluctuations there, why do they have to raise so much?
250,000 for a villa, just a crime and we accept it!

[schismatic]

Across the UAE prices took a sudden rise over the new year.

Many retailers increased prices of stock over the new year to deal with their increased costs. Most of it is subtle, a few dirhams here and there but in percentages the range is 30-80% over a large number of everyday items. Obviously this will be reflected in the final bill for multiple items.

Many services also increased costs for 2008. E.g. Maid services went up by Dhs 5 with many companies. This represents about a 20% increase.

Does anyone have any idea as to whether we will get a preview of salary increases in Jan or Feb as we did last year or was that a one off?

[my salami]

....Probably... but my guess is 7pc plus the usual 3pc annual increase.
If we're lucky we'll probably get a revision on the flight pay. :{

[ruserious]

If we're lucky we'll probably get a revision on the flight pay

No, all the payrise will be on the flight pay, as that has no pension, erp or holiday pay component. In a couple of years we will be like the cabin crew 50% of our pay will be hourly. That way the senior managers get an even bigger slice of the profit share :ugh: :ugh:

[disconnected]

The 3% is pretty much certain as this is a yearly step ostensibly for loyalty, years of service etc. We used to have a schedule on this. Does anyone know if it still exists?

The flying pay will approximately double. This gives about a 17% rise at the bottom of the F/O scale which attracts new joiners depending on how the company spins it.

At the top end of the Captain's scale the increment is about 9.5%. This is approximately in line with published inflation figures for the UAE. No captains on the top scale will leave as its difficult to match the package elsewhere.

If the cycle is repeated for 5 years with flying pay adjusted to keep the total pay increase in the region of 10-15% then flying pay will represent approx 50% of the total monthly pay package.

The total increase for Provident Fund, ERP etc obviously only goes up by 3% which means over the years they can decrease it to negligible levels. If it goes up by 3% for 5 years while inflation stays in the 8-10% bracket this would represent a 30% devaluation of company contributions.

Again the company indirectly recovers cost when employees are on leave or are sick.

Flying pay was a definitive step toward a scheme of a basic retainer and pay for productive work while diluting other company package contributions. Pilots are no-longer considered professionals but simply hourly wage earners.

[dusty777]

INCREASE IN MEMBERSHIP FEES: Beginning February 2008, the EPC Membership fees will be increasing. This increase was approved at the AGM, held in December 2007. Single membership will now be AED75pcm, and Couple membership will be AED150pcm.

Is that a 50% increase as I am not sure what they pay now?
Dirt.

[emratty]

I am glad EPC have raised the membership fees hopefully it means we can keep the deals we have now.
Still a bargain:ok:

[EGGW]

Complete and utter bargain!!!!!!! :ok::ok: Nice one boys

EGGW

[GMDS]

No problem with EPC. It's great value, thanks guys.

whereas...


Pilots are no-longer considered professionals but simply hourly wage earners.


Unfortunately i have to agree. But as long as the competition in the region is managed by junior league clowns, backed by silly and ignorant owners, there's not much more in it for us. The poor pilots from these laughable outfits are constantly knocking on EK's door. Why should they up the package then? To replace those defectors, the clowns recruit the more inexperienced or desperate. But even these guys realise, that after a short while, and after increasing their hours, they can knock at this same door .... and the story repeats itself.
Pilot shortage is not that much of a problem for the best in the league. It only stops when the influx stops and this will only happen after a smoking hole when the affected outfit then raises the conditions etc. etc. (see GF tragedy). As cynical as this sounds, it has been proven over and over and no one seems to learn. :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

So we have to brace for more erosion of our conditions. Which, and i repeat myself, are still pretty good, just as the ops. But that's not a reason to simply accept such an erosion as long as the owners increase profits. Allthough i am out of ideas on how to defend ourselves, i have to admit ......:(

GMDS

[disconnected]

Well lets face it, technology is making up for eroding flying skills, communications and centralised operations management make up for lack of command skills. Hence it requires less and less ability to be a professional pilot.

Airlines recognise this and hence true salaries have decreased over the past 3 decades. Sure demand will go up but so will supply. The supply will be of a generally lower quality and experience level but nonetheless adequate to fulfil the task except on relatively rare occasions.

Given the scarcity of these occasions it boils down to economic risk management. Occasionally hulls will be lost but if catered for in the planning, the risk may be acceptable.

As aircraft technologies and airports improve the remuneration for flying can only go one way.

[ekpilot]

What about the level of responsibility? Bigger airplanes, more people, more problems, more rules, more destinations, more risks, no protections... It's not about skills, it's about responsibilities. How much do you need to get paid to go to work being the last slice of cheese...

[White Knight]

That last slice of cheese.. Wouldn't be dine on demand would it?:\:\

[correamd11]

Even with this increase it is bloody cheap.
Guys in EPC do an outstanding job ! And they don't get paid for this. Thanks EPC!:ok:

[menard]

My prediction is: Inflation rate here is gonna be unacceptable (Just like the last few years).

In today's press:

Business (Gulfnews)
Economy

Inflation hits Gulf business confidence
By Cleofe Maceda, Staff Reporter
Published: January 10, 2008, 00:55


Dubai: Business confidence in the Gulf has dipped with businesspeople complaining about inflation, the fourth quarter 2007 HSBC Gulf Business Confidence Index shows.

Read the whole article on this link:http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10180719.html

[schismatic]

INFLATION - WHAT TO EXPECT ?!?!?!

Are you kidding?

Over the new year prices rocketed in Dubai. Inflation for January is now over 20% PA.

US has no choice but to cut interest rates to prevent or at least mitigate recession. Bernake stated as much today. The dollar is going down futher and with it the Dirham. If you are getting ERP you are probably peaked at the cap so your salary will now go down in tandem.

Along with this so will your Provident Fund if you are in US Equities or cash.

Standby for rampant inflation this year, with a dwindling salary. It all means one thing. LESS DISPOSABLE INCOME or LESS SAVINGS.

If you are in any doubt look at the Gold and Oil prices in Dollars or Dirhams. They tell the truth as they are tangible commodities. If you thought 2007 was harsh you aint seen nothing yet.....

[dunerider]

I agree with Schismatic. The price increases after the New Year have been
incredible. Almost every tag displaying the prices on the supermarket shelves
have been manually altered and increased. I think I could conservatively say by 20%.My local car wash is now 30dhs up from 20dhs and the super duper one at the defense round about is now 35 up from the usual 30.(although I must say this is still great value).Now those "happy pilots" amongst us may say this is also occurring in the 1st world. True however my fear is that coupled with the de-valuing US$ and the previous steep inflation in Dubai we are in for a hard year in the hip pocket.EK will address the problem with the usual 3% and perhaps a increase in flight pay of lets say 5%.However,they will get it back in productivity. Certainly factoring will again raise its ugly head along with 24hr layovers in IAH,SFO,YVR and LAX.I wont even mention what will happen with the allowances down-route. My guess is an overall package reduction in relation to the rest of the world of 15% after the review in March.

[disconnected]

Inflation, Currency Movements, Salary Increases etc. We can debate for hours.

Simple Fact: If you look at a comparable EK salary e.g. Joining F/O or 5 years with the company Capt, the salary has dropped dramatically when measured against almost anything.

Forget the numbers; take the salary and see what it bought in terms of Gold, Property, Oil, Grain, Labour etc. and the depreciation is huge.

EG A Starting EK FO in 1997 earned 12 Ounces of Gold. Today he earns 6.2 Ounces. Try it with oil, wheat, whatever you like and the ratios will be comparable. Same for an EK captain.

Little wonder the employees are cynical. Being told you are worth less every year hardly buys loyalty.

The "its not so bad" brigade make me laugh. Sure if they came from a worse circumstance then things are better. If anyone has been here for some time however then they naturally would feel unappreciated given the EK profits over the same periods have risen when measured against the same benchmarks.

[schismatic]

True - In fact in many areas the true salaries have fallen dramatically in the UAE, squeezed by companies, a declining dirham and the associated inflation.

Unfortunately most people get focused on the numerical amount and its percentage increase when they get a raise. A 15% salary raise, for instance, is hardly exciting, if the currency drops 10% and inflation runs at 10% as it has over the last year. And these figure are conservative!

The goverment realised this when it gave their employees a 70% rise. It was simply putting their comparitive earning power back in line with what is was some years ago. Of course this move will in itself fuel inflation as someone has to pay the bill. Standby for large increases in any government service. I believe DEWA costs are to go up in the next month.

Anyone joining an airline in the region should simply check the trend of salaries against some tangible asset before making choice to move here.

EK salaries have undeniably fallen considerably over the past decade. And there is no magic bullet of pilot shortage that will remedy this. EK have sucessfully navigated this hurdle before and still kept lowering the real costs of the employees.

The downward trend has never been broken.

[emratty]

Pixy you are correct the banks here want it both ways ( they do all over the world but not quite on the same scale as here!) I now keep NO spare cash in this beautiful place everything goes into a decent currency crap exhange rate or not!
On the subject of the declining dollar for those sending money to the UK the pound has weakened dramatically against the dollar over the last two months and looks set to continue this trend with many currency traders predicting a $1.70 to the pound by the end of this year.:ok:

[Mack Tuck]

Motto of this place is the same as Gordon's...Greed is good!

[disconnected]

Time to Name and Shame

Does anyone know of any banks that HAVE cut mortgage rates?

I know my bank HSBC have done nothing at all and say they do not intend to do so.

Yeah Greed is Good but ultimately it will be your undoing. What happened to Gordon..

[Thridle Op Des]

Mashreq has dropped our rate twice in the last three months.

[schismatic]

Interesting TOD.

What are you paying now if I may ask. Is this a standard variable reducing balance loan or a Shariah Loan?

Info much appreciated

[Thridle Op Des]

The former, looking at my statements again, I had a 0.4% increase in August 2008, a teeny weeny 0.005% drop in November and more substantial 3.2% drop in December. (the teeny weeny bit may have been a bank 'correction' so my not actually count, but the direction was encouraging no matter how small!)

I am in agreement with the general mood of the thread - inflation in UAE is a serious issue for all of us.

Regards

TOD

[emratty]

I don't know what you all think but since christmas the price increases have been huge, everything from getting your car washed at the jinglymatic to a loaf of bread. My better half just paid 8dhs50 for one manky red pepper from Choitrums:eek:
Ek have to be real with the payrise 5-10% is not going to cut it we all know the REAL inflation here and it isn't 10%.
Pilots are not leaving at the moment however with how things are going and with the shocking rosters that have been issued this month that could change very quickly.

[ekpilot]

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/509781-gulf-businesses-take-inflation-hit

Businesses have been badly hit by rising inflation, with costs increasing faster than they can be passed on to customers

Question is: With the much favorable context of monopoly in the UAE, do you expect more than the predicted forecasted 12% of inflation for 2008 to be passed on us eventually? Will it affect your lifestyle? And what is your guess of the real inflation in Dubai?

I say 20% easy... my guess!

[Lil Bro]

Forgive me for being dumb, but...

I thought it was against Islam or the Koran to charge interest??

[schismatic]

This in 7 Days:

http://www.7days.ae/en/2008/02/01/uae-follows-fed-interest-rate-cut.html

This in Gulf News

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Banking_and_Finance/10186459.html


Its going to get a whole lot worse.....
Like previous years any salary review will bring us slightly short of where we were this time last year and for the rest of the year savings will be diminished. This has been going on for at least 10 years to the point where a joining F/O is earning half of what he did ten years ago when adjusted for inlflation.

[baob2oba]

"""Forgive me for being dumb, but...

I thought it was against Islam or the Koran to charge interest??"""



So this is how it goes...

_"What's the interest rate?"
_"There's no interest rate sir, this is a PROFIT rate"
_"Ahhh, and what's the difference ?"
_"Well, we don't apply any interest but we charge a profit on your transaction"
_"Ahhh, so what's the difference ?"
_"Well, we will buy the goods under our name, apply a fee, then sell it back to you, you repay a fraction of it every month"
_"Ahhh"

If you dig more, they will try to make you understand that the profit rate is an administrative fee...

[Gulf News]

A mate of mine in the financial industry here tells me that the banks have been instructed by the Federal Government to mantain their current interest/profit rates for at least 6 months as measure to control inflation. Too bad the government does't follow its own policy on inflation control. If they did they would not have awarded government employees a 70% payrise which is starting to push inflation to unprecedented levels after government payday last month:ugh:.

[disconnected]

How does paying more for something that should be less get explained as controlling inflation?

Lower housing payments would be a relief on my pocket.

Sounds like a great excuse for making more money. Now the government wouldn't have a vested interest in the banks would they.......

[schismatic]

"Inflation in the UAE is in danger of hitting a 20-year high of 12% this year unless the dirham is revalued or depegged from the US dollar, investment bank Merrill Lynch warned on Sunday. The firm said in a report the absence of a tight monetary policy, combined with strong capital inflows and weak fiscal prudence would likely up drive inflation across the Gulf.

"Inflation is likely to stay on an increasing trend in the short term," the bank said. "With heated domestic demand, pegs to the sliding US dollar not only import inflation and fuel domestic liquidity but, more importantly, they also import easing monetary policy." Gulf states' peg to the dollar forces them to track US monetary policy at a time when the Federal Reserve is cutting interest rates to stimulate the economy.

Merrill said inflation in Saudi Arabia might average 6% this year, compared with 4% last year, while in Oman inflation may rise to 7.2%, from 4.4% last year, and in Bahrain to 4.5% from 3%. Despite breaking ranks with neighbouring Gulf states and depegging from the dollar in May last year, Merrill said Kuwait was also likely to see inflation surge in 2008/09 to an average of 6.6% from 4.4% last year due to rising house prices.

The bank said Qatar, which has the highest level of inflation in the Gulf at 14% last year, may see inflation drop slightly to 13% for 2008/09 due to housing supply coming on to the market. Merrill said inflation would continue to keep pressure on Gulf states to revalue or depeg their currencies from the tumbling dollar. "In a region with constrained policy choices, we expect currency strengthening to be used as a policy tool in the fight against inflation. Therefore, de-pegging and/or revaluation of the currencies will remain under spotlight," it said, highlighting the UAE and Qatar as the most likely to change their monetary policy.

"In a region with constrained policy choices, we expect currency strengthening to be used as a policy tool in the fight against inflation." The bank also disagreed with GCC governments' assessment that inflation was just temporary, and said non-market measures such as higher subsidies, allowances, "irrational" wage increases and caps on rents would only mask the problem and not solve it."

Its already past 12%. Latest estimate is foreign labour is suffering 15% inflation. Source - Financial Times:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/23d469ba-c38d-11dc-b083-0000779fd2ac.html

[critical winge]

For Locals there is no inflation, only Jubilation. Government workers with a 70% payrise and Local Pilots get the <special UAE Allowance WAYYYYYYYYYY above the ERP>

[SIC]

15 years ago THEY NEEDED YOU to build up Dubai - and THEY PAID YOU FOR IT.

Now that every pom and his mate ( as well as Eastern European, South American, Aussie, Saffers and the like ) WANTS to come to Dubai the tables have turned.

NOW YOU NEED THEM to make a living - AND YOU WILL PAY FOR IT.

Simple demand and supply:ugh:

[Gulf News]

How does paying more for something that should be less get explained as controlling inflation?

Because if borrowing costs are lower people will borrow more to buy more stuff. In a free market economy (ie without price controls) more money chasing fewer goods will cause inflation.

I agree that residential mortgage rates should be reduced as this should improve supply and reduce rents in the log term with everyone getting a fair shake of the dice but once you have lived here for any length of time you realize that the economy is terribly slanted toward making a section of society filthy rich at the expense of others.

[disconnected]

Gulf News, I see your point but I think it will backfire. If there is a peg it should remain in all aspects. If certain areas are slanted the peg will get strained with unpredictable consequences.

Liquidity being extracted from other markets needs a place to go. American Dollar holders and borrowers can now use these dollars to buy dirhams and invest in middle east property. They will pay borrowing rates far lower than available in the UAE. This will push up property prices (and everything else) inflating the bubble. There is no currency risk as the two are pegged.

If the disparity gets any worse we will have a carry trade on the Dirham with no currency risk!

[BigGeordie]

Everything, absolutely everything.

[ekpilot]

The rising cost of living is having a direct impact on employees' ability to save money. To illustrate, 41 per cent of UAE-based expatriates reported making no savings on their income, the highest figure in the Gulf.

http://www.ameinfo.com/141739.html

It is really out of control, these are just not rumors, they are hard facts.

2006 was 9.3%
2007 was 12.0%
2008 well your guess

We need to get 12% on all parts of our famous package just to stay where we are. Well i think we are heading for a definitive pay cut this year. What do you think? :rolleyes:

[disconnected]

In the 1997 Pay review, a First Year F/O got AED 15720. There was no flying pay.
On the EK Recruitment website today a First Year F/O gets AED 20840. Flying 75 hours he will get a further AED 2625 making a total of AED 23465.

The increase over 10 years of 15780 to 23465 represents an annual increase of 4.1% per year.

You dont need to be a genius to see that compared to published inflation figures, salaries have fallen drastically and continue to do so.

Against realistic figures tracked on non-government websites, the situation is far more depressing.

[fatbus]

has anyone had leave bought back

[BigGeordie]

Here's an interesting link to a report published by a recruitment agency in Dubai:

http://www.costoflivingdubai.net/2007.aspx

It refers to, not surprisingly, the cost of living in Dubai in 2007.

[disconnected]

From that article:

Of course, official figures may not agree. Inflation and cost of living data tends to vary a lot in Dubai because the population itself varies so much: it’s hard to pin down one “average” consumer, given the wide range of cultures, incomes and lifestyles in the city. Moreover, UAE Nationals benefit from subsidised or free healthcare, education, utilities and housing, so an official “inflation” rate of --% may be true for Nationals, but wholly inaccurate for the remaining 85 per cent of the population....

Very true.

[ekpilot]

Just click on the other links of this nice resumé of articles in the local newspaper the Gulf News. It covers Commodities, Education, Rent and Properties, Transportation, and more articles. In my opinion the rising cost of living is more like 20% inflation . If you are planning to come and live in Dubai you should read all these articles carefully which by the way are not from a rumour network.

http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth/costofliving/

Enjoy :ok:

[schismatic]

We aint seen nothing yet. MUCH more to come.....

http://www.gulf-news.com/nation/General/10189616.html

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/11/13/10167150.html

The UAE has become too expensive to sustain the expat life. Most of my friends in other professions have either received a large payrise or are leaving.

[menard]

EKpilot, schismatic

Absolutely true, like you said, not from rumors, FACTS.

When people not living here see guys calling a 6% or 9% pay rise a joke, do a little research and you will understand.

That's just ONE of the negative aspects of life here. Most things (Money, rosters, vacations, days off....etc etc) have been constantly deteriorating, explaining people's frustration.

[BigGeordie]

This just in:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/51143...vy-users?ln=en

Increases in utility costs for high users- but does not apply to UAE Nationals.:hmm:

Obviously does not affect people in company accommodation (yet!) but gives you an idea of the way things are going in Dubai- although in fairness this is the first increase since 1998.

[ekpilot]

A utility bill increase would add to soaring inflation in Dubai, which already has the highest cost of living in the United Arab Emirates. Inflation in the UAE hit a 19-year high of 9.3% in 2006.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/511439-dubai-utility-to-increase-tariffs-on-heavy-users

2006 inflation figures:rolleyes: You want 2007? Well 12% and you want 2008? Probably the same as the future increase... watch and see!

My guess? 30% DEWA increase.

[disconnected]

Schismatic - 9.2% inflation last year is conservative. Already being revised upwards:

Annual money supply growth in the UAE, an indicator of future inflation, jumped 33.8% at the end of September, central bank data showed on Monday.

M3, the broadest measure of money circulating in the economy, was 623.4 billion dirhams ($169.8 billion) on September 30, compared with 466.08 billion dirhams a year earlier, data obtained by newswire Reuters showed.

Inflation may have accelerated to 10.1% last year, according to a Reuters survey of economists. (Reuters)

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/511512-uae-risks-massive-inflation-surge

[K9]

10.1 % My a$$!

DUBAI (Reuters)

The price of basic foods in the United Arab Emirates surged 36 percent over the last year, in part because the dollar-pegged dirham declined, making some imports more expensive, the local Gulf news reported on Thursday.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/02/14/45623.html

[ekpilot]

Guys thanks for backing what you say with facts, then it's much harder for some to try to discredit what is being said here on PP. One big problem with the published figures of inflation is how they are calculated. "disconnected" and ''BigGeordie" mentioned it already in previous posts. Here again an example in yesterday's local newspaper the gulf news where the utility increases are not applied to the inflation figures because they don't affect the Emiratis. They have so many discounts on all aspects of living here compare to expats.

Emiratis are exempt from the new rates.

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/08/02/17/10190474.html

[ekpilot]

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/salary-survey-report/article/511354-soaring-cost-of-living-top-reason-to-quid-job

Just not worth living here anymore. The boat has passed... a few years back! Now coming in the middle east today is for those who always get somewhere to late. You know what I mean. I'm looking for the next good thing. It is out there for sure... and it's not here that i know 100%

Keep Discovering :ok:

[rampstalker]

Well you hit the nail right on the head buddy, all the costs of gen life have been raised in the past 12 months and your salary will not follow this trend. housing, education, spinneys to name but a few. I am no longer in the UAE but in the far east where life goes on at a slower pace and much cheaper. Many adverts in flight.
Just one thing guys, if you do bail out from there, make sure of your provident payout or refund is taken care off the day you submit the resignation. Information passed to me was it would take three weeks to obtain, 5 months later I am stil waiting.
All you wanabees, thinking of the UAE, ONLY if you are desperate take it

[The Real Pink Baron]

Tell me again you are still waiting for your prov. fund???
Did you do a runner, or did you not pay your bank loan? Did you give the proper notice?

[disconnected]

Euro, Aussie, Kiwi and Loonie hitting record highs against the dirham and dollar. Even the battered pound is reclaiming its levels.

EK salaries dropped a little more today and further cost of living increases guaranteed in future months.

The Dirham will not be devalued any time soon as the labour is so cheap!

Enjoy the paycut - There is a lot more pain to come....

[5man]

Well the US dollar has just hit all time low against the Euro. Sigh even if inflation stops in Dubai, we are all taking a pay cut. Is there on end to these depressing drops. Futhermore no signs of the government going to peg the dirham to another currency. :ugh:This is how i feel

[The Real Pink Baron]

Have you been waiting 5 months for your prov. fund?
Or are you just on a very cruel windup?
Please respond!!!!

[5star]

50% price hikes since january 2008 (Dhs):

EPC membership : 100 now 150 /person/month.
Cleaning service : 25 now 35 / hour.
Gulf News :2 now 3 / issue.

Do you want me to continue ??? The list is long...

This price rally is really getting insane. :yuk:
it will be very interesting to see what happens in april with our pay(-rise?)...

[disconnected]

Yet another day of paycuts!

No they will not de-peg or revalue. The only pressure is inflation and that is purely a political pressure in most countries. Here it is not, as the locals can always have a pay rise or some allieviation. What do the ex-pats do? Hardly likely to be a political pressure here.

So no revaluation. They are making too much money out of us all!

Enjoy the paycut... Enjoy the inflation.....

This years salary review? Less than the salary devaluation over the past year that is certain. All wrapped up in some flowery language to say how lucky we all are...:yuk:

[rampstalker]

thats about the time. No I did not do a runner from the sandpit. Three months notice as required by both employer and employee.
I am not the only one in this situation, can give you emails for other unfortunate persons that found themselves in the same situation. I will not print names in this forum but can email

[The Real Pink Baron]

Please do!
This could make a huge difference to lots of leaving dates!
We are already being sk****d by changing T&C without having to worry about this!

[disconnected]

And another paycut...

Anyone who cannot see that employment at EK simply results in a declining earning power is delusional....

[menard]

Sad but true.

[GMDS]

Anyone who cannot see that employment at EK simply results in a declining earning power is delusional....

.... unless you're a local! But this is by no means a racial issue, as some ME citizen pointed out on a different thread, it's only a "class" issue.

You come here as a lower class pilot, meaning that as inflation does not affect the upper class, the lower one can take the cut or leave.

[Far Kinarss]

Just got back from Choithrams on Al Wasl. Planned a barbie tonight as currently enjoying one of the two or three weeks of the entire year that the weather isn't complete crap and fillet steak has risen from 79.95dhs/kg last time I bought it (which wasn't long ago) to 105dhs/kg. More than 30% increase. We MUST get a pay rise of 20-30% minimum or it just IS NOT worth staying.

[harry the cod]

May I recommend the Aussie rump from Lulu's by MOE. 39 dhs/kg and far tastier than fillet any day. Savings should buy you some vino to go with it!

Harry

[menard]

Had a BigMac meal at McDo. 17 dhs, was awesome, made with Somalian beef...

Life is good being an airline pilot.....

[The Real Pink Baron]

You still have not responded with an explanation!
You "STATED" that you and others are still waiting for payment of the provident fund.
Are you prepared to back this up, or are you just another MUCK stirrer.
I am very happy here, and I don't like ******* like you!
Speak up or shut up!

[schismatic]

Reuters:

ABU DHABI - Inflation in the UAE probably hit 10.9 percent in 2007, the National Bank of Abu Dhabi (NBAD) said, revising up its forecast for price rises by almost three percentage points on rising rents.

Inflation is rising rapidly across the world's top oil-exporting region, where economies are surging on a near five-fold rise in oil prices since 2002. UAE inflation hit a 19-year peak of 9.3 percent in 2006, according to official data.


"Indicators continue to point to unabated inflation," - NBAD

:eek:

[Ramboflyer 1]

"I am very happy here " From Red baron


Must have a shallow background........ I can maybe imagine some people here being happy but not Very happy as you put it...
Dubai is a ridiculous place to live . The job is fine when your out flying but i wish the management wouldnt screw with our rosters.
Im not saving any money here as a family and think I may as well go home and not save anything , will i get my provident fund and will they pay it in your own currency as a check in Dirhams may as well get stuck on the wall or binned.

[menard]

Two of a few posts from "The Real Pink Baron":

"OWW That hurts,
Sorry got to nip down to the 7/11 to get some more KY!
Why don't we all ring up these people (AAR,TCAS,ED,ETC) on their home numbers (from public phones) at 0200- 0500 and just say " Good morning this is your lazy pilot".
After about two weeks of this we will see if they change their attitude
Can someone please provide a list of home phone numbers?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Please do!
This could make a huge difference to lots of leaving dates!
We are already being sk****d by changing T&C without having to worry about this!
27th February 2008 22:43"

Yep, you seem quite happy here.....

[Pixy]

03 March 2008 - Business 24/7

"UAE workers are the least satisfied with their salaries compared to their peers in the other GCC countries, a study has revealed.

Growing inflation was found to have pushed the increase in cost of living out of proportion to the pay rises in the UAE and the GCC as a whole during 2007, according to the Regional Human Resource Overview report.

In the UAE, the average cost of living grew by 37 per cent compared to a 17 per cent rise in overall salary levels. This was only beaten by Qatar, where living costs increased by 38 per cent as opposed to a 16 per cent growth in pay. Average salaries rose in the 12 to 17 per cent range for the GCC while average cost of living increases registered in the range of 27 to 38 per cent."

Full article at
http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=3207

Do you think we will get a 27 to 38 percent payrise this year?
That would simply put us back where we were last year anyway.

[disconnected]

Oman hikes state workers' wages by 43% - Reuters

Saudi raises wages, subsidies as inflation soars - Business24/7

This is what it actually needs to bring our salaries back to where they were. The chances of this happening of course range from non existant to zero.

We are in for a very thrifty 2008 and frankly I doubt Emirates will ever catch up ever again. The slide will continue until one leaves for greener pastures.

[Thridle Op Des]

Just ordered a Chinese Take-Away from a well known joint in Al Barsha: 25% increase. Will have to take a look at the 10 Dhs all-you-can-eat in Al Quoz, problem is they have probably hiked it to 20!

The big price rises seem to have occurred since the beginning of this year. It looks as if the local suppliers have suddenly given up trying to keep the prices down. A lot of this price pressure has been surely caused by the 70% hike in Public Sector salaries. I'm told that the waiting list for all the top end vehicles stretches into the end of this year. All the senior military officers are placing their orders.

[Yossarian]

Have to agree. Big price rises have kicked in.

I keep a pretty tight budget and in the last 4-5 months have battled to break even.

[schismatic]

The Dirham has dropped further in recent days. The effect of that will take a few months to permeate the system.

It can only get worse and there is no immediate sign of any improvement. But humans adapt well. Take stock in 4 months and you will observe multiple sacrifices made to maintain status quo.

The frog eventually boils in the pot.

[disconnected]

"UAE inflation will accelerate to 10.1% this year"

This headline started this thread. Since then the figure has been revised to 10.4 then 10.9.

Independent reputable economists have made estimates in the 12-13% region.

The 10.9% figure is held artificially low as it relates to Emirates Nationals rather than expats. They get certain alleviations on cost of living which expats indirectly pay for. Hence the independent higher figure calculated by the same standards.

The final figures will be higher and are climbing daily. With the Fed predicted to cut rates by a further 0.75%, the situation can only get worse. Inflation on foodstuffs will maintain their level over 30%.

We are at a position where bi-annual salary reviews are in order.

[schismatic]

Nice thought Disco but the further between pay reviews the better for EK. They have a whole year at discount then play catch up to the previous years inflation figures at best. By then we have moved on and another year behind the drag curve which is only getting steeper by the day.

Bi-annual pay reviews is a great fantasy. If they did anything the preference would be for reviews every 2 years. In a marginal inflational environment that might even make sense from a admin point of view.

Take the extremes: 0% inflation means no urgency for comparison. Marginal increases for years of service, the only issue. In a 1000% environment, weekly reviews required or no workforce by year end. The higher the inflation the more frequent the reviews required.

Rumour has it that EK HR is woefully behind in salary comparisons and are getting quite a few rude shocks in the sub-continent where offers are actually getting rejected. We will never see the stats on job offer rejections for the company as a whole, but those empty or hastily filled transition course places are some indication.

[Gulf News]

This little gem just in. Probably a bit alarmist but even if half true it is cause for concern. Especially if articles like this are getting official sanction in a generally censored and "good news only" environment.


http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Commodities/10194903.html


Food price inflation in UAE could hit 40%
By Ahmed A. Elewa, Senior Reporter
Published: March 05, 2008, 00:37


Abu Dhabi: Food price inflation in the UAE could rise up to 40 per cent this year from the already high 27 per cent, a top official said.

"The inflation rate of food prices in the UAE was between 27 and 30 per cent in 2007, according to a survey concluded by Emirates Consumer Protection Society (ECPS). This figure can rise to 40 per cent in 2008, unless strong government intervention takes place by introducing a basket of efficient measures," Dr Jamal Al Saeidi, director of ECPS, said. He demanded increased government subsidies on fuel.

[disconnected]

Its not alarmist. Simply the truth.

Statistics for 2008 will show around 40% in this year due dirham decline combined with accelerating inflation. Countries battle to keep inflation below 4% at most otherwise the inflation spiral takes off. It has here and the genie is out the bottle. Its very difficult to get it back!

Assuming radical measures are taken right now it will take a few years to wind these levels back. But no measures have been taken and the dirham continues down. This may well be what finally brings the boom to an end.

Again anyone taking up employment in the UAE needs to be very careful.

[menard]

Why did the government employes get 70% payraise this year? Because the government of Dubai tought it was fair.

50% was not enough, 90% was too much, 70%.....Fair...

Governments don't have a reputation of being over-generous with public sectors employes. In fact, the private sector normally gets more...

Tells you how bad inflation is here.

[Wiley]

Food price inflation in UAE could hit 40%Could? Looking at my latest Choithram's bill, I'd say it damn near up there already.

[disconnected]

Wiley

Yes it is. Estimated by independent newpapers at 37% at the moment.

Any official figures you get are for the year gone by - not the year we are in. This is how we truly fall behind on pay increases. They are largely tempered by the government figure for the preceding year. Hence EK and others will be looking at the 11% to benchmark against.

However this figure is now history as the number was worked over 2007. What will be completely ignored will be the large price hikes we enjoyed in January when many companies took the change of calender year as the place to revalue stocks and ramp up prices to cater for their own increases.

So, we have experienced the 40% increase year to date, but salaries will rise to cater for the official, and now outdated, figures of the 2007 year.

This cycle is why we are where we are now; with salaries well behind what they used to be. The cycle was not particularly noticeable with the 3%, 4%, 5% figures of at the beginning of the decade but the cumulative effect and double digit inflation of today brings it sharply into focus.

With inflation destined to only go up, many will now fully understand the meaning of Inflation Spiral.

Hard lessons ahead.............

[decision time]

I have recently finished my interview and subsequently spent a few days with my wife in Dubai. The last time I was there was 2002 and there have been monumental changes.

I was keen on the prospect of working for a reputable airline but fear that the image of EK has been tarnished since I travelled there 6 years ago for a holiday, the appearance this time in comparison to 2002, was an outfit expanding at a phenomenal rate without attention to the detail that it was once renowned for.

Just before I came down I did some figures based on the pilot briefing document in particular that of pay and education.

The current pay for FO 20840 AED which equates to at the current exchange rates; US 5674 / STG 2869 / Euro 3727 / AUS 6112 . This is not very good, but alas tax free, the big issue is obviously the tie to the USD.

I don’t know what the pay was when I was there in 2002, but using the current FO pay of 20840 AED and the 2002 exchange rates this is what we get; US 5674 / STG 3994 / Euro 6529 / AUS 10898 . Of course the pay back in 2002 was probably less but was it 8245 AED less? Can anyone give the figures on the FO pay in 2002 as I’d like to update this here to see where it stands in relative terms? The EPR is as ambiguous as the word approximately.

The productivity pay is not concise, “AED for each block hour above approximately 78 hours per month.” It’s all very ambiguous which is something I don’t like, its no use saying, “well I thought I had approximately enough room to pass the other aircraft’s tailplane, but obviously I didn’t and now I’ve sliced off the other aircraft’s rudder with my winglet, which you’ll find approximately underneath their rear fuselage...”

The Educational Support allowance is named very well, it is Support. Whilst I have friends in other industries there, the package for education by EK is poor in comparison. I looked at the “list of Schools” document and noted that this document was issued on 21/3/07. I re-checked the tuition fees from the schools to find an alarmist rise in the fees. Example, registration at Jebel Ali PS is now 2000 Dhs, the company document states 1000 Dhs (that’s not a typo error but a 1000 Dhs rise in registration in 1 year), the current fees vary but are all in excess of the schools document, Jumeirah PS tuition fees for Gr 5 are 34800 Dhs but the company document states 30000 Dhs, this is a 16 % increase in one year! The company contribute AED 16000 then 90% of the balance up to AED32000. This 10% payment is increasing significantly every year, taking another hit on my potential income.

Medical and dental provisions for my family have increased and will be paid for by… me, based on the rate of inflation; I’m loosing more money every month to ensure my family has access to proper medical care in this country.

We had a meal at the same restaurant this year as I did 6 years ago and was not surprised to be paying more in real terms but I was taken aback at the cost of the meal, unbelievable inflation, it was hard to compare elsewhere but everything seemed so much more. It was a real draw card in 2002 the cheaper cost of living, a reputable operation but circumstances have changed just as rapidly as the inflation rate.

Emirates obviously have an exceptionally low cost base, it also has the ability to use its unique position to absorb any worldwide economic set backs and still grow successfully. But its growth appears to be at the behest of its staff, whom I’m sure are becoming disillusioned with the dream as their remuneration package diminishes whilst the desert envelops them. If I am fortunate enough to be accepted, I will decline the offer. I would cherish the opportunity but not if I am going to have to pay for it, which I could now see me doing in about two years time.

In the meantime, if they are short of operating staff due to the attraction of the present remuneration package, in order to keep the train on the tracks standards might inevitably become lowered. One shortcut too many will end the dream for EK and a few of my mates working there; we live in a world where the press can focus the world’s attention on any incident/accident with a frightening result on passenger bookings. It’s a balancing act the management appear to be willing to play, good luck but I will stay put where I am.

[schismatic]

Dollar down again and everything else up. (Except salaries)

What inflation to expect in the UAE? Um - Let me think....

HUGE INFLATION!

[mirabeau]

Think yourselves lucky your not in Saudi like us. At least you can have a beer when you're on a downer !

[disconnected]

Decision Time

Read the following threads:
Nice Paycut Today: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=315850
Buyer Beware: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=316212

Its all set out there.

Basic points:
Salaries: They have continually decreased in the currencies you mention.
ERP: It will not made up the difference and in fact will decline to nothing. (Its not relative to a fixed mark, but relative to a Rolling Average so washes out with time) Besides it only protects half your salary to an absolute max of 7.5%.
Education: You will pay 10% or more if fees are higher than the limit set.
Inflation is 11% officially. A lot more realistically.
FO Salary: Around 18000 in 2002, I think.
Cost of Living: Dubai is ranked 34 on the list of most expensive cities for expats. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities_for_expatriate_employees I suspect it has moved up a lot since this list.

There it is. Do your research and think carefully. Salaries are decreasing and inflation rising rapidly. Be careful!

[5star]

Well indeed to any european considering coming beware!!!! Make your own maths. FO salary now stands at 4100 euro ( includes FDP by the way). Captain now at 6100 euro. That is close to 800 resp. 1000 euros less than 1 year ago. F..... :mad:

Yes I know EK are not to blame for the flushing of the dollar but they certainly have to come up with an answer. I give them 6 months, else
I' m outta here. It's just not worth it any more...
Btw forget the ERP system. The effects of it are marginal.

Oh yes : Maybe I can put zeee wifeee to work. She'll get 750 euro per month over here if she's lucky.... :ugh:

Oh man. I need a beer.

[Rabbitwear]

Its all part of the grand plan to de-westernise Emirates ,a good reputation for the airline has been built up my many, allowing EK to fly to almost any destination.
Now its time to remove the westerners and replace them with cheap 3rd worlders who wont bitch and moan or try to form a union.
let the profits soare. If you think being loyal is the way to go look out.:{
CX is still the best job........

[disconnected]

The USD and corresponding Dirham demise is not the fault of Emirates of course. The main is issue is how they handle it and the next pay review will be a lot more about their ethos and attitude to employees that the money itself.

If they raise salaries by 20% or over then they will have made a reasonable effort to re-adjust remuneration to a level that reflects the reality of inflationary pressures and shows appropriate care for the employees, their quality and loyalty.

Any less would be frankly an insult. In effect acknowledging that they are paying less, they don't particularly care, and they are confident they can replace any leavers. Quality and loyalty not a major issue. We become more of aviation's wh*res, and not the team leading "managers" they profess we should aspire to

Utilities Allowance will be further revealing. At least 30% would be required to bring things more in line with what rentals and DEWA actually costs. An average family of 3 could not rent at much less than 200K with overheads, at best.

I doubt they are considering anywhere near this which would mean they frankly couldn't care if pilots have to move on. They will replace them. They are probably the more senior ones, so the replacement is cheaper anyway.

How they put the increase together will also be telling. My guess is 3% on basic and 100% on flying pay to make a total increase in a range of 9% to 17% depending on how much the basic is. I think after the review there will be much discontent with the more senior pilots. Their increase will be below inflationary levels but what are they going to do? Leave? It they do - good. It will save a mint.

Management will get around the same increases. Trick here is they don't have a flying pay component so all the other bits like PF, PS, ERP, Ins all go up accordingly. Effectively a greater package increase, and a greater portion of future Profit Share.

All the more reason to squeeze the pilots in the future!

We are actually the ones to blame here. Standards in the aircraft and profession are set by pilots, no-one else. Every pilot out there was put there by another pilot.....

[desert_knight]

Recent statement from TC doesn't exactly hold the promise of any significant pay rises!!!

"We'll have to raise fares and strip costs to compensate," Tim Clark told Dow Jones in an interview. He did not elaborate which fares the airline might raise and by how much.

Clark said that fuel now accounts for 30 per cent of Emirates' costs, up from about 14 per cent in 2004. Clark also said the airline is considering cost savings of "at least $100 million in the coming financial year and higher ticket prices".

[410]

disconnected says:Any less (than 20%) would be frankly an insultI think it would be pretty safe to say you can stand by with absolute certainty for an insult.

[disconnected]

Agreed 410. Unlikely to get that much.

The important thing to remember therefore, is that after this year's increase be worse off than this time last year. So after 2 rises still firmly behind the curve.

At that point one must ask if this makes economic sense. There will be different circumstances for everyone here.

Also different for anyone about to join but they should appreciate that economically their circumstances will degrade after entry rather than improve which is the general reason one take's a job in the first place.

Another factor is that as we know the management monitor this site perhaps we should not set our expectations too low. After all, if all we expect is a marginal rise and seem to have resigned ourselves to it, they have advance notice that it is accepted.

[emratty]

Just as we all start talking about how much the pay rise will be TC announces that we need to make $100 million in cost savings!! but on the other hand EK will announce a profit in excess of $1 Billion.
A 20% pay rise will be nowhere near the cost of living increase but i agree with the last two posts that it will be nothing even close to this figure.
The resignations this year have been low and i think the mismanagers have become complacent about this, time will tell to see if this continues over the next few months.

[mensaboy]

The worst is yet to come. Our pay rise will be minimal and of course it will not in reality be as much as the company touts it to be. I don't know how they will attempt to conceal their deception this year, since they have already used the following:

Pay stops at chocks on.
No pay for sims.
No more grd trng days, do it on your own time, thank you very much.
Pay based on scheduled block times and not what really happens.
Poor Per Diems.
Flight pay scam.
35 days Reserve every 9 months, against the will of the pilot group.
30 days Leave guaranteed versus the 42 contractual days.
No pay for Leave, basically you just get a guaranteed series of off days.
An ever increasing amount of accomodation issues.
Consistent schedule manipulation to the detriment of pay as well as days off.
Below acceptable standards for FTL's plus pairings that are ridiculous or simply not crewed properly.
No response to the massive devaluation of the Dirham wrt to other currencies.

I have to admit they are clever in the short term but it will bite them in the arse soon enough. I am worried hearing from so many FO's about their plans to depart Dubai at the first opportunity This does not bode well for EK in my opinion.

And now the claim that we don't need the 500+ pilots this year?? Are they predicting that their recent roster manipulations will get that much more work out of us? Goodness I hope not.

I say this with all sincerity and knowing full well that it might adversely affect my working conditions in the future........... ''If you are living in a decent country or working for a decent airline, then do your homework carefully before making a decision.'' I have no agenda other than to tell people considering making a huge career and family decision, the facts about EK. Obviously some will choose to believe this is the place to be, I hope it works out. You are most welcome here.

The past attractions of having a reasonable schedule, living in a good place, being appreciated for a job well done, making some extra cash through property investments, making decent money....... are gone.

We all have only 3 options after coming to EK, which every single pilot I know has considered.
1. Stay indefinitely and put up with the continual decline of your T&C's.
2. Become an expat elsewhere by joining as a DEC.
3. Go back home and start all over at the bottom of some seniority list.

[GMDS]

Mensa, you forgot another option, close to No.1 though:

- work considering how EK values you and your job.
I think that is how a lot of us work today - we don't give a rodents back side about punctuality, fuel, customers, tire or brake wear, if you friends choose to fly EK or not, etc. etc.
We just do our job to the minimum of what is expected, press 2 if we feel tired, don't pick up the phone on days off, and keep on informing very accurately the lads back home about our T&Cs to help their decision making, keep out CVs updated ....

It doesn't show right away, but many of us have been working with other outfits where suddenly arrogance prevailed and TC, believe us, it hits each and every mismanager sooner or later. And it really and eternally hurt each and every one right in his weakest spot: His overboosted EGO.

[AA717driver]

This issue has shelved my plans for applying at EK. I'd rather shop my G550 rating around.

Sorry I doubted you, Ironbutt57!

Cheers and good luck all!

TC
(No relation to the "other" TC... :suspect: )

[Guns-A-GoGo]

For those of us considering joining the party, can you answer a couple of questions;

1. It has been posted that the annual bonus(or what ever it is called), would be announced on or about the end of Feb. Has it been announced, and how much was it?

2. There is much talk of an annual raise. Over the past couple of years, when was that announced, and how much was it?

3. What is the bottom line on the 42 days of vacation? I know that it has been discussed extensively about it being reduced to 30 days. It has also been discussed that the excess days would be deferred to next year. What is the final outcome of this?

I have been following the changes in the company, or what is posted on this forum, pretty close. I am still up in the air about making a move from an OK job at a regional. Trying to sift through the BS to the truth is tough sometimes. Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

Guns

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

For those of us considering joining the party, can you answer a couple of questions;

1. It has been posted that the annual bonus(or what ever it is called), would be announced on or about the end of Feb. Has it been announced, and how much was it?

2. There is much talk of an annual raise. Over the past couple of years, when was that announced, and how much was it?

3. What is the bottom line on the 42 days of vacation? I know that it has been discussed extensively about it being reduced to 30 days. It has also been discussed that the excess days would be deferred to next year. What is the final outcome of this?

I have been following the changes in the company, or what is posted on this forum, pretty close. I am still up in the air about making a move from an OK job at a regional. Trying to sift through the BS to the truth is tough sometimes. Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

Guns

1.This years will be announced with the years financial results, usually in April. Your guess is as good as mine habib. With the ever declining $/dirham its worth less this year anyhow, if we get the same as last year.

2. It was a complex load of bollox last year, 6% on basic, whic included 3% annual anyhow. Then if you work up to the overtime limit, you could get the percentage up to 19%. However, as many others have said, with rampant inflation, makes littel difference anyhow.

3. You are contracted to 42 days a year, its in your contract. However, the company only guarantee 30 days :yuk: Most have been getting their 42 days, but not all. I think only 12 unused days can be transferred to next year, you lose anymore.

Your choice Habibi, many are going to leave after the bonus is paid. Many have had enough, don't be fooled by the gloss and BS.

SyB :zzz:

[Guns-A-GoGo]

thanks for the info. It greatly helps.


Guns

[Pixy]

Asian labour is being deterred from coming to the UAE

http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-32364520080308

There will be no un pegging of the Dirham. The Americans and the IMF cannot let that happen or the Dollar will collapse.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/business/2008/March/business_March174.xml&section=business

Gulf Inflation is on a Roll. It will get worse. EUR to 1.60 Oil to $120?

http://www.gulf-news.com/business/Economy/10195624.html

Why would anyone risk coming here until this nightmare scenario plays out beats me. :confused:

[Guns-A-GoGo]

Let me rephrase what I said, and attempt to say what I mean.

There is always a greener pasture. That being said, when I started flying I always thought that whoever was flying whatever that was bigger had a better life. Flying bigger equiptment, those with the bigger guns, or those that went across the pond had a better life. I still believe this is somewhat true. I have a descent life in the states. I make a descent wage, and get treated descent. The people who would sell their soul to the devil, for my job, I would be quick to point out the downside to it all. This is what I mean by sifting through the BS.

Lets say that I move to Dubai, and progress along normally. In 7-10 years I am sure that both of my "buckets" would be nearly full. I would probably have much to say on the negative side. The upside is the obvious, bigger equiptment, more money, and getting to financial independance qucker. The downside is also obvious.

There is much info to research in this forum. Getting the full picture is of the upmost important for those of us trying to decide should we make the leap. Yes, it is a leap of faith somewhat, but so was going to a regional @ 40 and qualifying for food stamps.

Thanks to all for the info.

Guns

[TangoUniform]

Guns,
There is always three aspects to any job.
1)compensation
2)Quality of life
3)Security
Whenever ONE of these becomes weak, it can be the start of looking for something better. When two factors become weak, it can be the actual motivation to actually leave. When all three are factors, GO, don't be the last one to turn out the lights.

One thing about EK, job security for an airline is excellent (unless you screw the pooch somewhere). With over $30 billion of metal on order, the security is there.

Numbers one and two are in play at EK for a number of pilots. But there are some that find all three very suitable. It all depends on what part of the world you call home.

And time for me to take a hike over to the clinic for a pysch checkup, I agree with Mesaboy.
TU

[schismatic]

Price ceiling to fuel food supply crisis

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Commodities/10196074.html

This will be interesting to watch. Saw this in Zimbabwe last year as their inflation got out of control. Result was nothing in the shops.

Obviously this has not reached the crisis levels that Zimbabwe achieved but essentially its the same thing. If prices are restricted, quality and variety are reduced.

I have some great healthy recipes for beans......

[greenhopper]

I have found that filling my bucket here to be a much harder experience and going by the economic indicators it will get harder still as inflation here is getting out of hand,
I will wait to see what kind of pay increase will be awarded if any ,doubting the fact that it will beat inflation so therefore it is going to cost me more to live here. I am sure the company will bank on the fact that $120 oil will bring about the pilot redundancies that will send applications this way,
So I am left with the choice, live here with a high cost of living that restricts your quality of life (the reason why I moved here) or throw in the towel and leave,

[mensaboy]

Dear Oakape,

Let me quote you now,

''Perhaps they are holding back as many airbus guys as they can, because they will need them for the A380. I am assuming that the transition from A330/340 to the A380 will be shorter than from the Boeing.''

How thoughtful of you to make another excuse for the company to continue an insane policy. Even the company didn't try to pass that theory off on us, its just too far out in left field. How did your DEC interview go last summer?

You made 2 assumptions from your last post, which are wrong on both counts.
1. I never stated that a DEC policy for ALL airlines is necessarily a bad thing. At EK it is a bad thing simply because there was and still is, ample FO's ready for upgrade. There are various airlines out there that simply cannot crew aircraft without hiring DEC's.
2. I never said I would join as a DEC. I simply stated that pilots at EK have 3 options (generally speaking) after being here a few years.


Thanks for searching my posts though, its encouraging. If you are having issues with your past decisions I can't help you with that, sorry.

I would prefer though if someone who thought logically and rationally would discuss or even counter my views. I have no heartache with being wrong, and I will admit it when I am. I don't presume to think I know all the answers but in this case, wrt the DEC policy I have been consistent ......... it is a foolish and self-defeating policy of EK. Thanks again for bringing it back to the forefront, it was something many pilots had put out of their minds in light of the recent further decline of our T&C's.

[schismatic]

Oil hitting $108 today. Ouch.

Essentially its a reflection of the USD and the US economy.

Anyone thinking that inflation is not increasing dramatically is simply blind.

Standby for the UAE to hike prices of Petrol and Diesel and then we can add another 10-15% to whatever inflation we have already.

[disconnected]

Talking about a possible de-pegging.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10196533.html

Won't be happening anytime soon though. In the mean time the dollar will plunge.

.....More inflation.

[ekpilot]

Fast food chains in the UAE have hiked prices by up to 30% over recent months

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/513403-fast-food-price-hikes-hard-to-swallow

When they increase it's always by 20% and more. This place is just becoming a big joke. No protection on any front. Soon we will have to pay to go to work. Watch and see!

Keep Discovering :ok:

[Sheikh-It-Easy]

According to news reports, the single biggest worry for the UAE government this year is, INFLATION.

[MTOW]

This place is just becoming a big joke.(Intentionally missing your irony), I'm not finding much to laugh about anymore.

[Dropp the Pilot]

Pool service company blithely informs me today that instead of 400 dirhams a month it will be now 500 dirhams a month, thank-you very much.

I won't miss the 100 dirhams but what are the chances that the little swab actually standing in the sun with the hose and the brush is getting one, single dirham more this month than he ever has?

If there's a scandal here that's where it lies. If you really started thinking about it you'd never stop throwing up.

[mensaboy]

Depegging or revaluing the Dirham............. just in time for EK to claim it to be our pay raise.

[777Contrail]

Looking at the financial news coming from the USA, a slip of another 30% over the next 12 months wouldn't be too far off.

I read the book, Rich Dad's Prophecy, by Robert Kiyosaki some years ago.

The next 4-7 years will be interesting for the US$.

Depegging must happen sooner rather than later, or the local economy will slide with that of the USA.

[disconnected]

Euro touching 1.55 now.
Oil at a record
Gold back at record levels
Dow and S&P drifting ever downwards.

There will be small pullbacks along the way but the trends are strongly established.

Is very ugly. More and more inflation to come............

[Trader]

WHAT--only now is inflation an issue for the government????? In EVERY Western (sic) country inflation is the NUMBER one enemy of the government/monetary body. Most have target to keep it below a threshold of 2-3% - above the target (or getting close) results is endless steps to tame it. Why? Because the 70's and 80's taught an important lesson regarding inflation - it KILLS an economy and is extremely difficult to deal with after the fact.

If the UAE et el think they are any different they are sadly mistaken. If they do not deal with the issue their thriving economy will not last too long.

[sexdriven]

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/ECO_140043.html

[disconnected]

Food discounts based on race and nationality?

Discrimination, racism, facism all alive and well in the Middle East!
All the more reason to come and get a job here then.....

How stupid. :ugh:

[Cyberbird]

... and it's worth to notice -
the massive inflation (conservative guess of more than 30% of the Dirham value in the last 4 years alone) is also wiping out most of the recent gains of the real estate assets,
So - if you want to sell your sandy place & transfer Your money into a civilized country - with future perspectives /unlike the sinkin' ship Dubai UAE / with out-of control spiralling costs - due to incompetent government :bored:
- there will be a really bad awakening in the not so far future!
and the so happily posted "70-80 % gain in real estate" is just a virtual figure" just happening in the "detached Dirham World" - as there might be just maigre 25-30 % gain left, after subtracting the massive inflation over the last years - unless You want to sit the rest of Your life in crappy JBR, sandy Palm, in Springs or the Arabian ranches - i'm glad i sold there last year -
and i will NEVER look back or regret it - Scouts honour!
The last one switches of the light - please !!!:ugh:

[Snake man]

Taken from the 7 Days today:

Nationals to get food discounts
Last Updated : Wednesday 12 Mar, 2008 -
The UAE is considering a plan to provide its citizens with discounts on 14 food items, gasoline and cooking fuel to help offset inflation, the head of a consumer protection body said yesterday.

The UAE cabinet is studying the plan, which will allow UAE nationals to buy rice, bread, tea, sugar, milk and other basic food items at low cost, said Jamal Al Saeedi, executive manager of the Emirates Society for Consumer Protection. “There is too much inflation and it is hitting households,” Saeedi said yesterday. “People cannot live without these items so we are looking for a way to reduce the costs.”
The plan would benefit only UAE nationals, who comprise about a fifth of the 4.5 million population. They will be provided with cards to be used at 16 co-operative supermarkets to be eligible for the discounts.

SM

[777Contrail]

:(Just when you thought the UAE cannot think of any more bloody stupid laws!

Now one that will discriminate again, some more, against the 80% of the people that makes the place work!:*

When the majority of subjects in the castle are discontent, the castle will fall............:(

[GMDS]

Subsidies on basic food items for only specific individuals is
a base of RACISM and APARTHEID.
The Sheiks just tore off their masks.

[Snake man]

Plus this one from the Arabian Business. It goes back a few months, but is applicable now.
Wages 'just one issue' for UAE

by Joel Bowman ([email protected]?subject=ArabianBusiness.com: Wages 'just one issue' for UAE) on Thursday, 22 November 2007


Debate over the decision by the UAE government to grant employees a massive pay raise represents just one facet of the natural uncertainty of an emerging economy in its infancy, according to one presenter at the DIFC Week conference in Dubai.

The government of the UAE yesterday announced a 70% increase for government employees as part of its 2008 budget in an effort to combat inflationary pressure on low- and middle-income families.

At $9.5 billion (34.9 billion dirhams) the federal government's budget is the largest ever and represents the biggest increase year-over-year, up 20% from the 2007 number.


SM

[5star]

Indeed. I can't believe the headline in the GN today. :rolleyes:
This is another slap in the face of most expats and workers over here.
well...I guess the locals are the ones who need it the most after their 70 percent pay rise...:ugh: I guess this is their own version of helping the poor out there.....

[schismatic]

Dollar and Dirham continue to set record lows
Oil at record highs
Inflation at record highs for Dubai

Now Abu Dhabi is setting records for most vehicles involved in a traffic accident.

Bigger, better, faster (especially on the roads) and taller.

We have it all! - Come and join the fun!

[Rabbitwear]

Well the locals need cheap fuel , has anybody got the fuel flows for a ferrari and a hummer. they should all get ID 90 travel on Emirates I mean its there airline.
I just hope the local pilots set up a table of cheap food at the CBC for the poor people flying their slave ships.

[McGreaser]

Looking at this from the other side of the coin, imagine if our respective governments could give us a 70 % payrise and subsidies on certain items. Man, l don't know where u guys are from but you don't see that a lot these days if not never. So from the local perspective they are looking after their people like any responsible govt would. Call it whatever you like l wouldn't give a rat's behind if the expats in my country didn't get enough to get by. Moreso if they where the majority. Inflation in the UAE is just our problem as expats which we can moan about in the paper or on Pprune. Honestly expecting our "hosts" to do something about it when they are still flooded by blue eyed job seekers is a bit far fetched. When it suits them a respectible payrise will be in order.........and as far as l can see it will be the usual bits and bobs each year just to keep people working.

Yes, the media will say people are leaving the Sandpit but number is still minute to cause any improvement in the salaries.

At this moment l wish l was an Emarati............:)

[schismatic]

McGreaser you make a point but I thought the general consensus was that discrimination was not conduct becoming of gentlemen.

If the world decided that suddenly it was, who would be the ultimate losers?

I think looking after your citizens is admirable but where does the line get drawn? If it is continually relaxed in every facet of life it would ultimately result in anarchy by citizens without any notion of responsibility towards others.

Oh I forgot...history taught us just that...hence we decided it was conduct unbecoming. I believe the process is known as civilisation....

[5star]

McGreaser,

You completely miss the point here. Remember that it was their idea to build a mega monster project in the middle of nowhere. Without the expats and workers they would still be riding their camels.
What they do is discrimination and some might call it racism.

From where I come, government programs are not related to nationality nor skin color. They are targeted to the ones who need it the most...
I do not consider myself in that category but I can assure you that the last group who need it are the locals over here.

After being here for a considerable time, most of us are still in disbelieve over all the practises over here...other good suggestions for them : VAT for non-emirati? Income tax for expats... bring it on...

interesting to see what will happen the next few years...seems to me like a big house of cards in a way...

[GMDS]

McGreaser

Imagine for a second a country like ********* (set in any one to your liking, i.e. Denmark, Israel etc. etc.) giving subsidies on basic foods only to nationals, leaving out non nationals like ******** (set in any group to your liking, i.e. asylum seekers, Palestinians etc. etc.).
Now picture the uproar in this region and the words chosen for such a behavior. And rightfully so. :yuk:

It seems though that concerning basic foods they will do it through cooperatives where any resident can go and buy. That would be the way to go, allthough i still think that by subsidising stuff you only fight the symptom and not the root of inflation.

[Sheikh-It-Easy]

The Govt. has ordered the price freeze on 16 basic food items at 2007 values available at certain stores in an attempt to curb inflation.

Also, cement and steel is exempt from customs duty to try and reduce pricing pressures on the building industry.

Something is being done, but a nice big fat salary increase would be even better to deal with all this.

;)

[5star]

LR 3,
Spot on.....

Keep discovering.... :yuk:

[disconnected]

Gold hits $ 1000 per ounce
Oil at $110 per barrel
Euro at 1.56
$200 billion pumped into a market that continues to fall.

Anyone not convinced that the inflation in the UAE is only just beginning is in denial. Either they unpeg or they collapse.

Until they decide, they have made it quite clear who will pick up the tab. To resort to such overt discrimination shows the level of fear and who will be sacrificed as certain asset classes collapse.

Still looking for a job paid in USD or Dirhams? You need your head examined.

[Flying Spag Monster]

Keeping food prices at 2007 levels has to be paid for by someone if not the consumer. If the co-ops recieve subsidies then this is pro inflationary by putting more money into the system. If the co-ops wear the costs then expect the quality of product to fall. (Zimbabwe did the same thing...). Dropping the import duties on cement and steel allows the construction companies to maintain their margins, the money stays with them instead of the government, it is still in the money supply system therefor no change to inflation, just the price of cement and steel. (Who owns the construction companies??) 70% pay rise to 'selected' workers and food cards...all these measures mentioned are not designed to combat inflation. Less money spent on food leaves more money left over for big screen TVs etc, pro inflationary spending as the money is still in the system. There have been no measures announced to combat inflation, only measures to keep the locals happy so they don't get restless. This quite clearly indicates the intentions of the authorities towards those it needs to keep happy and those it doesn't need to care about...

[777Contrail]

It is quite stupid for ANY ruler ANYWHERE not to look after the majority of people under his/its protection.

Be they from here or from the otherside of the globe. They are still the bulk of the people, without which the castle walls will crumble.

It IS blatant discrimination based on nationality - and it sucks!

[disconnected]

CNN:

Gold hit $1,000 an ounce for the first time ever Thursday morning. Oil is slouching towards $111 a barrel. And the dollar hit a 12-year low against the yen and a new record low against the euro. Can you say inflation?

Actually, it's worse than mere inflation. The combination of rising commodity prices and the weakening growth forecast for the economy has people worried about 1970s style stagflation. I hope Bernanke can dig up a pair of old bell bottom pants. Do the hustle!

[ekpilot]

Here are some fact about inflation:

The cost of power generation is set to shoot up by at least 100 per cent in the next two years making electricity an even more expensive commodity, industry sources told Emirates Business.

http://www.business24-7.ae/cs/article_show_mainh1_story.aspx?HeadlineID=3943

[Jet II]

The cost of power generation is set to shoot up by at least 100 per cent in the next two years making electricity an even more expensive commodity

to be fair, even if you doubled it, electricity would still cost less than I was paying in europe

[menard]

Jet II

It still doesn't make it fair.

Oh yeah, I should be happy to pay 1000 dollars for a slice of bread, it's cheaper than on the moon!

Jet, nobody is happy with 20% inflation, specially when salaries don't follow.

Always compare your situation to the worst!!!! Come on.

[Cyberbird]

@ LR 3 - Spot on, mate!

"So, yes they(the locals)may get paid more then you and yes that is racism but one day you will be able to leave this stinking pile of crap and go home to your beautiful country and leave this hole to the people that deserve it.
Don't worry about what others are making.
Just worry about yourselves and plan for your escape one day"

Yeeep - that's it - property sold already, SUV wiil be advertised @ spinneys soon - i leave this crappy place asap. to the camel-sha**ers!:}

[GMDS]

Very sound conclusion SNAM, staying is better than getting stuck in the sandpit right now.

but maybe things will revert and go the opposite direction... who knows.

No way, at least in the mid term.

Unless the flying experience (in EK or even EY) is really that interesting/valuable from a professional point of view...

Well, it might have been so. The aircraft and destinations are still nice. But we're now more often than not confined in a torpedo tube 70 meters away from the cockpit and 300+ "nice"passengers in between, toilets always occupied and you can't even SIT!!!!!! .....
and the layovers are just that -> lay completely shattered to overcome ridiculous sleep patterns and advice from the company that makes any medically trained shiver ....

Again, sound decision not to get stuck in this outfit (which could still be great with just a teeny little bit of effort from above)

[ekpilot]

UAE transport firms have called for government action over skyrocketing diesel prices, which have increased by 175% in the past three years, it was reported Tuesday.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/514102-transport-firms-protest-diesel-price-hikes

175% pay increase would be nice... if they can do it why can't we? Afterall we provide the services... they have to pay for it :E

Keep discovering!:ok:

[disconnected]

The Dollar is showing some signs of stabilisation due to radical movements by the Fed to save the markets and economy collapsing completely. The USD came very close to a meltdown on Monday.

However from the point of view of inflation, this means very little. Prices have risen and will not go down. It is now built in and the 2008 inflation figures for the UAE will be much higher than the 11% of 2007 regardless of the dollar movement from hereon.

Are we going to see an increase in salary of around 30% to account for this and bring our salaries back to a neutral level of a year ago? I doubt it. Recession is here, times are hard and airlines will feel it. EK is counting on continued low cost recruitment and will minimise the salary increase based on this possibility. With oil at the current levels they will have to provision for recovery of this cost in the next financial year. This is the burden that we will be made to bear.

[schismatic]

Dollar recovery over. Euro back at 1.58

The Fed is running out of options. They are powerless to prevent the inevitable and are resorting to lies and "optimism".

Inflation and decreasing salaries are here to stay.

[furbpilot]

but not me...

[flareflyer]

Furbpilot............

where are you going?????

I was thinking to open a shisha bar somewhere in calabria...............

:p

Flare

[7Q Off]

It is just like in argentina were inflation is 20/25 percent and the gob try to make me belive that we have an inflation of 8 percent. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::(:(:(:(:(

[furbpilot]

Where I'm going....?...mhhhh... shisha bar.... Calabria...where is it? Me from India...what about Mumbai?

[Cityliner]

Seeing the $ going into an unstopable downturn I wonder about the cost of living in DXB.
A familiy of 3, 2 adults + one baby approx 1year when coming to DXB.
I ve been to DXB last in 10/06 and still found prices for food very fair compared to here (germany)
What costs do I have to expect these days for food, EPC, Gas and s.o.
I know it all depends on the choosen lifestyle.
I would appreciate any Information or hints on this topic, as the $ turns out to be one of the biggest issues for an european coming to Dubai.

Thx in advance

[schismatic]

Cityliner are you blind??
Check out the thread on Inflation.

And think very carefully before coming...

[MrMachfivepointfive]

@ Cityliner
Been here for the best part of a decade and the bang for the buck still checks out. A kilo of Argie-steak in the supermarket is still half the price compared to Germanistan. A taxi ride a fifth. Same for gas. Besides, moving heavy metal for Sheikh Ahmed beats riding CRJs for CLH.
Lass Dich von den Heulsusen hier nicht ins Bockshorn jagen. Die haben ihre eigene Agenda. Je weniger Leute anheuern, desto hoeher der Markwert der Anwesenden.

[buboso]

Ciao SNAM, i used google to translate, this is the result:

Do the crybaby here is not to Bockshorn hunting.
They have their own agenda. The less people hired,
The higher the market value of those present.

ciao bubi

[MrMachfivepointfive]

and there are people who say that one day online translators will revolutionize the way the world does business. Second part is almost correct. First part does not have a direct English meaning. Losely translated: Don't let the crybabies send you into a dead end.

[menard]

Cityliner, just come and find out.

And, if things don't turn the right way for you here.

You will know who's face to break.

zi grass zalwayz lookz greener in ze neiberz backyaaaard.

Shuuuuuuusss.

[5star]

Cityliner,

Prices over here in the mean time close to the prices in Germany.
Veg. might be a bit cheaper if you buy local stuff.
The thing that frustrates me the most is that most of the vegetable stuff has no flavor. Don't know why.
Ooh yeah : meat. Forget your bratwurst. Pork is so expensive over here. I think 50% more than in Germany.

Gas still cheap compared to EU-Land (controlled by government).
Most cars cheaper over here ( there is no VAT, so that is the difference I think).
And... there is no such thing as Lidl, Aldi or Metro over here. NO COMPETITION on prices. At times frustrating.

But I understand your reasoning. If you're flying cityline and you did not pass LH DLR test, coming here might be the only chance of getting heavy time. If you did pass it then you must be joking that you are considering coming over here. (I do know the conditions at LH).

Not so many Germans here with EK (a lot more at EY). Don't know why. With the dollar woes I must conclude they are very clever....

[ekpilot]

Well it is so bad now that even the violence level is going upward. I can feel it with people every day. Streets, shopping malls, roads, bank everywhere you go you feel it. People are more intense, more aggressive, they feel the pressure of being trapped here with nowhere to go since they left what they had builded for years in their home country to come here for an opportunity to make money. The reality is that they end up in the same or worst situation then back home with the hurdle to be stuck in this place. I have to say that in the last year i felt it too. This place is not what it used to be and the worst is that it is not improving. On the contrary i feel it is going the wrong way big time.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/515544-uae-inflation-affects-nations-security

"Inflation has affected many expatriates, consumers and traders," he said. "There have been cases of violence and this affects our security."

Keep Discovering :ok:

[Jet II]

Well it is so bad now that even the violence level is going upward. I can feel it with people every day.


maybe - maybe not.

i've never seen any violence here and even if it is going up it is still infinitesimally less than where I came from (UK)

so everything is relative :ok:

[menard]

Comparing to something worst may make you feel better, but it doesn't make EKpilot statement invalid!

Fact is a fact.

More violence, yes!

Less than in other places, yes....

But still increasing violence!

Good or bad? depends how deep your head is in the sand.

[Jet II]

Sorry to disappoint you but my head ain't in the sand or up my ar*e.

And what 'facts' are these?

if you think the UAE is a violent country then I humbly suggest you get your head out of the sand.

[dubble_dubble]

UAE is not violent. Compared to USA , europe, even Canada. I lived there for 14 years....no knifes no guns, no ppl smoking pot in the corners, no drunkness in public, etc etc I live in Canada right now, and I have to say that i have seen some very very disturbing things. I live in an expensive/rich neighbourhood btw. My car's stereo got stolen PARKED ON MY DRIVEWAY!

Ive had to call the cops a couple of times b.c of kids smoking pot roaming up and down my street:=

At least not as violent or even close to other (developed) parts of the world

dbl

[ekpilot]

Guys i'm saying that the tensions are building. Not saying there is war out there and that it is unsafe. Read the article. That's what i mean. As for what i feel everywhere it is the pressure on people. If you don't feel it, maybe you should get out of your house. One thing is for sure people are not the same as 10 years ago around here. I used to live in Canada as well. The difference is you know what's going on around you in Canada. Here you read the gulf news and everything is ok with no problems. I love it.

Keep Discovering:ok:

[menard]

Oh, If smoking pot, or stealing a car radio is violence...

I give up then...

Dubble_

There is violence everywhere, INCLUDING Dubai.

As for teenagers smoking pot......Peace man!!!!!

[disconnected]

LONDON, England (CNN) -- The Gulf may still be booming but inflation - and skyrocketing prices - is making life tough for the workforce.

Working in the Gulf is less profitable for expatriate workers because of inflation

Many expats initially drawn by the region's tax-free salaries and high standard of living are now feeling the effects of inflation in high rent and living costs. All this is making work in Dubai, Qatar and the surrounding countries a less attractive proposition than it was a few years ago.

"The working population here is growing restless and the reasons are obvious," said David Westley, Editorial Director at ArabianBusiness.com. "Inflation has become a real issue across the region... salaries have risen but they haven't risen as fast as inflation, which in real terms means you've had a pay cut," he continued.

This means workers are finding it harder to save money and are experiencing a decrease in their standard of living. Add to that a lack of key social infrastructure like schools and some of the major incentives for people to stay in the region are disappearing.

ArabianBusiness.com recently conducted an online survey which found that more than two thirds of workers who responded were more inclined to look for another job this year than in 2007.

Off the record, even EK recruiters admit there is a serious problem. Lots of job browsers, but many rejecting the final offer. A few are foolish enough to fall for the hype and distorted facts they get told on interview but the more savvy see the potential pitfalls and real problems and steer clear.

[disconnected]

The USD is now within a hair of 1.60 on the EUR. I remember when the "Pro's" boldlly claimed that the Europeans would take action when it was at 1.50.

The point is the USD is doomed to fall a lot more. The country would be bankrupt if it was a company and no-one wants to do business with a company that looks wobbly.

The effect for us in the UAE is to expect even more rampant inflation unless some sort of revaluation or de-peg of the Dirham takes place.

Not likely however in the immediate future for a number of reasons, not least political. The Americans need a low dollar. The Fed are actively seeking this, though trying to control the fall to avoid panic and a large overshoot of where they need it. Here in the UAE, we go down with it and are indirectly now paying for American excesses. That's right, by virtue of the devaluation of our salaries we are paying the bills for America, and shackled to this by the Dirham peg.

I resent working for those who elected a monkey for a president and paying for his illegal and ill-considered war. But those are my views so I'll move on.

Oil now at 115 means aviation is going to suffer badly. Its not likely to recover with further dollar decline. US carriers are collapsing and more will fall. Inflation in the US is, and will get even more, serious. Aviation is the first luxury to economise on. High oil prices and lower passenger loads. No-one needs to think to hard too figure out where all this is heading.

Back in the UAE we can expect minimal salary increases, rampant inflation and longer hours as the company milks this situation for all its worth. We have been warned.....

[ekpilot]

As we can see

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Economy/10205958.html

Keep Discovering:ok:

[TangoUniform]

Who are the pilots that are actually stupid enough to come to this inflationary environment? Are they that desperate? Can they not extend the numbers and trends to a position 2 years ahead?

I guess they are as stupid as someone who would criticize them and he himself is still here in this inflationary enviornment. It's called airline job stabilization, compared with other parts of the world.

[TangoUniform]

Schismatic,
I completely understand your situation. But do you believe that the guys joining now live in a complete bubble of ignorance? Do you honestly believe that they have left stable companies and countries to come here? They have come from failed carriers, no opportunities other than RJ captain, much greater deterioration of T&Cs than what we have experienced, worse political enviornment perhaps, lost retirements and pensions, etc.

All have valid reasons for coming here and most probably would not if there were better alternatives, FOR THEM. They might not have the wide body jet time or whatever, like you. So for them, they may be doing exactly what you are, coming in, get the command and a few hours and then look for a better opportunity. The days of "womb to tomb" airline jobs are all but over, except for maybe UPS, FedEx, BA, Air France and a few others. But 10-15 years to any command at those places.

I guess what I'm saying is, you are denigrating your future copilots by implying that they are stupid for doing what you are still doing. Five more years or less for you-five years or less for them: what's the difference? It's no harder for you to "untangle" here than it is for them to leave their country, enviornment, comfort zone, and move family and belongs here.
You know, they already may have their exit plan and are wondering about your intelligence for staying as long as you have with all the wide body command time you have and with all of the other opportunities in the world vying for your experience.:ok:

And to add one more comment on why pilots are still wanting to apply/work here. If you don't think the below doesn't scare the bejeezus out of them.......everywhere!


Delta reports $6.4 BILLION loss for 1st qtr.
Delta reports $6.4B loss in first quarter
Wednesday April 23, 7:35 am ET
Delta says it lost $6.4 billion in first quarter on hefty fuel costs, market value decline ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, says its loss widened in the first quarter to a whopping $6.39 billion due to soaring fuel prices and the steep decline in the company's market value.The results badly missed Wall Street expectations, despite a 12 percent increase in sales.

NWA reports $4.1 Billion loss for 1st qtr.
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Northwest Airlines Corp (NWA.N: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=NWA.N), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=NWA.N), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=NWA.N)), which plans to merge with Delta Air Lines Inc (DAL.N: Quote (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/quote?symbol=DAL.N), Profile (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/companyProfile?symbol=DAL.N), Research (http://www.reuters.com/stocks/researchReports?symbol=DAL.N)), on Wednesday reported a quarterly net loss as the carrier grappled with skyrocketing fuel prices.
The No. 5 U.S. airline said it lost $4.1 billion, or $15.78 per share, in the first quarter, compared with a loss of $292 million a year earlier, while the company was restructuring in bankruptcy and before its new shares were issued.
The results include a $3.9 billion non-cash goodwill impairment charge

[ekpilot]

Al-Mansouri said last month it would be a "miracle" if the UAE meets its 5% inflation target this year.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/518205-dollar-peg-record-oil-prices-adding-to-inflation-misery

A little off target. Remember that not much is transparent around here. The last figures are 11.8% inflation.

UAE inflation rose to at least a 20-year peak of 11.4 per cent last year and will rise slightly to 11.8 per cent this year, the poll showed

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20080505051309

But as discussed earlier it is more like 20% +++.

Keep Discoreving:ok:

[fatbus]

Jan 1/08 most things went up by 20%

[disconnected]

The dollar will continue to fall. America is deliberately doing this to make others pay the bill for their irrational lending, greed and overspending. Hardly surprising it has lost world respect. Its leadership is corrupt and morally bankrupt. Their mantra of democracy is wearing a bit thin as they hardly walk the walk.

UAE will continue the peg. Who cares about inflation - it keeps their property bubble growing and lowers ex-pat employment costs. Also keeps them in the good books with Mr. Bush. If they dumped the dollar peg, he would go down as the second president in power when the american currency collapsed entirely.

Inflation will be officially 20% by the end of 2008. The dollar will not recover for a few years yet. America has not completed its cycle of systematic devaluation.

[schismatic]

A long article but very interesting. UAE will of course follow suit as they will not give up the dollar peg.

Joining EK? - Spend 10 minutes on reading this:

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/292

[ekpilot]

Today we get the bonus for last year's work. It will compensate last year's inflation. But what about this year?

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/519995-record-inflation-to-increase-throughout-gulf

Very interesting times ahead of us.

Keep Discovering:ok:

[disconnected]

I don't think EK pilots have any idea of what is coming over the next 12 months in relation to cost increases.

Even as we get the salary increase of a pathetic 12%, there has been over 15% cost increases during the preceding 12 months. In some areas its a lot more.

We are down 3% since the last pay review even with the latest increase.

The alarming thing is that over the next 12 months inflation will be over 20% even at the most conservative economist estimates. One only has to look at the oil price to see why. Even if oil subsequently drops, the new prices will be set and will not roll back. Traders will try to recover for losses incurred during the high prices.

EK is looking forward to an actual salary reduction in the order of 20% over the next year.

[ekpilot]

Well well

14 to 15% figure about to be released. Imagine the real numbers.

Come to YOUBUY! and Keep Discovering!

[disconnected]

Money Week in the UK now puts Dubai inflation at 20%

Why America's debt makes it a dangerous place - Money Week (http://www.moneyweek.com/file/51205/why-americas-debt-makes-it-a-dangerous-place.html)

The same article doesn't place much faith in the USD or the Dirham if it remains pegged at current rates.

More inflation to come.

[ekpilot]

Dubai has become a really expensive place. Keep posting important info about the cost of living around here. This thread has to be kept updated as much as possible. Prices just do not stop to go upward. Already the pay raise has been wiped out by the 20% +++ inflation

Officially, inflation is 11% but locals say the real figure is almost double that. When it comes to rent and property prices, they say, the rate exceeds 30%

Flying the flag for a new Dubai (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/supplements/dubai/article4360078.ece)

Keep Discovering :ok:

[Jet II]

Dubai has become a really expensive place.

You cant really say that without mentioning where you are comparing it with.

Compared to Europe Dubai isn't expensive, most things are cheaper, but compared to the US then it probably is a bit more expensive.

It's all relative :ok:

[ekpilot]

Well of course everything is relative. But do you agree that if you get 12% pay raise and you have 20% inflation... well relative or not you loose buying power. Relatively it becomes more expensive. If you live in Europe or US, you probably own a house that is probably 3 to 4 times your yearly salary. Here in Dubai you are looking at paying 5-7 times your yearly salary at an interest rate of 7 to 8 % for a house. When basic needs like housing and food are going upward so fast, all I can say is that the place is getting expensive. I can't wait to see where a " FlyDubai " Captain with 2 kids will get for housing around here with the 16K DHS a month. Not a House for sure, just an apartment. For me that's expensive. And that's my point.

[BIKKERDENNAH]

Also hard to swallow is the fact that EK "MAINLINE" only pay 14000 dhs per month.. for its existing pilot workforce who are outside company accom..:{

[pool]

No brainer:
The poor EK guys are already stuck here, so why pay them adequately. The FD newbees still have to be lured in, so give them a carrot that seems fresh from far - but is basically rotten from the start .....
Housing is what will be the main motive to leave earlier than anticipated and will therefore cost the dishdashs more in the long run.

[Jet II]

If you live in Europe or US, you probably own a house that is probably 3 to 4 times your yearly salary. Here in Dubai you are looking at paying 5-7 times your yearly salary at an interest rate of 7 to 8 % for a house. When basic needs like housing and food are going upward so fast, all I can say is that the place is getting expensive.

I can't wait to see where a " FlyDubai " Captain with 2 kids will get for housing around here with the 16K DHS a month. Not a House for sure, just an apartment. For me that's expensive. And that's my point.

But if you are comparing DXB with somewhere else then you have to take the total package into account - not just the housing allowance.

Compared with the UK where your housing costs come out of whatever is left after tax of your total income. So surely you have to compare property prices in DXB with your total income - if you do that then DXB doesn't look so bad.

Of course DXB is getting more expensive, but then so are many other cities throughout the world. If you find one where they pay megabucks and the cost of living is peanuts then let me know - I'll race you there ;)

[hunterboy]

I reckon most pilots own a house 4 to 10 times their annual salary in the UK, depending on how hard they've tried to trade up.(4 times if aged less than 40 or up to 10 times if older than 50)

[ekpilot]

This figure still does not take expatriates into accounts... ADD minimum 10% to this number to reflect the reality of this place. Our buying power keeps slipping and slipping. What is your average cost per month of grocery and restaurants combine to feed your family?

UAE inflation hits new high | Finance and Economy (http://www.ameinfo.com/168572.html)

Keep Discovering :ok: