Please Advise!!

[worriedpvr]

Dear All,
Any advice would be greatly received!
I am currently about to undertake advanced fast jet training at RAF Valley, however i have suddenly realised i do not want to be in the RAF and would like to PVR.
Now without getting into the reasons why i want to PVR (as im sure many of you could name quite a few!!) i would greatly appreciate any advice related to PVR'in but more importantly what i can do once i hit civvi street!

I have been to university and have a 2:1 in a non-engineering degree. I had a sixth form sponsorhsip and uni bursary with the raf and obviously got streamed fast jets. I would definately be interested in a career in the airline world but have no idea where to start?! I would aslo be interested in some sort of apprenticeship in the investment banking world.
Anyway like i said, any info would be greatly appreciated! :O
Cheers
Worriedpvr

[abbotyobs]

Mmm interesting one.
First of all well done with what you have achieved so far.
You will have around 300 hours but with no licence, so what you would need to do if you wanted to leave and fly commercially would be do all 14 ATPL exams at somewhere like Bristol groundschool this takes 6 months min with 2x3 week exam courses, then complete an approved CPL course plus IRME at somewhere like exeter or Leeds.
Then you would be in the same boat as a lot of wannebees on this forum, low houred.
If the credit crisis hits the airlines then it could be tricky to get a job.
Equally, in London at the moment, it is a terrible time to start looking for a financial job.
I have the same uni quals as you and have flown fast jets for 14 years, I have had similar doubts at times, but without doubt I am glad I stuck at it.
Firstly, flying jets is a privilege with not many able to make the grade.
Secondly, you may have made this decision suddenly so maybe it is wise to wait a while rather than do something rash that may effect something that changes the rest of your life.
Why not wait a week and if you feel the same talk to someone on the base who is impartial that could help, perhaps the padre or someone from a different service, if you cannot talk to your course commander/CO.
If you feel the same after a week, and want to call it quits I am sure the RAF would rather keep you than lose you, so you could ask for multis.
There are a lot of good options. Eg Royal Flight/ASTOR etc
Good luck anyhow!

[will fly for food 06]

If this is no duff then pm me. I will be able to help you. But i warn you now, a multi cross over is very unlikely.

[fiveo]

Worriedpvr,

Can you explain why you dont want to fly fast jets in the raf? I'm having trouble trying to work out how you actually got through the selection process?

:confused:

[worriedpvr]

abbotyobs thanks very much for the advice! I have been thinking of this for nearly a month now but havent managed to get around to seeing someone impartial such as a padre, but its a great idea thanks!
I think in the mean time i will have a look at other civvi jobs but wont make any rash decisions as yet.
Ive heard what you have said about being hard to get a job in the airlines and financial sector before so im afraid you may be right!
Would definately be interested in a cross over to multis but i dont think the raf are too keen to allow this to happen unfortunately.
Again thanks for the advice!

[will fly for food 06]

worried pvr is not the first to feel like this. There is alot more than people realise who get nearly all the way through and quit. Especially in the last 2 years!

[fiveo]

Why do people get most of the way there and quit, especially in the last 2 years?

[18greens]

Unless you have a real reason not to fly fast jets, do Valley then PVR.

Anyone can fly an airliner, how many people ever get a chance to fly Hawks?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I cannot bring myself to believe this threas is genuine.

The spelling, the reference to career advice from the padre(!) and the unusual circumstance of having a slot at Valley but not wanting it all of a sudden.. Either OASC have become very poor at their role or there is something fishy about this post.

WWW

[mustflywillfly]

WWW you would be suprised! Seeing the Padre for advice is quite common in the armed services, they are usually the only people you can count on for some non-bias feedback. It's all about having someone to talk to and bounce ideas off. The Military can be very claustraphobic when you are thinking of making a big decision that bucks the "trend".

This thread might be genuine, might not be. For what it is worth, having been there and done that, I would have a bash at Valley and at the very worse you can get chopped. This way you have had a chance to drive the wonderful hawk (a real beauty) and can still have your cake and eat it. An airline will not be remotely bothered that you got chopped from fast jets (or any mil type for that matter). The bottom line is that you have passed a very difficult selection procedure (at least very difficult aptitude tests). Civ aptitude tests are a complete joke by comparison, a total idiot could pass Pilapt or COMPASS. Plus I suspect that the majority of civvy pilots were military rejects or are ex-military anyway and appreciate how very very hard it is to get to your standard anyway.

My only concern is the state of the economy and where we are heading. I am currently in the transitional period between military and civvy street and I must admit to being a little scared about the prospects. Ensure that financially you can take the jump.

If flying is in your blood than that must be the way forward. Investment banking may allow you to have enough money to fly for fun but are you sure that you would be happy sat in an office (at ground level) all day long? Speak to your resettlement staff, I am sure that they will have links into this world (we do in the RN).

Go on, have a bash at Valley! You may like it.

MFWF:ok:

[fade to grey]

I don't much care if this thread is for real or not...however...
you cheeky b*****ds..
18 greens : so anyone can fly an airliner ,huh, I think not friend.
Must fly will fly:I think you will find the VAST majority of civil pilots are not 'military rejects or ex-military', not everyone wants to be shot at in some sand caked s**thole.

Twunts:*

[worriedpvr]

Mustflywillfly, thanks very much for the advice. Think i will definately go and see the padre some time in the new year.
To be honest i hadnt thought about the financial position of airlines at the moment and how that may make it hard to get a job so thanks very much for highlighting that!

In the mean time i think i will have a look at other job options but continue with the raf, like you said i may end up liking it, although i did have these doubts when i was a linton. :bored:

For the all the other guys who are so sceptical; i am real and yes i am having doubts. I think you shld really grow up and take a look at yourselves. Everyone has doubts no matter what they do!

Anyway again thanks to everyone who posted USEFUL advice. Anymore would still be greatly received!

Worriedpvr

[Fireboy]

Couldn't agree more fade to grey, well said.

[AirbourneGSYBOY]

Compass and pilapt could be passed by idiots???????????
Any one can fly an airliner??????????
Your doing a good job of keeping up the idea that was put to me when considering the forces........ all military pilots turn into/are arrogant c*nts.

Those of you out there who fly airliners like myself keep up the hard work!

[Re-Heat]

However inelegantly and undiplomatically it was written above, it is quite true that aptitude tests for the RAF are harder than those (if any) to which applicants to commercial airlines are subjected.

We all nevertheless know there is a great deal of difference in the job, and many ex-RAF cannot and do not adapt to civilian flight operations.

So on that note, it might be more useful to give the OP some decent advice instead of tearing into other posters who consider pilapt easy, which is no doubt the case if you have been successful at Cranwell.


To the OP: good luck. You're not the first.

[mustflywillfly]

Hook, Line, Sinker.

[abbotyobs]

I would agree, give Valley a crack.
The Hawk is wonderful and the first solo around the Isle, is worth staying in for.
Good luck!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

My advice if this is genuine (txt speak and over use of !'s continue to make me doubt it) is to stop wasting tax payers money on your very expensive training and PVR. Clearly you are not going to make it throught Valley never mind OCU with your half hearted levels of motivation. Staying in a while longer merely to log a few wasted hours in a Hawk is selfish and you are taking up a slot that someone else would give their left testicle for.

When you come out you will be nowhere much as far as a civilian license is concerned and will have to start on the Modular route to a CPL/IR and start your ATPL exams. Yours hours thus far will allow the grant of a PPL with minimal training time. Check out the CAA document LASORS for the full run down.

Passing RAF selection will look good on your CV. Compared to a lot of applicants but its not enough to give you anything more than a mild advantage. I would have thought you would need to spend around £40k getting yourself to a position where you can apply to airlines with your own license. The CTC academy may quite like you for one of their placement schemes as and when they are available as their selection procedures seem very close to OASC ones.

Sorry if this is a genuine request. Would you mind Private Messenging me your Cranditz course number so I can verify your bona fides?


WWW

[will fly for food 06]

Good luck with what ever you decide to do. If you got through linton ok on the mighty tuc then you will have no major problems with the exams,cpl and ir. Have you flown in a hawk yet? Its more fun than the tucano and you may even change your mind when you are on it. Just make sure you are 100% with your decision so when you look back in a few years time you have no regrets. The above thread is correct. I did the PPL in around 5 hours but everything else will have to be the full course. Currently looking at a total of 35K. Time wise you should be able to do most of the flying fairly quickly as you have been exposed to long sorties. With the training provider i was with i was able to fly 4 hours a day on the cpl then around 5 hours a day in the sim during the ir.

[C130Dreamer]

Think very carefully!

Some people would give their right nut to be where you are now. You must have a talent to get that far through pilot selection/training. Why throw all that hard work away to sit behind a desk in a bank!!!? Have a chat with someone impartial about your feelings, like the Padre or SMO. If it’s combat that you're not keen on, that's fine, it just means you’re not suited to front line ops. What about the transport wing? Some people believe walking away from the RAF with a heap of heavy jet time is better than fast jet time! Also, think very carefully about a PVR. The aviation industry is small and full of ex mil. The letters PVR during your training will not look good on a CV or sound good in an interview. Better to get chopped than PVR!

Good luck buddy, make the choice that’s right for you.

Dreamer :ok:

[will fly for food 06]

If its a combat issue you will not be offered another cockpit. that is the current policy. Withdrawing from the fast jet training will be big subject in your airline interview. If you can justify and show that you will not do the same during line training etc then you will be fine.

[worriedpvr]

Again, i'd just like to say a big thankyou for all the advice received. I think i am going to give valley a good shot but with the mindset if that by 1st solo im still really not enjoying it then will start talking to people re: either a multi crossover or ultimately pvr.

Thanks so much for the adivce and if theres any other gems of wisdom that people may have it would still be very much appreciated!

[Felix Saddler]

I can't see by the life of me how this guys genuine? How does one get so far without the suicidal desire and determination to get that far in the first place? Completely bemuses me. :zzz:

[will fly for food 06]

Whether this is person is genuine or not. They would not be the first or the last to think like this. It happens more often than people realise.

[Megaton]

If you haven't been through RAF flying training (and I haven't either) you're not really in a position to judge or understand this guy's (or gal's) motives. For some, the continual pressure of the RAF system just weighs them down. For sure, rorting around the A5 at 200' is great fun but military flying training is fundamentally different from the civilian system. Probably great if it's going well but not everyone is suited to the more robust debriefing style, survival training, prospect of lengthy detachments etc. I have met many guys who were relieved when the system finally spat them out before they withdrew themselves.

Give him a break.

[will fly for food 06]

Well said Ham. It looks fun when you see a fast jet fly past you down a valley but the workload in the cockpit is amazing.

[fiveo]

Well OASC cant be doing such a top job as they should be weeding out the ones who are not made of the right stuff. Sorry but Ive no time for wingers, anyone who applies to the RAF should have an idea axactly what they are in for.

Who ever said flying a fast jet was easy :confused:

[mustflywillfly]

Flying around at 420kts and at 250ft AGL can indeed be fun. I was very fortunate to go down that route before being spat out and going rotary. Then that spat me out! There is no accounting for how bods will cope with the Military Flying Training System. I passed OASC and the AIB with reasonable scores and gained very competitive aptitude scores. There is no guarantee though that this means an individual will get through the system.

The MFTS is hard, very hard and unique. Something akin to being in a pressure cooker with many other factors thrown in such as extra duties, miserable instructors, unwritten desirable "chop" rates. The Navy for example has and does and will again chop pilots who have already gained their wings and are on their very last flight of three years worth of training. Sounds unbelievable doesn't it! Also seems like a massive waste of public money, some are even being asked to leave the Navy as there are no alternative branches to go to once chopped. There is simply no other option but to see your dreams fade to nothing, you can't put your hand in the pocket and pay for another flight. You do feel like that axe is waiting to fall from day one. Hats off to all those who do make it.

I know that many, many people would give their left nut to strap into a hawk, pull the visor down and accelerate off into a LL sortie around the Lakes. The work load is massive though and It sounds a bit daft, but you don't really have a huge amount of time to enjoy yourself inbetwen the turning points. A back seat ride is far more preferable (if you don't spend half your time spewing!). I have honestly had more fun in a Cessna 152 flying my old man around a nav route or doing some aeros in a Robin 2160 with my best mate videoing the whole thing in the RHS. As for rotary.....urgh!

Give the OP a break (even if he/she is in the RAF and refers to it as the raf!).

Back to the mince pie and cup of tea...

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Hmm, well I've a passing knowledge of the RAF flight training system and people in it and a mate at Valley at the moment. This series of posts in terms of content, grammar and syntax doesn't ring true with me and as yet there is no Private Message confirming course number..

WWW

[Irish_Stu]

Does smell a bit fishy, I agree. Gotta ask as well though, if it isn't true, why would someone even bother posting a message like that?

[Megaton]

Wy on earth does he have to prove his bona fides to you? Good grief!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Because I don't want time wasting fantasists wasting peoples valuable time. He may be genuine but it smell suspect and bona fides have not been given when asked.

WWW

[Megaton]

Nobody is forced to read any of these threads so I can't see that he's wasting anyone's time except those with time to waste!

Having spent many years correcting grammar and spelling on incident reports and ACRs written by aircrew I would say that his language skills mark him out as being exceedingly authentic! :E

[worriedpvr]

Look guys this post is genuine. I cannot believe people will take time out of their lives to debate whether the post is genuine or not.
The reason i havent given me course number to the people who have asked is that i do not want to put myself in a vulnerable position where someone could work out who i am!
I dont think the RAF would quite appreciate people in the flying training system having doubts , but as many of you have pointed out, many people do!!!

All i want is some advice on what people think is best for me to do etc etc. (not someone correcting my grammar and punctuation!)

So again thanks for all the advice it has definately helped and again, anymore would be greatly appreciated!! :}
Cheers
Woriedpvr

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well my advice is to stop wasting more taxpayers money and leave making space for the person who desperately wants the slot.

If you wish to persue a flying career then find a way of acquiring £40,000 and start selecting a flying school.

Perhaps this might be a question better asked in the Military forum.?

WWW

[Grey'npointy]

Worriedpvr - please pm me. I am in a position to listen and advise.

GnP

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

An Officer with a University education asking a vague question on the Wannabes forum using poor grammar and spelling aroused my suspicions that it might be a troll or similar.

You'd be amazed at what we get. Could this be someone trying to spread rumours about a weak course mate PVR'ing before Valley? PM'ing me brief bona fides would have shut me up straight away but it hasn't happened. Nevertheless the thread remains for all to comment upon.

Personally I think standards must have really slipped.

WWW

[Megaton]

A university education does not imply any standard of written English. I was continually saddened by the extremely bright and talented engineers around me during my first degree who couldn't string half a dozen words together.

As I said before: during nearly 20 years service I came across plenty of extremely talented aircrew who were just rubbish at putting their thoughts down on paper. After OCC, ISS, JCSC, ICSC and ASC one might expect higher standards but in my experience his written skills seem about par for the course for a JP. Can we leave his bona fides alone now?

How about WWW pm'ing me with your IOT course number? :oh:

[No Country Members]

WWW

Because I don't want time wasting fantasists wasting peoples valuable time.


Are you sure this isn't in itself a fantasy on this particular website?!!!

[CarbHeatIn]

Anyone can fly an airliner, how many people ever get a chance to fly Hawks?

Different competencies required for each role.

For example, in the Netjets thread it is stated that the failure rate for the command upgrade course, is significantly higher for ex RAF candidates as a grouping compared to that of candidates with a GA/Airline background.