Trouble Sleeping

[N3000]

Hi

I hold a UK Class 1 medical.

For a while I have been having trouble getting off, and then staying asleep, and perhaps as a result feeling short-tempered, and also feel my libido (my mojo !!) has been low.

I have given up tea and coffee etc, but to no real avail.

I saw my GP and he has diagnosed a low seratonin level, and prescribed Citalopram, which reading the blurb is an anti-depressant.

.......by taking this, have I invalidated my Class One medical?

[Stingaling]

Hmmm tricky really. You shouldn't be taking them and flying and they can be very addictive. However the lack of sleep needs to be addressed, if it is not it can lead to real problems. Get something to make you sleep. In the good old days a few pints of beer would certainly help to unwind if nothing else but that cant be done now of course. The underlying cause needs to be addressed as to the lack of sleep.

[BAMRA wake up]

N3000 I can't help feeling that your doctor is fobbing you off, treating a symptom rather than the cause. I've had similar symptoms from about your age - my doc's suggestion: 'workaholism and stress, take a break'. Takes a bit of getting used to needing less sleep as we get older too. I gave up going to bed early, just ended up having a short deep sleep then lying awake for hours. Try some new enthusiasms/activities, cultivate a personal 'hinterland' outside work - something physical maybe.

Best of luck!

[low n' slow]

Dont know if it helps. I tend to have trouble sleeping, especially when I know I need it, having an early the next day for example. What helps for me is doing some kind of excercise during the day and then staying away from the telly during the evening, ending my day by reading a really boring book. I've read the same page of Franz Kafka's "the process" over and over again the past two weeks and it really works. Once I start yawning I hit the lights and I'm off. But I really need to be careful about it, following the same procedure every night, because once I miss that sleeptrain it seems to take forever before it stops by again. Anything that might catch my interest will keep me awake long enough to make me miss the first chance of falling asleep.
I don't have the same symptoms as you though so your situation does seem to differ. But whatever it is, it never hurts to provide yourself with the best possible ambience, keeping a good sleephygene.

Hope things work out
/LnS

[Loose rivets]

We've all been there, sleep coming at last...then the :mad: alarm goes off.


I wrote this a while back, and I still have some concerns, but it's better than being dog tired before flying.

Zolpidem is very, very fast, and always left me with a clear head the next morning. But only use it for breaking the tiredness loop that you are in.

Do not use Ambien CR for example. The Controlled Release is very good, but not suitable for anyone that needs to be sharp in the morning.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3634600&highlight=zolpidem#post3634600

[Sireh]

I understand that any OTC sleep aids are no no for pilots; the exception being melatonin or valarian. I hope I am wrong, but I remember my AME stating that categorically years ago.

[gingernut]

Reading between the lines, it would apear that your gp may actually be treating you for depression, or at least the symptoms of depression/stress.

Does he realise that you are a pilot, and the implications that this holds for you (and your passengers)?

You need to talk to an aviation doc about this, but I guess you may be grounded.

Previous threads suggest that SSRI's are incompatible with flying, but don't suddenly stop taking them without expert advice.

[Saab Dastard]

I can speak from recent experience on this.

If you are either being treated for depression (however it is worded by your GP / consultant) or taking anti-depressants, then you must inform the CAA aeromedical people with all the relevant details and stop flying if directed to do so.

They require a period of 2 months after stopping the medication (SSRI / SNRI) before you can be considered fit to fly again. I can vouch for the fact that ceasing SSRIs can be an absolute ba5tard. They may require you to meet with a CAA AME before re-instating your medical certificate.

I didn't need to, but it was for a class 2 and I had a letter from my consultant that gave chapter and verse, plus a glowing endorsement of my "fitness to fly". I now have my class 2 back (almost 4 years after losing it), and I will be flying again before the end of the year. :ok:

Good luck - I hope this is just a brief setback for you.

SD

[ELLONNAGUN]

N3000
HI IF YOU ARE IN A GOOD PHYSICAL COND.
WHY DON’T YOU TRY EXERCISING AND STEAM BATH AND NO BEER, WHEN THE EFFECT IS GONE YOU ARE WIDE A WAKE AGAIN:ok:

[N3000]

Gingernut and others

Thanks for your thoughts. I have now contacted the CAA, so the die is cast in that respect.

Hopefully it will sort me out in the short term, then 2 months clean and I will be back at the coal-face.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

[Stingaling]

Certainly will. I think most of us have had health problems at sometime in our careers and the UK CAA are very good in this respect. I good rest away from flying will probably do you good. Wish I could aford to do the same.

Best of luck.

[gingernut]

N3000, good luck and keep us posted.

[Mr. Hat]

3000

is something new happening in your life? Hav you always not been able to sleep? What has changed?

[thrustpig]

Hi N3000,
You are not alone. 2008, year of the good sleep is nearly here.
Several years ago i made the transition from flying regular day patterns, to a mixed day and night operation/ multi-sector/ min-rest operation. My body clock was not happy. It was not uncommom for me to only get 2-3 hours sleep per day during an 8 day pattern. The harder I tried, the lower the quality of the rest achieved until I would get to the hotel at 08:00 local time, wake up 2 hours latter with the ons........Uniform ON, Lights ON, TV on and not know where i was or what was happening until i cross checked the date with the hotel stationary and roster. However, it seemed the harder i tried the more my body would refuse to shut down, so i would go another 8 hours without sleep and report for duty knackered.
This was a problem. My research and experimentation started with quizing senior pilots about there rest techniques. There responces varied from, discipline??? to get a girl friend in each port!!! I also tried the the exercise thing, hot coco, counting sheep, etc. A yoga guru friend then put me on to a relaxation technique with combined listening to a CD and tensing and relaxing various muscle groups. This seems to work well for me especially when combined with a, "I dont really need to sleep" mantra. I hope this helps with your situation.

[Rootie]

The most important cause of insomnia is...The Fear of Insomnia. From a fellow lifelong, insomniac. Sleeping medication? Negative. Melatonin? Affirm.

[Loose rivets]

We've discussed this causing heavy/repetitive dreams though. Not good deep REM.

Now that we know that the non RWM sleep is also important, one should not draw any conclusions about it -- other than you need both types.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241795&highlight=Zolpidem


Fear of sleep making the loop worse. Certainly. I personally find that the more sleep I have, the more I can use...it just gets better.

Not legal but the best for being fresh in the morning.


However, Zolpidem NOT Controlled Release is a life-saver for me. Not approved in CA last Christmas. UK & US okay. Generic $45 /month, but get strong 12.5 and chop it in halves. CRs are good if you can allow about 14 minimum hours. to the throttle.

[Mr. Hat]

3000, mate if you can't get yourself some sleep get some sleeping tablets to ride out the tough times. the last thin you want is to fall asleep on the way to work and kill yourself.

[ElenaDonetsk]

You can also try listening to Baroque music (original, not modernised), or try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRZnyVdV9eY