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Mr. Bloggs
14th Dec 2007, 06:24
I am starting a new thread because all the others are getting weighed down with the same direction.

For one, will ST get voted out? If you are going to do that, may as well restructure the whole AOA.

Whoever is President, he/she will know they don’t have the backing of most members and then you have the non members. When it comes to CC (Contract Compliance), will many do it.

Why do we need the AOA President to tell us we need to do CC. C’mon we are supposedly intelligent people here, can’t we figure it out on our own?

From “The Management”:

We still expect you to answer your phone on O and G days, reduce physiological rest to minimum rest, use discretion when needed to maximum extent possible, 3 man ULH when needed to maximum discretion, acknowledge crew direct so the FDP does not start at the 4 hour mark when delayed, reduce normal rest to min rest, flying the freighter, not sign in for duty when you know there is a change of duty (as your FDP will start), etc

Don’t do any of this. Make Crew Control, GMA, and Holyland work very hard to get the roster covered. Some may even get some overtime.

From the AOA

May we remind all Officers to report roster disruptions, 3 man crewing, minimum rest periods, loss of days off at home, extensions to duty, or any other changes from CoS, Vol 1 FTLs or the RP07 agreement to [email protected] with copies to the flight safety department, when appropriate, via CHIRPS reports? This practice should become the norm for all crew.

If it is a safety concern, CHIRP it.

If you have reduced rest, 3 man, etc tell the AOA and CHIRP it.

If there is no paperwork, there is no problem.

HKAOA:
Mr. GMA, we believe you are reducing physiological rest too often.

GMA:
What do you mean, show me the paperwork and we will look into it.

HKAOA:
It is just word of mouth from our members, we don’t have any paperwork

GMA:
I don’t think we have a problem then.

Every member must start monitoring their own contract and report these situations. The reduce rest, 3 man is happening all the time but pilots are not telling anyone and there is no paper trail.

How many use discretion? If you have to stand down and not use discretion, tell the AOA and CHIPR it (if there is a safety concern). If you use discretion, tell the AOA. Flights are now scheduled very tight and some may need to be tracked to see if they need more crewing. Again there is no paperwork, so there is no problem, so CHIRP it.

The members and the nom members for that matter are the eyes and ears of the AOA and we have to monitor crew control to make sure they are doing it legal. If they know we are monitoring them, they will have to keep it legal or the CAD will be rather upset at the GMA.

Start beating them at their own game within the rules of the AFTL’s. When crews are short, Crew Control, GMA, and Holyland will bend the rules. It is up to us to monitor this and report this to the HKAOA or you do it yourself to the CAD via a MOR (any rank can file a MOR). You must start standing up for yourself.

If you are not willing to stand up and be counted then turn the f***ing lights out when you leave.

You are big boys flying big airplanes; you don’t need the AOA President to tell you this. Just do it.

DFO:
Well Mrs. GMA, are the pilots in CC?
GMA:
Well Mr. R there was nothing from the AOA.
DFO:
Well Mr AOA President, are you in CC because we are cancelling some flights and having difficulty crewing our expansion.
AOA President:
Well no Mr. R, what are you talking about. We said nothing to our members.
Maybe the pilots need a proper pay rise. We are willing to talk.


It’s the holiday season over the next several months and CX will be busy. Start it now and let’s see what happens.

Don’t stick you head out like the old MSS, if you see an opportunity, take it i.e. don’t answer your phone or acknowledge crew direct. Keep it within the rules and show no good will.

Every time there is an agreement, RP or COS coming up for renewal, we must automatically go into CC six months before. Withdraw our goodwill and give the negotiation team some leverage.

OK, rant over. Time for the sound of the Oz bush.

AD POSSE AD ESSE
14th Dec 2007, 07:21
I agree with you Mr.Bloggs!!

No need to be as radical as some members on these forums (slapfaan in mind!!),but there is definately a BIG change needed in the AOA..

I for one..as a member..often feel embarassed let alone hopeless and frustrated as one would expect much more direction from ST and our GC..

For CC to be effective though,everybody needs to pull finger and start doing it...as long as there are G-day workers (doing it for the money)..not much will change!!

Some usefull advice:Before agreeing to work on your G..1st look at what's on the PROFFERING board..the renumeration is usually A LOT more than what you could get from the company for working a G..and you'll be helping out a fellow pilot-in-need...

Nuff said:D

The Management
14th Dec 2007, 08:22
Do what you will.

We will only need to pick 5-10 pilots for various reasons, put them through a D & G process, first and second stage (both will be identical) and have them terminated.

None of the pilots are disputing the latest terminations over the housing.

We will do it, but we will do it differently, but it will be done. You have been warned!

To my Bonus!

The Management

Sqwak7700
14th Dec 2007, 15:30
Good post Bloggs. I agree 100% with what you said. It just pisses me off when some are working so hard to make sure the contract is followed, then some dumb-ass breaks it without so much as a second thought or hesitation. That is really hard to swallow. :ugh:

Westcoastcapt
14th Dec 2007, 17:30
Good morning Gentlemen,

Now is the time for a little common sense. The company is on the ropes and no longer have the upper hand. If I can quote a recent CC comment, " We are desperately short of crews". People are leaving for greener pastures at a significant rate. Some are even quitting before finishing their training. Quite frankly, they haven't a clue what is happening out there.

Management is extremely concerned about any threats of job action with the cabin crew and local ground staff over the medical payments issue. Many of these people can quit tomorrow and make similar wages at a myriad of other jobs, so they have nothing to lose. Moreover, they have the sympathy of the general public who can empathise with their concerns.

The Croft case in the UK confirmed what many of us already realised. We are indeed employed at our home bases and are protected by the labour laws of those particular jurisdictions. This is the real motivation of onshoring and right now CX is in over their head.

As we all know, the best defence is a good offence. CX has no other option but to talk a hard line. However, with rising attrition, floundering employee goodwill, the threat of job action and the potential of legal action in the base areas, CX has a myriad of problems. Imagine the fallout if an employee is fired for simply following the contract that CX had imposed in the first place.

It's going to get interesting. Sit back and enjoy the ride!!

bobrun
15th Dec 2007, 03:50
Couldn't agree more. We need to have the guts and will to make some changes for our future.

jed_thrust
15th Dec 2007, 13:44
BTTT, I say

CYRILJGROOVE
15th Dec 2007, 15:58
Some usefull advice:Before agreeing to work on your G..1st look at what's on the PROFFERING board..the renumeration is usually A LOT more than what you could get from the company for working a G..and you'll be helping out a fellow pilot-in-need...


Top advice dear chap

flap relief
15th Dec 2007, 18:02
Gents,

It may take some time and some condiderable effort! But I believe it is seriously worth considering amalgamating the unions. (See parallel thread). There occurs every so often in a career an opportunity and we have one. It can easily be squandered as many have before this because of greed and self interest.

We have a window that I belive will close next year because all economic factors point to a decline or possibly a recession so we should grab the opportunity. The company has a goal of aligning the pilot body to fly their aeroplanes (in whatever colour scheme) so why don't we get together and provide input in the form of seniority and advancement and other less tangible inputs. If we don't have a say there will be a FCN telling us how it is!

If the lists were combined the average time to command for cx f/os would be reduced significantly while senior ka f/o could have access to the 744fo lifestyle for a few years

It is clearly not an ideal situatuion for all concerned but when is it goig to be ideal?

We should look to working together!