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oerlikon
13th Dec 2007, 20:30
Hi All,

I am looking for a biography on Adolph `Sailor' Malan (the South African pilot who was the highest Allied scorer in the Batlle of Britain). If you have any books or information please pm me,

Thanks

Rollingthunder
13th Dec 2007, 20:46
FRANKS NORMAN Sky Tiger the Story of Sailor Malan
London, William Kimber. 1980, First Edition. (ISBN: 071830487x) Cloth, 8vo - over 7" - 9" tall.

CoodaShooda
14th Dec 2007, 02:33
Just being pedantic but I thought Ginger Lacey was the top scoring allied pilot in the BoB. (?) :confused:

Buster Hyman
14th Dec 2007, 02:36
Uh-oh...this could get ugly....:uhoh:

Blacksheep
14th Dec 2007, 02:44
True, but unfortunately Ginger flew the unglamorous Hurricane and what's even worse was a Sergeant Pilot. He also didn't care much for dogfighting, saying that a fighter pilot's job was to shoot down as many enemy bombers as he had ammunition for. When attacked by fighters he would simply break off and come back for more He111s. So he wasn't a good candidate for the wartime Public Relations scene - but a proper fighter pilot, was Ginger Lacey.

As a Squadron Leader, he was still flying combat missions and shooting down enemy aircraft in Burma when the war ended.

Having said that, Sailor Malan was one tough cookie himself, and he was one hell of a good squadron commander, getting the best out of his pilots. Horses for courses, as always.

Track Coastal
14th Dec 2007, 02:45
A Czech chappy named Frantisek (17 kills)

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mantis/FW/Bob/Aces.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few

Frantisek: http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/frantis/frantis.htm

Blacksheep
14th Dec 2007, 02:57
Lacey took out 5 in France and a further 18 'confirmed' during the BoB for a total of 23 by the end of the battle. His wartime total was 28. Todays press would lap up a Sergeant with a Yorkshire accent and a laid back sense of humour, but the wartime publicity machine preferred a different style.

henry crun
14th Dec 2007, 06:54
The other point you have not mentioned Blacksheep, is that he was a scruffy bugger, which also did not sit well with the PR side of things. :)

ScottyDoo
14th Dec 2007, 08:11
Ginger flew the unglamorous Hurricane and what's even worse was a Sergeant Pilot. He also didn't care much for dogfighting, saying that a fighter pilot's job was to shoot down as many enemy bombers as he had ammunition for.

Ginger would say that; the Hurricane Sqns ended up being relegated to deliberate attacks against bombers instead of fighters, where possible, as the Hurri didn't match up against the 109.

He should have said, "...a Hurricane fighter pilot's job was to shoot down bombers..."


Anyway, according to my grand-uncle (who served the Reich) and many other krauts, there never was a specific "Battle of Britain".

Propaganda.

The historians say even Hitler himself had no interest in the running of this combat, "shrugged" at the failure of Op. SeaLion to get off the ground and looked east.

Len says there was no such thing as an "official RAF score" in the '40s.

And for further propaganda purposes, the RAF turned a blind eye to the inflated and exaggerated claims of their pilots. Nevertheless, it's commonly agreed Sgt. Frantisek was "Numbah One" with 17 scalps and FltLt McKellar got 16.



By the way, 'Sailor' Malan is credited with saying it was preferable to allow a bomber filled with dead and dying crew to RTB and demoralise the rest, than to be shot down outright. And of course, no bio of 'Sailor' Malan is complete without an account of "The Battle of Barking Creek".

J-NUS
14th Dec 2007, 09:18
I don't think that Hitler really wanted to fight the British Empire, or America. Their agression to him was a distraction from his objective of re-instating pre-world war 1 Germany to its original condition. It seems that he got his way when you compare Gemany to Britain now. I see it says 'always blame the french' on the front page of the forum, well in this case I would. Their heavy handed post first world war attitude to Germany was one of the main causes of the rise of nazi-ism

I thought Ginger Lacy was a character in Biggles books, I didnt realise there was a real person named that!

ScottyDoo
14th Dec 2007, 09:25
I agree.

And in later years, Ginger Lacey was a well-known porn starlet.

balding biggles
14th Dec 2007, 14:41
My Grandad always claimed that the Hurricane was better than the 109 in a turning fight, it just lacked the speed. Also it took damage better than either the 109 or the Spitfire. He should have known. In his logbooks he shot down two 109s and two dorniers from a Hurricane before going on to Spitfires (shot down on his second operational Spitfire trip) He flew the 109 in 1943 from Martlesham Heath and the 190 on evaluation in 1945.

His favourite aircraft of all time was the Mosquito, for which he held a passion most men only have for their mistresses.

I'm sitting in his study chair and typing this. The chair is the seat from a Spitfire 1a mounted on the wheel frame from a typists chair. It is the seat from the aircraft he was flying when shot down. It's far from comfortable, but the history is fun and as a small boy I used to sit on his lap in this chair as he filled in his logbook.

The pilots from all sides in that war were incredible. I wish I had got more out of the old man, but he would only talk about the bits he found amusing.

BB

J-NUS
14th Dec 2007, 14:51
A very lucky man! What boring lives we live now. I bet he wouldn't swap. :ok:

sidtheesexist
14th Dec 2007, 15:32
I read another biography of the great man - am afraid I havn't got an author or ISBN no. - it was an old (50s/60s), original publication which I found by using the library's own book searching facility. Sorry not more help but there is at least one other biography out there............

balding biggles
14th Dec 2007, 15:47
J-NUS;

Although he said he hated the war and all it meant, I always believed it was probably the high point of his life and he would have gone back to it if he could.

BB

DavosFlyer
19th Jul 2010, 23:51
I thought Ginger Lacy was a character in Biggles books, I didn't realise there was a real person named that!You are thinking of Algy Lacy ( Hon. Algernon Montgomery Lacey). He was, in the books, Biggles' young cousin.
"Ginger" was Ginger Hebblethwaite.
I don't know why the actual "Ginger" lacy wasn't called "Algy" in ironic reference to his namesake in the Biggles books - which came out in the mid 1930s and would have been required reading for all boys then. Maybe at age 20 in 1937 he'd have been too old for Biggles books.

Davaar
19th Jul 2010, 23:59
Welcome, J-NUS!

Agreed.

corsair
20th Jul 2010, 00:05
A very lucky man! What boring lives we live now. I bet he wouldn't swap. Indeed, even though I'm a pilot. I cannot even come close to imagining what it was like to do what those guys did. Well I can imagine the tiredness but not the fear.

Cacophonix
20th Jul 2010, 00:11
What next? You will be babbling about Caesar Hull....

NF

Pinky the pilot
20th Jul 2010, 03:03
The chair is the seat from a Spitfire 1a mounted on the wheel frame from a typists chair. It is the seat from the aircraft he was flying when shot down.

How about posting a piccy of it bb?
Can`t speak for others but I would`nt mind seeing that!:ok:

angels
20th Jul 2010, 06:40
Pure JB!

Someone resurrects a 2-1/2 year old thread to explain the finer points of characters from Biggles!

Agreed on Ginger Lacey, I recall one top brass was stunned when he landed at some outpost in Burma and Lacey was pottering around in an Asian style loincloth and little else.

Gainesy
20th Jul 2010, 08:36
Ginger stayed on in the RAF as a Fighter Controller until the late 1960s or early 1970s I think.

henry crun
20th Jul 2010, 08:56
He was at Leconfield in 1956 when I met him, his dress sense had improved by then. :)

TerminalTrotter
20th Jul 2010, 15:30
I believe that Malan was pretty scruffy too. I've read that he used to enjoy being 'jumped' (by NCOs who didn't know him) for being a scruffy excuse for an airman, then seeing them off. He was a squadron leader at the time. There again, being 'nice' wasn't a necessary part of the job description in wartime.

TT

Storminnorm
20th Jul 2010, 15:42
My old hangar foreman at ACE Freighters was a chap by the
name of Alan "Knocker" West.
He was an ex- Squabling Bleeder, and had flown on Sunderlands
during the war. A Jaguar fanatic he was, every time you went in the
hangar at night, Knocker would be there pounding the life back into
some poor old Jag.
He used to get them back to more or less "Concours" condition, then
export them to his Mate in America to sell to the Yanks.
Problem was, he was REALLY upset when ACE went bust because he had to start buying petrol again.
Dunno what became of him in the end. Great bloke.

cavortingcheetah
20th Jul 2010, 15:55
Battle of Britain. (1969)
Squadron Leader Skipper.