QatarAirways Probe

[qatarpilot123]

We live in interesting times-
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=189840&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

[togaluck]

will it do anything?? NOOO!!!

[A300Man]

9,000 calls?? That's a lot!
Anyway, if any inquiry is being held by the Government into problems at Qatar Airways, it cannot be a good thing for the carrier from a publicity perspective.
It is no secret that a certain senior "officer" at Qatar Airways is not much liked by the ruling family. (At all, in fact).

The calls covered a variety of complaints and concerns, and not just related to the number of Qatari pilots (as the Gulf Times report suggests.) Many other subjects were raised.

[Tintin]

A300man do you care to elaborate on the other issue??? Did they say it's not only the Qatari who are treated like that???

[outhouse]

After identifying the GN article on another thread in this forum, I will remove it and allow this one to continue with the discussion.

Any rapidly growing airline has to have a solid core of competence to act as a catalyst in the expansion process. Qatar Airways in my view seems to have a draconian management attitude in its control of professional expertise within the company.

Historically, similar fast expansion programs not backed up by an infrastructure of high employee commitment including a high moral and competent dependant departments (Training, Quality and Engineering) experience problems. Unaffected by political pressure and other linked diversions this is hard enough, I suspect the continuing investigation through the Qatar governmental system and in airline divisions this will not assist well with a safe and programmed plan.

Presently QA has a new and very presentable fleet expanding monthly with new additions to the toy set, Impressive in flight stuff for the passengers and a prestigious advertisement program.

However behind the blinds I suspect that it’s not quite as advertised.

I have no particular interest in the airline and after over 40 years in the industry covering both fixed and rotary piloting find myself viewing from afar, however the basic rules still apply now as they did when I started. Expansion is cool but make sure that the infrastructure is in place or you will be bitten in the arse.

Festive Season Greetings to all, Weather crap in Europe but understand in Doha is a sunny 20 C ish. Sorry still enjoy the log fire and crap weather.

Outhouse.:cool:

[rayani999]

but they're not talking about the poor non-Qatari office staff whose salaries were cut because they're not under Company sponsorship...or they're married to another QR Employee. Its not like we're getting 60000/month, we were happy with the 6000 & they cut 2000. Will anything be done about that, I think not:ugh:

[outhouse]

Qatar Airways aims to score first with gas-powered planes

October 31, 2007 - 10:50AM
Qatar Airways aims to become the first carrier in the world to fuel its fleet with natural gas, an airline executive said in the Emirates Today newspaper on Tuesday.

The state-owned airline of the Gulf country which holds more than 15 percent of the world's proven gas reserves would announce details of the plan at the Dubai Air Show next month.

"Qatar Gas, Shell and Qatar Airways are currently talking to each other to finalise a plan for flying aircraft on natural gas," the English-language daily quoted the airline's commercial general manager Ali al-Rais as saying.

He said that state-owned Qatar Gas and Shell were in turn holding talks with Rolls-Royce and General Electric to develop an engine for the natural gas-powered aircraft.

"Ours would be the first carrier in the world to use this techonology. Engineers and scientists are working tirelessly to make this happen and it will happen," Rais added.

A Rolls-Royce official told the paper that the firm was in discussions with several airlines regarding alternative fuels, adding that switching to gas-powered planes would be more cost effective for airlines.

Rais also told the paper that Qatar Airways has 150 planes on order, including five double-decker Airbus A380s, the world's biggest passenger liner.

Qatar's giant North Field has proven reserves of more than 900 trillion cubic feet (25 trillion cubic meters) of natural gas, the third largest in the world after Russia and Iran.

:ok:

[411A]

Having known the original financial director of QA when they started, I must say with all candor that the problems that they now have certainly appear to be ingrained...and not likely to be 'solved' anytime soon.

Rather sad, really.

[CEO PITA]

Yes confirmed AAB is kick out and Salia is taking over the CEO post .
Salia will be good becouse he can continue good job done by CEO .
And new CC mananger will be Prem or Elias .
New C.P A320 is Khalifa and new CT is Khartut .
CT 777 is MArk M.
Happy ?

[cnic]

Is this for real or are you playing with us. If it is for real will it make a real difference or more of the same?

[A300Man]

Oh, for heaven's sake, don't believe a word of it.

[outhouse]

Look,
Qatar Airways like any other airline in your area is a status symbol of the operating country, its expansion and success reflects the growth of the said country and its perceived importance in the world picture.

Rapid expansion, new and latest aircraft types being ordered are perceived to be part of that picture of growth and growing importance.

The general travelling public are impressed and take advantage of the nice new and shiny aircraft and high quality in flight facilities, attractive, young and well presented cabin staff. Not forgetting the high professionalism of the crews operating the aircraft

It’s the hidden cracks in the system that concern, hence my comment previously.

Without defence in depth, sound and experienced management and a refusal to bow to political pressure in the selection of competent staff, you are failing your uninformed and generally trusting travelling public.

[indianenglishman]

Outhouse,
were you lifting text from a management book on 'how to - or how not to' manage...? as that's how I read it...?:=

[outhouse]

Common sense and understanding plus some experience allow one to make informed suggestions, though it may seem that it comes from the Acme book of successful management they are simple and follow the basic rule.
Please if you have a point, make it and we can discuss, if you disagree with my comments say. Open forums promote discussion and views.
No my comments are not lifted from any text, seems to me common since and a reasonable assessment.
I will not get involved in the general discussions regarding individuals within the company as this is time wasting.
Constructive discussion and productive debate stimulates the little gray cells and ads luster to ones life of leisure and continual seasonal disturbance while in retirement.
Festive greetings

Outhouse.
:cool:

[knotaloud]

Welcome Outhouse.

It's nice to get rational discussion every now and then. Something sadly lacking from some of the posters here. Your points are well made and whether they appear to be out of a manual or not is moot. QR needs quality people in all areas of its operation. Not just flight crew.

QR will just not pay enough to get the personnel the company needs in EVERY area to fill the cracks in our defences. We are just lucky to have some of the competent people we have. Not enough though.

[shneidertrophy]

Very nice to see indeed....


Money alone is not enough to attract the right people.

What about long term vision, willingness to attract people to invest in your company, a reward structure for people going the extra mile etc.

There just is no long term vision overhere, hence the lack of provident fund!

In the same effort, there is no investment in people either. Who says we have to attract people from outside. There are many people, enrolled by QR allready, with the right capacities and qualifications who are just being ignored by management.
It looks like management does not want anything to do with them because they might pose a threat...

Many young guys inside have the capacities as well, they just need a bit of brushing up by e.g. a management training course. That is not done either ( Although these courses DO exist at QR and they are being offered to most other departments)

The whole middle management is rotten and underqualified, pilots are loosing intrest by the hundreds..

Basically, QR has no solid foundation to build its future on.

I wonder if its too late allready, or is something still can be done about it?

[shneidertrophy]

And Outhouse, you said it allready...

We ARE failing our customers badly!

[vivace]

What people consistently miss as to the 'lower' quality of crew in QR is that by virtue of its geography,reputation etc is that Qatar will never appeal to the 'prime' candidates in the aviation market. Any potential candidate will always favour EK or EY,so by default you will find that QR will be the collection of dare I say 'rejects' from the first choice airlines. Compare it to the division categories of football,and it is plain to see that QR will be by nature always the 3rd division of airline choice,as the prime candidates will always elect for the premier league of EK/EY. In time QR will be mainly made up of Indians/Pakistanis and Latinos...as these are the least favoured by the afore mentioned 'premier league' airlines. Not necessarily right,but unfortunately thats the way its looking.

[sqwakbox]

That couldn't have being said any better vivace. the goat has being originated by a EK reject and a wannabe pilot and turned into a refuge camp for the rejects and their relatives. A combination of vendetta desire with typical geographical anomalies in perceptions leads to an inevitable end.
That's the most fortunate position for AAB as he knows that the rejects wont leave let alone try to impeach him. Thus it's a vicious circle where both sides endure each other for the sake of personal advantage. No one cares about anything but to fill own pocket and to abuse any given position as long as possible. The outcome is the general stay put, be invisible, attitude if you wanna survive. That reminds me of the Chairman's Mao strategy divide and rule. ABUSE or be ABUSED is the slogan of he goat airline.

[cavelino rampante]

Vivace

Thats a very insulting post. There is quality here from ALL over the world. 8 years at QR has taught me that good airmanship is NOT related to the country of passport issue.

The problem at QR is the CEO.

[Mike Tuck]

While I generally agree with your generalisation, it will be interesting to see how much truth the RELTA tests reveal. Important to remember that will ONLY show the level of English understood/spoken etc. The rest is up to the training department – I think they know the real truth .……. :\

[shneidertrophy]

Without wanting to go into any polemic regarding our training department (Yes, they know what is wrong and where the problems lay. No they will not do anything about it due to commercial pressure) I have to agree with CR on this one...

Saying that good aviators only can be from UK/OZ or the USA is insulting and plain stupid.

I have seen the opposite as well. Remember the whole bunch of Spaniards we had here last year from Air Madrid. They all came with JAR-OPS licences and A330 TR. Well, all but two where requested to leave or where fired at this moment.

What about the Swiss guy with the fake Captains licence ...etc etc etc...

UK/OZ/USA do not have a monopoly on good professional pilots, not by far!

The part where you claim QR is handicapped due to its geographical location is unfortunately very true. Most people originating from a westerly orientated developed country will prefer AUH or DXB over DOH as a base!
The man in charge knows this very well. All he cares for is to crew the airplanes and preferably he will do this by hiring individuals with no other option available to them.

Pilots with only an ICAO licence or the wrong passports, not allowing them to live in the more civilized countries.

These pilots do not cause any troubles and he knows it very well! Unfortunately for our paying pax, these pilots are in general of a much lower level!

Lately we had a huge influx of Latin pilots as well. Same problem there. Level of English is very low, flying skills average, opportunities back home nil (lots of jobs but no money) (Generalisation --> Luckily we have seen some very good guys from that part of the world as well.)

That being said, we still have a rather large group of pilots who are really professional and they come from all over the world!

And in all honesty, I dare to say that our level of pilots on an average is not worse or better than EK or EY!

Compared to EY we are way ahead in terms of documentation, training syllabi etc...

Compared to EK we are somewhat behind but not that far. OK, we do not have the shiny training infrastructure EK has with their training centre but procedure wise, I dare to say we are on the same level. EK’s procedures are being suffocated by strange policies, all originating from their dominantly "English" approach to training and SOPs.

One thing EK and EY have going from them is the fact that they can recruit from a much larger ( and thus offering a wider choice) pilot pool.
So while these companies are saved by recruiting pilots who do not need such a large amount of training to bring them up to standards, QR has to do the opposite.

We have to recruit the leftovers, but until 6 months ago QR managed to bring these guys more or less to the desired standard by offering much more and generally better training!

Lately however, due to the training department letting of their guard and due to an increased recruitment requirement worldwide, the level of training had to be dropped in order to meet the commercial requirements!

And this now is an extremely dangerous position for QR to be in! Combining low level recruits with a lower level of training is a potential recipe for disaster!

On top of that, and this is due to some extremely flawed and poor decision making from our rather weak flight ops management, most senior FOs and Captains who have another option available to them, are leaving or thinking about leaving in the near future. No real future is offered to them by this company so who can blame them!

So this is the second ingredient for that recipe for disaster....

So unless QR does not take an 180 Degree turn in their mentality towards pilot recruitment, training and management, this company truly will see a disaster and become a refugee camp for the outcast of the pilot community!

And this goes for all levels of employment within the company! The whole company is infested by under qualified and incompetent people, many of them in important key positions! Never did they receive any training, never did the company offer them a course but still they have lots of decision power.
Just take a visit to the financial department, rostering department, HR, etc....Mostly you will find are people taking advantage of their powers but without them getting the job done. Luckily, just as in flight ops, these "bad “people and their work are being corrected by the few very competent people working in those departments as well.

And if this continues, our paying passengers should be alerted before its too late!

[vivace]

Cavelino, Schneider..edited post as you both right,it came across wrong re. pilot origins.Agree that origin/license has nothing to do with ability, I have flown/tested many pilots from around the world and have seen excellent pilots from all corners of the world. The countries were mentioned to reflect EK/EYs preferred recruit and was not meant to suggest they were 'better'. The overall message is as Schneider states,it is still the last choice and as such will attract a certain market that will put up with less.

[mtr]

I am amazed with above comments! In Europe QR is considered one of the best carriers of the Gulf. Very to know that its not worth joining.


All comments about origin and skills should be totally rejected!!

[Bat600]

Why are you working in Qatar Airways?
Are you from, South America, India or Pakistan?

Qatar Airways are yours first choice airline?
Are you an 'prime' candidate in the aviation market?
:confused: :E :mad:

[cnic]

Could anyone update us to the state of QRs new management, a little while back it was posted that many changes and sackings were going on. I have heard that the HR team has all changed, has this made a difference.

[Maverick]

Without getting into any controversial political topic, me and a lot of my friends believe that Race is Not the determining value/factor in one's progress. In today's world it is the developing nations who are taking the world by the forelock.
In no time will India, Pakistan and South America, as mentioned by one of our Superior Human (Nationality) pilot, be leading the stride for a safe efficient aviation sphere.
A few shortcomings still prevail in the so called third world countries which is why the countries on the whole have not been named in the list of developed countries YET, but that does not mean that the people in these countries are of an inferior race.
India as Most of us know had some of the earliest civilizations and lead the world in many discoveries and super powers like US, have employed people from India in its Top Positions with many being in the Scienctific Aviation field like NASA itself.
It is a pity that people look down upon others based on their passports causing ill things like prejudice and caste-barriers. In this century people working for flagships and airlines which portray ones background should be a little more mature than this.
If they are not, then these are the kind of people AIRLINES should be wary of hiring as lets face the Fact. ITS A MULTICULTURAL WORLD NOW and It is unfortunately our field Aviation itself which has helped bridge the GAP between the SO called Superior and Inferior races making no one any different than the other.
AND CHILL, WE are ALL HUMAN BEINGS....!
With Best Intentions,
Mav.

[loc22550]

Lets not forget another important factor as well.Doha.:uhoh: Not the most attractive place on earth...this probably limits the place where Q.A. is able to recruit as well...
People are refusing to come here or are resigning from qatar airways because of Doha as well...
No change..no future...:uhoh:

[Cloth Ears]

from wot I read you guys seem like you are worth tons more than wot is going on at QR .. am sure some of u see it as great .. but from wot I read its not so great..n even tho they are bringing in new people - they also don't seem so great (ex BA?) .. sad ..think you all are worth more than abuse. cheap pay.. crappy accom.. i hope it gets better for you .. but am not sure ....:bored::rolleyes::bored::rolleyes::hmm: take care you guys ...

[AERO DYNAMIK]

A really good post Willie, an experienced and professional opinion.

I worked at QR for 5 years and left 2 years ago to join a major European longhaul legacy carrier with a big reputation. I can make direct comparisons. Technically speaking, documentation, manuals, flight planning, SOP's, checking, training and maintenance were in my opinion all at a similar or higher level at QR, they compare very favourably indeed. Some of the people I few with at QR would be a credit to any airline anywhere.

[foxtrot]

Like most company's in the world, there are good things and bad at Qatar Airways. No company can be perfect. It is growing thus the problems. Regarding the pilots some are excellent, some good,some average and yes some bad. Nothing new there , all airlines have more or less the same kind of work force. GMFO does his best to make the operation a fair place to work and so do some of the other management pilots. The A330 fleet seems to be a good fleet to fly for , pretty well managed and rosters improving every month ( plus they are out by the 21st/22nd of the preceeding month ). The picture is a little confused on the A300 & A320 fleets, but who said this is a perfect world.
The airline has great potential, the kinks need to be worked out. It is the small things that make a airline great, hope for the best guys and happy new year.:ok: