CTC iCP or USA all the way?

[Aaron88]

Hi,

I've recently been offered a training contract with CTC under their new (and unproven) iCP program. Essentially it comprises of the same training as the CTC Wings Cadet program but without the type rating and airline sponsorship at the end. However, so far no one has graduated (as they have only recently flown people out to NZ to commence training) but I imagine there will be no problems for any of the hard working, determined students as the course content itself is proven by the Wings Cadets.

My question is this....In your opinion should I accept the CTC iCP contract, although unproven, it’s offered by a highly respected company in aviation training (if I'm not horribly mistaken) or look at the considerably cheaper alternatives in the US.

CTC costs £61,000 + living expenses (which is about the average for zero to fATPL in the UK) of your own wedge, no sponsorship, bonds paid back by airlines or guarantees offered.

OR

The US which offers very attractive integrated courses of £30,000 + (some inc. / excl. accommodation etc so let’s ignore those sorts of factors for now)

Has anyone any experience of either of these routes or similar (I know iCP is new but anyone out there yet getting hands on?) will the cheaper option turn round and bite me in the ass in a few years!? Do UK/European employers look at US training negatively?

I know there is little information about the courses but at the moment I just want your general vibes and past experiences.

Any general comments would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers, Aaron

[AlphaMale]

All I can say is that £61,000 + living expenses is a lot to cough up for a 19 year old.

I'm not sure how you stand with getting a loan from HSBC with the iCP program, maybe you can let us know?

I agree that CTC must be the number 1 FTO for getting you into the RHS of a jet after graduating but the unproven iCP course is another thing all together. You might end up like another OAT integrated student debating if he/she should do a FIC in order to earn some cash to pay off the £1k loan per month.

Am I correct is saying HSBC will only loan you up to £25k?

In my circumstances (mid 20's with a full time job) I'd probably opt for the States/Spain to get my fATPL but CTC's connections with airlines and quality is second to none!

Good luck.

[p111lot]

Aaron88

With you being only 19 have you not applied for the CTC Wings Cadet Programme? How about the RAF? And there are other schemes that have recently come up and will be re appearing in 2008. Why not give these ago before splashing out £60-70k+....

Best of Luck

[student88]

Hey Aaron,

Welcome to the forums.

Do your parents have the 'resources' to fund the cost of the iCP course and the need to support you and your loan repayments if/when you come back from NZ and are waiting for a job? If the answer is no, then I suggest you forget about CTC for now whilst you do something like:


Look for a research a cheaper alternative (America)
Go to work and try to save as much money as possible for a few years.
apply to CTC and other FTOs who are offering sponsorships.Obviously the latter is only applicable if you have A Levels. No one will be interested in someone who doesn't have A Levels (like me). Clearly we don't have the aptitude to fly an aircraft as well as someone with A-Levels in French and Theatre Studies! (can you taste the sarcasm there?). I know how important it is to be able to woo the Cabin Crew with your French Oral.. I'm not bitter - honest!;)

With regards to your question - don't accept anything with CTC until you have talked with your parents thoroughly and know you've made the right choice. At the end of the day CTC are a business so try not to think about that they're telling you to do.

I'd agree that yes, you probably do have a greater chance of getting a job when coming from a CTC background but can you really justify spending an extra £30,000 for the pleasure of employment? That's a lot of money! More than most peoples annual salary! I know lots of people that have gone to America to train and are now in employment with UK airlines. You're just going to have to be strict with yourself and make sure you study hard if you do choose this route. Who knows - that money you saved on loan repayments from not going to CTC could come in handy when you're paying off your type rating.

I hope you make the decision that's best for you - good luck!

S88

[Chrisbowe82]

Student88, some good advice there, but don't let not having A-levels put you off. (it may not have, I don't know?) CTC has been my aim, but I left college with poor A-levels, so I've had to save for a long time, and I'm at the point where I can pay to do a distance learning course for maths and physics A-levels. Don't let it put you off CTC if you don't have decent ones yet, as they can always be taken at a later date.

[student88]

Chrisbowe82 - you're right. Not having A-Levels should never put anyone off choosing to become a Commercial Pilot - it hasn’t done so for me. I sat the first 6 months of 6th Form and left. I was bullied at school and couldn’t take anymore.

I forgot about my A Levels and based upon advice from a flight school in Oxford, I said to myself that I wouldn’t bother going back to study for them. That was when I was 16 and easily influenced by a school’s course coordinators or ‘sales team’ as I now like to call them!

Now at the age of 19 I want to prove, like many others have done already, that you can become a quality pilot without having the high school education that many think is necessary. However, I have made up for not having A Levels in other ways..

When I left school I turned my part time job at Sainsbury’s into a full time job – earning as much money as possible to fund my driving lessons. The day after I passed I had an interview for a job on check in with easyJet. I did this until I was old enough to become Cabin Crew. I flew as crew for 18 months and now work in an Operations Department for a major UK airline. This isn’t a self gloss but I’m pretty proud of where I am now. Not bad for a 19year old that only has GCSE’s.

If I had the choice of 3 A grade A Levels or my experience – I’d go for the experience. I think it’s more valuable – especially in this industry.

In retrospect, yes – it’d be nice to have the qualifications. However if I had the opportunity to go back and do it all again id decline. One thing I will say is that 9 times out of 10 its not what you know but who you know.


S88

[Chrisbowe82]

S88, yes, I agree about the A-levels and being a quality pilot without some random certificates. All the way through college the tutors tried to put me off my 'unrealistic' dream and send me to university to be a 'sales manager' or something similar. All I want to do is start my career and take the selection tests now, but it's going to be around a year of waiting until I've passed my A-levels. But i'ts going to have to be the way for me unfortunately, especially with the competition, even if at the end of the day A-levels don't make you a better pilot and team member. I applied to the Fleet Air Arm back when i was 19/20 and did very well with the aptitude tests for pilot selection at Cranwell and passed for pilot. However I was told I'd have next to no chance when I went down to officer selection at portsmouth due to my poor A-level results, so yes I can do a good job of flying, no I wasn't the 'type' to be flying. Shame.

I think you've done well for yourself after sixth form and clearly have the right attitude regarding your career, it's just a shame a lot of the oppertunities we are presented with at this early stage are adamant on them for the most part, but Hopefully, your experience of airline ops and commitment will go a long way at the interview process. Hope it goes well for you. :ok:

[dartagnan]

if you give me 60'000 pounds, I can help you from 0 hours to commercial included type rating and a guaranteed job interview at the end.

[student88]

You're such the professional Dartagnan!

[p111lot]

Qualifications like A-levels are a great way to demonstate your level of intelligence and abillity to learn, obviously if you have 3 A levels in maths and science at grade A you will be at a big advantage to someone who has worked on the checkout at tesco....

Like it or lump it thats the harsh reality. But I agree not having any decent qualifications shouldnt put you off a flying career depending on your reasons for never having bothered to spend 2years at college.

Flying is a very competitive world but a masters degree and a lack of personalllity will make it tougher to find employment, just as no decent qualifications and a great personaillty will.

The other thing any wannabes might want to think about it that ATPL studies are a lot more difficult than A-Levels. Plus at the decent schools students are competing to get the best results i.e well over 90%

[AlphaMale]

II think the A'levels will get you higher up the CV pile for a sponsorship for sure. If you can handle 3 good A'levels then you've proven that you have the ability to learn/be taugh and an academic. Which are the key factors in studying for the ATPL exams amongst determination.

With only GCSE's to your name you'll be at the bottom of the pile. Like many other on here I have a degree, but I have come accross a few people on pprune with Masters ... some even have PHd's after their name.

So if these academics make me think I'm half way down the CV pile with a common BSc in IT what must a GCSE level wanabee feel like? :(

Like you we have all finished our GCSE's / A'levels / Degree's etc and gone on to better things to make our family proud of us. But we only get to tell the airlines our story IF we get our foot in the door, be it with outstanding qualifications or who we know.

If you're in ops then I'd keep the pilots numbers you talk too and the managers for that matter. That might be your back door :ok:


Edited to add education thread:

Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=164926)

As you can see A levels are not the be all and end all. BUT as said at the start if you want to get on with CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cadets/selection.asp) / Air Atlantique Sponsorship (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=188007) / Highland Airways Sponsorship (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235439) etc then A levels seem to be the minimum.


Good luck.

[Right Touch]

Unless your going for a sponsorship , then educational qualifications make no difference whatsoever . Only thing most airlines are interested in is your licence, flying experience and Type rating if applicable ,and of course personality , i.e can i sit next to this person for 10 hours plus without wanting to punch them ? !! often it is the latter what counts most.

Never ceases to amaze me how small this industry is either , student88 will no doubt be accumulating a black book of useful contacts in his job , worth much more than A Levels , Degree , PHD , MBA , OBE etc .

The Airline i first flew with ending up employing about half a dozen ops bods as fO'S

I also have a fair few friends flying with Major UK Airlines who have no educational qualifications whatsoever ...... dont get hung up over it :)


Cheers

Right Touch ( 6 o'levels , 2 Very ordinary A levels !!! )