Egnatia Aviation

[poulidis]

Hi everybody, this is my first post. I am planning to get an ATPL and sice I am from Greece and I can only afford around 50000eur, I am thinking about Egnatia Aviation. The thing is that I have heard bad things as well as good things about the school and I have to say I am a bit confused... I don't really care about the acommodation, tha hot topics are how good they train you and if Egnatia is considered a good from airlines.
I have also come across Orlado Flight Training in Florida, where if I understood correctly you can an FAA ATPL for around 43000eur, and if you add the conversion fees, I am close...

Let's hear what you have to say

Thanks in advance

[wbryce]

Research this subject very carefully before making any impulse decision. In my opinion I would stay well clear of them.

[AlphaMale]

Looks like a nice set up, nice clear skies, nice state of the art aircraft (Diamond), Get the European licence first as last (instead of doing an FAA licence and then having the added expense/time of converting it).

Might be worth reading a few threads first though;

Egnatia flight college THREAD (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235814)

How Pi***d Am I At Egnatia Greece THREAD (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3762248)

Good luck.

[poulidis]

The thing is that most of these threads for Egnatia are some months or more old, and since they have introduced thei new integrated program called "ikaros", which as I can see has covered some points mentioned in those posts such as internet at acommodation. Some people say they only have one part-time instructor some say they have three, some say there is limited aircaraft availability some say is no problem with the availability...

I am confused here... And the only reason I am sceptical about going to the US is the conversion time/fees, plus some problems I have heard of concerning the recognition of the converted license by some companies

[AlphaMale]

The thing is that most of these threads for Egnatia are some months or more old

I only gave you two thread links?!? How do you manage a 50/50 to be most? :confused:

The "How Pi***d Am I At Egnatia Greece" was written on on the 7th of December and was last updated on the 10th of December ... How up to date do you want this info?

Ikaros isn't that new either ;)

[poulidis]

There are more threads where Egnatia aviation is mentioned and discussed than just the two you gave me (about the most part)

[AlphaMale]

Well if you had found a thread written in December '07 why do you need to ask for another thread?

Ask davidathomas42 what he thinks of the school he trained at in December of this year and he'll give you up to date information. The school isn't going to change much in 2 weeks :ugh:

[YYZ]

Wbryce,
Where I can understand david thomas and others have issues, could you let me know why you have such a strong opinion about EA? It does not appear that you ever trained there?

YYZ

[AlphaMale]

Where I can understand david thomas and others have issues, could you let me know why you have such a strong opinion about EA? It does not appear that you ever trained there?


A quick look at his website found on his profile would indicate that he did visit the place.

As seen here - http://www.wbryce.co.uk/Other/diaries/choosingfto.htm (http://www.wbryce.co.uk/Other/diaries/choosingfto.htm)

[YYZ]

I did indeed see that, but a day or so visit does not enable someone to form such a strong negative opinion, but an opinion I understand? So I was wondering what has done this, just out of interest?
Reading the diary, he has gone to a great length to explain everything, and after the initial visit stated he would be going, then with afterthought changed his mind, no problem, but if the initial decision was to go, what has since, for him, made it such a terrible place to be? Except what he may of read on Prune?


YYZ

[wbryce]

YYZ, its no problem, I can see why some people may wonder why on earth that wee scottish laddie is making so much noise!! Since my visit I kept a close ear on the wall, just really to see if I made the right choice or not, which I believe I did. Since I was involved in the first threads and do have that slight public profile then I've been contacted on several occassions from people hour building, visiting and ab-initio students and followed the story from beginning to present, A few of these people have kept in touch exchanging emails and still to this day and with all the malarky posted on PPRuNe, I haven't seen one positive word since their initial issues so im of a firm belief anyone considering them needs to be cautious.
I could remain quiet and let the helpless wannabee go straight into a blind spiral dive with his hard earned but its just not in my nature, I try and remain objective and point them towards the feedback rather than give me own views, since as you say, I opted to stay clear of them.
my diary entry is quite old and reflects my feelings at time of writing but I hope that satisfys...

[Egnatia Instructor]

I'm glad you opted to try clear that up, as I was starting to get offended that you were being so harsh toward people who put themselves out to give you an insight to the company.

Whilst you were there, you got collected from the airport, taken out for drinks, had a backseat flight and I took you to my house? That of course was on top of the normal school tour, there is not one other school I know who would go to these lengths for you.

However, I appreciate this is not what makes a good school, but based on YOUR experiences you found the school to be of a generally good standard, but you opted for another route. This I take no objection to at all. But to constantly knock the school through your limited experience I do.

I would like to make it very clear, I DO NOT work there anymore as I have moved on to other things, and although I have not spoke to the school for over one year I obviously take an interest.

I do feel bad for them when a posting is poor, but the all schools get them and you cannot please everyone, all I ask is for a more objective view, I do know you and I know you have a great passion for all things aviation, as do we all, but I really feel that a more un-bias opinion would not go a miss, after all, neither I or you know what's going on with the school now, a year makes a huge difference.

And just to clarify, although I am hot:}, I was never the HoT; I was just a simple FI.

All that said, I do hope & wish you well

Dave
Ex FI

[wbryce]

Hello Dave,

I hope you went onto bigger, faster and pointer things! the sooner you got away from driving that bus, you got a better life expectancy! :}

While I appreciate you understand the initial red carpet treatment doesn't make a good school, I never asked for any of it, I expected to pay my own accomodation, I expected to hire a car etc etc...the school was new and it made sense from a business point of view to try and impress potential customers and they did that with me, which made it harder not to choose them. Even when I decided not to use Egnatia it was based on a decision that the school was still in its infancy, I viewed them as a risky choice.
If you still keep in touch with any of the guys out their then why not drop them a quick email or PM and ask them for their opinion? I still speak to a few of them and I hope some of them in the future will come on here and post their experiences! We should all be looking out for each other, we all are paying a huge amount of money to follow our aspirations.

While I did enjoy my visit at Egnatia, my views are only reflected on them as a business.

Nice to hear from you again though.

[delmouzos]

Firstly Hello Dave how are 737-800s doing? Nice to hear from you.
wbryce, just a clarification. As far as I realise you didn't choose Egnatia Aviation because we where not registered with the Carrer development loans and you found some excuses for IR Jiffy Hoods ect. This is your choice and you have every right to come to us or not. Now a few statistics that can be checked any time for their accuracy.

Egnatia Aviation logged in 2007 6000 training hours with 5 aircraft. This is over 1000 hours per aircraft. Maintenance issues? Some but who doesn't in aviation. You cannot do much if there is not stock availability at the manufacturers or there is a certain service bulletin that grounds your aircraft until parts are available. Anyway since last July Egnatia Aviation has an approved Maintenance Organisation by EASA which has sorted most of these issues. Even with these old issues over 1000 hours per aircraft is a great deal of training. We just bought a new DA40 D so now the aircraft are 6. There are another 2 DA40s on order and we are negotiating for another twin. We will hopefully have 9 by this summer.

Today the 168th student enrolled. A fairly new school that has 168 students in the first 18 months of operation is quite successful so we must be doing something right. Students who attended at the school obtained until now 60 PPLs, 45 CPLs, 50 IRs. That’s only what the HCAA have issued and not other authorities. The average time for a licence to be issued these days from the HCAA after intense negotiations we made is 2-4 weeks. That’s 2 weeks less than the average authority.

Last month our students obtained a 96% pass rate at the ATPL theory tests. We are using the best material on the market in my opinion.

I think those are enough facts to clear some things that have been published on the forum the last few months. I believe in free will and that everybody has their own opinion that is absolutely respectable.

However I prefer to spend my time in improving any quality issues at the school rather than trying to defend ourselves in the small amount of students or wannabies that visited and didn't enjoy their visits or expected to come to the sunny paradise. We are offering Pilots training and not luxury holidays in the sun. As Dave mentioned we cannot keep everyone happy. Everybody has the right to stay in the accommodation we offer or not. All we are trying to do is make life easier for people/students so they can concentrate on their training without worrying about finding house, pay the bills etc.

Finally graduates from Egnatia Aviation are now flying for many airlines as Aegean Airline (Greece), Ryanair etc. By the way I also believe that is not the school but the individual that gets the job so well done guys!!

Poulidis and anybody else. You are more than welcome to contact me for further/accurate/updated info.

Thanks and sorry for the long post>>>:bored:

DimitrisL
Egnatia Aviation Director
[email protected]

[Vandenbergh]

I did my faa/jaa conversion at Egnatia Aviation. I'm very happy with the way they treathed me and the way they took care of getting me done as quick as possible. it only took about 10 days to convert my license. My stay was in total 3,5 weeks, that was because the weather in december can be very bad. a lot of icing. But on the good days I was able to fly 2 a day. in sping, summer and autumn the weather should be a lot better.
Only thing I didn;t like is the fact that you have to come in very early in the morning and sometimes have to wait until late afternoon to start flying. this is because of the fact that they provide a shuttle service to an from the appartements in the morning and afternoon. They told me they are working on a solution for this problem. I even think they took care of this problem already.
The accomodation they provide is nice, and if there is a problem they take care of it right away. The airplanes are all new.
If you consider this flight school as a way to convert your license, this would be a good choice. I don;t know about their full zero to Atpl course, but the conversion was very good with them.

[G-HALE]

Has anyone or is anyone doing the 0-FATPL course?
What is the JAA ATPL ground school like?
Anyother advice on the school would be great:ok:

[ju5hea1]

Hi G-HALE
I completed 0-fATPL at egnatia the flying side of the training is fine but they certainly lack a good ground school instrutor! Which makes the ground school sh*t.

regards
Jusheal

[CY333]

I was advised by an inside guy of egnatia to stay away from the GS.
But flying is not bad actually and you get to go to many islands

[ju5hea1]

Affirm that is correct!

[dimitris_m]

I have been thinking for a while to post updated information about the school but i wanted to wait first and see what the directors' moves would be so that i would be as accurate as possible. Please bear in mind that this is based on my personal experience and i dont talk for anyone but myself, others who have been here at Egnatia might disagree although i believe i am covering with my views most students.

As with everything new, the school started out extremely positively, most of us thought when we were doing our research back in the end of 2006 that it was too good to be true... And it was... The downfall started in early 2007 when the planes were overbooked, swarms of students enrolled, the CGI left for England, maintenance had problems keeping the planes in the air mainly because of lack of spare parts and generally, the whole picture wasnt that bright. However, slowly yet steadily each problem was dealt with, some more succesfully than others. The problem you see was that Egnatia grew too fast, without being able to support that growth. Now things are turning once again. The have become an approved maintenance organization so they are able to order parts directly from Diamond and Thielert, minimizing ground time of the planes, they are expanding the fleet, they switched from Cranfield to Bristol material and they have formed a waiting list so that there is a proper slot allocation to current students. The remaining problem is (was) the groundschool. Mr Tzormpatzides, is a very able person but due to lack of ground instructors, he had his hands more than full. He was responsible for everything, from teaching to administrative work. That resulted to some very annoyed students leaving the school and rightfully so...
The most important thing of all is that the management changed attitude. Some problems would have been avoided if they had kept a closer relationship with the students but they didnt at the time. The new, "open door policy" is already starting to pay out.
From now on, 5 people will be involved in the groundschool, 4 ground instructors the CGI and a separate administration department supporting exclusively the groundschool needs.
I am almost finished with my IR training, now doing the final hours on the twin DA42, beautiful plane by the way (G1000 rules!) and in total i consider my experience to be positive. I had my clashes with the school mainly because of lack of plane availability and some were big ones but it all worked out well at the end, problems were resolved and it all happened way cheaper and faster than it would have been had i gone to the UK as i was initially planning. It took me 13 months and have scored 95% average. If anyone needs additional info, i am here to help.

P.S. Juseal, malaka, how u doing??? Done with the MCC?

[CABUS]

I was going to go to do my hour building but decided against it as a friend who was there decided to come home due lack of aircraft at the time. The only dealings I had with them was trying to get my monies back after cancelling and this took a good few months so I cant be too positive I am afraid. Best of luck in what you choose.

[AIR9000]

Hi,

My name is Nick and I come from Greece.If possible give me your information about the IR and CPL.I need your useful information regarding these specific elements and if possible the employment success of the graduates.

KIND REGARDS,
AIR9000:)

[harry3]

Career change, accomodation problems, could not fly in winter and more expensive than I predicted.

[skysiren]

Not to mention the bad scheduling, last minute cancellations to make way for other more prefered (Greek) students. The inability to get your complaints and queries delt with. The constant ridicule from the Head of Training, whether you answer a question right or not, if he doesn't like you your'e in for a hard time. The lack of working planes. etc etc etc.