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View Full Version : Marion Jones, the golden girl, finally gets justice


Binoculars
12th Dec 2007, 16:54
The golden girl of the Sydney Olympics has finally got what she deserves.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/13/2117372.htm

Another drug cheat shamed. Many more to come.

She still has the money she reaped from her cheating, so there is little chance she will be reduced to doing the rounds of schools warning of the evils of drugs. I don't suppose she will give a shit that she made a mockery of sport and what it supposedly stands for, her tears are only for herself, but at least the record books will no longer be stained by her name.

ScottyDoo
12th Dec 2007, 17:51
I don't suppose she will give a shit that she made a mockery of sport and what it supposedly stands for

What exactly does sport "stand for"?? :rolleyes:

And why would she care? The Olympics has already made a sham and a mockery of sport.

What a joke... Were you also up in arms when Cathy Freeman used that ridiculous green cat-woman suit to win her own gold medal???

:zzz:

airship
12th Dec 2007, 18:36
Somewhere down the line from Jones is an athlete who ran a fair race. Are you absolutely, positively, 100% sure about that...? :}

Track Coastal
12th Dec 2007, 18:49
Somewhere down the line from Jones is an athlete who ran a fair race.
An Olympic sprinter in the finals? Bunch of biochemically enhanced cyborgs. Maybe back in the heats there was an honest athlete.

eticket
12th Dec 2007, 18:51
I thought that the Olympians weren't going to automatically give the gold to the silver medalist in at least one of the dodgy races as the number two has had her own 'troubles' and therefore the Olympians need to have a think about what to do.

Remember the Greek athletes who had a motorbike accident before the Athens Olympics and missed a drug test as they were in hospital - her third missed test.

Cheerio
12th Dec 2007, 19:55
ScottyDoo wrote: What exactly does sport "stand for"??

At the highest level it stands for not getting caught, and those that are, mere casualties of war.

For me though, 'sport' at the highest level consists of a big bowl of popcorn, sitting on a brown velour sofa, in front of an ITT 26" colour TV, admiring the perfection that was Ludmilla Tourisheva in Montreal 76. Not a bit of silicon in sight. :\

ScottyDoo
12th Dec 2007, 20:09
Hey Cheeze, do you like pink cushions on your brown velour sofa?? I take it you think Maid Marion should have her gongs back?

I agree. The only difference between her drugs and the go-fast shoes, Cathy Freeman-style speed-suits or full-length Sluggo swimmers some athletes can afford to buy is that the juice is injectable.

Advantage sought and gained in sport? Oh the outrage...... :{

Cheerio
12th Dec 2007, 20:23
Give her back her gongs? I'm getting confused now, are we talking Kylie or Marion?

And as for Linford Christie, maybe he took stuff that gave him a second over 100m, but give the guy a break, that lunchbox he had to drag around in his running suit must have weighed a good 3 kilos. :uhoh:

ScottyDoo
12th Dec 2007, 20:37
Linford Christie? Who the fock was she???

Funny... seems Kylie was only ever destined to have one gong. Still, mustn't hold that against her.

Now for christ's sake let's all have a whinge about something worthwhile for a change.

Like poor Ludmilla Tourisheva and her filthy old coach. State-sponsored paedo-feelya. Those dirty old men chasing 13yo girlies in tights around the gymnasium.... wouldn't ever happen up in the Northern Territree where we respect the sanctitty of little girls.

tony draper
12th Dec 2007, 20:45
she broke the most important commandment of all,"Thou shalt not be caught"
:rolleyes:

frostbite
12th Dec 2007, 20:56
"we respect the sanctitty of little girls."

Little girls round your way have got.............. oh, never mind.

Cheerio
12th Dec 2007, 20:58
What, she has only got one gong? I'd give her one.:p

Davaar
12th Dec 2007, 21:25
Many here will tell you that as a lawyer I am a thieving, callous, swine. Well of course. I work, though, for people, and one of them was an Olympic athlete, an artist in his sport, a multiple gold medal-winner.

Off he would travel across the world, the ships, the aeroplanes, idol of the crowd, top hotels, the businessmen, the promoters, the headlines, the fame, another gold! Another? Sure! To be expected, wasn't it? he is so good; and sure enough he would win it.

Days later back to his "other" economic reality, bottom of the heap, the slum or near-slum; because he had no gifts, no skills, no assets, and not much by way of brains or judgment save and except his one gift, or curse, his skill at the sport.

He was popular locally, and the pub was an obvious venue. Have another! Have another! Have another! Reflected glory. His drug of choice, after the competition, to be sure, not before it, was alcohol. It is a very short story; a few years, a medal or two or three, and his drug of choice killed him.

I do not condone the taking of performance-enhancing drugs, and there can be few less interested than I in sports of any kind, as participant or spectator. It is good to have so many high-minded people here to make it all clear, to show me where the blame belongs.

Howard Hughes
12th Dec 2007, 21:31
Another drug cheat shamed. Many more to come.
Only if they throw at least ten times the money at this problem than they currently do! As usual the anti-doping authorities are so far behind the athletes, they are somewhere back about 1960! It is only by sheer luck, or an athletes stupidity that they catch anybody at all! What can only be described as spazmodic testing and farcical bans (2 years), for those few who are caught!

If drug free sport is the Nirvana that we seek, let's do something definitive about it, not skirt around the edges catching the odd athlete here and there.

Nothing less than fortnightly testing for athletes will be sufficient! It takes around three to six weeks for most perormance enhancing drugs to be expelled from the body and then they are untraceable (talking strength/power drugs, I have very little knowledge in the area of endurance drugs, but I understand it is no less common).

Money needs to be spent developing more efficient tests that actually test for the banned substances. The current tests generally just search for the additional drugs used to mask the drug use.

Then how far do we go? International level? National level? State level? Regional level? Local sport level? Teenagers? Kids?

I know some on here people have called for a drug free and a drug enhanced Olympics. In bodybuilding (if you call that a sport), they have gone down that exact path! What happens is people who have used drugs, only need to be drug free for two, or three years I think before being allowed to compete in the drug free championship, so you get people who have previously competed drug enhanced, now saying that they are drug free!

So who decides who is drug free? If someone uses performance enhancing drugs to reach a level then stops, are they drug free? I think not!

If someone has an injury and uses drugs for recovery are they drug free? I think not, yet this is quite legal under the current system, you could be on drugs for most of the year to recover and still compete!

It is an all or nothing thing, as it is impossible to definitively say who has used drugs and who hasn't! The only way to provide a 'truly' level playing field is to legalise drugs in sport! It is also safer for the athletes as they can then go to reputable doctors and institutions to receive 'treatment' rather than backyard practitioners.

Somewhere down the line from Jones is an athlete who ran a fair race.
Not in the final, the semi final and probably the quarters there isn't! In fact you probably need to go back to the Mackay Little Athletics to find someone! Even then I reckon I could find you a drug cheat, sad I know, but that is sport!

Sadly it takes more than good genetics, hours of dedication and a good coach, if you are not chemically enhanced, you're not in the race for a medal!

ScottyDoo
12th Dec 2007, 21:58
Another drug cheat shamed. Many more to come.

Yes, yes, well done. :rolleyes: Next let's start on the Tax Cheats.

Then the Marriage Cheats.

Then the worst of all - the Yahtzee Cheats.



Yes Cheeze, I believe she has only one, despite the hype. And not much of a one at that...

BlooMoo
12th Dec 2007, 22:23
Personally, I'd like to see a 'real' Olympics - i.e one where the athletes can take whatever performance enhancing sh!t they want.

If I see a human being run 100m in 8.5s then as far as I'm concerned he or she is the fastest, and I'd be mighty impressed too given the on-foot distance/endurance involved - 100m equals taxi for me.

Just the fact that a human being fed on cabbage or some other combination of chemicals being physically able to do that is the appeal - it is not the same as being impressed by a slow organic cabbage-eater knowing full well you could've been more impressed with a cabbage-eater (c)Monsanto. If you went to Led Zep then you may get my drift.

Who gives a sh!t if the drugs are unhealthy for them? They have the choice - boxers weigh the risk of brain damage vs $$$ no problem, despite the usual pinko p00fters pretending they're 15mins is not actually about their own insignificant image of their own self-importance...

Ahem, Moving on..

Let's have 'fair' sport by all means - why not ban coaching ? Or ban swimming or high diving as athletes who don't have access to 25m pools or 10m boards are surely at a bit of a disadvantage. I don't see a lot of beach volleyball medals going to Switzerland anyone?

Isn't the 'Winter Olympics' unfair? OK Jamaica did a 'Shay, run to 3rd base, Shay!' type cameo but it was actually so embarrassing it's been banned - bit like Eddie the Eagle at the jumps.

What actually is fair?

BM:confused:

Cheerio
12th Dec 2007, 23:37
Didn't the Merlin have a supercharger?
If you want real sport, you need to go down to clubman level.

G-CPTN
12th Dec 2007, 23:48
Personally, I'd like to see a 'real' Olympics - i.e one where the athletes can take whatever performance enhancing sh!t they want.
Oscar Pistorius? http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_01/pistoriusMS0707_468x523.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d17vqoH9Xfs

The SSK
12th Dec 2007, 23:59
You want clean, check out the GB women's quadruple scull (rowing). World Champions in 2005, they were beaten in 2006 by a Russian crew who were subsequently stripped of their gold which was later unceremoniously awarded to the GB girls, who had been robbed of the chance to receive the accolade in front of their home crowd. This pissed them off no end.

They decided to make their point in 2007 and blew the field apart to become World Champions for the third successive year, this time with no questions asked. Team leader Kath Grainger is about as outspoken as you can get when it comes to drug cheats, she and her mates have after all been on the receiving end. Put money on them now for Olympic gold next year, if they do get beaten you can ask some very hard questions about the crew that beats them, particularly if it's Ch*n*s*.

The BBC Sports Personality extravaganza failed to give them a mention so this may have passed you by.

BlooMoo
13th Dec 2007, 00:09
His artificial lower legs, while enabling him to compete, have also generated claims that he has an unfair advantage over other runners. In 2007, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) amended its competition rules to ban the use of "any technical device that incorporates springs, wheels or any other element that provides a user with an advantage over another athlete not using such a device". It claimed that the amendment was not specifically aimed at Pistorius, and is monitoring his track performances using high-definition cameras to determine whether he actually has an advantage.

You see the point? As I said before - what is fair?

Athletics for the disabled? Gobsmacking ignorance again from the luvvies. Bongs for innovation in prosthetic technology? Where does the 'fairness' stop and access to technology (pharmaceutical or mechanical) start? Is he a better athlete or a good marketing product?
BM:confused:

Howard Hughes
13th Dec 2007, 00:16
You want clean, check out the GB women's quadruple scull (rowing). Show me a pick and I'll let you know if they are clean or not!

If they are World Champions, sorry to burst your bubble my good man, but it is highly unlikely!

It sounds like a case of "me thinks thou doth protest too much", much like many of our Aussie athletes!:hmm:
Except, by definition, it wouldn't be a 'real' Olympics
But the Olympics haven't been 'real' for some time, especially not since they let sports in where you are 'judged', but that is a whole other thread!;)

Sport will NEVER be drug free, get used to it, or start watching chess, but even with chess I am sure there are ways to enhance your performance!

BlooMoo
13th Dec 2007, 00:33
Nothing to do with genuine human performance, simply a way of separating those who can afford to pump the most crap into their bodies.


That is the staus-quo. Think about it...

The SSK
13th Dec 2007, 00:42
Know many World and Olympic medallists personally, do you Mr Hughes?

I might just have the advantage over you there.

Blacksheep
13th Dec 2007, 01:04
Performance enhancing drugs? They're old hat. Just wait until the genetic specialists start producing a few national teams.

If they haven't already... :E

Howard Hughes
13th Dec 2007, 01:05
As a matter of fact I have known a few winter Olympians and have competed with them! But that is irrelevant to the conversation!:rolleyes:

I have never competed on the International stage but I have competed at a National level in one sport and on a State level in another! I have been involved in sport all my life, I have been involved as a full-time (amateur) competitor and worked as a trainer/coach!

I am close enough to know how widespread drugs are in sport! I have seeen it close up and can pick a drug cheat just by looking at them. Of course I couldn't prove it in a court of law, but that certainly does not mean they are not cheats! They are everywhere, do you realise how many drugs are on the banned list? Anyone who has taken anything stronger than a paracetomol or aspirin will find those drugs on the banned substances list!

How many on here have ever been subject to a drug test in sport?
Let's not have a pissing competition, let's just debate the reasons both for and against on their merits!:ok:

As for the pissing, let's save it for the mandatory drug test at the end of the thread!;)

PS: Just read Blacksheeps post and he has hit the nail right on the head, like HGH before it, that type of technology will not be able to be traced until years after it has become rampant in sport!

The SSK
13th Dec 2007, 01:37
I'm familiar with the list of banned substances, because it's required reading at my club. I've applied for Theraputic Use Exemption for beta blockers and cortisone which I take for my dodgy eyes, chances of me being tested are almost nil although I do occasionally take part in competitions which are subject to the jurisdiction of the international ruling body. As for pissing contests, nah, I would lose.

As for rowing, I'm *as* certain that it's 95% clean as you are certain that your sports are dirty. Where it has been demonstrated - Russia, Romania, China and way back East Germany, it has been officially sanctioned at national level and the aim has been national and not individual glory. But then nobody (Steve Redgrave excepted) ever got rich winning medals for rowing.

Blacksheep
13th Dec 2007, 01:40
There could be a major upset at Bisley if they ever get round to testing for vallium... :oh:

Howard Hughes
13th Dec 2007, 01:56
I've applied for Theraputic Use Exemption for beta blockers and cortisone which I take for my dodgy eyes,
Should this exemption be granted, it would be impossible to prove that you are 'not' a drug cheat! :eek:

It is this muddying of the waters that I am on about, it is impossible for all competitors to be certified 'clean' in a competition, so it would make more sense that the competition be truly open! I am not pro drugs per se, but unfortuantely with present technologies, the drug cheats are leading the field and the testors lagging decades behind!

With regard to your quote about rowing being 95% clean, I am sorry but this is just not the case. At best you could hope that rowing is 95% clean of 'drugs for which there is a test', unfortunately it is the ones that are not tested that are the problems!

Mr Draper summed it up when he said...
she broke the most important commandment of all, "Thou shalt not be caught"
Or to be more exact, "she took drugs for which there is a test", like I said earlier, many drugs are undetectable three to six weeks after use, so the only chance of catching people is either during a 'cycle' or in the fortnight after, you might as well not even bother testing at the events, unless of course you wanna catch those who have had too much coffee!

NB: Please do not be offended by my first line, it is certainly not meant as a personal attack and I am not calling you a drug cheat, just pointing out how easy it is to cross the line into ambiguos territory!

Cheers and happy rowing, HH.:ok:

PS: I would loved to have been a rower, but sadly I got the short end of the family gene pool.;)

The SSK
13th Dec 2007, 02:15
Sorry Mr Hughes, your logic is beyond me. What you are saying is that because you cannot *prove* that athlete A is clean, therefore by definition they must be dirty.

I was taught how to jump the start by a World silver medallist and 4th-place Olympian (Russians and East Germans on the podium ahead of him). He knew all he needed to about gamesmanship (did that make him a cheat?) but drugs - never, no way.

Howard Hughes
13th Dec 2007, 02:24
No, I am saying that you can't prove that Athlete A is not a drug cheat! You can't catch all the cheats, nor can you prove that competitors are 'clean' with any certainty!

I am saying the current testing procedures are inadequate and they will never be on a par with the drugs available. So it is impossible to have a 'drug free' event, which means the only way to have an 'even' event is to legalise drug use.

Track Coastal
13th Dec 2007, 02:30
I have seeen it close up and can pick a drug cheat just by looking at them.

What about these ones Mr Hughes, just naturally big boned?:}


http://bp3.blogger.com/_PlJTNgrwPpY/RgIr4wCYoRI/AAAAAAAAAWg/kAu2RjJ0uaA/s400/IMG_1680.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/oaktreemail/2004photos/04simmonsclassic/04JSPHCLtWt_Overalljennifer_moberg3.jpg

Howard Hughes
13th Dec 2007, 02:33
Say no more...:eek:

To their credit, the IFBB openly acknowledge the role of drugs in their sport.

But of course one doesn't have to look like that to be a drug cheat!:hmm:

Rule3
13th Dec 2007, 06:51
Why are her records still recognised. Even blind Freddy could see she was pumped full of juice, the juice that eventually lead to her death. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Davaar
13th Dec 2007, 21:17
QUOTE:
I don't suppose she will give a shit that she made a mockery of sport and what it supposedly stands for, her tears are only for herself, but at least the record books will no longer be stained by her name.
UNQUOTE

Okay. Sure, this is thread drift. This is not about athletics, but about baseball.

Just chanced on an interview clip from the US Baseball Commissioner. He says that for the past ten years at least, everyone in major league baseball, Commissioners, leagues, clubs, coaches, physicians, players, has been into or known of, and has connived at abuse of steroids in the sport.

What should “we” do? ask the journalist commentators. Don’t know.

Impossible to start legal action against so many. Where to begin?

Well, Yes! We know these drugs can and do kill you, some of you anyway, but not immediately. Immediately you do get, or have a chance to get, the big contract, the fame, the millions. Besides, they will not kill you, not the Commissioners, leagues, clubs, coaches, or physicians, because you do not need them for the job; and the people who actually do take them are just the “players”. What other jobs are that lot fit for anyway?

Further thread drift. In Canada one way to the big dollar is hockey. You could not pay me to watch it, but many do. Good luck to them.

My daughter being of dating age, I am in the zone to meet young guys, and usually they have been nice young guys, not that I do not suspect their motives. Anyway we get along. Some of them played hockey in high school and some were quite good, they tell me. One or two had entertained "hopes".

Canada is a big country, so “away” games are often quite far away, a long trip on the bus. These lads tell me that routinely the coach would issue uppers and downers, drugs, on the trips as need arose.

The journalists do not know what to do. I do not know what to do, save to keep me and mine well clear of sports if I can unless I know they are clean (my daughter has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, bronze medallion in lifesaving, captain of boats at school, etc.,etc.), but that is only for me.

Let’s think. What would the sanctimonious do? I know! Pick on a wee lassie who won five gold medals. That will keep the record books unstained.