House Of Lords call for extra legroom etc

[luvly jubbly]

The minimum leg room for passengers on planes should be increased by "at least two inches", a report by a House of Lords committee has said.
The Government was "wrong" to charge premium economy passengers the same airport Air Passenger Duty (APD) departure tax as those in first-class seats for long-haul flights, added the report from the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee.
There should also be further research into possible links between contaminated-air incidents on planes and long-term ill-health, the committee said.
The committee members also said they were "very concerned" to hear from unions that fatigue in pilots could be putting passengers' lives at risk.
The peers said the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) should commission a long-term study into the effects of fatigue on air crew.
The report called on the CAA "to implement their own research" and increase the regulatory minimum distance between seats on commercial aircraft from 26in "to at least 28.2in".
The committee added: "While most UK airlines currently operate with a 30in or above seat pitch, the committee feels this should be guaranteed by the CAA.
"The fact that many airlines already provide this suggests a regulatory requirement would not place onerous demands on the industry."
In terms of leg room, premium economy is one up from economy class and not as roomy, or expensive, as business or first class.
The committee said the Government was wrong to tax premium economy services on long-haul flights at the same £80 rate as first class travel rather than at the standard rate of £40.
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Full report here:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199900/ldselect/ldsctech/121/12101.htm
LJ

[silverelise]

The minimum distance between seats is currently 26" (66cm), which translates into a pitch of about 29", depending on the type of seat.

But the CAA said it did not hold responsibility for this, and that any changes to minimum distance had to be made at a pan-European level by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7140002.stm

[sitigeltfel]

I can just imagine the outcry when it is pointed out that this will entail an increase in fares :ugh:

[perkin]

If it meant removing 1 or 2 rows in a typical 737 (6-12 seats) I'd happily pay the extra if it was distributed over the remaining 120 odd seats (depending on aircraft type of course) if it resulted in a bit more comfort! It would surely only result in an increase in ticket price of a few GBP?

[PAXboy]

It would please the airlines to be able to say, "Our passenger satisfaction survey shows that 99.99% of our economy customers are 'MORE THAN' satisfied with the leg room. We tried to keep prices down but, you know, the govt forced our hand."

Actually, the chances of ANY of this being enforced in law are ZERO. Which is a pity because the committee appear to have found some real information but they can only make the report. Nothing will happen, so everyone can go back to their seats and wait for the drinks trolley. :hmm:

On a serious note, it is VERY good that the issue of pilot fatigue has been officially raised.

[christep]

American Airlines tried it ("More Room Throughout Coach") but unfortunately the market showed that in fact most people weren't prepared to pay even a few dollars for an extra couple of inches and the experiment was dropped. Such are the rules of the marketplace.

[Ace Rimmer]

Trouble was when AA did it they wern't just a few bucks more than the competition, they were a few hundred more on the average LH ticket. ( I know I woulda bought if it had been say 50 or even 100 more). That killed it as much as the downturn.

[Avman]

28.2 inches IS NOT ENOUGH! 30 inches should be the absolute legislated industry minimum.

[Flapping_Madly]

I'm only SLF so I know very little about aircraft and aviation but

Hang on this is about seats and fares so who has more right to comment than SLF?

I have often thought that in the high tech world of aircraft the seats have not progressed very far. They seem very low tech to me and have to be endured not enjoyed.

It seems to me the seats take up too much of their own space. What happened to the seats Richard and Dick designed on that TV programme?
They were slim line and somehow reclined in their own space instead of nicking space off the poor sod behind. Bought up by a seat maker no doubt and buried.

I was on an A319 the other day with non-reclining seats and am still wondering if it is a good idea or not. For short hops probably.

At present there seems no alternative to normal market forces testing premium charges for more space. The punters will decide. So long as the airlines keep trying new ideas out on us.

[perkin]

The new design of seats that KLM is currently fitting to its 737 fleet (not sure which manufacturer) have a much slimmer back (half the thickness or possibly less than older designs), and in addition to an extra 2 or 3 inches of effective legroom at the same pitch, are most comfortable too!

[Flapping_Madly]

Interesting. Could they be Richard and Dick seats do you think?

Any chance others will use them as well ? God I do hope so !!

Seat comfort is the very worst thing about flying in a long list of things that do not make it a life enhancing experience.

I shall strain my Googling skills to the limit in search of more info.

Thanks.

[10secondsurvey]

It's good when airlines get slimmer seats, but sadly, they usually then push the rows closer, so the 'benefit' is only seen by the beancounters. Over recent years, legroom on KLM has decreased by a large margin for economy pax, and is now pretty uncomfortable.

Interesting to note, that one of the concerns of this committee, was the inability of pax to adopt the brace position in an emergency. Something I've been banging on about previously. To me it's blindingly obvious, and I can't believe airlines get away with it.

[oldpax]

i would gladly pay extra for more legroom,at six foot two I pity anyone in front of me who tries to put thier seat back as all they get are my knees in thier back!

[manintheback]

Airlines are all very aware of the Richard and Dick seats - it wasnt a new idea, I think car baby seats were once used as a model for reclining within their own axis.
The main issue is simple economics - make economy too attractive and people up front will move back. My company has already extended their definition of medium range as under 8 hours and therefore into premium economy you go.

[WHBM]

I do tire sometimes of those who say "if you give an inch of extra legroom fares will have to double".

Firstly few flights operate at the sort of high load factors where the lesser number of seats (and it isn't that many that would be stripped out) would make any difference to flight revenue. It seems unnecessary to be squashed in between empty seats.

And major airlines will tell you that the mainstream revenue is made on the premium classes anyway, with the economy passengers making no financial contribution. Frankly I doubt this (why else provide 75% of your cabin space for the useless patrons) but that is the standard line.

The A320 has a cabin 6" wider than the B737, usually translated into 1" extra width per seat. But I haven't noticed that the extra drag the wider cabin entails leads to fares all being double on A320 operators compared to those with B737s.

I was also, like many transatlantic passengers, surprised that American Airlines took away MRTC, as during its time there were many, many AA passengers who commented on it and gave it as a reason to select AA. There was extensive justification before it was introduced which all seemed to be thrown away. It really did make me think that policy decisions like this are taken in boardroom battles between differing opinions, with the facts being presented through selective "research" afterwards to fit the prevailing view. It was also noticeable that MRTC coincided with a financially good period for AA, and since they reduced the legroom again they have never made anything like the net income.

Given that seat pitch is normally measured between seatbacks it should surely be described as "shoulder room". But real legroom, under the seat ahead, has on a number of long-haul carriers been severely impacted in recent times by the imbecile who decided that the new AVOD video boxes for each seat row can be bolted underneath the seat row, right where the person behind's legs used to go, as if they somehow would not notice. It is usually only one seat per row that suffers like this, but different carriers have adopted different positions for it.

[UniFoxOs]

The Government was "wrong" to charge premium economy passengers the same airport Air Passenger Duty (APD) departure tax as those in first-class seats for long-haul flights, added the report from the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee.

Anybody know if anything is happening about this? Reason being we just paid £99 for an upgrade tp PE and when we received our tickets we found a nice letter advising us that £80 of this was tax!!

UFO