Any idea what this is? [Archive]

Akubra

12th Dec 2007, 12:02

Military amphibian, or maybe a helicopter is what I was thinking.
Also had a look at the 262, just because of the shape of it's belly.

I was hoping I could ask a question like - Is that a tail wheel or nose wheel?.. Oh well... :)

Cubs2jets

12th Dec 2007, 23:12

Must be the Bell P-59?

Cubs2jets

Kitbag

13th Dec 2007, 12:04

Very much doubt its the P59 because: We seem to be looking at the main undercarriage bay of a smallish tail wheel equipped aircraft, the front is to the right of the image. I suspect the white wheel and fairing in the background are attached to something totally different, and from a different time period, also suggesting that what we are looking at is a 'warbird', preserved somewhere. There are two doors visible, left and right, seemingly operated by a lever system probably covering the lower part of the mainwheel. The darkish zinc chromate green interior colour leads one to think it is British in origin, maybe something like, but not, a Hawker Tempest.

So to Mel, 2 questions, have you cropped the picture? Do you know where and when it was taken?

forget

13th Dec 2007, 12:34

Should I be doing something else :bored: I'd say US Navy, probaby Grumman. White wheel behind is almost certainly Navy. And I wouldn't say it's a 'light' aircraft.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/DOORS.jpg

MReyn24050

13th Dec 2007, 12:52

No I havent cropped the photograph. I have no idea where or when it was taken. I agree with your comments and forget's assumptions. The source has a habit of using museum aircraft.
Mel

Kitbag

13th Dec 2007, 13:11

Forget, can't disagree about what you say re white wheel in background, but I don't believe that has anything to do with the subject in the foreground.

forget

13th Dec 2007, 13:15

but I don't believe that has anything to do with the subject in the foreground.

Agreed. But where's there's one Navy wheel there will probably be more :)

evansb

13th Dec 2007, 15:45

It is the Macchi C.200. http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/macchi20200.jpg

forget

13th Dec 2007, 16:30

Don't think so. See http://digilander.libero.it/enniotarantola/TarantolaEnnio/Modellismo/C202RealeTrotta01.jpg

evansb

13th Dec 2007, 16:41

Here is a Macchi C.205
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/mc205-5.jpg

forget

13th Dec 2007, 16:44

The 205. I'd say you've cracked it :ok:

MReyn24050

13th Dec 2007, 18:15

Forget,kitbag and Bri. Back home again here, many thanks for your help. I think it could be the Macch Mc.200 "Saetta" located at the Italian Air Force Museum at Vigna di Valle Airport.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/MacchiMC-200Saetta.jpg
Mel

forget

13th Dec 2007, 19:16

evansb is the one who homed in on it. :ok::ok:

(Or is evansb also Bri.):confused:

MReyn24050

13th Dec 2007, 20:57

forget. Sorry yes evansb is Bri
Mel

Kitbag

14th Dec 2007, 05:25

Well done Bri:D, now for completeness, 'cos it is really bugging me now, what is the wheel in the background of the original pic from. It seems to have a distinctive door and possibly a fairing over the hub. It also seems familiar in some way but I can't place it:confused:

MReyn24050

14th Dec 2007, 08:45

Wow! I originally said it was a Macchi C.200. Can you imagine a mere Colonial boy getting it right? Who would have thought? Actually, I was born in Alberta, to Albertan parents. I said it was a Macchi C.200, and perhaps I am right. My genetic origins are so far east of Colonial you couldn't imagine. Yup, us Canucks can get stuff right now and then.
Happy Hanukkah! Bri.

Well done Bri :D:ok:
After further research I have found another photograph which is from the Macchi Mc.200 "Saetta" located at the US Air Force Museum. Which confirms that it is indeed the Macchi Mc.200.
So, I guess kitbag the wheel in the background belongs to another aircraft in this museum :)
http://www.venturapublications.com/news/publish/Macchi-MC200.shtml
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/16-macchi-c-200-lh-whee.jpg

Akubra

14th Dec 2007, 09:19

Kitbag, for completeness, how about their Piper PA-48? :)
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/acubra/piperpa48.jpg

Kitbag

14th Dec 2007, 09:27

Many thanks Mel and Akubra, would have been hell if you hadn't cleared that on up for me;) Mustang variation, no wonder it looked familiar!

S'land

14th Dec 2007, 20:54

At least he didn't say that it would be easy:rolleyes:.

Looks like something from one of the early 007 films:\.

MReyn24050

14th Dec 2007, 21:46

Thank you WhiskeyNovember. You are quite correct and I admit I did post the last photograph from the ***** as I was at a loss for an answer and also for this one. I put them up with the aim of getting an indication of the possible answer but of the other 95+ correct answers I have used my own knowkledge. I do not see anywhere in the "rules" that one cannot use other means to find the answer in fact it is encouraged.
from that website:-
Q. May I use outside materials to help me arrive at the correct answer?
A. Yes! You are welcome to use whatever outside sources you can find to help you find the right answer, including books, websites, and more. That's really the whole point of this - to help you broaden your knowledge and love of aircraft. Who knows what interesting aircraft, stories, and websites you might run into, even if you don't happen to find the correct answer.

I apologise for not making that clear, if I have offended any prune members and if they so desire I will withdraw.
Mel

MReyn24050

14th Dec 2007, 22:14

P.S. - It would be fun to continue to post the photos....after the answers have been revealed....to discuss how tricky they were. Heck, grab some of your own photos and put on a creative contest of your own! Now THAT could be fun!
As I said above if members of PPrune feel that I have used them I can only apologise it certainly will not happen in the future. As you will note I have withdrawn the latest challenge. I am not sure how familiar you are with PPrune but I think you will find that I do post in fact post many photographs on What Cockpit and What Aerodrome over the last two years and have won many of the challenges presented.

treadigraph

14th Dec 2007, 22:43

Mel, you have nothing to apologise for so far as I am concerned. Part of the distinguished cognoscenti of this valuable forum.

Cheers

Treadders

MReyn24050

14th Dec 2007, 22:51

Thank you for your support Treadders, which I sincerly appreciate. It certainly was not my intention to deceive other members. My failing was as WhiskeyNovember rightly states was not identifying the source of the photograph and that is something I regret most sincerly.
Mel

Akubra

15th Dec 2007, 00:39

No probs here guys. In fact i might have led Mel astray! :)

India Four Two

15th Dec 2007, 05:57

Mel, I agree with the majority of responses - absolutely no problem.

Besides, it gives me an opportunity to follow up with another picture, without being accused of starting a "Which Dunlop?" thread. ;)

I found this when researching Ramsgate Airport - it's the late 30s. What's the aircraft. Can anyone beat Mel or Bri to the answer?

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c309/india42/i42_1-1.jpg

Mr_Grubby

15th Dec 2007, 08:39

Mel.

You have nothing to apologise for in my opinion.

Do carry on posting please.

Clint.

Akubra

15th Dec 2007, 09:16

"without being accused of starting a "Which Dunlop?" thread."
Pssst! Is that ACME written on that tyre? :p

Kitbag

15th Dec 2007, 09:36

Nope, its Palmer (but you knew that already ;)) Looks like early to mid 30's, perhaps a summer camp 'somewhere in England'

India Four Two

15th Dec 2007, 10:11

Well spotted, Kitbag. Of course I meant "Dunlop" in the generic sense :uhoh:

I see I didn't make it clear enough in my post - this was taken at Ramsgate. I would like to know what the aircraft is.

MReyn24050

15th Dec 2007, 10:30

Many thanks Gentlemen for your support which is much appreciated. As for India Four Two's my first thoughts were an aircraft from a certain manufacturer from the West Country i.e. Bristol Bombay but then being sensible the wing is too low and also the Bombay had radial engines. You say that this photograph was taken late 1930s. Was this aircraft one of only three built?

Kitbag

15th Dec 2007, 11:03

I42, touche, serves me right for not reading the text properly!

BTW is that a German Hasselblad camera being used by the shady character in the middle of the group? The cut of his jacket is certainly Germanic;)

Akubra

15th Dec 2007, 11:14

No clues on this one Mel.

What we have is a twin or tri engined, medium sized low wing military (hopefully) monoplane parked in an English airfield and sporting English tyres. And fixed undercarridge too boot.
Anyone confirm what uniform the fellow has on?

MReyn24050

15th Dec 2007, 11:52

OK I will say that it is a Blackburn C.A.20 Segrave II possibly registration G-ABFR.

Kitbag

15th Dec 2007, 12:17

Point of order Mel, I think the only Segrave II made was actually G-ACMI(very nearly a coincidence given Akubra's earlier comment!) The other metal Segraves were G-ABFP & G-ABFR.
I haven't tracked much regarding the Piaggio variants, but FWIW I think you're right. I seem unable to reconcile fixed undercarriage twin non radial engine aircraft with two blade prop (note no prop visible in the pic) with a British military aircraft in the time frame we've been given.

Unless someone knows better?

Akubra

15th Dec 2007, 12:20

Have you got a photo Mel?
All I can find is the Segrave I and its engines sit well below the centerline of the wing.
I have read the II version had a new wing spar, so its very possible the engines sit allot higher.

MReyn24050

15th Dec 2007, 12:31

It certainly is not the Segrave II.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/Blackburn_Segrave.jpg
It could be the Spartan Cruiser.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/spartan20cruiser.jpg

Flap40

15th Dec 2007, 13:58

BTW is that a German Hasselblad camera being used by the shady character in the middle of the group?

I doubt it since Hasselblad is actually Swedish and they did not make their first camera until 1941.

Akubra

15th Dec 2007, 14:21

Possibly Mel. Is there another photo on the net?

The Airspeed A.S.6 Envoy's had these engines fitted:
Wolseley AR.9 radial, , Armstrong Siddeley Lynx IVC radial or Cheetah IX radial, Wright Whirlwind R.760 and Walter Castor II radials.

Also some had Scorpio I and Aries III engines. Were these also radials?
Cant find any information on those two so I'm doing some wild guessing that if they were inverted fours then the standard retracts would have been impossible to fit. (plus the fact that the craft would probably be way under powered)

Any confirmation on that uniform yet?

MReyn24050

15th Dec 2007, 14:29

A few more Cruiser photographs here.
http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/airfields/net.html

According to H.A.Taylor in his book Airspeed Aircraft since 1931 by Putnam the Wolsley Aries III was a nine cylinder radial engine and the Scorpio II was also a radial engine.

evansb

15th Dec 2007, 14:50

On the Ramsgate photo, notice the gravel guard (fender) attached to the undercarriage strut. It is visible in the Spartan Cruiser II photo below.
Also on the Ramsgate photo, a propeller blade is visible between the nacelle and the exhaust manifold. The chaps uniform looks like 1930s RAF
issue, but I am no expert. The man with the camera could be holding a Leica, but it looks more like an American built Argus A 35, which was produced in the late 1930s, but again, I am no expert.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/convair640/ScottishSpartanRenfrew.jpg

sabredog

15th Dec 2007, 16:15

Short Scion ?

Akubra

15th Dec 2007, 21:52

Thanks for the link. After visiting http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/iowweb/sim.html
I saw the Spartan Cruiser Mk2 YI-AAA which clearly shows the intake tubes bending forward as in the Ramsgate photo.
I also see that the RAF had one, but the site has no information on it.

I'm backing Mels and evansb choice and voting for the Spartan M2 on this.

India Four Two

16th Dec 2007, 02:18

I think we've got it. In the same series of great photographs at http://www.aviationarchives.info/search.asp?TextSearch=X2RT, one of the pictures shows a Spartan Cruiser (G-ACGM?). I hadn't realized that the Cruiser was such a large aircraft.

Akubra, I noticed that the uniform shows up much darker than you would expect for an RAF uniform and the shirt is white, so I assumed it was probably a civilian uniform, patterned on the RAF one.

MReyn24050

16th Dec 2007, 17:46

Here is another photograph of a Spartan Cruiser
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/sabamel/Aircraft/SpartanCruiser.jpg
Whilst this aircraft, in particular, has fairings around the main wheels I think you will agree other points tend to confirm the aircraft in question was a Spartan Cruiser such as the "brackets" inboard of the engine close to the leading edge of the wing also the forward facing air intake and the exhaust pipe running down the centre line of the engine.
Mel

India Four Two

16th Dec 2007, 18:07

Mel,

That does clinch it. I had noticed the "brackets" on the Ramsgate photo and was trying to find another view of the wing. I wonder what they were for? They look very "draggy" to me.

FlightlessParrot

17th Dec 2007, 07:10

@evansb

>The man with the camera could be holding a Leica, but it looks more like an >American built Argus A 35, which was produced in the late 1930s, but >again, I am no expert.

Not either, I think. Looks too large, and seems to have a rectangular lens board. Used at eye-level, so unlikely to be one of the early SLRs (? Korelle). As a SWAG, perhaps Plaubel Makina, which was about the right size (6 x 9 cm), and came with an f/2.9 lens IIRC, which would be about the right size for that large circular object. Had wire-frame finder, which would disappear in this pic.

Michael

PPRuNe Pop

17th Dec 2007, 08:21

I am slightly alarmed at the sudden turn of events when Whiskey November put his views on "stealing" pics from the site he 'represents' and then berates one of our best contributors.

If we take the view that every picture of every cockpit/flight deck, airport/aerodrome, aircraft and hangars etc., that appear on this forum is 'stolen' then we have a real problem don't we. But do we? The short answer is NO we don't.

We respect copyright and we respect the guys who take some brilliant pictures that appear on PPRuNe and we are grateful. Mel has contributed to this particular forum with a genuine interest in it's title and I have seen nothing that I would have to moderate out.

Having said that, WN, should know that there are no particular rules we follow on this forum only those PPRuNe have and we mods use. I am, therefore, closing this thread and remove some references to 'that' so that Mel can freely start another.

Mel, feel free to do as I suggest. You have nothing to apologise for and we look forward to your future efforts to entertain us.

PPP