Forstaff EBA Discussions

[whatdouknow]

So it appears that the Avalon thread disappeared, not sure who was at fault but someone got upset at something!

So when is the next meeting considering talks were 'suspended'?

What's the latest, whatdouknow?

[U.K. SUBS.]

The 'suspension':yuk::yuk::yuk:. According to one ALAEA rep seemed to be 'staged' but moving forward there will be a meeting probably next week, once the blood pressure levels have returned to normal. It goes without saying that the workforce at AVV will be watching events at mainline and see the outcomes from the protected action, in persuit of a 5% (deserved) payrise. We wish you guys all the success in the world.:D.

[Torqueman]

It was removed.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=304019

This is the thread where I asked the very same question.

It seemed to have degenerated.

Plug pulled and it slowly slipped away. :{

[LME-400]

Must be a limitation of the forum software that prohibits the deletion of a sigular post as opposed to a whole thread.

[whatdouknow]

Pretty disappointing, was becoming a nice thread that a few seemed to know what was going on, that Phat Tony thought it was the ALAEA fault but appeared he was only alone in that sentiment.

Shame really and thanks Torqueman that thread was locked, hopefully no one will lock this one.

So meeting next week, I wonder if the AWU turn up to spread their Christmas cheer, the smiling faces would be more like trick and treat... perhaps? :eek::eek::rolleyes:

[whatdouknow]

Latest rumour, it appears that the Company allowed AWU paid meetings yesterday and when a couple of ALAEA members wanted to attend they were not allowed. :hmm:

From what I hear the meeting wasn't really about the EBA but more about the fact that the AWU EBA positon was stated in a document that has leaked, apparently it doesn't help that the AWU appears to have agreed with the company. :eek:

A few people are wondering why it happened and a few are concerned that it wasn't opened to everyone, doesn't the EBA effected all the workers there? :=

What is going on down there?

[Torqueman]

I get the impression things are about to hot up down there....

Good on ya lads, keep up the good work. :ok:

[AEROMEDIC]

I saw a copy of two documents. The first was a combination of wish lists from both sides and Forstaff's position on the ALAEA's list. Forstaff put out a notice apparently upset at what they called the document's misrepresentation of their positon and betrayal of confidentiality. The second appeared revised but shows the AWU's position as well.
This seems not to have been circulated to the troops for their information and Forstaff are keen not to let "ANY cat out of the bag".
What a way for them to be negotiating an EBA. The employees HAVE to know what their employer is wanting........ SURELY !! :sad:

[Torqueman]

I'd be trying to support your qf brothers with their action and refuse to do leading hand duties. With the current company al out shafting that is taking place it seems that no holds are barred. :ooh:

[Short_Circuit]

Correct, it is "game on".
Time to fight out out of the hole we are in!
It's now, or never!
:ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

[whatdouknow]

Sounds like the war cry needs to be a bit louder.

I think the latest announcement about Malaysia may be a ploy to destabilise the talks, by those who think they are the leaders. I think a backfire may be the only result, are people not tired of listening to threats.

Even if it is true, does anyone really care and does it mean that everyone will sell their soul.

[rudderless1]

Where is Malaysia going to get these trained people from. Come on Geoff try another one!:ok:

[whatdouknow]

You think it all a hoax...

So i can't go and moonlight!!? ;)

[Clipped]

The very action of Dicko to sign the MOU, especially at a critical time in the EBA negotiation, highlights his contempt of LAMEs.

So much about needing flexibilities in HM to keep work onshore and in the same breath anouncing an overseas joint venture.

Well if that doesn't wake you up to what this breed of management are capable of, I don't know what would.

As I said before, Dicko wants a fight ... because he is betting on LAMEs to break ranks. In the past we have always worked around problems and made sure the operation kept ticking along. He will play on that trait and again we will become our own worst enemies.

[whatdouknow]

This sounds very much like another post I read, still true though even if it is twice.

[Torqueman]

I think the ALAEA need to consolidate the engineers working for qantas. Regardless of whether they are forstaff or QF LAME's.

I know some people out there might not like the idea of that, but I think it's time to put the joint shoulder to the wheel and protect this industry from the sharks we now refer to as QF Management.

:ok:

[whatdouknow]

What do you mean consolidate?

[AEROMEDIC]

I'm sure that support will be forthcoming tacitly anyway, as it might force Qantas's hand with respect to the role of senior LAMES whether QF or Forstaff :ok:

[U.K. SUBS.]

Read the following answers to questions put to J.Vincent and M. Brown. Make your own mind up about the future of heavy maint at Avalon.

What is going to replace the 744 and 743 work?.(Answer) Next year the 743s' will retire and from 2012 the 744RR fleet will have began retiring.

What about A380 maintenance at Avalon?. (Answer) More than likely not.

Will there be overflow from Tullamarine on a constant basis?(Answer) Ambiguous management answer but it involved bidding for A321 work

I think it's time to look for another job but in the meantime use the principle of 'an army of one'.:E

[Going Boeing]

My understanding is that the A380 "D" check (or Airbus HM equivalent) requirement is every eight years and the B787 is every twelve years. This is probably why Vincent & Co are being very coy about the future. The hull numbers are increasing but the Heavy Maintenance work may not be increasing at the same rate.

[U.K. SUBS.]

I accept what you say G.B. Now apply that timeline to a facility that; at the time of SYD heavy closing was almost 1000 in numbers, now it's just over 700 with an attrition rate at about 35 a month. It is very quickly reaching a point where the labout hire company responsible for QF's project will not be in a position to reach its financial target set by its parent i.e. % of billable hours to QF.
I can see JHAS walking straight in and saying 'thank you'.

[whatdouknow]

from what I hear, Avalon is losing people left, right and centre, not sure it is 35 a month but it would be close in October/November.

Perhaps if Forstaff changed their spots and woke up to themselves, nar that aint going to happen. Who is the boss there? Are they visable? Do they have any respect?

As for not reaching billable hours, 1341 will probably never happen if it continues like it is. Rumour has it one hangar is close but the team is new and still optimistic. :rolleyes:

JHAS walking in, well perhaps at least employees will get a pay rise as there appears to be little chance of the greedy Forstaff (QF) delivering any value close to what people are worth.

Line your own pockets, hey Doug & Wally!

[Torqueman]

Well it's crunch time for the industry then isn't it?

People have had enough of the likes of DC, GD, on the QF front and DT, PM, on the forstaff front.

They've been playing them off against each other for years.

It's only now that forstaff are losing the strangle hold on the oppression they have manifested in Avalon, that the employees there are with their backs against the wall and are coming out fighting.

If the groups work together (QF & Forstaff) which appears to be happening. (it's good to see people looking further into the future with a genuine concern for their jobs and the next generation of workers I might add).

Well QF and Forstaff have lost their power we might say. The constant threats of we'll send work here or there, whatever. Anyone who has been overseas knows these other MRO's are full of work already. QF can't just dump it whole fleet of maintenance somewhere.

So what's left in the bag of threats that QF haven't tried. NOTHING. They have used up all their dirty campaign tricks. People are not that short sighted anymore and have a good memory of the last EBA discussions and the threats made back then.

Sorry GD, DC, DT and PM. There is no SARS, Birdflu, Terrorism or depressed travel economy to dangle in front of your employees. You are bursting at the seams with money and making record profits. Time to share the wealth. You have all already lined your own pockets.

Oh but wait, we can do to forstaff and QF in Australia what we did to SYD years ago. People will still remember the phrase we used. What was it again? OVERFLOW WORK.

Except this time we'll say we're doing a deal with a Malaysian MRO. What a great idea.

Good one gents. Their workplace is so snowed under that they too couldn't squeeze in a cessna let alone a 747. They have a shortage of workers just like in Australia. Why do you think they offer huge money for people to go over on short term contracts.

Well at least the folks in QF and Forstaff can now happily and without guilt take their own holidays and go over and make some serious cash in Malaysia. We'll it might be 'moonlighting', as management like to call it, but it is no longer a conflict of interest. They do have a memorandum of understanding for maintenance. Looks like a green light if I ever saw one. Good luck trying to sack a worker for doing that. I don't think the commissioner will agree with you.

But nice try with the MALAYSIAN thing though ! Seriously it just shows how desperate the QF and Forstaff Management have become.

They can't even think up some new scare tactics, just rebadge the old ones.

[whatdouknow]

Bump...

Sounds interesting, green light to moonlight overseas, not sure management would agree but alas if there is an agreement to set up 'overflow' then so be it.

Qantas/Forstaff appear to have another facility and those that wish to cross pollunate may well be legally allowed too.

Rehash the old threats to employees who are sick of hearing the excuses, sounds like disaster to me.

Come on Management get a new story, the old ones don't wash anymore!

All has gone quiet around here, where is the fight in the Avalon people, hello all?

[HARDNUT]

Not knowing what is going on at avalon can someone please give me some details.when does your eba expire? What is happening with the 2 month contracts they were advertising in the australian?Sounds like this malaysian threat is just a pathetic bargaining tool.(like the a330/a380) in our Q maint eba discussions

[AEROMEDIC]

"All has gone quiet around here, where is the fight in the Avalon people, hello all?"

The EBA was apparently extended to 31 Dec 07. As this EBA is close to expiry, it will be interesting to to see what's around the corner for Avalon.
I would expect that the Forstaff LAMEs are watching the Qantas action with great interest because it places them in an unusual position.

[whatdouknow]

Lets hope the Forstaff LAME's don't watch the QF action but they actually assist in it. Don't take higher duties and roll over and have their bellie's scratched. I'm sure some brown noses will!

[Torqueman]

Things seem to have gone quiet on the forstaff EBA front. Any news?

As far as support, well they need to receive some direction from their reps and the ALAEA. The shoe might soon be on the other foot. I hope the support will be reciprocated by their QF brothers down there. Unlike in the past.......................

[U.K. SUBS.]

Any action in support of the QF Lames could result in the fining of the person and possibly the assoc. Remember it is Qantas Lames and not Forstaff Lames who have a legal right for protected industrial action. Through the years Qantas have been let off the hook by Forstaff Lames willing to step into the acting role, good for the Lame in that he gets the experience,(and the pityful allowance) but bad for him in real terms in that Qantas could never fill these positions and there are still outstanding problems with CASA in the structure of Avalon.
In the general scheme of things with the PIA, one would expect and hope that there would be support for the guys at Tulla, Syd et all. There is of course the expected push from Forstaff to engage certain Lames to perform 'work' at other ports. This happened during the Perth dispute when a certain ex-federal sec asked avionic Lames with LE to go there and 'help out'. No was the answer from us.........and still is.

[whatdouknow]

^Good to hear there are some with Bottle at Avalon

[Torqueman]

Anyone have any new news on the forstaff front?

All eyes seem to be focussed of the qantas action.

Don't forget the people down there folks.